Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

When will we ever learn? Americans don't believe in History.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:20 PM
Original message
When will we ever learn? Americans don't believe in History.
OK, this should probably be in 2 or 3 posts.
But it all kinda comes together.
Stay with me please.

1. PROHIBITION...DOES...NOT...WORK.
Repeat after me:
PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK.

It didn't work with tea in the colonies in 1773.
It didn't work with 'demon rum' in the 'roaring 20s.
It isn't working with the 'War on Drugs'.

The Volstead Act (Prohibition) mainly served to create a criminal class with as much or more clout in politics as many multinational corporations now. And yes, I equate the two when it comes to deleterious effects on our political and social systems.

The 'War on Drugs' has aided and abetted that criminal class and created brand new ones in some urban black and Hispanic ghettos. I'm not linking to sources, but would just guesstimate that it's cost our country (ME and YOU...Taxpayers) billions of dollars in the salaries of DEA personnel, state and local cops, the cost of incarceration of the 'criminals', cost of the court proceedings, and time (and money) wasted by local, state, and federal governments in passing 'anti-drug' legislation.

The tea?
OK, this wasn't exactly a 'prohibition'. It was just a money grab by the largest multi-national corporation in the WORLD (at that time) who got a HUGE government subsidy (tax break) in order to dictate to American colonists as to how and where they could buy their tea and at what price.
The WalMart of the era.

Tea was the drink of choice in the colonies.
Watch Thom Hartmann's excellent video account about the REAL original Tea party. Quoting from a book by one of the actual participants.
It's an eye opener.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/04/02/video-the-or... /

2. NATION BUILDING?
It rarely, if ever works.
Especially not in the mainly tribal middle-east.

I was talking to a British friend today.
She wondered why we never learn.
"We've been there, done that, and failed miserably."

Read this:
"Ottoman rule over Iraq lasted until World War I when the Ottomans sided with Germany and the Central Powers. In the Mesopotamian campaign against the Central Powers, British forces invaded the country and suffered a major defeat at the hands of the Turkish army during the Siege of Kut (191516). After the war the Ottoman Empire was divided up, and the British Mandate of Mesopotamia was established by League of Nations mandate. (circa 1919)Britain imposed a Hāshimite monarchy on Iraq and defined the territorial limits of Iraq without taking into account the politics of the different ethnic and religious groups in the country, in particular those of the Kurds and the Assyrians to the north. During the British occupation, the Shi'ites and Kurds fought for independence. Iraq also became an oligarchy government at this time.

Although the monarch Faisal I of Iraq was legitimized and proclaimed King by a plebiscite in 1921, nominal independence was only achieved in 1932, when the British Mandate officially ended."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq#20th_centu...

That's basically a 13 year occupation.
And they still didn't 'win' (achieve their goals).

Afghanistan
"The 10-year Soviet occupation resulted in the killings of between 600,000 and two million Afghans, mostly civilians.<94> About 6 million fled as Afghan refugees to Pakistan and Iran, and from there over 38,000 made it to the United States<95> and many more to the European Union. Faced with mounting international pressure and great number of casualties on both sides, the Soviets withdrew in 1989. Their withdrawal from Afghanistan was seen as an ideological victory in America, which had backed some Mujahideen factions through three U.S. presidential administrations to counter Soviet influence in the vicinity of the oil-rich Persian Gulf. The USSR continued to support President Mohammad Najibullah (former head of the Afghan secret service, KHAD) until 1992.<96>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan#Saur_revolutio...

Why is it 'we' (Americans) think we're somehow 'special'.
"Exceptional", to quote many right-wing politicians?
Why do we think we're God's Chosen People who can go in to another geographical area (to call them 'countries' or 'nations' would be a huge misinterpretation of how they work and are governed) and 'presto-changeo' make them into western style democracies?

I'm appalled that our so-called leaders are just that fecking stupid.

End of rant.
:grr:




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. I appreciate the recs, but a kick or so would help spread the word.
Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Here you go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. here's a rec and a kick (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm with you, trof.
I guess our leaders think we're above all that, or something.

Or *they* are.

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Huge K & R
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... again and again... and again....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think that they stopped teaching history in school.
At least, that is how it appears. But then again, I suppose that the people in the middle of all these decisions are not looking at it will 20/20 vision. They are so focussed on their special interests that they do not see that they are repeating history. In their minds, they are doing something new and different than the last ones that failed. Sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. American History was my most boring high school class.
Names and dates, names and dates.
No 'stories'.
Because of this I avoided any history courses the rest of my time in high school and college.
Now I find it fascinating, especially books like "Don't Know Much About History" and "A People's History of America".
The stories of what REALLY happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm with you. However, I had to take History in college.
Couldn't get away from it to graduate. But wow. The things that we learned in college were nothing like the high school classes and the names and dates and only the rich people and rulers. This was the first place I ever heard that these big shots were human and made a lot of mistakes and were assholes. I realized that I loved this. No dates, just timelines, which made more sense.

I went back to college later in life and history had changed even more. So much about the eras we were studying, and included a vast amount of info on how all groups of people were living at the time, not just the rich and powerful. And we learned about how the ordinary people were affected by policies at the time. I just loved it.

I have not read Don't Know Much About History, but have read Zinn a few times in my lifetime. Very interesting, I love that book and refer it every chance I get.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Many thanks. I knew I could count on you guys.
WATCH THE VIDEO!
PLEASE
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Doesn't necessarily matter to them that these policies will fail.
What matters to them is that they and their cronies will in the meantime make out like the bandits they are. Make no mistake, well-connected people are getting richer and richer as a result of these failed policies, even though the country as a whole is suffering irretrievable damage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Bingo. That's what's left out of the analysis.
People are making huge fortunes out of this stuff. So in that sense, they do work for the people behind them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'll give your rant a K&R
Concise.


If you are not FOR this NEW WAR,
Then you are with The Communists AlQaeda The Terrorists Saddam Qaddafi!!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
Wonderful post - and the Thom Hartmann video about the Boston Tea Party was fascinating!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. crime went down during Prohibition.
That fact sorta contradicts your whole theory that it didn't work. Crime went up again in the 1930's once liquor was legalized again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. Who was it said the only thing we learn from history is that people don't learn from history? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. humans don't believe history
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Oct 24th 2014, 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC