I fear that in end, they are winning.

[edhopper]

I am gladdened by the push back in WI. But I worry that Walker's bill will still be passed.
But either way, it is only a reprieve from the larger onslaught. We suffered from 30 years of a Republican attack on the middle class, culminating with the catastrophic policies of GWB. But when the Dems won an overwhelming majority they could not undo anything. (they did not really try). What they did was a spit in the ocean. The did not put back any real financial regulation, hell, they couldn't even stop the grossly unfair and budget busting tax cuts.
And now all these Repuke Governors and State Houses are in an all out attack on the middle class. Sure some of the more outlandish proposals might be stopped. But it's still; strip the workers of rights, get rid of government services and cut taxes for the wealthy.
We are still going backwards.
I fear they will win the Senate in 2012 and continue the assault. I don't trust the American voter to realize what is happening. It took them exactly two years to forget what GWB and the GOP Congress put us through.

[Me.]

1. So You've Thrown In The Towel Already?

[still_one]

2. It's not throwing in the towel, but until the country actual votes or recalls these bastards out, it

will be next to impossible to win

raygun ended up firing the air traffic controllers, and that is what this prick is going to try I suspect with the unions

It is going to be a very tough time unless they can impeach the govenor

[Bluzmann57]

4. A friend of mine lives in Wisconsin

He also happens to be a teacher in a public school system up there and has been a point man in the teachers struggle. Anyway, he told me that after one year, there can be a recall but not until then. That's Wisconsin law.

[HughBeaumont]

11. At least they got that.

Ohio has no recall law when it comes to governmental officials. So we're stuck with Kasich the Fascist for the next four years (and, judging by the brain surgeon-intellect of Ohio's voters, possibly MORE).

[still_one]

28. Enough people are starting to get directly affected by republican policies, and now are realizing it

I am afraid there will be more pain, but there is hope when the next elections come up

[still_one]

27. and that unfortunately is the sad reality. I am not saying labor should not fight, but the politics

are stacked up against them. Will they remember this in a year?

That will be the real test

[Me.]

31. Starting Out With A Negative Head-set Is Counter-Productive

And exactly the reaction the fear mongers want you to have

[defendandprotect]

47. Are the voters really your enemy ... or is it the voting computers ... !!??

Don't join you in believing that Americans are stupid enough to vote for fascists --

[edhopper]

8. Pointing out the reality of the situation

is not "throwing in the towel." I support the fight, at least to stop as much further harm as possible.
But show me where I am wrong about what I described as has happened?

[defendandprotect]

48. It's a lot of FEAR-based thinking which does nothing to solve anything ... but spread fear!!

[edhopper]

57. Please point out where I got something wrong?

Where have progressives rolled back the GOP assault? Tax cuts,? Corporate welfare? Unions?
Should we all hold hands and sing Kum-Bai-Ya and pretend this isn't happening.
If you aren't afraid of what is happening in this country, you aren't paying attention.

[deacon]

3. It's a war of attrition. They MUST lose. n/t

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. They forgot and now blame Obama and the Democrats for every bit of ...

...but in fact the whole fucking business started with Reagan. Trickle down economics don't work. The rich just put the money in their bank account and say they're making more profits. Pisses me off.
Duckie

[still_one]

29. Yes it did, though nixon and his Southern strategy setup the landscape for this to occur /nt

[originalpckelly]

7. 1. We shall overcome.

2. It will not be like Egypt, but this wolf in sheep's clothing will be found out eventually. This nation is not a democracy, it is an oligarchy. A bunch of fucking rich people own the rest of us. They own our government, and they seem to be hell bent on crapping on the rest of us, not content with the fact that they own nearly everything.

3. We must be peaceful.

4. We must respect the minority's rights.

5. We must ensure the regularity of due process, and the rule of law. This government has a very selective definition of laws, they apply to you and I and not to it. That must change.

[Sherman A1]

9. Perhaps

but, even if so, there is no reason to go quietly into the night.

[edhopper]

15. Did I say we should give up?

No I am just stating how I see things.
I think it is wrong to just keep claiming we are winning the battle, as many on these boards often do, and ignore the reality of the situation.

[RandomThoughts]

10. I have not forgotten.

[woodsprite]

12. I think it seems we're going backwards even faster now.

It seems we're screaming "Look at what they're doing to all of US" meaning all of us below millionaire level, and nobody is listening. Heck, even half the population that qualifies as "US" isn't listening or caring. I don't understand it. Are they brain dead, self-centered, lazy, etc?

[Stuckinthebush]

13. Sadly, I think they will

They will lose in Wisconsin but the attacks will continue. Slowly the rights of workers and protections for the middle class will be erroded. Why? Because "they" have money and "we" don't. It is clear that most politicians are in bed with the corporations. Why would we think differently? That is how they were elected - with corporate money. It amazes me that enough Americans are convinced that protecting the corporate profits at all costs is good for our country.

As long as corporations are allowed to pump as much money as they wish into the political system then the people will suffer.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. Thhhhppptttttt!!!!!

The most educated response I can muster. And unrec. for defeatism. Social change doesn't happen overnight nor does it come without sacrifice.

