WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY ATTACKS ITS TEACHERS?

[proud2BlibKansan]

What kind of society turns against its own school teachers? They are not the bankers or hedge funders. They did not cause the economy to crash.

These caring and dedicated professionals earn modest salaries and benefits, and most work hard. Let's remember, they are tasked with the crucial responsibility of shaping the nation's next generation of citizens and workers and parents. They "touch the future."

Suddenly, the richest men in the world---Gates, Koch brothers, etc.---tell us that breaking teachers unions is urgent! The best way to help students is to fire teachers! (Never mind that struggling schools already have high teacher turnover, or that poverty is at the root of many students' struggles).

Why? Denigrating and demoralizing our teachers seems a weird priority.

<skip>

Finally, a new report looking at education systems around the world found that, to improve its schools, the U.S. should raise the status of the teaching profession, not lower it.

more . . . http://www.educationjustice.org/newsletters/nlej_iss26_art1_detail_WhatKindOfSociety.htm

I went to hear Chris Hedges speak tonight and he asked this same question. He said the attack on teachers is "shameful" and non productive.

[sarcasmo]

1. A right wing society that wants everything privatized and people working for a dollar an hour.

[indepat]

67. Hear! Hear!

:applause:

[RagAss]

2. A society that is circling the bowl !

[stuntcat]

58. A society that is circling the bowl !!!!!

mecha dittttttoss

[cliffordu]

3. The Khmer Rouge did it

and we see how well that worked out.

Stack skulls here:

[SOS]

88. They want to turn us into China

It's the ruling class dream come true.
A small group of dictatorial super-rich capitalists living like kings, while the working people get shafted.

No joke.
Gingrich recently praised China's lack of a capital gains tax!
He said it's a model of what we should be doing.

[WinkyDink]

155. Dubya revealed it when he said:

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." - George W. Bush (December 18, 2000)

Oh, wait.

"Mr. Obama has told people that it would be so much easier to be the president of China. As one official put it, 'No one is scrutinizing Hu Jintao’s words in Tahrir Square.'”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/world/africa/11policy.html?_r=2

[guruoo]

149. Beat me to it

Pol Pot was the first thing that came to mind.

[Poll_Blind]

4. ...

PB

[tabatha]

5. A VERY VERY sick one.

[Thunderstruck]

35. My first thought too. +1000

[elocs]

6. A society that is in decline, one that embraces ignorance and the prospect of a new dark age,

where intellectualism is belittled and science is scoffed. It's downhill from here, more downhill as a large segment of this society embraces and celebrates what we see as a decline.

[mcar]

65. Bingo

We are in a society that embraces ignorance and treats anything intellectual as evil.

[conspirator]

7. An idiocracy n/t

[live love laugh]

8. At the same time that Amurikans hardly know who the VPOTUS is; or that the Constitution is law

or how many sit on the Supreme Court.

How much more dumb do they want us to be?

#$^$&$&%!#@!!!

There are no words...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-enthusiasm-surveys-find-ignorance-us-constitution/story?id=13206667

[ixion]

9. A doomed one.

n/t

[QED]

10. The urgency is about doing it quickly before people in general

figure out what's going on. Same with all the anti-union rhetoric. Notice how quickly *all* the Republican governors are moving on stripping collective bargaining rights.

[marmar]

11. A completely bollocksed up one that's on the bullet train to Collapseville.

nt

[WillyT]

12. HEY... No High Speed Rail, Dammit !!!

:hide::evilgrin::hide:

:hi:

[marmar]

16. Sorry about that. ...... But the bullet train is the only nice thing about the trip.

:P

[The Straight Story]

13. Even folks on the left have been doing this

Catholic schools? All priests/male teachers = molesters.

Nuns? They all beat you with rulers.

Home schoolers? The most evil of the bunch (especially their teachers - parents).

Why is it ok to attack some teachers and not others?

Why is it that we hate diversity when it comes to education choices but value it elsewhere?

Teachers have been hammered from the right and left.

Maybe we could all stand back and give them a break.

[provis99]

109. you can never resist a chance to attack the left, can you?

[JDPriestly]

146. Please note, Straight Story,

It wasn't teachers, police officers, firemen or even district attorneys who destroyed our economy. It was businessmen.

I strongly support public schools. But teachers in private schools will soon suffer from this attack on teachers even more than those in public schools.

That is because the point in the assault on teachers is to lower their pay.

And private schools generally pay less than public schools. So, when the public school teachers' pay decreases, the pay of the private school teachers will probably decrease even more.

This is not really a left or right issue. Lots of public employees are Republicans and quite right-wing. This is about shifting the blame to public employees in order to deflect from the real culprits -- on Wall Street and in other big businesses.

