Dear Koch Brothers: You have BILLIONS of dollars! Why keep the rest of us from having some?

[LynneSin]

Honestly, I can't even fathom owning BILLIONS of dollars. I mean I get happy feet when I see that I have just a thousand in my bank account and I know for many working families they don't even see that much.

I mean you could spend a million dollars every single day of your life and you'd STILL never see an end to all of your money. But for many families, every single day they're checking underneath their sofa cushions and inside their pants pockets just to find a few extra dollars to help pay the bills. And this just isn't the homeless, the unemployed or welfare cases - this is working families who want to give a good, safe home to their families.

What I don't understand is why you begrudges us having healthcare. You realize that no matter what somebody pays for the healthcare whether or not we have a healthcare plan. The difference is this - if our country had a solid, affordable healthcare for every person then the cost of healthcare overall would go down. Why? Because for the poor, they can't afford to do things like yearly checkups and PCP visits when they are sick so for them their main form of treatment is over-the-counter remedies, expensive emergency room visits and a prayer that it's not life-threatening or bank-busting.

I also don't understand what the big deal is about giving families a livable salary. While you live in the lap of luxury where no extravagant purchase is 'too much' for your billions of dollars, we working class folks have to give up alot just to keep a roof over our heads. Vacation and fancy cars are no longer a reward for hard work when we are living month-to-month keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table. And the idea of saving for a child to go to college is now a luxury for the working class.

And seriously, what is it with you and the environment? I can't imagine any environmental regulation so outrageous that it would render the 2 of you broke just to get into compliance. Those regulations ensure that we can keep our environment clean, the air & water we need healthy and the working conditions safe. Seriously - splurge a few million and keep in compliance. Trust me, that's probably a days earning in interest for you.

And Unions are not the enemy. To the millions of working class in this country , they have made a difference when it comes to working conditions. My Stepfather, a Steelworker Union member, once showed us the spot at his local steel plant where they would take the bodies of those who died while working. His body is crippled from years of working the line but his work with the Union have ensured that future generations no longer face these kinds of conditions. I know I'm not Union but I can thank a Union for the decent salaries, healthcare and reasonable working hours that I have with my job. But you'll bust the Unions just so you can add to your billions of dollars, shame on you!

Jesus once said 'It is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than a wealthy man to reach the kingdom of Heaven'. That quote wasn't geared towards us working class but for people like you - Charles & David Koch - and any other filthy rich gazillionaire who would try to squash the working class in order to boost your profits. Sure, people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckenberg are billionaires but at least I see them giving money back to the community with massive donations to help make this world a better place. Like you 2, they probably couldn't spend all their money if they tried but at least they are doing good with it and not just making themselves a fat pig.

So shame on you Charles & David Koch. May your time in Hell be painfully hot and forever eternal and may the faces of the people who you squashed in order to reap in your billions haunt you every single day. I would suggest you read Dante's "Inferno" for surely there is a hell like that for you.

Sincerely

Lynne Sin
In solidarity with the Unions throughout this great country!

[Blues Heron]

1. so. well. said.

thanks LynneSin

k&R

[MedicalAdmin]

40. Want to know how much a billion dollars is...?

Let's say you make the national median income of $50,000 a year. Let's further assume that you don't have to pay taxes, rent, a mortgage, groceries, insurance, vehicle, etc. In other words you have no expenses. Let's further assume that you save absolutely every dollar you make. All of it. 100%.

It will take you 20,000 years to earn 1 billion. THAT's the level of greed of the Koch brothers. If ever a pair needed to be dead, dead, dead for the good of humanity, they are likely it.

Dear Koch Bros. Remember the french revolution. Shit happens to rulers who get too arrogant. Bad shit. To you and your entire family. The family of King Louis of France was pruned down to a stump. They didn't leave a single relative inside the country alive and they dispatched assassins to get most of the rest of them.

[Dulcinea]

73. For some people, enough is never enough.

They have to be the richest, biggest, most powerful, or what have you.

[SharonAnn]

78. The answer is "Because they don't have ALL of the dollars, yet."

[catbyte]

90. Because they're impotent?

[deutsey]

2. Because for these people, it's not enough that they win

we have to lose, too. :mad:

[bluethruandthru]

3. Great post! How do we get them to read it?

:applause:

[BobbyBoring]

43. Great post! How do we get them to read it?

I duuno,

Call them and tell them you're Scott walker and you're sending them a fax??