[edhopper]

16. And going out with blinders on

and not being realistic about what is happening is a recipe for defeat.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

18. I don't trust the American voter to realize what is happening. LOL

Bush once had a +90% approval rating. What does that tell ya? Think it bodes well for us?

:scared:

Don

[defendandprotect]

46. I don't trust the GOP voting computers which have been with us since the late 1960's ....

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey -- !!

Do you believe the 2000 Bush "win" also ?

Do you actually believe that Bush ever had a 90% rating--???


:eyes:



Also keep in mind the LARGE computers used by MSM began coming in during the mid-1960's --

they gave them new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections -- something we saw reversed in

2000!!

See: Votescam -- The Stealing of America --

An investigation by two Florida journalists in the late 1960's into the very strange

results coming from computer voting -- and unverifiable.

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[Whapiti]

19. I think you are right,

Walkers bill will be passed in some form. I caught just the end of a conversation on the radio this morning, and the " concession" that was being discussed was to increase worker contributions, but with collective bargaining being suspended for only two years. Didn't catch enough to know how much was true, or even possible but it sure had the tone of the eventual loss in workers rights being the accepted inevitability.

[swilton]

20. I share your pessimism

I mean it's not like there are any Democratic leaders out on the front lines in Wisconsin. Yes, the Republicans are the figure heads in the corporate-friendly policies being enacted at state governments. But they can afford to take the heat and play the part of the bullies because there is no counter-weight by any Democratic Party leadership. There is a vacuum in political opposition and pushback. Look at the welcome that Jessee Jackson is getting.

Paul Jay more/less forecast this on the eve of the 2010 election when he noted six ways that the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party had allowed the Republican Party to rebrand itself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

1. Allowed Republicans to rebrand themselves as populists
2. Old mindset in US foreign policy
3. Not defending the public option for health care reform
4. Not Using the Auto Bailout to Build A Green Economy
5. Bailing Out Bankers and not the Banking System
6. Not investigating Bush and Cheney

The failure of the Democratic Party to show leadership in Wisconsin ranks would contribute to his argument by illustrating point #1.

[coalition_unwilling]

49. #6 should be #1, imho. Bush and Cheney have gotten away with

authorizing torture, for God's sake.

[AsahinaKimi]

21. Question!

I just listened to the phone conversation with the "bogus" David Koch, and Walkers plans revealed, does anyone have an idea as to whether or not this phone conversation will do any good in bringing the Governor down?

He does not seem the type who would care if this got out, or even embarrassed. Its not like hes posing with his shirt off in front of a mirror, if you know what I mean. Is this audio something that will be powerful enough to bring him down? Or will he just shake it off and keep up the pressure to pass the damn bill???

Thanks for your thoughts.

[swilton]

22. There is a process for recall

But it can't be initiated until 2012.

[xchrom]

23. he didn't seem to suggest anything illegal. tasteless and brutally stubborn and

willing to go the wall to get what he wants -- yes.

the people have to have more will power than he does.

[aquart]

43. So you're unfamiliar with WI law?

Because I heard that an ethics investigation will be requested today.

[Greybnk48]

24. We've already won. Turn off the network T.V.

and read on line what's happening across the country. People are aware and angry...we already won. No matter what happens here in WI, the majority here in this State are against Walker and the Tea Baggers two months into his regime. We already won. There are still assholes here, but they are in the minority.

Hopefully we'll recall some of the Repug Legislators and replace them with Dems to stop his shit.

[edhopper]

30. We haven't won anything.

Winning would be stopping the Republican attack on the middle class and poor AND getting back the progressive policies that have been undermined since Regan.
Where is that happening?

[DavidDvorkin]

25. I'm afraid you may be right

I try to be hopeful, but as you pointed out, the voters have a short memory. They're also eternally responsive to button-pushing slogans.

[displacedvermoter]

26. It took them exactly two years to forget

because the President and the leaders of the Democratic party said to forget about it and move forward!!!

Jeeeezus, people!

[TwentyFive]

32. With Democrats like we have - how can Republicans not win?

Scott Walker is 100% uncompromising.

He will win most (if not all) of everything he wants. The corporate media will hail him as a strong leader who 'took on the special interests' and won. With this publicity, Walker is almost a certainty to be the VP candidate in 2012.

Meanwhile, Democrats compromise....compromise...compromise, which demoralizes the base and emboldens our enemies, and makes the middle view him as weak.

We don't lose because of our ideas...we lose because Democratic leaders compromise. If we win, we need to force our candidates to sign pledges saying they will not compromise on the very important issues. Republicans do this all the time. It's hokey, but it works.

[Bake]

33. I think -- I **HOPE** --this is the tipping point

And that America -- Americans -- finally wake up and throw the bastards out once and for all.

Bake

[bobbolink]

35. Nothing will "tip" unless you begin to care about poor people.

You could start with protesting the cuts.

[Bake]

36. Quite true.

Quite true.

Bake

[bobbolink]

38. So does that mean you will begin organizing people to protest?

That would be a welcome start.