[DirkGently]

14. We all should be asking that, loudly and often.

[jannyk]

15. Most Communist Dictatorships did it

...the professors, intellectuals, teachers, writers, free thinkers are the first to go. Have to keep the masses uneducated and compliant don't you know. 'They' must not question what 'We' tell them is so.

[markpkessinger]

17. A hallmark of class warfare ...

...is the fomenting of resentments between middle and working classes over an ever-diminishing share of the total wealth. Sad to say, the rich have been tremendously successful at it.

[paparush]

18. A society subjected to persistent a Psy Ops campaign.

[pacalo]

19. Exactly! And it's shameful. We're re-living the McCarthy period.

[TheKentuckian]

20. One on it's deathbed.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. One in decline.

[KoKo]

22. RANK FESTERING WEEDS of an IMPLODING SOCIETY does THIS SHIT!

(sorry...needed to vent) but it's dreadful what's going on..all over the USA and even in NC that went for Obama..(we were a Red State) but they've got us by the "balls" now. Since Howard Dean left as DNC Chair we've gone down hill. Obama for America here in one the Southern States that put him "over the top" is DOA. Where ARE THEY? Kick out Dean and now we Have Fascist Christian Rights who've taken over Everything!

You wouldn't believe what they are doing...but it's EVERYWHERE. It's like a FULL BATTLE ASSAULT on us Dems all across America. It's sickening...

[TexasProgresive]

23. One that's in a death spiral of ignorance. n/t

[young_at_heart]

24. The movie "Idiocracy" gives a clue

As a retired elementary school teacher I feel unbearably sad about what is happening to our country!!!

[Safetykitten]

25. A sick society. Akin to book burning.

[Jefferson23]

26. A society that has been bought and paid for by the oligarchs, that's who attacks teachers,

among other things.

[TK421]

27. they're touching the future all right...a very sick future brought on by everything

they are being spoon-fed by the media...they just don't know any better

they are also being influenced by TV...the most powerful of parents

[Canuckistanian]

28. I've never undrstood that

Here in Canada, teachers are still valued. My wife was a former teacher and it helped her get her current job as a government instructor.

The demonization of teachers in America puzzles me.

What do people want in a teacher? Selflessness? Dedication? Insight? Compassion?
I can't see any faults with American teachers vs. Canadian teachers.

What is it? Resentment? Envy?

I personally think that today's politicians did badly in school and that the same traits that made them bad students are an ADVANTAGE to today's politicians.

[Jefferson23]

29. It's their way to garner support to weaken and then destroy the unions.

If you can convince the general public a group of professionals are not what they
seem to be..makes it easier to get rid of the boogeyman..the big bad unions.

[Canuckistanian]

30. But why teachers?

What is it that they find so repulsive?

Why not engineers or accountants or social workers? They're ALL professionals who need a college degree.

Why pick on teachers?

[Pacifist Patriot]

56. My take?

Remember this is first and foremost about union busting. The right wing wants ALL organized labor defunded, disenfranchised and disempowered. Unions are a key source of election funds for the Democratic party. Bust unions, bust your political opposition.

So why teachers?

For one thing, they are government employees. This makes them fairly easy targets to begin the union busting move. They are paid by our tax dollars and what is the right wing fostering and exploiting? A feeling that we pay too much in taxes (stop laughing) and that these tax dollars are ill-used. Demonizing teachers plays right into those hands.

I know people disagree with me on this, but I also personally believe they are seen as easy targets by the right wing because it is a profession seen as primarily pursued by females. Yes, we all know plenty of male teachers, but as a whole if you ask someone to conjur up the mental image of a school teacher it's likely to be female.

They are also coming after public school teachers because of the ring wing vision of a fully privatized America. Gov. Scott of Florida ceremonially signed his ridiculous and unconstitutional executive order regarding state employees this week in a charter school rather than a public school. They really do believe corporations should educate our children rather than local governments.

[YvonneCa]

86. I also think the Dems involved decided that...

...fixing education is SO important to our future...and I believe it is...that they would help dismantle the old system, unions and all. MY PROBLEM is what they are replacing the old system with(privatization that is cheaper)...and that they blame teachers for what is wrong with the old system when, in fact, teachers have had little voice or power in that system.

[freshwest]

98. 100% agreement with your analysis. The media and churches did this.

[Canuckistanian]

148. I don't think we should ignore the misogynist angle

The truth is, most teachers ARE women, especially in the lower grades.

Perhaps that fact can be pointed out to gain an advantage.

I really don't know. But it's obviously counterproductive to broadbrush ALL teachers and create distrust and hatred. After all, that hatred and mistrust WILL be carried over to corporate teachers as well.

[Jefferson23]

78. Oh they will reach out to the firefighter etc, but with the teachers they

have an easy scapegoat for now...so they are first on the list. We have a great deal of inequity when it comes to how the US deals with poverty
and how public schools are funded, among other social problems. If you can lay the blame on teachers, you can get rid of their unions..that
is the goal.