[vssmith]

59. Is their corporate headquarters in Kansas City?

[Capitalocracy]

85. I bet it's a lot easier to get through to Scott Walker if you're David Koch

than it is to get through to David Koch if you're Scott Walker.

[GiveMeFreedom]

49. Tell them

that there is a bazillion tax free dollars waiting for them if they follow your link? I am sure they could not resist taking a peak.

[Liquorice]

4. K&R Greed is like any addiction. You can never get enough. nt

[Kingofalldems]

5. K and R

Freepers--Please read.

[Bozita]

6. Ya know how some folks collect stamps? Well, the Kochs collect money.

They won't rest until they have all of it.

[somone]

7. It's about power

But money is power, so for them it's not a good idea to share

[Bozita]

LOVE that graphic!

[fatbuckel]

25. It`s Freudian. They have small wieners.

[hfojvt]

32. that must be why wiki says this

"Since 2000, Koch has pledged and/or donated more than $600 million to the arts, education and medical research, more than he gave to political causes." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch#Education

Although I suspect that Cato and Heritage might be included in the first total since they call themselves "educational" foundations and Koch probably gains a tax deduction for all of those donations, so they are not purely gifts. Not when $600 million saves you $150 million in taxes.

[The Wielding Truth]

63. Well, Nero liked music,too! It's our democracy that they care nothing about.

[Ilsa]

53. That's what I was about to say: it's about power and desire to control

as much as they can. They want to be able to make life and death decisions about others but never get the blood on their hands. They are evil to the core.

[unblock]

8. you have to be at least a bit of a sociopath to amass such a fortune in the first place

taking as a given that behind every great fortune lies a great crime.

and even if that weren't the case, it wouldn't be long before all that money and all that power corrupted you.

sure, some, like warren buffett, come out with some surprisingly sensible comments from time to time, particularly regarding inheritance, though i harbor no illusions; i'm sure he's no saint in other respects.


once you've amassed a fortune, if you've lost your moral compass, or never had one in the first place, then all that is left is the game. the instincts that led to incredible success -- seize every opportunity, maximize profit, take from others, crush others, bribe regulators, tilt the playing field to your advantage, dodge taxes, etc. -- still are at play, and lead filthy rich people to want nothing more than to become even more stinking rich. if they're on the forbes 1000, they want to be on the forbes 100. if they're on the forbes 100, they want to be on the forbes 10. if they're on the forbes 10, they want to be number 1. if they're number 1, they want more distance above number 2. eventually, they want to be able to ensure that their heirs are numbers 1, 2, and 3.

it's just a game. they deny healthcare and clear air and safety regulations for others because they can, and because they see it as one more way to put distance between their own wealth and the wealth of others.

they didn't get insanely wealthy by having sympathy for the little guy, and they're not about to start now.

[catbyte]

91. Awesome analysis, unblock. Kudos

[woodsprite]

9. EXCELLENT!!!

:applause:

[Uncle Joe]

10. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, LynneSin.

[guitar man]

11. K&R

They are sociopaths, and possibly psychopaths. It's a sickness of a sort. A cancer....a blight on society that we allow this to go on. :grr:

[MinneapolisMatt]

12. Well said.

K&R.

[HuckleB]

13. Good Post. Springsteen put it another way.

"Workin in the field till you get your back burned
Workin `neath the wheels till you get your facts learned.
Baby I got my facts learned real good right now.
You better get it straight darling:
Poor men wanna be rich, rich men wanna be kings,
And a king aint satisfied till he rules everything."

[MindPilot]

14. Because these are people who would pimp their own grandmother

if they thought it would make them an extra $5

[Myrina]

15. ... they're the sad little playground outcasts that had no friends ...

.... and now they've got money and power, they're going to show the rest of us how wrong we were to not include them in the cool kids' club all those years ago ....

[hfojvt]

34. that does not seem true either

"He established an MIT record in basketball by scoring an average of 21 points per game over three years, and held MIT's single-game scoring record of 41 points, from 1962 when he was captain of the team,<3> until it was broken in early 2009 by Jimmy Bartolotta." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch

Then again, you probably don't have to be THAT good to play for MIT in the 1960s, and it may just show that he was a ball hog.

"Pass the ball Koch!!" "It's supposed to be a team sport Koch!"

[Fuddnik]

39. Actually their daddy owned all the playgrounds.

And could afford to hire friends for them.

They earned their money the old fashioned way. They inherited it.