Thank you.

[edhopper]

40. The is the second time you have tried to hijack this thread.

What makes you think those on DU do not care about poor people.
What do you think the push behind Universal Health care is about (to name one example)

[bobbolink]

44. I see. We are told to vote our own interests, but if we TALK about them, then we are "hijacking"

your thread.

If "progressives" actually made poverty a priority, there would be NO NEED to hijack anything, would there?

Look at your language, and think about how that comes across to those who are ignored. Just think about it from the human standpoint.

[deutsey]

34. I'm listening to David McNally talking about how what happened in N. Africa

didn't just happen as a single, all-defining event. He also says the same thing about what happened in the '30s here in America.

What happened in Egypt was the result of a few years of struggle in which many people were beaten and arrested. But they kept fighting and organizing.

If Wisconsin isn't the tipping point we're hoping for here, maybe it's the beginning of waking people up and energizing them.

(David McNally, btw, is a Professor of Political Science at York University, Toronto. His new book Global Slump "analyzes the global financial meltdown as the first systemic crisis of the neoliberal stage of capitalism. It argues that – far from having ended – the crisis has ushered in a whole period of worldwide economic and political turbulence. In developing an account of the crisis as rooted in fundamental features of capitalism, Global Slump challenges the view that its source lies in financial deregulation...At the same time, Global Slump also traces new patterns of social and political resistance – from housing activism and education struggles, to mass strikes and protests in Martinique, Guadeloupe, France and Puerto Rico – as indicators of the potential for building anti-capitalist opposition to the damage that neoliberal capitalism is inflicting on the lives of millions.")
https://secure.pmpress.org/index.php?l=product_detail&p=271

[edhopper]

56. Please re-read my OP

How is the GOP attack on workers rights, cutting government services and giving the wealthy a giant tax cut, NOT be about the poor as well as the middle class.
If there is another area you want to discuss, please start your own thread.
If you think the Democratic agenda should ONLY be about the poor, fine, start a thread about it.
That is not what this thread is about.
It's about the failure of progressives to turn back any of the Right's agenda, and specifically, as evidenced in WI, an all out attack on Unions and the middle class.

[deutsey]

58. Whatever.

Go cry in your coffee.

[edhopper]

60. I was replying to bobolink

not you duetsey. I thought your post was good.
The responses to replies sometimes end in strange orders.

[Evoman]

37. Yeah, maybe. For how long though? 50, 100, 200, 1000 years?

These things are cyclical. Eventually, their decendants will have their head on pikes.

[JDPriestly]

39. We have to have solidarity in the union movement.

And unions have to broaden their base. People who work in small businesses should have some sort of organizations they can join that represent their broader economic interests and work with the union movement but aren't really unions. In a law office, for example, the secretaries are too few and too easily replaced to negotiate with their bosses. But labor unions need to organize them in some way too.

Also, temp workers need a to be organized as do independent contractors.

Very small businesses like independent contractors and lower level employees of real estate offices, etc. do not identify with the labor unions movement. They don't understand how that movement serves them.

American unions have, until now, been seen as focusing on representing the interests of their specific members. That was a mistake. And union leaders need to change focus. We are all in this together.

[aquart]

41. Thank you for your concern.

[RegieRocker]

42. All I have is hope. I understand.

[defendandprotect]

45. This is the beginning of the fight-back ... are we throwing in the towel already?

Granted -- there is one bit of right wing destruction we can't reverse --

can't make better, imo -- Global Warming.

Mother Nature will be playing the final cards --

but we have a lot of work to do in bringing down those who have done this in the

suicidal pursuit of capitalism and dollar bills and power over others!!

That criminal activity we call capitalism should be ended!!

[Initech]

51. Begun, the Econ wars have.

[defendandprotect]

52. Economic war on the general public and the commonwealth began ...

in my estimation ... as soon as the Constitution was signed!!

They got their's early -- and often!!

[Initech]

54. True, but we didn't have Twitter, Facebook, and DU in the 1700's.

[defendandprotect]

55. Glad to have them now -- and hope we keep 'em!

But, actually have to fess up that I don't "twitter" or do F/B!!!

But, of course, have been very intent on following Egyptians and Lybians on

Catherina's wonderful OPs based on retweets!!


:)

[mmonk]

50. We stand alone but we stand strong.

Nothing's over until we say it's over.

[steelmania75]

53. I disagree, the Teabaggers had their time, now the Republicans are going to shut down the government

and look like partisans rather than compromisers to voters. Recently, with the union protests in Wisconsin(we know how that state will vote in 2 years) and DOMA being declared unconstitutional, it's been a great week for the liberal cause, and I think this momentum will build up and continue towards the next election.

[edhopper]

59. One would hope

But going back to my OP. It would be hard to find a more disastrous period for a governing party than the first 8 years this Century. One criminal War and one mismanaged, the slowest growth and biggest downturn since WWII, the complete ineptitude while a major city dies. And yet it took the American voter exactly two years to forget all that and blame the Dems.
Between corporate cash and the media's unwillingness to report what is true and what is a lie, I don't see voters figuring it out.