YES Egypt youth , you are responsible for the economic conditions you live with.....

[boston bean]

Per Barack Obama:

"I'm also confident that the same ingenuity and entrepreneurial spirit that the young people of Egypt have shown in recent days can be harnessed to create new opportunity, jobs and businesses that allow the extraordinary potential of this generation to take flight."

pull yourself up by your boot straps young people of Egypt, the free market is coming your way!

Yeah, no longer will any dictator be stealing and plundering your wealth.

You will now truly elect the motherfuckers who will steal it from you and it will be your damn fault!

You lazy assed for nothing wannabee revolutionaries..... <sarcasm>

That sentence in Obama's speech, just pissed me off.... sorry

[MineralMan]

1. He did not say what you implied in your title at all.

If you've ever been to Egypt, you'll know that small business is the norm there. Very small business. Indeed, that is key to the restoration of the Egyptian economy for individuals. And, yes, individual initiative is the answer for many of the people who were protesting. You'd find that they agreed with that if you actually talked to them.

You're twisting what President Obama said to match your own opinion.

[boston bean]

3. In reality, MM, you know how fucked up we are right now economically in

this country, and the platitudes of DEMOCRACY and the FREE MARKET, do nothing for me.

Right now, it is one BIG LIE. People are suffering. In the biggest Democracy Free Market country on the block.

[MineralMan]

4. Uh...the speech was about Egypt, not the US.

You're projecting your opinion about what needs to be done here onto a speech the President was making about the initiative shown by the protesters in Egypt. How do you not see the conflict?

You don't like Democracy? What system do you want? You're never clear on what you think should replace our system, except to say you don't like it.

And that has fuck-all to do with the needs of the people in Egypt. Do you even know the conditions there?

[boston bean]

5. I love Democracy! Do you?

When people are protesting because 1 tomato cost as much as they make in 1 day or young people not getting a job out of college. Do our young not have the innovation ready to be harnessed? It's easy to extrapolate or atleast compare on scale what is happening here economically to some of the reasons for the REVOLUTION in Egypt. It was all economics and our democracy aint doing that good right now for the people. The government and it's actions have an impact on how people live. To hear platitudes of free markets doesn't cut it, when it is failing miserable here, right now.

[bobbolink]

20. Of course, harnesses are in short supply. We are suffocating in "Freedom"

[MineralMan]

7. On another note: I found a solution for my own personal

financial distress. I came out of retirement and started a new business. A solo business, as all of my businesses in my adult life have been. I'm writing the content for small business websites, and within a year, this new business is profitable and growing. I took the initiative to solve my own problem, and used the skills I have to start pulling myself out of the hole.

That is exactly what President Obama is talking about. In a system like ours, it is possible for an individual to create his or her own income, through initiative, skills, and a little marketing. In Egypt, individuals have opened countless hole-in-the-wall businesses, selling goods to other individuals who need those goods. Individual initiative, as the President said, is one way for individuals to make a difference in their own lives, and peripherally in the lives of others.

The term "Free Market" as you use it is meaningless to the individual. It's a term used for global commerce. You're conflating all sorts of things into a mish-mash of confusion.

[boston bean]

8. Did you do that from living homeless? Or lost your house?

Were you on SS?

The free market is not meaningless to any individual. As a matter of fact it either makes you or breaks you.

[MineralMan]

9. No, I did it to keep those things from happening.

Have a nice day.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

21. Thank you. So few are willing to think beyond their own middlclass advantages.

:yourock:

[sabrina 1]

42. Well, good for YOU. But this isn't about you, not everything is you know?

Clearly you were fortunate enough to be born into an America that actually was a land of opportunity. You benefited from the work of people like FDR eg, who actually cared about the American people.

Young people going into the job market today find themselves competing with Chinese and Indian workers, something YOU did not face when you were in the workplace.

How many people are you employing in your new business btw? I started my own business also for what it's worth but I have skills others have not had the opportunity to develop. So I refrain from waving admonishing fingers at them for not being able to do what I can do.

I'm sure there were a few people in Egypt who did quite well under their dictatorship also. I'm sure that is the case everywhere, it does NOT mitigate the harsh reality for a majority of people whose circumstances are far different from yours.

But enough about you and me. What do you suggest for those who are young, who cannot afford college or whose skills are not in demand in a coutnry where they can be bought overseas for far less? A country, where you get Tax Breaks for outsourcing jobs, what do you suggest they do? How do they get to where you are, with enough money to stay in their homes and an income to keep food on the table while they start up their own businesses? How do they get the experience to develop the skills when they cannot get a job?

