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Two bad and two good reasons to burn books.

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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:07 AM
Original message
Two bad and two good reasons to burn books.

1) To prevent other people reading it. This is by far the most common reason for bookburnings, and by far the worst. Anyone trying to gather all the copies of a book and burn them, rather than just one, probably comes under this heading.

2) As a symbolic comment on the content of a book. This is another bad reason, although nowhere near as bad as #1 - the right way to express your disapproval of the content of a book is to read and rebut it; burning it is pointless and tasteless, and smacks uncomfortably of #1. I think this was probably Terry Jones' motivation

3) Because someone is trying to take away your right to do so. This is a good reason to burn a book. It seldom arises, but it looks like there's a risk it may do so in the future with regards to the Koran.

4) Because you are freezing to death. This is a good reason to burn a book.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. I can only agree wth #4
for myself anyway.

I content myself with moving right-wing works to the humor section in book stores. I can;t destroy them, but I can shelf them correctly.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. gee, I usually put them in the fantasy section--they sure as hell aren't funny
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. ok, was going to say never. but #4? ok. nt
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Statistics show that the Bible is the most widely printed/sold book
they also show that it is the most shoplifted book.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Yeah But
It's shoplifted from motel rooms. People think $125.00 is too much for a bed so they have to get their moneys worth! Boy, Do they get their moneys worth!
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Motel room is plain old stealing.
walking out of the bookstore with it is shoplifting.

either way it doesn't say much for the alleged believers.
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Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Once upon a time, the Bibles in motel rooms,
at least some of them that I saw with my eyes, had slips or plates inside inviting you to take the bible home with you if you wished.

I've been told by a librarian friend that fundies often get caught trying to steal library books that they don't agree with.

Makes perfect sense to me. If you're going to be forgiven and go to heaven no matter what you do, why bother to follow rules and obey laws in this life?
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. The important thing: there WILL BE more Koran-burnings
It is important to understand that the Koran-burning genie is out of the bottle, and there will be more Koran burnings, and it will be justified by different people by stating any one or combination of reasons 1-3 above.

That is why this has to be discussed seriously now.

The March Koran-burning stunt by Dufus Jones is not the end of this story, it is more like the beginning.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. it is so bushco mentality. nt
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The far right has decided that its the best way to start the next crusades
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. DU would have to shut down the I/P forum. It's a fucking insult to one side or the other.
And any Duer who wants to call right wing christian fundamentalist, nut jobs or the bible a fairy tale, would have to be banned from DU.

My god, how can people not see this?

Burning a book compelled NO ONE to murder and behead innocents.

The murderers and beheaders did that all by themselves.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. He himself has said his motivation was to "stir the pot"
As can be read here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

#3 is a fallacy. There is as much likelihood of the 1st amendment being amended as there is the 2nd amendment being removed.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Who cares what Jones thinks?
It is irrelevant what Jones may think now, or may have thought at some point in time.

What matters is that his protest against Islam is constitutionally-protected free speech.

As for "stirring the pot", I don't think that free speech should be limited because a crazy person threatens retaliatory violence should they find what is said to be offensive.

I don't think crazy people get to dictate the limits of free speech.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. many people here on DU think it should be amended because it is insulting to others.
And that we must be more sensitive to the ridiculous sensitivities of others.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. And that crazy people should define the limits of free speech
I agree with you. Crazy people who threaten violence should not get to define the free speech limits to be imposed on others.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Ha, all the replies are from "Ignored" and they are chatting amongst themselves. That's funny.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 09:21 AM by Turborama
I expect Jones must be rubbing his hands with glee seeing the solid support his actions have been getting.

Yeah, he's really sending out a great message to the world about American values.

Meanwhile, any of us expats living in Muslim majority countries may have to suffer any future consequences for his bigoted and hate driven actions. In fact, some already have lost their lives because of what he did.

Hello?

If he hadn't done it they'd still be alive.

He knew exactly what the consequences would be. He has admitted it. It was made very clear to him leading up to 9/11 last year, too.

Fuck, if this thing blows up where I live and I end up getting killed and someone reads this afterwards they can look at this as my message from the grave saying I blame him for my death.


BTW, I'll never know what you said/say in response because when I said 'zero tolerance' and 'instantly put on full Ignore, permanently' here I meant it. Oh, and you were put on ignore before I didn't see your replies, not after I did.

