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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 01:36 PM Original message |
Highly respected NYC teacher placed in bottom 7% by Value Added method of scoring. A real shame. |
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ejpoeta (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 01:42 PM Response to Original message |
1. I remember when I took driver's ed when I lived in Arizona. What we did was to |
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jsamuel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 01:53 PM Response to Original message |
2. if i read that correctly, it looks like about 2/3rds of her score is based on her school and her |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 12:55 PM Response to Reply #2 |
47. No |
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jsamuel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 05:12 PM Response to Reply #47 |
94. I see now |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 06:27 PM Response to Reply #94 |
97. I'd have to see the model to answer specifically |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 01:53 PM Response to Original message |
3. So many thoughts when I read this. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 09:18 PM Response to Reply #3 |
11. You are right about the principal. She should have stood up for the teacher. |
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Citizen Worker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:30 PM Response to Reply #11 |
158. Many, if not most, democrats support this garbage and are for charter schools, vouchers and |
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eppur_se_muova (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 02:49 PM Response to Original message |
4. Is there *anything* to support that model besides the *assumption* that it works? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 04:27 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. What they leave out is humanity, individuality, quality and depth of learning.... |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:09 AM Response to Reply #5 |
110. Exactly! What other nuanced profession (e.g. counseling) |
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Turbineguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 04:36 PM Response to Original message |
6. When the goal |
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Jakes Progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 04:36 PM Response to Original message |
7. How many times can we read about what Obama |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 05:05 PM Response to Original message |
8. That formula appears calculated to confuse, discourage questions, and intimidate. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 05:53 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. It does, doesn't it? It makes no sense to me at all. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:09 PM Response to Reply #8 |
52. In all seriousness, what's confusing about it? |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 06:51 PM Response to Reply #52 |
98. I guess, although I think it would look intimidating to many. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 07:49 AM Response to Reply #98 |
112. She's not getting fired |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:18 PM Response to Reply #112 |
170. As I understand it, she doesn't have a job anymore due to the formula. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:39 PM Response to Reply #170 |
172. Maybe I read it wrong; she's predicting the next round of lay-offs will include her |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:48 PM Response to Reply #172 |
173. The TFA kids? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 07:34 PM Response to Reply #173 |
175. I was being snide |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 07:44 AM Response to Reply #175 |
199. Their primary goal now is retention rate, I have a friend who is with TFA. |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 07:04 PM Response to Reply #199 |
201. Very interesting, then, that one of the main tabs on their own website is |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 07:09 PM Response to Reply #199 |
202. Ha! Again the best is in the comments. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 07:42 AM Response to Reply #112 |
198. Oh, DU is a strong believer in "tenure after years of service" regardless. |
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theaocp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 08:05 PM Response to Original message |
10. If you're into college football, |
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bertman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 10:32 PM Response to Original message |
12. The fact that any Democratic administration could push this makes me SICK. REC. nt |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 10:33 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. I have been very angry about it. |
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Overseas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 10:34 PM Response to Original message |
14. Very sad and so dehumanizing. |
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saras (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 10:36 PM Response to Original message |
15. Textbook example of the failure of the 'value added' model |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 11:32 PM Response to Original message |
16. I am not aware of any research that supports the value of this value added crap |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:14 PM Response to Reply #16 |
55. It's pretty basic systems theory |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:14 PM Response to Reply #16 |
56. Actually, "Value Added" is a Lean Six Sigma construct and is |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:31 PM Response to Reply #56 |
67. "widely used in industry to streamline production and services" |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:51 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. Education is a "service", so the value added formula can be apllied to it. Think of |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:52 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. "as an efficiency model for service oriented products." |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:09 PM Response to Reply #73 |
84. Not "baloney", statistical analysis used in industry every day. I guarantee the vehicle |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 04:46 PM Response to Reply #84 |
93. I taught real live children. This is about them, not vehicles. |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 05:04 AM Response to Reply #93 |
107. +1000000000000 nt |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:14 AM Response to Reply #93 |
139. If you don't or won't try to understand LSS, then there's nothng more I can say. |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:22 PM Response to Reply #139 |
171. I understand it fine. |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:48 PM Response to Reply #171 |
182. I agree. I have a great deal of faith in the LSS system, but I have some |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:42 PM Response to Reply #139 |
178. Fine with me. |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:49 PM Response to Reply #178 |
183. I'm sorry to have moved your cheese. I know how upsetting that can be. (nt) |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:56 AM Response to Reply #84 |
120. Children are not cars |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:19 AM Response to Reply #120 |
141. Teaching is a service and can be made more efficient using LSS. What |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:21 AM Response to Reply #120 |
143. No, but they vary measurably across the population of students |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 11:39 PM Response to Original message |
17. It's too late in the eve for me to comment but let me just K&R this back to the top. |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:00 AM Response to Original message |
18. Succinctly: |
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truth2power (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 05:06 AM Response to Original message |
19. Madflo, I tried everything to print that formula to show it |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:29 AM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Right click it, save it, and print it from your computer. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:55 PM Response to Reply #21 |
60. Really? |
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trud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 06:10 AM Response to Original message |
20. you certainly don't want to actually measure things |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 09:18 AM Response to Reply #20 |
25. Do you REALLY want to talk about 'crazy'? |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 09:24 AM Response to Reply #25 |
26. +1 |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:22 PM Response to Reply #25 |
64. What a nuts system. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:24 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. She isn't being punished, she just isn't being rewarded |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:42 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Despicable propaganda from you. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:43 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Well, I'm sure she can transfer to a more difficult school if she wants tenure |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:48 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Tenure is not a carrot for the corporate mentality to dangle in front of labor commandos. |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 02:08 PM Response to Reply #70 |
167. + 1,000,000 |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #69 |
140. Perhaps, |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 11:41 AM Response to Reply #140 |
195. You tell'em! |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:24 AM Response to Reply #65 |
122. Why would you assume her kids are "easy"? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:40 AM Response to Reply #122 |
125. Because high-performing kids are in a lot of ways "easier" |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:28 PM Response to Reply #25 |
66. First people complain that plain testing punishes teachers of poor students |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:29 AM Response to Reply #66 |
132. hmm... |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:39 AM Response to Reply #132 |
135. Of course they are |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:05 AM Response to Reply #135 |
138. FYI |
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Matt Shapiro (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:22 PM Response to Reply #135 |
176. I question two aspects of your support for this method of evaluating teachers |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:37 AM Response to Reply #176 |
190. Two good points |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:15 AM Response to Reply #25 |
121. +1 |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 09:34 AM Response to Reply #20 |
27. So, let's say her class is performing well, which it is |
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Yo_Mama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 10:12 AM Response to Reply #27 |
31. Right |
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progressoid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:02 PM Response to Reply #31 |
48. +1 |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 11:59 AM Response to Reply #27 |
41. Welcome to the private sector |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:25 PM Response to Reply #41 |
57. Well, I guess it's OK, then |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:26 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. Avoiding that is not a precondition to doing a job well |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:03 PM Response to Reply #58 |
100. "she took " |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:45 AM Response to Reply #100 |
115. You don't wind up in a closed-admissions magnet by accident (nt) |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:32 AM Response to Reply #115 |
123. That's no proof that teachers are allowed to choose their students. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:38 AM Response to Reply #123 |
124. No, but you have a lot of say in what school you end up at |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:29 AM Response to Reply #124 |
133. So? Lots of teachers can choose where they work. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:32 AM Response to Reply #133 |
134. You did by which school you were at |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 02:11 PM Response to Reply #133 |
168. Yeah, really. This guy really knows his stuff, right? |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:54 AM Response to Reply #57 |
118. +1 |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:50 PM Response to Reply #41 |
71. "Private sector" is not an acceptable euphemism for the rule of stupid cannibal logic. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:55 PM Response to Reply #71 |
74. *yawn* |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:57 PM Response to Reply #74 |
75. I'm not pretending, I'm pointing to where you're heading anyway. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:02 PM Response to Reply #75 |
78. I was a resource instructor for math and comp sci |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:01 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. With a name like Recursion, I'm going to guess that you |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:11 PM Response to Reply #77 |
85. Statistics are only as good as the model and the data used. |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:15 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. That's true. But in this case, we don't have enough information yet to make an informed decision. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:14 PM Response to Reply #77 |
87. This isn't even a statistical process |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:18 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. I'll disagree slightly and say that I do see a statistical process in play. Agreed, |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:19 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. Presumably the lambda, epsilon, and zeta come from a stastical analysis |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:36 PM Response to Reply #90 |
92. Right, and I have said elsewhere that I'd like to see some of those internals. |
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FLPanhandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 09:52 AM Response to Reply #20 |
30. Teacher effectiveness should be measured |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:03 PM Response to Reply #30 |
80. Agreed. And as I have said elsewhere in this thread, I'd like to see some of the |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #20 |
32. "lifetime Job" what the hell does that mean? |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 10:27 AM Response to Reply #20 |