[Maraya1969]

16. If you can find their emails please send that to them. K&R

[RedCloud]

17. And Alí Primera, "Es tiempo ya de que el pueblo gane una."

It's time already that the people won one thing.

[mod mom]

18. They are DAMN tired of having to pay minimum wages for lawn care!

sheesh..give those hard working bros a break! ;)

[steve2470]

19. if you wish to write a snail mail letter....

Koch Industries, Inc.
P.O. Box 2256
Wichita, KS 67201-2256


[email protected]

great post !

[Drale]

20. Because if we have some they can't have all

thats what its about making sure they have everything and others and nothing. I bet if you went back into the kock brothers past, there is probably a history of some sort of abuse whether it be mental or physical.

[Old Time Pagan]

33. I agree

I think a good analogy is anorexia. We look at an anorexic individual and we see skin and bones. That same individual looks in the mirror and they see a fat person looking back at them.

We look at the elite 2% who control over 35% of the nation's wealth and we see excess, greed, sociopathy. They look in the mirror and they see someone who can never have enough and no matter how much they accumulate it will never be enough.

These people are literally deranged and I'm not using that term in a derogatory sense. They will never feel satisfaction or peace and we all get to be pawns in their personal psychodrama. The true indictment of our country is that we lionize these individuals and make them role models to emulate and pay homage to.

I'm afraid that says a lot more about us as a collective than it says about them as sick individuals.

[Guilded Lilly]

21. Why? Because some people are simply rotten to the core.

The combination of obscene money, power and control can easily rip the souls
out of individuals. But, no matter how many obscene dollars these humans gather, they are indeed mortal. And their bones will turn to dust. Now, depending on what (if anything) they believe about any after life, they will have to face a different source of power when they pass on. THAT is out of our hands entirely. We can only hope that some kind of deserved, harsh retribution or Karma befalls them.

But to think that they can ever be reached by intelligent discourse or common sense questions or even assumptions that they have a heart...is usually quite futile.

Sadly.

They don't want to hear words, eloquent, patriotic, intelligent, passionate, etc. They just want to control you and make sure their money stays in their pocket, and that your pocket gets very little.

[hfojvt]

30. it's not that simple. See post #22 below.

[Guilded Lilly]

37. I've read your thoughtful post...

and appreciate your sentiments...however I stand by my original post. Giving to charity does not cancel out the harsh, calculated, willfull and corrupt treatment of MILLIONS of others.

You live your life charitably, in total, or the charity is rather shallow and easily bought.

peace,
Lilly

[hfojvt]

44. but it does, perhaps, show that they are not pure evil

that they cannot simply be summed up with this single motivation "They just want to control you and make sure their money stays in their pocket".

I think we all try to get some value for our money. Most of us probably do not give 50% of our income to charity, but then most of us do not have so much to give. Most of us don't like paying extra taxes either. Yes, David and Charles donate money to the other side which then promotes policies that enrich them and harm "us" but I do not know that I would call that corrupt. It's not corrupt when we donate money to our side and promote policies which harm them and enrich us.

If two sides are fighting over pie, I don't necessarily think that one side has all the moral high ground. I don't really want to demonize them, if that's not fair, and I don't know that much about them. I just think we should be united against them.

[hfojvt]

22. the first time I heard of David Koch

was when I was googling my cousin who has the same name. According to one biography, of the other David, he donates half his yearly income to charity.

Of course, I am sure that Americans for the Prosperous, the Cato Institute, and the Heritage Foundation are included in those "charities", but there are probably some things we might consider to be worthwhile causes too. Like this Cancer Center at Johns Hopkins http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/kimmel_cancer_center/our_center/facilities/koch/ and this cancer center at MIT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch_Institute_for_Integrative_Cancer_Research or these, mentioned in wiki

"Koch contributed $7 million to the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) show Nova,<32> and is a contributer to the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C., including a $20 million gift to the American Museum of Natural History, creating the David H. Koch Dinosaur Wing and a contribution of $15 million to the National Museum of Natural History to create the new David H. Koch Hall of Human Origins, which opened on the museum's 100th anniversary of its location on the National Mall on March 17, 2010.<33>

Koch also financed the construction of Deerfield Academy's $68 million Koch Center for mathematics, science and technology,<34> and was named the first and only Lifetime Trustee.<34>

Koch gave $10 million to the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory<35> where he was honored with the Double Helix Medal for Corporate Leadership for supporting research that, "improves the health of people everywhere."" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch#Education

He does give away fairly huge sums of money and wages and environmental compliance are probably already big costs. Here's on thing I thought about wages. I worked at a satellite dish factory that employed about 200 people. Amd I calculated once that if the owner gave everybody a $1 an hour raise that would be a fairly insignificant gain to each worker, a "mere" $38 a week, but it would cost him $400,000 - a decent sized chunk of money. The numbers get even tougher when your company employs 20,000 people or 50,000 people. With 50,000 employees even a 10 cent an hour general raise would cost $10,000,000! And each worker would gain only $4 a week.