On edit: whoever wrote post #17 is really wasting their time. You are on full "Ignore", as I said above.

It means I can't read anything you post in reply to me, you can't send me any messages and I can't see any OPs you start.

Get it yet?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. what support? Supporting someone's right to do something is hardly
the same as supporting that person or their actions.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Hah! This poster is both amusing and pathetic
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:17 AM by Bragi
This poster threatened yesterday to put on ignore anyone who disagree with him, presumably because anyone who blames the murderous mobs in Afghanistan for killing people rather than blaming Jones is a hopeless, racist pig.

Now this same poster shows up today to attack the people he no longer reads!

I find that to be equal parts amusing and pathetic.

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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Because someone is bullying and threatening me with violence over a right that I have.
I'm not one to start shit with people, but I also
don't tolerate violent murderous bullies.
So, I'm tempted to start a weekly cookout/koran
burning party. If you want my respect you have to
earn it and killing 10 random strangers because
you didn't get your way isn't it.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I wonder what the reaction would be if books that simply had
covers printed with the words Holy Koran were burned?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. Reason 4: A good reason...
Many years ago, I bought about 4000 books from an antique store that was going out of business and was auctioning off everything. What I really wanted was the set of bookshelves the books were on in the store. Made of 16"-wide clear redwood boards without any nails in them, since they were resting on decorative concrete blocks, they were perfect for a remodeling project I had in mind. But, they weren't for sale without the books.

I was the only bidder at the auction for that lot, which I got for $50. It took me all day to load and haul all that stuff to my house.

I spent two weeks sorting through the books. I found three $20 bills inside the books. Then I had a garage sale, which was very well attended. About 500 of the books sold at the garage sale. At a buck apiece, I did OK. A Mormon charity that was sending books to Africa took away another 1000 of them that were neatly boxed for nothing. The rest? Well, they were unsalable and essentially worthless.

I used wood to heat my home. So, I used the rest of the books as firewood. Now, books burn poorly, I discovered, so they had to be mixed with regular firewood, but they did contribute to heating my house that winter.

So, reason 4 actually does work, after a fashion, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you have 2500 unmarketable books to get rid of.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. One other good reason to burn a book...
I love books, but sometimes I would collect far too many of them to fit into whatever space I had.

I tried giving them away. Very few people are really into the same sort of stuff I read, so that was hard. Libraries are particular too.

There was no Goodwill or anything nearby where I could drop them off.

I love them so much I can't just let them sit and rot...or, worse...throw them in the compost pile.

My only other choice is to give them a dignified "funeral" in the burn barrel.


Not a big problem now, however, since I have a Kindle with lots of storage space for all my books.

:)

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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. you forgot #5--you ran out of toilet paper (although magazines or newspaper are probably better)
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. Reason #5: Regnery Press overstock!
Great for fireplace owners.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. I only agree with (4)
Murdering people for burning a book - let alone murdering people because they come from the same country as someone who burned a book - let alone murdering people, who *don't* even come from the same country, for being foreigners like someone who burned a book - is certainly much worse than burning the book.

Nevertheless, burning a book (except in cases like (4)) is a nasty and idiotic thing to do. And doing something *just* to prove that you have a right to do it is passive-aggressive behaviour at best - and in some sense, doing things that you would normally regard as wrong just to show terrorists that you can do so, *is* letting them win to some degree. Much better just to go ahead and do what you'd do anyway, and neither change your behaviour to appease terrorists or to spite them. They should not have control of our lives either way. That may be an impossible demand of those actually in the main firing line; but we - and Terry Jones - are fortunate enough to carry on with our lives without letting terrorists control us, directly or indirectly.

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Spike89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. Love books, but they are just objects
I agree that #1 is the worst, because it really isn't about burning books as much as stopping ideas from spreading. Because I put ideas ahead of the physical shell, I don't think #2 is good or bad--in some instances, burning a book could be an effective manner of protesting, in other words, the burning of a book may be a way of expressing an idea. #3 is really #2 turned on its head, i.e., it acknowledges that there are possible reasons for burning a book as a symbolic protest. #4 is obvious :)
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
27. There is something ironically paradox about burning books to make a statement contra censorship.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 02:15 PM by howard112211
I have yet to see the book-burning that doesn't have deeply authoritarian, nazi-esque, anti-freedom, feel to it.
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