This has been coming for awhile, the blame game, but now we have Democrats on board too.

[YvonneCa]

89. Not just first,but...

...necessary. Getting rid of firemen leaves us unsafe. Getting rid of cops does,too. Gettingrid of teachers...the expensive ones...helps change education, an Obama goal. Saves money, allows for the overhaul of education. ;)

[Jefferson23]

136. The unions, they are the threat. Sickening really..the corporations and

all the wealthy individuals are doing just fine...no tax increases for them.

[guruoo]

150. RW wants to rewrite history, and they view public education, and it's teachers

as impediments to that end.

Not Satisfied with US History, Some Conservatives Rewrite It

Thursday 01 April 2010

by: Steven Thomma | McClatchy Newspapers

Washington - The right is rewriting history.

The most ballyhooed effort is under way in Texas, where conservatives have pushed the state school board to rewrite guidelines, downplaying Thomas Jefferson in one high school course, playing up such conservatives as Phyllis Schlafly and the Heritage Foundation and challenging the idea that the Founding Fathers wanted to separate church and state. The effort reaches far beyond one state, however.

In articles and speeches, on radio and TV, conservatives are working to redefine major turning points and influential figures in American history, often to slam liberals, promote Republicans and reinforce their positions in today's politics.

The Jamestown settlers? Socialists. Founding Father Alexander Hamilton? Ill-informed professors made up all that bunk about him advocating a strong central government.
Theodore Roosevelt? Another socialist. Franklin D. Roosevelt? Not only did he not end the Great Depression, he also created it.

Joe McCarthy? Liberals lied about him. He was a hero.


more...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/01/91478/some-conservatives-rewrite-history.html

[sabrina 1]

41. It's about money. Isn't everything? They want to privatize

the Public Schools and get their hands on the education funds. They will provide the teachers for these 'businesses' and you can imagine the curriculum. Well, you don't have to, Bush's NCLB is already in place, destroying the next several generations of students by forcing them NOT to think, just take tests. And the publishers of the testing material, friends of Bush, have made a fortune.

We elected a Democrat hoping among so many other things, to get rid of that horrendous system of 'education'. Instead, he has gone further than Bush along the road to privatization and has enhanced rather than abolished, NCLB.

Anywhere there are huge public funds, you will find them with their hands in the till. The sad thing is that people fall for the lies and the promises of 'better schools' and the lies about 'choice' etc.

To accomplish their goals, they have to destroy the public school system. They do not want those funds paying salaries to teachers who belong to unions who try to get decent pay for those teachers. So, the recipe is to destroy the Teacher's Unions, demonize the Public School System closing as many of them as possible and replacing them with 'Charter Schools' run by private orgs. The middle men, just like in the Health Care system, take out their profits, diminishing the amount spent on education and they accomplish two of their important goals, the end publicly funded social programs and the rise of for profit schools.

And we elected a president who is fully on board with their goals.

[bvar22]

87. We were ALLOWED to elect a president fully on board with their goals.

*

[bergie321]

122. The ignorant righties

Feel that the schools failed them so they want to take out their frustrations against teachers.

[howmad1]

139. Better to ask: What do the rethuglicans want in a teacher?

The answer: Someone who teaches right wing nuttery. Someone who is expert in dumbing down the student body. Why? Because stupid people don't vote! Fuax Noise is an excellent example of the kind of teacher the thugs want. Educated folks usually are progressive thinkers. Unfortunately, they are becoming few and far between.

[Starry Messenger]

31. k&r

[revolutionnow45]

32. Not for profit health care would have been the solution to make everyone happy

Teachers could pay less in deductibles and copays...and save enough to give tax cuts as well.

[Romulox]

33. A nation in which workers are truly *not* in solidarity with one another.

See sig.

:shrug:

[U4ikLefty]

34. A society that is being taken apart by those in power.

The ultra-rich & multi-nationals don't need any more educated Americans. We demand too much money & rights for their profit margin.

They DO need our military, so why not make it the only option for most young folks?

The American middle-class is just in the way.

[PA Democrat]

36. A society that prefers to ignore the negative impact of poverty on

academic success?

[Hannah Bell]

37. This society has always denigrated subgroups.

Nobody much cares until it bites them personally. In fact, they scarcely notice, or even join in agreement.

It's teachers' turn, that's all.

Any group can and will be attacked to deflect attention from those who hold power, take blame, give people a target for their anger about society's ills.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. +1

[OmahaBlueDog]

38. Public school teachers are public employees. They are therefore incompetent

Pay attention -- these teachers are cut from the same cloth as those clowns at the IRS and that idiot behind the couter at the DMV.

...now private education is a different subject. Those teachers are dedicated. We know this because they perform vastly superior work for a fraction of the wages and benefits.

