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Bradley Manning Can Be Both a Criminal and a Hero.

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:12 PM
Original message
Bradley Manning Can Be Both a Criminal and a Hero.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. As of yet, he is only accused of a criminal act.

When it is all said and done, he may or may not be found guilty. Either way he can still be hailed as a hero for taking decisive action, exposing lies and crimes committed by our government at personal risk to himself.

Just because one breaks a law does not mean that person dis not do what was morally right.

Thank you Mr. Manning!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. downloading tens of thousands with hope of criminal or embarassing data is not hero
it is not only criminal, but lacking in character and not something to hold up as desirable.

if he had something specifically he found that was criminal (not embarassing) and felt he had to take public to get address, tht is hero

that is not what he did
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. He is a f---g traitor in my opinion and deserves whatever he
gets.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. that is how i see it. i see nothing admirable. nt
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 05:54 PM by seabeyond
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. He knew enough to know there would be crimes uncovered,
and delivered to a organization that could and has carefully vetted the information.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. i could go into any computer, download tons and find something to embarass a company, govt, person
again

doesnt make him a hero, but a loser

in my opinion
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. How blithely you overlook the war crimes that have been revealed.
Today's GITMO information is horrific and I firmly believe (like Manning) that the U.S. population both deserves and has the right to know of these atrocities perpetrated in our name.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. i guess we interpret the info differently. learning putin is an alpha dog really
has absolutely no relevance at all.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Propagandizing that the cables only contained insignificant info won't make it true.
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 06:29 PM by Luminous Animal
Ignorance is...


well, just plain ignorance.


Catapulting ignorance has been, historically, a useful tool for authoritarians.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. kinda like insisting and demanding he is a hero is not gonna make him one. nt
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Pretending that nothing of substance has been release is purposely ignoring
or minimizing objective facts revealed in many of the cables.

Whether or not a person believes that Manning is a hero is a subjective opinion.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. he has downloaded tens of thousands. a couple pieces that MIGHT be worth anything
most of it is already known. and the rest is pure gossip
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. From February 2011: Cablegate to Date: 32 Major Revelations (and Counting)
http://www.thenation.com/blog/158270/cablegate-date-32-...

Note. these are major revelations that often revealed in a series of cables. There are numerous smaller ones. This list does not include, of course, the most recent horrific GITMO cables.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Over Half of 2011's New York Times Issues Rely on WikiLeaks
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Are you still peddling this line?
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 07:00 PM by JackRiddler
Months have passed, and apparently you still claim to have learned from the Wikileaks revelations only that "Putin is an alpha dog." (The revelation of which could hardly be said to impinge upon national security, and therefore should not bother you, but that's another story.)

Well, the only conceivable excuse for your having learned only that would be that you have NOT READ the material and DO NOT CARE.

It's very convenient for your Dead-On-Arrival argument. Except that it convinces no one.

The Collateral Murder video shows a war crime, plain and simple.

Those are the people who should be in prison, not Bradley Manning for exposing them. (Assuming he was the one who leaked the material, as appears to be the case.)

The Iraq and Afghanistan war logs confirm tens of thousands of deaths that had not been reported before, caused by the US invasions of those countries.

The State Department cables reveal a government that serves primarily as the lobby for private business interests, and engages in pressure on foreign governments to cover up American crimes, and presumes to act as the imperial boss of the world.

Those who are interested can follow the first link in my sig line for a thread compiling several dozen major revelations that came through the publication of just one percent of the State Department cables. (The thread is a couple of months old now but still full of news stories that real news media would be pursuing.)

FOLLOW THAT LINK, even if Seabeyond still doesn't want to.

Ask yourselves: Why, in a democracy, should this information be kept secret from you? It has nothing to do with national security.

The only problem I see with Bradley Manning is that there are not hundreds of him. What is wrong with our people, that we all stand by and watch these crimes go on?
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. And what is wrong with our people that we condemn not the crimes but those
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 06:59 PM by Luminous Animal
that bring those crimes to light?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Indeed. Except you mean condemn, not commend. But I understand and agree.
Unfortunately, there are also those who commend the real crimes.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Ack! Stupid dyslexia! (Thank you.)
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Embarrassment is different than criminal acts.
He knew there were criminal acts, he worked to expose them responsibly.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. i really see this issue differently than you
i disagree with any sort of responsible in the whole scenario
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. He's no hero. He would also be high on the list of people no one should ever want to be in a foxhole
with. That would be a dangerous position.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. He's absolutely a hero. Crimes have been exposed thanks to him.
High crimes, dishonesty and lies even. I would not have a problem being in a foxhole with him.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. He's a traitor.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Not in the least.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Well...
I really don't want to be in a foxhole with anyone, I expect it would be a wicked dangerous place regardless of my companion.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
43. I completely agree. nt
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. i absolutely would nto trust him, with not only my back, but anything else
good point
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. Why would anyone want to be in a foxhole with anyone?
My memory of foxholes in any company less than comfortable or heroic.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Indeed
Criminal dockets are chock full of heroes. Any shame that accrues for their incarceration inevitably goes to the governing authority. It is a wonder to me why the Obama administration is so vigorous in defense of its predecessor's war crimes. Would that their advocacy was so fierce in other areas.
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Phoenix63 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Manning took an oath...
To defend and protect the Constitution of the United States.

There is nothing in that oath about protecting corrupt politicians from embarrassing documents and videos.

It seems to me, that my tax dollars are paying for this stuff and if there is no "National Security" issue then I have every right to know that my tax dollars are paying for the wholesale slaughter of innocent people.

As far as I can see from the stuff released by Manning, the classification of these documents have nothing to do with National Security and everything to do with keeping the American people in the dark.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. +1
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Barack Obama took an oath too
ain't done shit to keep his part of the bargain up.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. I really don't see what that has to do with the subject at hand.
It's kind of like saying "yeah but the christians are just as bad!" isn't it?

I'm down with the Manning ain't no hero crowd, regardless of anything BO has done or hasn't done.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. In fact, that oath arguably obligates him to reveal wrongdoing when he finds it.
Defend against enemies foreign and domestic.
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rgbecker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. +2
Killing newsmen from a helicopter is not defending and protecting the constitution of the US.

Informing we the people is.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nope... just criminal...
nt
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I strongly disagree.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Good point...
I forgot to add traitorous, stupid and dishonorable...
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yep. A criminal act is not always an unjust act...
to paraphrase Greenwald. We have a long history of arresting and prosecuting those who act in the name of justice.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Of course he can be. The question is, though, is he?
"Just because one breaks a law does not mean that person dis not do what was morally right."

Just because one breaks a law does not mean that person did not do what was morally right. I am torn on Manning.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yes, as I remember Nelson Mandela spent many years in jail, and he is
only one example. Wasn't Jesus hung on a cross for alleged crimes?
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Please.
Comparing Manning to Mandela and Jesus? That's a stretch.

I'd compare him to Judas, first. A traitor is a traitor, pure and simple.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. How dare Manning betray the pervasive corruption of the political class.
He's definitely a traitor to them. :)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. We built monuments to the "criminals" and "traitors" of 1776. Now we imprison one.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
44. Indeed, there is a fine tradition of disobeying immoral laws.
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