I just think there is some danger in demonizing even a Koch brother and in over-simplifying things.

[brendan120678]

26. Yes, he does donate an immense ammount...

to charitable, medical, and educational institutions.
For that, I thank him.

I for one don't think he's entirely a despicable person...he's just obscenely wealthy.

[hedgehog]

35. Two points -

1. It's not as simple as everyone getting a single extra dollar. When middle class people get money, they go out and spend it, which puts money into someone else's pocket. Then that person goes out and spends it, etc. A dollar in Koch's hands just sits there, a dollar in my hands leaves quickly to travel through numerous other hands.

2. Koch donates money to cancer research. He also makes a ton of money selling formaldehyde. Guess what chemical is pervasive in our environment and is suspected of causing cancer? Guess what chemical cancer researchers can't ge any funds to look into?

[hfojvt]

38. I was gonna guess benzene, or asbestos or radon or nicotine

but I suspect that somebody wants me to guess formaldehyde, and I know the last one is wrong anyway. It's the tar, not the nicotine that causes most of the health problems. The nicotine is just the addictive agent.

But dollars never just sit there. As has been demonstrated Koch donates some of his dollars, probably spends others and invests others. Jobs get created by investments too, not just by consumer spending. Construction jobs were created when the cancer centers were built, and jobs were created at Nova or the Smithsonian. And even if Koch puts $500,000 in a bank, that money is presumably loaned out to home buyers, small businesses, car buyers, etc.

Money never really just "sits there" although dollars to the poor and working class are considered more stimulative than those to the upper class.

But if you had 50,000 employees probably nobody would appreciate it if you gave up $10,000,000 to give them all $4 a week raises. "$4? Thank you so much. I can goto the movies. (by myself)"

[hedgehog]

42. "Company Owned By Cancer Research Donor Lobbied Against Designation of Formaldehyde as Carcinogen"

A prominent philanthropist, cancer survivor, and American businessman, David Koch, has given millions <1> to the cause of cancer research, while his company—Koch Industries—has lobbied against formal recognition of formaldehyde as a carcinogen, The New Yorker reported in a piece published today.
Koch sits on the advisory board of the National Cancer Institute—a position he was appointed to in 2004 <1> by President Bush, reported The New Yorker.

The National Cancer Institute published a study in 2009 concluding that formaldehyde causes cancer in humans. Here’s The New Yorker, describing that study’s findings:

The study tracked twenty-five thousand patients for an average of forty years; subjects exposed to higher amounts of formaldehyde had significantly higher rates of leukemia. These results helped lead an expert panel within the National Institutes of Health to conclude that formaldehyde should be categorized as a known carcinogen, and be strictly controlled by the government.

http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/company-owned-by-cancer-research-donor-lobbied-against-designation-of-forma








REGARDING BEING ON A CANCER BOARD AND MANUFACTURING 2.2 BILLION POUNDS of FORMALDEHYDE YEARLY
Mr. Koch serving on the National Cancer Advisory Board has been attacked as a hypocrite, for Koch industries is one of the largest manufacturers of formaldehyde, estimated at 2/2 billion pounds a year and has spent huge amounts of money to lobby legislators attempting to forestall EPA classifying the substance as directly responsible for serious illnesses in children and adults … formaldehyde a known carcinogen dangerous to human beings, particularly putting them at risk for cancers of the blood.

http://themoderatevoice.com/84381/billionaire-koch-brothers-tea-party-david-koch-brings-the-sugar-of-money/

[hfojvt]

48. presumably industries are buying all that formaldehyde as well

for use in making sausages or something, unless it is all going to schools for biology classes.

That his company makes formaldehyde does not change the fact that he donated a couple hundred million to cancer research although the left hand and the right hand do seem to be working against each other. Does that mean he gets no credit for donations he did not have to make? And 2.2 billion pounds seems like a big number, but what percentage is that of all the production/business of Koch Industries? 5%?

[hedgehog]

84. What if the money he donates gives him the power to tell researchers

not to look at formaldehyde? Is he donating money to research of merely making an investment?

[PA Democrat]

65. Bernie Madoff and Ken Lay were also big philanthropists.

These people use philanthropy to mask the amoral means by which they make their money.

Many of those charitable donations are centered around lavish social events for the wealthy elite to show off their latest designer gowns and jewelry.

[bdamomma]

23. greed I hope they choke on it!!!

[radhika]

24. Cuz they just don't LIKE or NEED us! n/t

[LynneSin]

31. They didn't get that wealthy without us

Who is it that does their dirty work so they can get wealthy?

[bongbong]

27. Ted Turner had the answer

Ted Turner had the answer years ago. He understood because he (at the time) was one of the richest guys in America. Basically, it comes down to one tiny thing.

Fat Cat X wants to know that he has more money than Fat Cat Y.

Believe it or not, that's the entirety. Turner even appealed to the Fat Cats to each give a billion to charity (as he did), so they would preserve their relative wealths to each other. None of them did it. UNBELIEVABLY, millions are killed, millions have to suffer pollution, and millions are in agony every day of their lives - so that the egos of a few hundred global Fat Cats can stay happy.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. Yep, I was abou to post this answer

They've actually done studies on this, and people are significantly unhappier with their wealth and income when their peers have more. Jealousy is an incredibly powerful motivator.

[old mark]

28. K&R- I don't think it's really about money-it's about power. ...nt

[craigmatic]

29. Because they're greedy, selfish bastards.

[hedgehog]

36. The answer may be that the Koch brothers themselves can't fathom

a billion dollars. They have no idea how much they have, so they're afraid of losing any of it.

[LynneSin]

41. Geez I'd be happy with 10k in my bank account

I can't even imagine what I would do if there was a Billion but I'd probably give most of it away since there isn't a whole lot I would do with the money for myself.

[LiberalLovinLug]

45. If they ever did open that letter this is where it would go

[rhett o rick]

46. It's not the money, it's the power the money will bring. Greedy for power. nm

[KT2000]

47. Very well said

and just what I have been thinking. The people that are trying to make life hell for most of this country are people who have so much money they don't know what to do with it.
Funding RW organizations and candidates, propaganda to turn people against one another, assuring that cruelty is this nation's policy, turning our environment into a wasteland that cannot support health. is all they can think to do with their wealth.
We are dealing with powerful sociopaths. They should be involuntarily committed for they have already exhibited their intent to harm others.

[glinda]

50. I think we should kick the Kochs out of our Country and take over their facilities and profits.

[girl gone mad]

51. k&r, but they won't listen.

The French figured out how to put a stop to similar madness.

[Billsmile]

54. Their Goal

...is to extract every last cent from anyone who thinks they're greedy.

What gets me is the way these guys get their money: by using government to destroy anything in their path. They turn the instrument meant to serve the public against the public.

I firmly believe that any charitable gestures on their part are merely band-aids on the near fatal wounds they inflict upon the world.

[Art_from_Ark]

56. The French version of stopping one form of madness just led to another form

The madness of the French aristocrats and clergy was replaced by the Reign of Terror, which itself was replaced with Napoleon and the Napoleonic Wars, which ultimately led to the restoration of the Bourbon monarchy. Within a quarter century or so, the revolution had gone full circle.

[paparush]

52. How much is enough? A little bit more...

Which, of course, translates into a little bit less for everyone else.

[sam sarrha]

55. the top 1% richest hold 42% of Americas Financial wealth 6 X more than the bottom 80% with only 7%

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
the top 20% holds 93% of Americas wealth.. and they are using it to speculate and hedge up the price necessities if the under class cost of food, fuel, medical care, education..etc


they believe that 'wealth' is the measure of how god favors a man/corporation, therefore... it is a sin against god to tax a rich man. it is also a sin against god to help a poor man, because god is punishing the poor man with poverty.