33. What is it that you think is being measured and in what context? |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:06 PM Response to Reply #33 |
82. And therein lies the rub. There does not appear to be any value add for |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:02 PM Response to Reply #82 |
99. Consequentially, it is a stupid measurement. (nt) |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 12:17 PM Response to Reply #20 |
45. I imagine an objective measure based part and parcel... |
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Angry Dragon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:09 PM Response to Reply #20 |
83. I hope you find yourself soon |
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sulphurdunn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 05:53 PM Response to Reply #20 |
96. Teaching is about measuring things. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:50 AM Response to Reply #96 |
117. Teachers are more than happy to set the course of kids' lives by the assessments they give |
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sulphurdunn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:15 AM Response to Reply #117 |
129. It's simple |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:24 AM Response to Reply #129 |
131. March hare |
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sulphurdunn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:03 PM Response to Reply #131 |
152. Let me try a real word situation for you. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:10 PM Response to Reply #152 |
154. You definitely can't get me to defend No Child Left Standing |
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sulphurdunn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 02:54 PM Response to Reply #154 |
169. Becasue we're all standrardized |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:39 AM Response to Reply #117 |
145. hmm... |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:43 AM Response to Reply #145 |
146. OK, where's the teachers' movement to do away with testing? |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:56 AM Response to Reply #146 |
149. Oh, noes!!!!! |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #149 |
150. *shrug* I think my description of the formula was enlightening to some on this thread |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:10 PM Response to Reply #150 |
153. Well, |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:19 PM Response to Reply #153 |
155. I love Gleick |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:35 PM Response to Reply #155 |
159. Ah, yes... |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:44 PM Response to Reply #159 |
160. That was my population size complaint |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:51 PM Response to Reply #160 |
161. And, |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:41 AM Response to Original message |
22. Another point: |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:09 PM Response to Reply #22 |
63. VAM has been around for 20 years in education |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #63 |
147. OIC... |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:49 AM Response to Reply #147 |
148. I'm not terribly copacetic with either |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #148 |
151. Well, then, |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:23 PM Response to Reply #148 |
156. By the way, |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 12:29 PM Response to Reply #156 |
157. Hoi Polloi |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:42 PM Response to Reply #147 |
179. Your impression is wildly misinformed. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:07 PM Response to Reply #179 |
184. He was talking to me, I think (nt) |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:20 AM Response to Reply #184 |
189. I guess I should put on my glasses when I get to the 'puter, lol. nt |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:53 AM Response to Reply #189 |
193. The danger of large threads (nt) |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:38 PM Response to Reply #63 |
177. I've been "around" in education for 28 years now. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:10 PM Response to Reply #177 |
185. I'd say that too if I were going for a contract |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:19 AM Response to Reply #185 |
188. Dig it up. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:47 AM Response to Reply #188 |
192. Links to the abstracts since I don't have JSTOR on my work computer |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 07:15 AM Response to Reply #192 |
197. Thanks for the links. |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:03 PM Response to Reply #22 |
79. More likely they are just big contributors. |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:10 PM Response to Reply #22 |
101. Bingo - it's a money-maker for somebody |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:44 PM Response to Reply #101 |
181. Yes. nt |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:55 AM Response to Original message |
23. Prenology charts used to be considered science too. |
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roody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 08:17 AM Response to Original message |
24. Somebody is getting rich off this garbage. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 12:14 PM Response to Reply #24 |
44. I could make a whole list of those getting rich. |
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Blue_Tires (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:24 PM Original message |
+1 |
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Blue_Tires (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:24 PM Response to Reply #44 |
91. +1 |
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roody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 08:01 PM Response to Reply #44 |
104. I know you are busy, but that would make a great thread. |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 09:37 AM Response to Original message |
28. That formula is nonsense |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 12:40 PM Response to Reply #28 |
46. It's not that mysterious |
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AngryAmish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:10 PM Response to Reply #28 |
54. In what way is it nonsense? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:02 PM Response to Reply #54 |
61. Yes, teachers ARE penalized for that. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:05 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. Look at the formula; that's the opposite of what happens |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 02:59 PM Response to Reply #28 |
76. Some of the quants who helped the bankers fuck the world were laid off and ended up in Ed. |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:13 PM Response to Reply #76 |
102. Bingo. |
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Zing Zing Zingbah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:34 PM Response to Reply #28 |
187. I agree that using this formula for teacher evaluations is nonsense |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:41 AM Response to Reply #187 |
191. Or |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 09:46 AM Response to Original message |
29. recommend |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 10:50 AM Response to Original message |