(I trust that you realize the above is written in the spirit of satire)

[gkhouston]

39. Most real people I know think almost all the teachers they've met are hard-working,

wonderful people who aren't paid or respected nearly as much as they should be.

Fake people on television largely hold the exact opposite opinion.

Cui bono? (A teacher taught me that phrase, long after another teacher taught me never to take things I "learn" from the media at face value.)

[democrank]

40. A society with screwed up priorities does

[sabrina 1]

42. A Capitalist Society.

It's all about privatization and profits.

[TBF]

49. +1 nt

[quaker bill]

44. One that is spiraling around the drain

not to put too fine a point on it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Yep.

And you'd think education would be the best way to save it. :shrug:

[callous taoboy]

46. Look around you, not necessarily on this thread. But my ignore list is full of teacher-bashers.

I have read some very hateful, narrow-minded things on DU regarding teachers. Makes my blood boil.

[callous taoboy]

47. Just now the recs dropped from 44 to 42. Assholes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. I hear ya

[RegieRocker]

48. A society that doesn't take responsibly for their own errors

and blames it on another.

[Octafish]

50. A society that doesn't want intelligent, informed and EDUCATED ''citizens.''

A tyranny, in other words.

[USBlues]

51. Im not sure our "society" has attacked teachers...

The corporate criminal class is attcking them. And they have Fox news so the attacks get replayed and echoed all over america. Then you have coporate tools in media and government that join in the chorus and before you know it, it appears the whole country hates teachers and thinks they should all be fired. Anyone i talk to does not understand these attacks and disagree with the assertions.

Its the corporate controlled media and government that makes it appear as if our society has it in for teachers. Pure propaganda. we must bring down the corpo-rats that have infested our government and airwaves. Until we do this...until we rise against these greedy rodents who have stolen our money, our jobs and education from our chidren we will continue down this dark road. And it will get much much worse.

[spedtr90]

116. individuals are buying into the propaganda

You only have to read comments posted to any articles in any newspapers that mention teachers or education. Much of it is really ugly.

[CTyankee]

52. I've been a Literacy Volunteer for several years, tutoring people from MANY countries

all over the world. My students HONOR me and other tutors. They respect us and act respectfully during class time. The only students who disturbed a class that I know about were two Nigerian sisters who were developmentally challenged and needed a kind of ESL "special ed." And who knows what they went through back in their native land...

[strategery blunder]

53. This might cheer you up

A class cut that even teachers can support! :)

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-district-300-teacher-layoffs-mar24,0,862613.story

I'm proud to say that I am an alumnus of the above-named school!

[Nordmadr]

54. A collapsing one. N/T

[uponit7771]

55. AMEN!!

[Bragi]

57. One where 38% Think Japan Disaster a 'Sign From God'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x566755

[WhiteTara]

59. in most genocidal actions

the intelligent ones are killed first. In this way, they have only the stupid to push around. So since it would be noticed that teachers were turning up dead, they are just killing them off metaphorically.

[EFerrari]

60. An attack on teachers is an attack on democracy.

There is no other construction that can be put on it.

Wrong under Bush, still wrong under Obama.

[Jamastiene]

61. A willfully ignorant society attacks its teachers.

I still say it is willful ignorance. They know better. They just do not WANT to know better. So, they attack the messengers. They want people ignorant so people will be easier to control. It's all about control to the right wing. They get off on it. If they can control a population to do their bidding, they totally get off on it for years and years to come. They want the populace ignorant. Teachers end ignorance. They can't stand that.

Did you know that when you teach a science class, the kids go home and half of them are told it is all poppycock? Did you know when you teach a foreign language, the kids go home and most of them hear their parents talk about English being the only language they should have to know? Did you know that when you teach English, the kids go home and hear a version of English that doesn't match up in any way to what you taught them?

Everything teachers try to teach is undermined once the kids go home. Remember, the parents of a large number of the kids you teach hate education and love ignorance.

K&R, because ignorance is teachable, but willful ignorance is impossible.

[hifiguy]

62. A society hell-bent on its own destruction

This is what the monomaniacs did in Cambodia.

[hack89]

63. Come to Rhode Island to see one possible reason.

the issue is not teachers or education policy. It is public service employee unions stepping into politics and becoming power brokers. In Rhode Island the unions are key for democrats to win at all levels - funding and organizing (GOTV) being what they bring to the table. Their payoff is a seat at the table - union leaders are everywhere on every legislative staff. There are even active union executives that are elected officials. Union legislation is always past regardless of cost to the tax payer. The problem is that they have over played their hand and things have gotten way out of control - they have effectively cut out the ordinary citizen from the political process. Union officials actively interject themselves not only into the legislative process but also into elections - one local leader promised to "get" an elected official who wouldn't toe the union line. He used union money and people to inject himself into a Democratic primary to ensure the "right" guy won.

So Rhode Island is effectively ruled by a coalition of Democrats and unions - a coalition that has put us into dangerous financial straits. How do you change things without reducing union influence?