in 'Trickle down Economics" what trickles down is not money... it is Gods blessings to the poor for "Submitting" to gods great plan of making the rich richer.. i know this makes no sense, but it is the fundamental dogma of Dominionism.. which has nearly taken over both parties.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/hartmann/10016
"Strauss's students and their students have occupied important positions in the Reagan and Bush administrations and continue to play a significant role within the Republican party. Prominent figures on the American political scene include Reagan's ambassador to Indonesia, Paul Wolfowitz; Caspar Weinberger's former speechwriter, Seth Cropsey; National Endowment for the Humanities Deputy Chairman, John T. Agresto; National Security Council advisor Carnes Lord; Assistant Secretary of State for International Organization Affairs, Alan Keyes; legal scholar and judge Robert Bork...; Justice Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; former Education Department Chief of Staff, William Kristol (later former vice-president Dan Quayle's chief of staff and then the chief pundit and policy maker of the Republican party). Journalists have been fully cognizant of this influx of Straussians into Washington and of the power they have within the Republican party. So much so that the New York Times has dubbed Leo Strauss the godfather of the Republican party's 1994 Contract With America."

http://doggo.tripod.com/doggchrisdomin.html
"snip...
How comforting the Calvinistic idea of a “justified sinner” is when one is utilizing Machiavellian techniques to gain political control of a state. It’s more than comforting; it is a required doctrine for “Christians” who believe they must use evil to bring about good. It justifies lying, murder, fraud and all other criminal acts without the fuss of having to deal with guilt feelings or to feel remorse for the lives lost through executions, military actions, or assassinations.

Leo Strauss was born in 1899 and died in 1973. ... He is most famous for resuscitating Machiavelli and introducing his principles as the guiding philosophy of the neo-conservative movement. ... More than any other man, Strauss breathed upon conservatism, inspiring it to rise from its atrophied condition and its natural dislike of change and to embrace an unbounded new political ideology that rides on the back of a revolutionary steed, hailing even radical change; hence the name Neo-Conservatives.

Significantly, Dominionism is a form of Social Darwinism.<48> It inherently includes the religious belief that wealth-power is a sign of God’s election. That is, out of the masses of people and the multitude of nations, wealth, in and of itself, is thought to indicate God’s approval on men and nations whereas poverty and sickness reflect God’s disapproval.

(It was not until I read this article that I realized that this is a fundamental tenet of Dominionists.

Worldly wealth and power are signs of God's favor -- to attempt to limit or decrease one's wealth and power is to disrespect God.

On the contrary, God's elect on Earth are called upon to increase their wealth and power.

It is not sufficient for a man to be a millionaire, or for a country to have sovereignty within its borders -- a man must strive to increase his wealth as much as possible, and a Dominionist government's behavior toward its neighbors must be "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Furthermore, any attempt to decrease a person's or a country's wealth and power -- to take from the rich to give to the poor, to reduce military spending and power -- is a direct attack on God.)

If “Secular Humanists are the greatest threat to Christianity the world has ever known,” as theologian Francis Schaeffer claimed, then who are the Humanists? According to Dominionists, humanists are the folks who allow or encourage licentious behavior in America. They are the undisciplined revelers.

Put all the enemies of the Dominionists together, boil them down to liquid and bake them into the one single most highly derided and contaminated individual known to man, and you will have before you an image of the quintessential “liberal” -- one of those folks who wants to give liberally to the poor and needy -- who desires the welfare and happiness of all Americans -- who insists on safety regulations for your protection and who desires the preservation of your values -- those damnable people are the folks that must be reduced to powerlessness -- or worse: extinction.

What would a “reconstructed” America look like under the Dominionists? K.L. Gentry, a Dominionist himself, suggests the following “elements of a theonomic approach to civic order,” which I strongly suggest should be compared to the Texas GOP platform of 2002, which reveals that we are not just talking about imaginary ideas but some things are already proposed on Republican agendas.<60> Dominionism’s concept of government according to Gentry is as follows:

“1. It obligates government to maintain just monetary policies ... fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and deficit spending.

“2. It provides a moral basis for elective government officials. ...

“3. It forbids undue, abusive taxation of the rich. ...

“4. It calls for the abolishing of the prison system and establishing a system of just restitution. *...

“5. A theonomic approach also forbids the release, pardoning, and paroling of murderers by requiring their execution. ...

“6. It forbids industrial pollution that destroys the value of property. ...

“7. It punishes malicious, frivolous malpractice suits. ...

“8. It forbids abortion rights. ... Abortion is not only a sin, but a crime, and, indeed, a capital crime.”<61>
. . .

