I HAVE MARCHED WITH HIM SIDE BY SIDE: Our hero Protester Ray McGovern Is Bloodied

[Mira]

Hillary Clinton Talks Freedom as Protester Ray McGovern Is Bloodied
The Source:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/149951/hillary_clinton_talks_freedom_as_protester_ray_mcgovern_is_bloodied

Feb.17, 2011

Clinton's talk, which emphasized the need to protect basic freedoms, included her observation that "The rights of individuals to express their views freely… are universal."

February 17, 2011    
 
 Are you as shocked as I am that even Donald Rumsfeld turns out to be a better supporter of free speech than Hillary Clinton?

At least the lying SOB former Secretary of Defense didn’t stand by and do nothing as his critics were beaten, arrested and taken away in chains!

But that’s what our current Secretary of State did when peace activist, veteran Army officer and onetime C.I.A. analyst Ray McGovern protested silently while she lectured the rest of the world about freedom this week at George Washington University.

Clinton’s talk, which emphasized the need to protect basic freedoms, included her observation that “The rights of individuals to express their views freely… are universal.”

But even as she condemned other governments for arresting protesters and inhibiting free expression, Clinton demonstrated her own hypocrisy and profound disregard for those rights by saying and doing nothing while the 71 year old protester was grabbed by campus police, pulled to the ground, and dragged out of the auditorium. McGovern remained silent until just before he was pulled through the auditorium doors; then, bloodied, bruised & arrested, he screamed, “This is America?”

[Arugula Latte]

1. Things are becoming more and more Orwellian at a frightening pace.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Jesus - they roughed up Ray McGovern????

:wtf::grr::grr::grr:

One is reminded of how Ahmedinejad praised the Egypitan protesters in one breath and ordered the detention of his own citizens in another.:mad:

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Vile. I'm sorry, this is not a Democratic administration.

We need to elect a Democratic administration.

[DURHAM D]

4. Hillary Clinton is absolutely the worst human being in the history of the world.

Why doesn't she know everyone who shows up at her speeches?

Why doesn't she carry a remote control device that turns off security?

Why doesn't she turn over the podium to every disruptor that shows up at one of her speeches even though attendees wanted to hear from her?

She is AWFUL. Just AWFUL.

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

6. Maybe she should listen to her own speeches.

And shame on anyone who tries to rationalize this.

[DURHAM D]

9. You actually think you are in a position to shame me?

Really...?

[EFerrari]

69. You are justifying the beating of a seventy year old man.

How you deal with that in the privacy of your mind is your business.

[Mira]

7. Did you read the words of the report? Or was clever sarcasm just knee jerk?

Ray McGovern is a hero. Our hero. THIS SHOULD NEVER have happened.
He and I marched side by side for about an hour against Bush war policies, in Fayetteville, NC
I learned a lot in that hour, because I mostly kept my mouth shut and my ears open.

Your response is offensive to me.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

27. Where and how was he "beaten and dragged off in chains"? I can't find that part

[JoePhilly]

13. Hillary has a secret amry of University Police ... we all know that ...

And so when she speaks, she has a button that she can press, so that the University Police at any location, can beat the crap out of anyone she wants.

You can see it in the video ... how she directed the attack ... but you have to watch closely.

If she was SMART, being the evil bitch that she is, and wanting to stifle all opposing voices, as she is want to do ... well, this very well known guy would have been stopped OUTSIDE before he could protest at all.

Hillary is SLIPPING!!! Her evil minions really screwed THAT up. DOPES!!!

:sarcasm:

[frylock]

17. at leaast rumsfeld had the common decency to let mcgovern exercise his protest..

donald FUCKING rumsfeld. this place is a fucking joke anymore.

[JoePhilly]

41. Now Rummy was there??

Oh, I get it ... at some other time, the same guy did something and Rummy didn't call in the University Police as Hillary clearly must have done.

Yea, that's what happened.

You are correct about the "joke" ... you just seem to be on the other side of it ... the side "knee jerking" itself into a frenzy ever 10 minutes.

[frylock]

61. check the vid of a smirking clinton as ray is led away..

and yeah, we should never look to the past. win the future!

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/02/16-3

[PBS Poll-435]

19. And she buys them suits! Really!

:shrug:

[dionysus]

25. you're bad. and i had brought cupcakes for this thread...

:cry:

[PBS Poll-435]

32. Pantsuits, even!

:cry:

[dionysus]

42. well you didn't bring any beer to the thread, and the cupcakes were stale anyways, so i'm outta here

:D

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chill_wind]

5. Two sets of iron handcuffs.

Do campus police wear suits?

"They grabbed me and the shock wore off. There was a real struggle. I shouted, 'This is America.' Then I said, 'Who are you?' This is a mystery to me. Who were they? The guy in the suit was the one who did the damage. He was brutal."