The teachers are caught in the cross fire - the general consensus is that the public really supports "their" teachers. However, they see the union leaders as nothing more than rapacious politicians that do not care for the general good.

[Raksha]

97. Those are some very right-wing talking points you've got there...

Re "In Rhode Island the unions are key for democrats to win at all levels - funding and organizing (GOTV) being what they bring to the table. Their payoff is a seat at the table - union leaders are everywhere on every legislative staff. There are even active union executives that are elected officials. Union legislation is always past regardless of cost to the tax payer. The problem is that they have over played their hand and things have gotten way out of control - they have effectively cut out the ordinary citizen from the political process."

I'm just saying...

[hack89]

107. No - it is reality

Rhode Island deserves its reputation for political corruption. We are basically a one party state - power and money corrupt democrats too.

Mobsters and Lobsters is our unofficial motto.

I resent broad brush smears instead of cogent argument - it smacks of RW bullying to me.

[Wednesdays]

117. Broad-brush smears

I see there was a lot of irony for breakfast today.

[hack89]

152. I live in Rhode Island, I am involved in politics in Rhode Island

I understand my own state. The long string of federal corruption convictions against Rhode Island Democrat cannot be just waved away.

[Nevernose]

123. Almost all states are in "dire financial straits"

And that includes right-to-work, no-public-employee union states, too. It's not teachers or their ubions that screwed up the entire world's economy, it was Wall Street.

[hack89]

153. No - the long list of Rhode Island politicians convicted for corruption

tells me that it was not all Wall Streets fault.

[CBGLuthier]

64. China had themselves a "cultural revolution" that involved a lot of teachers

But to answer more directly, a sick and diseased society of course.

[midnight]

66. K&R.... The real changes that need to occur in our education system

is learning and not testing... Smaller class rooms not more competition.... Attacking teachers for jamming their class rooms full of kids, and then testing the crap out of them is not education.. Let's attack that first and get rid of it.....

[ensho]

68. a country run by the religiously insane

nt

[whathehell]

69. A society whose elite members send their kids to Private Schools. n/t

Those other people's kids can flip burgers, for all they care.

..Hell, they might even make good chauffers for their kids one day.

[tuckessee]

70. A society whose teachers crank out semi-literate, historically ignorant buffoons. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. And whose fault is that?

[WatsonT]

76. The parents, the administrators, the teachers, the curriculum

the students, etc.

Plenty of blame to go around.

Looking at only one aspect will not solve the problem.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[walldude]

96. But not a mention of lack of funding.

Yeah... you know all about schools :eyes:

[WatsonT]

104. Are our schools underfunded?

That's news to me.



For healthcare the argument is: Europe is spending less and getting more per person, we need to make structural changes in how these policies are implemented.

But for some reason on education it's: Europe is spending more and getting more per student . . . . we need to spend more and make no structural changes.

Now if you'd said the money is improperly allocated I would agree. But we currently spend more in total and more per person than any other nation on earth (except Switzerland per capita, barely).

[walldude]

105. Like I said you know nothing about schools...

In my kids schools we pay for everything,and what the teacher doesn't have she buys out of her pocket.

You want to sit there and tell me how well our schools are funded when they can't afford paper and pencils. When art and music classes are being phased out due to lack of money, when classes are so overcrowded students are stuffed into trailers for some classes. Yeah.. how many children do you have in public school right now? Judging from your ignorance I'd say none.

[WatsonT]

106. Other than the facts

We spend more and get less than any other country in the first world. (with the exception of Switzerland)

Look this is just basic math.

You divide what we spend by how many students we have. Simple enough.

You are talking about allocation, not lump-sum spending.

[Wednesdays]

114. Doesn't make sense

One of the highest per-capita in the world? Yet schools are falling apart and classroom sizes are overwhelming. Something just doesn't add up.

[WatsonT]

143. We have too many administrators

the money is there, it's just poorly allocated.

[rpannier]

124. Your facts ignore other factors

1. The percent of GDP spend on education by the US is lower than other post industrialized nations

2. The allocations of those funds spent are not equal -- Go to Illinois some time and check out the spending in Willamette Illinois vs Oglesby.

3. Many of the higher scoring nations (Finland, Japan and here in Korea) have smaller populations and are very homogenous countries -- If you see a Korean or Japanese they are invariably only Korean or Japanese (no hyphenated Irish-Korean, Chinese-Japanese)

4. We in Korea and in Japan spends thousands of dollars every year of our own money on Hagwons, Academies and tutors to teach our kids math, science, English, Korean/Japanese, History, etc. You spend it on sports.

on edit 5. The US is alosothe land of 2nd and 3rd chances, so the testing results don't carry the weight they do in places like Korea and Japan. If you bomb the 9th grade test, you have to go to the Commercial/Industrial High SChools and your chances of getting into a University become very slim at best.
In the US, academic high schools are open to all.

Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story -- like your chart.
I would also point out that the US still produces more Nobel Prize winners in the sciences/math than Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, UK, etc.

[callous taoboy]

133. Let me be the first to offer you a huge thank you for setting things straight.

I've been a U.S. teacher for 17 years, first in oil rich Alaska where the funding for education was pretty phenomenal in hindsight. I've been a teacher for the last 10 years in Texas. I don't even know where to begin. I have somewhere to be in a little bit, so I'll sum it up by saying that during those 10 years I have seen a slow, constant whittling away at what our district was able to offer its students. I've seen a slow but steady ebb in the amount of parent support as well. Both things are crucial for student success. But everyone is an expert on education these days, including those with no experience as an educator you have hopefully just set straight up thread.

[WatsonT]

144. For point 1

why does that matter? Do the kids realize that they are getting less as a share of what their parents make than kids in other countries so they don't try as hard?

That makes zero sense.

Look at this graph then tell me that we have low scores because we aren't spending enough:


2: that would be allocation, which I referenced earlier, not lump sum spending
3: not sure what your plan is to deal with that. We are a diverse nation, does that make us weaker in your opinion? Or dumber?
4: Sounds like you're placing the blame on the parents, that's verboten around here.
5: sounds like you're placing the blame on the students now, also verboten.

[rpannier]

151. For each point

1. A higher amount of the GDP (like Japan and Korea) it means that there are more resources for educating our children. We are a country of about 48 million people and by spending more of our resources on education more kids get access to the information and the supplies that go with it.
In Korea, there is no politician who would ever talk about cutting funding for school. To do so would mean you'd never get elected again.

2. I understand, but it doesn't change the fact that children in Willamette are getting better access to teachers, supplies, etal than they are in Oglesby.

3. It doesn't make a society weaker or dumber. It makes it different and that difference does effect the organization of the classroom and the effectiveness of the methods used.
But, it does mean that 99.999999% of every child enters school at first grade speaks the language. In the US there are many children who enter public schools who don't speak English (or speak at a very low level) and those kids usually have parents who don't speak the language.
Because of the homogeneity of this society classroom expectations, both academically and behaviorally are pretty much universal. I have never seen any classroom that I've visited that had a list of rules posted on the wall. Everyone (kids, teachers and parents) know the rules and expectations.
Also, in this society, if there is a dispute between a teacher and a child as to what happened it is always assumed the teacher is telling the truth. I don't know any of my Korean friends that have ever taken their children's side against the teachers.

4. Not blaming anyone. It's the way it is. Parents in the US spend thousands on soccer camps, hockey camps, football camps, etc. It's what society values. In some cases (because of limited family resources) it's the only way their son or daughter is going to get into college is with an athletic scholarship.

5. As I said in number 5 of my post. If you don't get into the "University High School" you're probably stuck as a laborer for life. That kind of stress is immense. Throw on top of it, the worst thing you can do as a child is be a disappointment to your family, the stress is horrendous.
Again, not blaming anyone.

on edit: Education is viewed as a societal responsibility and a family responsibility. I have NEVER run into a Korean who has told me that they shouldn't have to pay for education because they have no children or grandchildren in schools.
The pressure on parents is also rather intense. Especially coming from the grandparents.

[callous taoboy]

134. Love you, Walldude.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ck4829]

71. Totalitarian societies

Khmer Rouge did it and schools in Nazi Germany became places where after you learned the alphabet and count to 100, then you spent the rest of your time in school learning how great Hitler and the Nazis were and how Jesus was the first Aryan supersoldier.

[Major Hogwash]

73. A Tea Party society!! They'll sip tea while going insane like Alice in Wonderland!!

They're going to trash systems that we have built over the last 70 years --- just because they can!!!

[Major Hogwash]

75. It's de-evolution, at a rapid pace!

Get dumber, don't pay attention, WMDS are in Iraq, no they're in Iran, now they're in Syria, Faux Snooze told me so, Glenn Beck sounds like he knows what he is talking about - if he didn't, Murdoch would have fired him by now, Rush Limbaugh is not a racist - he just hates non-whites is all, immigration is out of hand in Kansas, there should never be another abortion - white people won't be the majority of people in the US in 30 years, liberals always attacks the white male because our Founding Fathers were all white males, women don't make as much in the workplace because they always get pregnant and need maternity leave, gays should never get married - the bible says so, the United States was founded on Christian-Judeo principles and if you disagree then either you're unAmerican or will go to hell, guns will make you safer, drinking tea is habit-forming as long as it is not that dammed green liberal tea that Kerry drank - thank you for pointing that out Candy Crowley!!!!!