* Gary North describes the ‘just restitution’ system of the bible, which happens to reinstitute slavery,
like this:

“At the other end of the curve, the poor man who steals is eventually caught and sold into bondage under a successful person. His victim receives payment; he receives training; his buyer receives a stream of labor services. If the servant is successful and buys his way out of bondage, he re-enters society as a disciplined man, and presumably a self-disciplined man. He begins to accumulate wealth.” ...snip"

i feel all elected and appointed governmental people should have to sign a "Non-Dommionist adherence statement" because they cant protect or preserve the Constitution if thallegianceance is to only making rich people richer and destroying modern civilization so gods utopia can rise out of the ashes

the best book on the subject ... Abraham Vereide Nazi Christianity.. is
http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-Heart-American/dp/0060560053/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Fundamentalist-Threat-American-Democracy/dp/0316091073/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

[sam sarrha]

57. people like the Koch's are Psychotic Narcissist OCD wealth and Power Hoarders..they are mentally ill

when they personally block things like health care, the lack of which causes 40,000 people to die needlessly they become Mass Murderers. their Dogma allows them to view the poor as sub human and cursed by god.. so killing 10's of thousands gets them points from god tword heaven.

see post #55

[TygrBright]

58. Silly librul.... They NEED more billions! Need, dammit!! NEEEEEEEEEEED! n/t

[toddwv]

60. Because they're douchebags.

'Nuff said.

[Kablooie]

61. What you don't understand is that it's not about the money...

it's about them feeling good about themselves.

They have ever increasing power over everyone else in the country and that makes them feel top of the world!

To stop grabbing more power would make them dissatisfied (heaven forbid!) so they keep clutching for more.

The fact that it destroys other people's lives isn't *their* problem so they sleep easily knowing that they are two of the most wonderful, clever men in the world.

[Beam Me Up]

62. "The rich want only one thing: everything." -- Michael Parenti n/t

[RagAss]

64. Stop thinking of them as Human. Think Reptiles !

[we can do it]

66. Thank YOU!

[patrice]

68. My theory: The Derivative Crash in 2008 has put some stress on the good-ol'-boy network, not

so much at Koch's level, but amongst the 1st lieutenants and chief enablers, holes have been torn in their safety net, someones are going to have to go and the someones who are the most likely candidates for being edged out are, like I said not the top, but at a level in the networks in which they now know all or most of the skeletons in the closets, ERGO these expendable princelings NEED somewhere to go to, "new" entrepreneurial venues . . . Enter Privatization of state and federally provided services.

Because of extreme internal financial pressures, caused in this phase of the development of the transnational corporations who own this country by the Derivative Crash of 2008, golden parachutes for high level functionaries, whom the Koch bros et al DO NOT want angry at them, consist of a push to capitalize on long-standing inve$$$$tment$$$$$ in the political push to privatize state & federal services, which move to privatize also includes, please recall, faith-based initiatives.

They're trying to create new entrepreneurial territory to offer certain sensitive functionaries in their business networks as a bribe in exchange for squeezing them out of their current positions in TransNatCo preparatory for the next version of that network, i.e. the re-jiggered, post 2008 Derivative Crash, version of the hegemony that owns the U.S.

Most of the people responsible for making this happen have enough money. It's only secondarily about greed. It's primarily about protecting themselves from some of their own folks who are getting forced out of the nest (because of the Derivative Crash), by creating a fertile environment for them in privatization, and just oh so co-incidentally, ALSO acquiring a strangle hold, by means of controlling those previously state provided services, on the people and politics of this country.

[patrice]

69. IOW: It's not about greed. It's about certain kinds of jobs, for certain very particular kinds of

persons.

[Raster]

70. The damage the Koch brothers do will haunt this country for many years after they're dead.

Years. I don't believe in hell, but for the Koch brothers, I am willing to make an exception.

[SnakeEyes]

71. All their philanthropic donations

keep me from vilifying these guys, as others have. I read they give money to support ballet (wtf?) so they can't be all that bad LOL.

In addition to that, the only similarities these guys have with the tea party is capitalist in nature and lower taxation. They support drug decriminalization, military spending cuts, repealing the Patriot Act, stem cell research and gay marriage. Also opposed the Iraq war.

[LynneSin]

74. I love the ballet but who benefits from it? Surely not the poor and working classes

these men are vile

[PA Democrat]

76. Yes, they are vile. Much of their philanthropy centers around lavish social events

covered in the society pages. It is a nice way for them to reassure themselves that they can't be such horrible people, because look at us, we give to charity!

Ignore our destruction to the environment, ignore our effort to undermine access to affordable health care, ignore the financial crisis we created with our reckless greed, ignore the jobs we shipped overseas, ignore our tax evasion. Look at the pictures of our generosity, look at my name on that building.