"They took me outside, put two sets of iron handcuffs that pierced my wrists. The bleeding went all over my pants. One guy said, "I pricked my finger" like it was his blood."

"I was bleeding in the car so I said 'I think you need to put some gauze on me.' They handed me to the DC police and they told I was being charged with disorderly conduct. I was booked, fingerprinted, mug shot taken. They put me in a little cell -- must be the same size as Bradley Manning's-- about six by four feet."

"It was about three hours that they held me until they let me out. I had to take a cab to the hospital where they x-ray'd me, treated me and dressed my wounds. Then the doctors told me that since this was an assault on me, I had to inform the police about who had assaulted me. A little humor helped then."

Ray compared this incident to his earlier questioning of Donald Rumsfeld, an incident in which Ray did not stand in silent protest but rather waited for his turn at the microphone and did something U.S. journalists tend not to: asked uncomfortable questions:

http://warisacrime.org/content/hillary-talks-about-tolerating-free-expression-police-front-her-brutalize-ray-mcgovern-turni

(italics mine for the irony)

[sabrina 1]

65. That was one of the best moments for the people, during the

awful Bush years. Rumsfeld stopped security from hauling him off and engaged him in conversation. McGovern was incredible, he was cool but determined. For the first time, someone actually asked Rumsfeld the questions the media should have asked. But Rummy gets some of the only credit I would ever give him for not stopping the conversation even though it was not going well for him.

I remember how excited we were. Sad really that one man's conversation with one of the war criminals asking the right questions, created such a stir. But that's how bad things were back then.

Ray McGovern is a hero. Hillary Clinton owes him an apology. But she will not do it.

[chill_wind]

8. America. Dragging off our truth tellers and intellectuals one by one. The frail old men first.

Daniel Ellsberg in December. (79 years old).





I still can't get that one out of my brain.

[upi402]

11. this

:patriot:

[Ignis]

12. Clinton said, "The rights of individuals to express their views freely...are universal."

...Unless you're blocking the cameras for her big speech on free speech, apparently.

[kentuck]

14. Damn!

Wake me up when it's over.

[upi402]

15. Didn't we say that

when Bush was large & in-charge?

[FiveGoodMen]

36. He still is

He's just got a new face and better vocabulary.

[PBS Poll-435]

18. I think Hillary tasered Mr. McGovern too much. Excessive force.

She also should not have threaten to shank him.

[upi402]

20. tacit approval

is approval, especially when you're in her position


Do you defend this? I don't understand.

[PBS Poll-435]

23. I do not approve of treating an elderly man badly.

However, I have both a difficult time believing that he was roughed-up in the manner described with so many witnesses and that it was under the the direction of the Secretary of State.

[Ignis]

30. He was "dragged to the ground." Isn't that enough for you?

Fortunately, video and stills are available to decide for oneself exactly how much violence against an elderly, peaceful protester is acceptable during a talk lauding free speech.

[upi402]

44. It was her tacit approval, her silence while it happened

And the stark hypocrisy. Nobody said she directed it to occur, to my knowledge.

[frylock]

62. clearly you do approve as you have been working overtime..

to convince people this is no big. don't you just love clinton's smirk?

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/02/16-3

[frylock]

22. laugh it up..

here's your girl with a direct view of the ceremony.

[PBS Poll-435]

24. Why are so few looking backward in your photo?

I see about 3 or 4.

[Mira]

29. If you saw a definite five looking back would it give you empathy and pause? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

31. It would give more preference to the claims made of a spectacle. nt

[Mira]

34. It would give me huge pause to see this and I would get involved by protesting his treatment

even if I did not know him. Even if I were all alone in turning my head.

[PBS Poll-435]

35. You are missing the point

The story doesn't add up.

It reeks of paranoia mixed with a little bit of dementia. If this famous, elderly man was being abused at a forum, don't you think more people would be looking?

[EFerrari]

38. What reeks of dementia is the attempt to spin video, photographic

and first hand account evidence into a smear on Ray.

[uppityperson]

45. I see no one, demented or not, trying to smear Ray. We are protesting the hyperbolic

bloodied brutalized chained.

Who here is trying to smear Ray? Please show me a link. Thank you.

[frylock]

57. It reeks of paranoia mixed with a little bit of dementia.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=441461&mesg_id=443184

[EFerrari]

71. The post I responded to absolutely tries to smear Ray. n/t

[Mira]

39. What does the photo of him being manhandled look like to you? He was utterly silent

until they dragged him out the door - and the action was near the flags up front. They DID NOT KNOW/
though we know now and are splitting hairs

[PBS Poll-435]

40. Again. The story does not add up. But believe what you want to believe.

I find it very difficult (read: impossible) that if what actually happened, happened then there would be a larger response from the auditorium.