[krabigirl]

77. A very sick one. We glorify the military and wall street and athletes, but hate on teachers..

[AngryAmish]

79. Athens after the peloponnesian war.

[leeroysphitz]

81. Barter Town?

[Uncle Joe]

82. A society; that wishes to dumb its' own people down as a means to make it easier

to manipulate, use and abuse them, for the benefit of the mega corporations, wealthy and powerful.

Thanks for the thread, proud2BlibKansan.

[bluesmail]

83. I see it as a distraction FROM the collapse of the economy in 2008

What kind of society? Why a fascist one that wants to mold our kid's minds early on so it will stick throughout their lifetimes. To vote hard right.

[Blue Owl]

84. King Focker's

It pleases His Royal Majesty to take money away from teachers and give it to billionaires.

[Kablooie]

85. AMERICA THAT'S WHO! FUCK YEAH! NUMBER ONE! THE BEST IN THE WORLD!

[lovuian]

90. not a smart one

and that is what they want stupid Americans

[bobthedrummer]

91. Governor Scott Walker et. al. of Walker Sin n/t

[sarcasmo]

93. Kick!

[okieinpain]

94. oh my I've been thinking that since the repubs took the mid terms

I've been going around saying "first it was the crack dealers, then it was terrorist, now it's teachers, who's next the police" and people at my job look at me like I'm crazy. seriously i think if the repugs get desperate enough they will go after the police.

[Wednesdays]

119. They won't "go after" police (as in confront them)

They'll just gradually shift from municipal police over to all-private police. :scared:

[pitohui]

99. what kind of teachers attack their society? a difficult past creates a difficult future

to a certain extent, it is very difficult for me to give one tiny damn, and the reason is because i was abused by a teacher, and it was covered up by ALL teachers and the administrators

teachers (and as we're learning, ministers & priests) covered up, for decades, those in their midst who abused their students -- in fact, they were quick to discredit and "pile on" to the victims because that's the only way to deny

the twentieth century, for whatever reason, was a century of teachers and other trusted folks like the ministers/priests pretty much being free to abuse the hell out of their charges

a lot of victims are still alive

even though i sympathize w. the protestors and the anti-union busters, and even though some of my best friends come from families of teachers...at the end of the day, the very word "teacher" makes me a little sick

many of the people leading this charge against teachers, against women, against unions are VERY obviously filled w. anger and hate that they can't put aside, i won't excuse the haters, they could have made a choice to keep their hate to themselves or even to try to overcome it...but i understand how the hate got created

there was great cruelty among teachers when i was young, not all teachers participated in it but, at the end of the day, they all covered for it, you never saw anyone stand up on the side of the victim

for me, all i can do is say "well, there will never be justice for what was done to me but at least i can try to avoid abusing someone else out of anger and hate"...but a lot of people don't even know or remember why they're so angry any more, they just remember that teachers made them feel shitty and to hell with 'em

tell me i'm not right...there is a HUGE celebration of ignorance and anti-education in this country, and it didn't come out of nowhere, our founding fathers valued learning and education...something happened, and a lot of that "something" was abuse, bible-based abuse even "spare the rod & spoil the child" is going to create some serious screwed-up individuals

hitting and abusing children was standard for too long and something got broken inside that makes it very difficult for some of us to give a care about generic "teachers," even tho we might love our own friends and family members who teach

again, i WON'T excuse this attack on teachers, nothing comes from wallowing forever in the past and taking revenge on any random teacher who comes along...but i feel i know where some of the anti-teacher sentiment comes from

when i was in school, pretty much anyone who had an independent heart, mind, spirit hated "teachers," even if there was a special teacher or two who made it all worthwhile, because "teachers" were on the whole just cruel -- now i'm certainly older, but it ain't like i was born in 1909 or something -- admit it, this happened to a lot of US out there

[callous taoboy]

108. And so all cops must be bad in your mind, since there are cases of police brutality?

Yes or no?

[Wednesdays]

121. I'm really, really sorry for what happened to you, but how does teacher-bashing help things?

:shrug:

[opihimoimoi]

100. NEVER EVER VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS...srry...had to shout :o)

[moondust]

101. An offshoring one?

Why waste your time and resources educating and training a work force if you plan to eventually privatize everything and move virtually all your jobs to dirt cheap labor markets overseas?

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

102. A fascist society, yearning to return to child labor and every form of inequality ....

[Skidmore]

103. The same kind that refuses to care for its children, elderly, and disabled.

[abelenkpe]

113. +1000 nt

[stockholmer]

110. 1 that's functioning according to a 100+ plus year plan(US as military 4 global wealth consolidation

then flush it slowly, grindingly, relentlessly down the toilet as all industrialized nations slide lower and lower to a globalized serfdom of wage/debt peonage and greatly reduced parity.

The oligarchic monetary system, once it is completely dominant, commoditizes and levels all, except for its controllers, who are exempt from the yoke of electronic chattel debt.