[LynneSin]

79. And this is not a knock on Ballet. If this is what they want to support they can do good with it

For a parent who has little money, sending their child to ballet classes is out of their reaches. Why not create a fund that would provide scholarships to needy girls and boys who would like to pursue the art of Ballet.

See now we do good instead of greed.

[SnakeEyes]

81. well damn you're right, who benefits from all the arts?

The poor and working classes don't. Let's just defund them too!

:eyes:

[RandomKoolzip]

89. The Ballet does not equal "the arts."

If the Kochs gave a shit about "the arts," why not fund arts programs in inner-city schools? Why not fight to keep funding for NPR and PBS, which regularly feature arts-oriented programming? Why not fund public libraries wherein one can educate oneself about the arts? Why not fund programs to get children interested in classical music again? They only fund the ballet (and only CERTAIN ballet companies) becuase they need a social /arena they know the poor can't get into because of prohibitive ticket prices.

[SnakeEyes]

93. you missed the point

previous post I was replying to suggested that because ballet doesn't benefit the poor that their contributions to ballet are worthless. I was taking their silly argument (only said to attack the Kochs) further.

But I get what your saying, one must give to everything (or at least in the ways you approve/suggest) in order to "give a shit about the arts". Sure does make it easy to argue a point or vilify someone when you get to always set the conditions and requirements.

As for the Kochs, some of what you've stated they do. For example, the Kochs support PBS. They have made numerous donations over the years to PBS, including $7M directly to NOVA.

They've given $20M to the ACLU as part of their fight against the Patriot Act.

Evil.

[PA Democrat]

94. No, YOU missed the point. Yes, the Kochs make donations to the arts

and to various charities, and make sure that the public is well-informed of their generosity. Open the society pages and you will see David Koch and his wife at various charity functions being lauded for their donations. It is the price of entry into a polite society for the wealthy elite.

But behind the scenes, they fund the tea party movement to derail health care legislation. Thousands will continue to die for lack of health insurance. THAT is evil.

They fund anti-global warming pseudoscience putting our entire planet at risk. THAT is evil.

Public philanthropy does not negate the widespread suffering resulting from private business tactics based upon unadulterated greed.

[Raine]

72. Good post! I honestly think there is something mentally

seriously wrong with them. I wonder about their background and how they were brought up. Were they shipped off to boarding school. Ignored by their parents and now they feel they have to surpass their daddy with material goods to gain parental approval. If they weren't so destructive to so many people I would actually feel sorry for them. These brothers might as well be poor because they are so miserable, I know people with a fraction of what they have that are ... HAPPY.

[newportdadde]

75. Once you have won the game you need a new game, ala Gates and education.

This is their pet project for engineering society.

[AllyCat]

77. I think Thom Hartmann hit the nail on the head: They have OCD

Obsessive compulsive disorder, but they aren't hand washers. They are obsessed with obtaining money.

[jpljr77]

80. Moreover: Your BILLIONS aren't even "yours." You did not earn them.

Your father left you the company he built on HIS innovation. And the additional growth your company has experienced has been due to the acquisition of other companies. In short, YOU'RE RICH DUE TO OTHERS' INNOVATIONS, jackasses.

[Moostache]

82. They refuse to recognize that truth...

For these people of inherited wealth, who used that advantage of money and security to buy, bribe and distort this nation and its government, they do not recognize that standing on third base is NOT indicative of having hit a triple!

Their clown prince was president for two stolen terms and for the last 30 years of history, their narrative has held sway.

No more.

The times are changing once again.

The youth are beginning to wake up and in many place stand up and in the most encouraging places take charge - those who face the brunt of the consequences of the choices made by the Kochs and their ilk - a planet ravaged of its resources and splendor, an economy in total imbalance and disarray, a society set against itself in favor of fringe issues that do not directly impact their lives yet inflame their passions.

If it comes down to time to choose sides and fight, I know damn well where I will stand. The only question that remains is how many of the other 99.99% of the country is going to wake up and join in the fight as well?

[eleny]

83. This is one example of why I love to read your postings, gal!

You're the salt of the earth and damn but you can write!

[OwnedByFerrets]

86. Not about money, its about POWER

[tpsbmam]

87. Damn! Too late to rec! Oh well, a kick at least for a GREAT letter!!! nt

[I Have A Dream]

88. If others have money, they can't be controlled nearly as easily through fear.

End. of. story.

:(

[Quantess]

92. Desperate people are easier to enslave.

That's one reason.