[Mira]

43. You are chosing to disbelieve your lying eyes. OK THEN - I bow out.

[frylock]

55. there's no getting through to people like this..

they're so fucking scared to have their precious democratic party look bad that they'll disavow photographic evidence.

[frylock]

59. get yourself a calculator..

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/02/16-3

[frylock]

56. how many would it take to satisfy you?

i would imagine many people turned right back around as the spectacle was probably not comfortable to witness.

[PBS Poll-435]

64. Typically if there is a scene in a crowded room, people turn around

:shrug:

[frylock]

66. they did..

typically when confronted with video and photographic evidence, most people would be smart enough to drop their lame-ass argument.

[dixiegrrrrl]

21. For the police to be that forcefully intimidating tells us their masters are afraid.

Ty for posting this, Mira.

[uppityperson]

26. I am torn. Unrec for hyperbole or rec for Ray and because Hillary sucks?

Unrec for hyperbole and because Clinton may not have known what was going on when this happened. Unrec for hyperbole because if I hold the arm of an older person and they twist it can bruise them yet I haven't beaten him. Unrec because skin tears in older people can happen from rubbing them on something, not just from getting "beaten".

Unrec for hyperbole and hoping Ray is ok.

[sufrommich]

28. "Ray McGovern Is Bloodied"

No,he's not. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

33. But he was brutalized, beaten and dragged off in chains, right?

I know, it is quite something. Yes, he was arrested. Yes, he appears to have bruises on his arms, and a piece of gauze. But bloodied, brutalized, dragged off in chains? Hyperbole. And it really isn't necessary.

[EFerrari]

37. Yes, he was.

[uppityperson]

46. Older skin is easily bruised and torn. I see bruises there. Not "bloodied", not "brutalized".

Shit, maybe I should post this without the hyperbole, see what reception it gets. Hmmm

[H2O Man]

47. Same with babies.

I used to investigate child abuse, many years ago. I remember that babies often bruised and bled easier than teens. I still took it quite seriously, though. Just the way I feel about babies and the elderly, I suppose.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

51. I agree.

There is some strange shit being spewed on this site lately.

[uppityperson]

53. Are you seriously saying I am all that (insults) because I disagree with hyperbole?

Or are you saying those involved with hyperbole rather than facts are (insult)? You should be sick.

[EFerrari]

67. You don't put bandages on bruises.

Really, the lengths people have to go to to rationalize this speaks for itself.

[uppityperson]

76. You can though. You can put bandages on perfectly intact skin. I see bruises and gauze

That is what I see. I don't see Bloodied or Brutalized but I do see bruises and yes, older skin bruises easily. It does also tear easily. This is a problem with geriatric care since it can be hurt easily.

As far as having a piece of gauze proving "bloodied, brutalized"? No. It doesn't. Yes, I am a skeptic, very objective in what I find. I see bruises and a piece of gauze.

[EFerrari]

77. No, if you go to an ER with a bruise, no one willl put a bandage on it.

And I think I'm all finished with you on this topic.

[uppityperson]

78. But I can put a bandage on my arm at home. See? A piece of gauze proves nothing

Yes Ray got hauled out and I don't think he should have but there is not a need to sensationalize it more than it is since it is bad enough as it is.

A piece of gauze on an arm only proves there is a piece of gauze on an arm.

Ray got hauled out of a speech and I don't think he should have.

Got it?

[uppityperson]

79. And you are wrong. If you have fragile skin, you may very well get a covering on it.

Been there. Done that. It happens if you have fragile skin, to keep it from being rubbed open.

[npk]

52. That is not brutalized

Those are bruises that are caused by someone grabbing another persons arm very tightly. At least that is not consistent with what most people view as being brutalized.

[EFerrari]

68. To brutalize means treating someone harshly or cruelly

but the root is brute so, i.e., without human compassion. We flatter ourselves by comparing people to animals favorably.

Bloodying a 70 year old pacifist and trying to put him in a headlock instead of resolving the situation with language is precisely brutal.

[chill_wind]

48. CNN Video. She couldn't hear any of that? BULLSHIT.

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/02/16-3

And who's the plainclothes guy?

[slipslidingaway]

50. Thanks for the video, many people in the audience noticed, Clinton had to see...

what was happening.

[frylock]

58. she fucking smirked..

SMIRKED as they took him away. i can't say what i feel about her right now,

[slipslidingaway]

54. Former CIA Veteran Ray McGovern Discusses Brutal Arrest at Secretary Clinton's Internet Freedom

Speech

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Former-CIA-Veteran-Ray-McG-by-Rob-Kall-110217-854.html

"...When Secretary Clinton walked into the room, the audience rose and applauded before sitting back down. All but Ray McGovern, just as he had done hundreds of times before in the Catholic church without incident. McGovern described what happened next.