34. Why is the assumption that the metric is wrong, rather than people's opinion of her? |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 11:37 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. Please point out the "objective criteria" in the equation they used |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 11:50 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Does "objective" have some new meaning? |
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Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 11:56 AM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Because the opinions of her are based on both intangibles and |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 11:57 AM Response to Reply #38 |
39. But why do you say that? |
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Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:07 PM Response to Reply #39 |
50. You and I are not seeing the same argument then. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:36 PM Response to Reply #50 |
59. Several things. |
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Nevernose (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 08:24 AM Response to Reply #34 |
200. Because we have 20 years worth of data and studies |
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4lbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 10:55 AM Response to Original message |
35. Even though I'm a statistics and numbers guy by nature (math, science, computers), I have a huge |
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Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 11:58 AM Response to Reply #35 |
40. Recursion needs to read your excellent response. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Why? The model looks like bureaucratic nonsense to me |
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Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:08 PM Response to Reply #42 |
51. What better reason do you need besides it doesn't reflect reality? |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:09 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. I guess I just don't see what's so "baffling" about that formula |
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Angry Dragon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:14 PM Response to Reply #35 |
86. +1000 |
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thanks_imjustlurking (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 07:17 PM Response to Reply #35 |
103. Thank you! |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 12:07 PM Response to Original message |
43. Horrendous example of corporate blockhead logic applied to defile a higher category of endeavor. |
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progressoid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 01:04 PM Response to Original message |
49. This just pisses me off. |
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Initech (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 03:05 PM Response to Reply #49 |
81. Me too. It's just more corporate bullshit logic that is used to support what they want. |
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Maraya1969 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-26-11 05:43 PM Response to Original message |
95. This is a joke right? You can't have unable to prove variables and empirical |
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JHB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 03:51 AM Response to Reply #95 |
105. This isn't a "scientific" calclation, it's numerology |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:47 AM Response to Reply #105 |
116. I just don't see what's so mysterious about it |
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JHB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:19 AM Response to Reply #116 |
142. It's not the formula itself that is so mysterious |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 11:33 AM Response to Reply #142 |
144. Well, I don't trust peer and supervisor assessments all that much. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:54 AM Response to Reply #95 |
119. The Y and X variables are from tests and assessments |
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Keith Bee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 04:08 AM Response to Original message |
106. Can't R anymore |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:01 AM Response to Original message |
108. I teach third grade and just finished giving the math test yesterday: Listen up: |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:03 AM Response to Reply #108 |
109. The people on this board who defend the crap the teacher in the OP is putting up with: |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:43 AM Response to Reply #109 |
113. Delete |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:44 AM Response to Reply #109 |
114. OK, here goes |
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xphile (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:53 AM Response to Reply #114 |
126. Get a teacher to make them care? If it were possible to force someone to care |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:59 AM Response to Reply #126 |
127. That was the point of my last paragraph |
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xphile (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:12 AM Response to Reply #127 |
128. The whole premise of this idiotic formula you seem to be so entralled with |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #128 |
130. I never likened children to vehicles. |
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xphile (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:47 AM Response to Reply #130 |
136. My mistake. It was your cohort who likened the children to vehicles. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 10:55 AM Response to Reply #136 |
137. Nobody's "plugging people into a formula" |
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SlimJimmy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 01:51 PM Response to Reply #136 |
166. Wrong. I didn't liken children to vehicles. I said that LSS is system that |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 01:45 PM Response to Reply #126 |
164. I appreciate the passion with which you argue with this ill-informed |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 01:41 PM Response to Reply #114 |
163. "...then they need to find a teacher who can make them care." |
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Reader Rabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 06:54 AM Response to Original message |
111. Measurements that Mislead |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 01:09 PM Response to Original message |
162. The important point that no one in this thread has mentioned: |
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callous taoboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 01:50 PM Response to Reply #162 |
165. + 1, once again Proud. Please read what I posted above |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 07:02 PM Response to Reply #165 |
174. .. |
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chervilant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-29-11 01:15 AM Response to Reply #165 |
196. Thank you |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 08:43 PM Response to Reply #162 |
180. Applause. |
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Zing Zing Zingbah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-27-11 09:12 PM Response to Original message |
186. Who came up with that BS statistical model? n/t |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-28-11 08:57 AM Response to Reply #186 |
194. Motorola, originally. Or I suppose Gauss, really originally |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Fri Apr 26th 2024, 02:35 PM Response to Original message |
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