[certainot]

111. same society that allows1000 of its loudest radio stations to attack teachers 24/7

without complaining.

if limbaugh and hannity and beck and the rest of them can do it, protected by call screeners and on stations that broadcast university sports, why wouldn't it be okay?

[abelenkpe]

112. Crazy isn't it?

Students and parents were out protesting cuts this morning at the public school on our way to the montessori preschool my little ones attend. My son asked what it was about and I did my best to explain. He said he loves Ms. Claudia (his teacher) and thought teachers should be listened to. :)

[54anickel]

115. At the school board meeting this week, they first said there'd be no public

hearing and that it would be a closed meeting. After the teachers left they changed it back into a public hearing. There was one lone teacher left and the board let her have it, the crowd booed and yelled that she was greedy and over paid. One board member (up for re-election) raised her voice saying she didn't care what the teachers brought to the table, she would vote against it. I wasn't there and am waiting on a callback from a friend that was. Hopefully I'll have more details later. We're in a rural area bordering the reddest county in Wisconsin.

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. OMG that's terrible

I'm so sorry.

[callous taoboy]

135. Words fail me. Simply unreal, although I must say

that even though the hostility from our central office / school board crew toward teachers isn't as overt, it is there none-the-less.

[Faygo Kid]

118. One bought and paid for by these guys.

[Brigid]

120. An imploding society.

Next Question?

[OwnedByFerrets]

125. I Know this is a rhetorical question, however,

its the same society that THRIVEs on war, that has a holiday for a pedophile and slave owner (Chris Columbus) and that makes it possible for hate mongers to get 400 million dollar contracts. What a country!!

[malaise]

126. Excellent post

K & R

[DissedByBush]

127. Ancient Greece? n/t

[DeSwiss]

128. What kind?

- An ignorant one.


K&R

[felix_numinous]

129. By denying what they fear the most,

evolution, they wish to prevent it from happening. They fear the enlightenment of the people, since this would result in transcending the existing paradigm.

I know you teachers understand the gravity of the situation, and I am deeply disturbed to witness our educational system under such assault. Nothing good comes out of mass ignorance.

[Beartracks]

130. They are only interested in worker factories.

This whole being educated and curious, and thinking for oneself -- and don't get me started on "creativity"! -- these things are not required to be a slave worker for the rich.

Thinking is dangerous. Artists: useless.

:sarcasm: alert.

{Edited to add strikethrough]
---------------------

[tomp]

132. it's not "society", it's corporatist sociopaths.

they are a minority but an influential minority, given their control of the government and the media.

[pokerfan]

137. As Dennis Miller is fond of saying...

"Don't need none of that fancy book learning." :dunce:

[laconicsax]

138. It's a hallmark of facism.

(Disdain for intellectuals and the arts)

[upi402]

140. ^+1,000 n/t

[TomClash]

141. To answer your question - 3 answers

A dying one.

A teabagger one.

A stupid one.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

142. A depraved Republican Party controlled one.....depraved!

[Danger Mouse]

145. Obama's America. A country that has lost its soul.

[Xicano]

147. "An organism at war with itself is doomed" -- Carl Sagan

n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

154. The kind of society made up of people who failed school

[dkf]

156. One that is falling farther and farther behind the upcoming economies of the world.

One that recognizes we will become a second class country if we aren't flexible enough to train our future workers properly. One who has staked it's future on educated workers who create the innovations that will keep us able to consume the rest of the planets natural resources and live a life vastly superior to everyone else.

[Zorra]

157. A regressive society with a Plutarcho-fascist system of government..

The major push toward dumbing down America began when Reagan appointed William Bennet (yes, the same William Bennett, interesting horror story there) to the post of Secretary of Education, and the dumbing down of America has gained momentum like a snowball to hell ever since.

The 60's scared the shit out of the then not as powerful plutarchy. Smart, outraged college kids exposed their lies during the 'nam conflict. People were thinking, questioning authority, asserting their rights.

So the PTB used the media to create strong anti-hippie public opinion. The puppet Reagan was put into office, and the PTB began the process of using extensive, long term measures in order to gain total control of government, education, media, and society in general.

Dumbing down the populace is one way they can help create a nation of sheeple that will do their bidding without question cuz they are not intelligent and educated enough to recognize their oppressor, and not smart enough to do anything about it if they do get wise to the enemy.

The fruit of this long term strategy of dumbing down the populace is evidenced by the last election. How utterly stupid can Americans be? A bunch of totally dumbass shitheads voted in republicans just 2 years after Bush and republicans destroyed our economy, etc.

So now, they can accelerate the attack on education, making the populace even more ignorant as society speeds toward idiocracy.

And, of course, we may have both Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann running for Prez in 2012. Two dangerous, totally clueless idiots running for the most powerful legislative/military position on the planet.

That speaks for itself. End of story.

[LWolf]

158. An ignorant, self-destructive society. nt