"It was my symbolic way of saying not everybody agrees with her. I turned my back to her and stood . When she came in I not only remained standing but I turned my back to her."

...Comparing the two experiences, Ray remarked:


"When Clinton started talking about how people beat up and arrested people in Iran, it gave some poetic justice, a great irony, to my standing there and what happened to me then, when she's talking about what happened in other countries and there I am being handled in a vicious way...God knows what would happen next. Maybe some senior would ask her questions . As bad as Donald Rumsfeld was, he let me speak. He let me speak and engaged me in dialog."

"At the same speech, there was a courageous guy who stood with his back to Rumsfeld the entire speech. They left him completely alone and he walked out at the end, unbothered. Four years later, things have changed.

In response to the charges of disorderly conduct filed against him, he said, "There was a lot of disorderly conduct, but I wasn't responsible for it."

[chill_wind]

60. Boiling frogs parsing iron handcuffs vs chains and police thuggery

that sends you to the ER but doesn't quite meet the definition of brutal-- unless perhaps you are actually beaten unconscious. "Maybe we could take it more seriously" if some greater magic number had turned to look. Pick a number-any arbitrary number- that works for you. Maybe five?

I find myself wondering if this show of brutality may be a signpost on a path to even wider and more brutal repression. I have been comparing what happened during Clinton’s speech Tuesday with my four-minute mini-debate with Donald Rumsfeld on May 4, 2006 in Atlanta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MInHphR4zBg). Halfway through, Rumsfeld gives the nod to a black-hatted security fellow to elbow me away from the microphone.

I shout, ‘So this is America.’ Rumsfeld takes one look at the TV cameras streaming live, makes a snap decision, and tells the security fellow to let me stay. During that same speech in Atlanta, one fearless witness stands dead-center in the audience with his back to Rumsfeld for the entire speech and is not bothered, much less beaten and jailed.

The contrast between the experience of May 2006 and February 2011 can be viewed through the prism of the proverbial ‘boiling frog.’ There does seem to be a subtle but successful campaign to get people gradually accustomed to increasingly repressive measures; and many, perhaps most, Americans seem oblivious.

Continue reading on Examiner.com: Human Rights defenders demand Clinton apology for rights violation - National Human Rights | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/human-rights-in-national/human-rights-defenders-demand-clinton-apology-for-rights-violation#ixzz1EHSPw2qF

[slipslidingaway]

63. Contact info - U.S. Department of State

http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

[EFerrari]

74. On twitter, @StateDept. n/t

[EFerrari]

70. DN! Ex-CIA Analyst Ray McGovern Beaten, Arrested for Silent Protest at Clinton Speech

This week, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gave a major address calling for Internet freedom around the world. As Clinton condemned the Egyptian and Iranian governments for arresting and beating protesters, former U.S. Army and CIA officer Ray McGovern was violently ejected from the audience and arrested after he stood up and turned his back in a silent protest of America’s foreign policy. Ray McGovern joins us from Washington, D.C.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/18/ex_cia_analyst_ray_mcgovern_beaten

[slipslidingaway]

72. Thanks :) n/t

[EFerrari]

73. Robert Parry: Ray McGovern Bloodied at Clinton Talk

Sometimes the hypocrisy is just overwhelming. So, it probably shouldn't surprise us that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would deliver a speech hailing the peaceful protests that changed Egypt while 71-year-old Ray McGovern was roughed up and dragged away for standing quietly in protest of her support for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"So this is America," said McGovern as he was hustled from the room by two security guards. "This is America."

McGovern, a former Army intelligence officer and a 27-year veteran of the CIA, was wearing a "Veterans for Peace" t-shirt and, according to witnesses, was standing silently with his back to Secretary Clinton before he was set upon by the two agents who bruised, bloodied and handcuffed McGovern, a cancer survivor.

McGovern, who writes for Consortiumnews.com, has been detained at other events protesting both the illegality of U.S. wars and the hypocrisy of demanding accountability for others but not for senior U.S. officials implicated in war crimes, like the torture authorized by former President George W. Bush and ex-Vice President Dick Cheney.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ray-McGovern-Bloodied-at-C-by-Robert-Parry-110217-487.html

[EFerrari]

75. Petition

http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-hillary-clinton-cut-the-hypocrisy

And retweets needed:

http://twitter.com/?status=Activist%20arrested%20at%20Clinton%27s%20speech%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.presstv.ir%2Fdetail%2F165779.html#!/codepinkalert/status/38691915901833216

[slipslidingaway]

80. done n/t