My suggestion to them is to follow our tax dollars to other countries, like Iraq and China and Afghanistan and wherever else we are pouring our into. Maybe they get pull themselves up by their bootstraps and go earn a living where the money is, somewhere outside this country. Isn't that what the military is for after all? All those poor young people with no other options? What a great country.

[NashVegas]

6. Don't Worry, That Will Change, And Soon

Don't imagine for a minute that US/multinational concerns will leave Egypt's elections unmolested.

[dipsydoodle]

2. The speech

was directed toward the American people. Don't really think anyone outside really took much notice - no due cause. He even quoted some ill considered precedents - Indonesia indeed.

He was digging himself out from some equally previous ill considered remarks both by himself and his administration which didn't account for the likelyhood of the protests succeeding.

[tigereye]

11. hmm, cynical analysis, but he was just speaking before

to the business folks- so I guess you could say that it was a double message...


to be fair, the Egyptian army may already be the market there! :D

[sufrommich]

12. How did you get all of that out of that simple sentence?

It sounded to me like he was telling the young protesters to put their obvious creative and intellectual skills to good work. What is the problem?

[boston bean]

14. It's what was said and what wasn't.

Let's here Free Market speak.

What was not said was job security, economic freedom....

[sufrommich]

16. This may be the lamest excuse I've heard to demonize Obama yet.

:eyes:

[boston bean]

19. Demonizing Obama???

This free market for the rich shit is OLD.

thought I was demonizing that......

It is not working. Do you agree with that or not.

Or are the platitudes enough to hold you over?

Why didn't he mention jobs and economic security? Maybe hits a little too close to home??

[sufrommich]

27. So you were expecting an American President to call for

a socialist revolution? He said nothing about free markets or government programs,it was a pretty standard wish for the young people of Egypt to move their country forward.You're making a mountain out of a nonexistent molehill.

[boston bean]

30. like i said, when did you last hear about economic security for the citizens of this nation.

It's all you can do it, we have the best system in the world.

If you can't make it. It's your own fault.

I would have liked it much more if he had spoken of the economic injustices they faced.

[bobbolink]

23. Looking for "hatred" under every rock is a useless waste of time.

[TroglodyteScholar]

15. Dude, way to intentionally misinterpret what was said.

You had to dig pretty hard to find that meaning. Must have been hard work, so why don't you take a little break and regain your senses?

[boston bean]

22. It might be you who needs the smelling salts, when all is said and done..

[TroglodyteScholar]

41. Whatever man

I didn't say anyone needed smelling salts. I said there was a predetermined opinion being "backed up" by a quote that didn't support that view at all. You may not mind distorting someone's words to support your conclusions, but I personally find it dishonest and reprehensible.

[hulka38]

18. My advice to Egyptian youth

would be to amend their constitution with strong public financing of elections prior to going full on democracy and free market.

[bobbolink]

24. That is certainly a good first step!

They are also going to include poverty in their priorities, which is much smarter than the USian way.

[boston bean]

25. That might go a long way.

to be honest with you, I wish the youth of this country would get out in the streets.

I am doubtful that it will happen. They pretty much get to stay with their parents and be on their corporate health insurance until 26.

There is little motivation.

But maybe I should give them more credit.

[hulka38]

40. For what it's worth

I understand your frustration with that statement. My sense is that people around the world aren't buying our bullshit anymore and that statements such as these are meant for American political consumption more than anything else. Our house is a wreck right now, all the way to the foundation. I feel like Obama is a fresh coat of paint we put on it in 2008 and are now selling that it's returning to its former glory. To his credit, the house is still up but we've got a long way before we should hold ourselves up as the ideal.

[MineralMan]

26. That's a very good idea. It may not be something they're thinking

about, though, given the limited experience they've had with elections that were engineered to offer no choices. I hope they do consider how elections are financed, as well as how candidates are selected. They have much work ahead of them, and a political environment that is much, much different from our own.

Much will depend on the military government, I'm sure, and how dedicated they really are to establishing a fair democratic system. History tells me not to be too optimistic.

[boston bean]

28. A fair democratic/free market solution like the one we have here? nt

[MineralMan]

29. I'm talking solely about Egypt. The problems in our system are

another matter altogether. The subject is Egypt. We discuss our problems constantly in other threads. Let's talk about Egypt, OK?

[boston bean]

31. NO. i started this thread and if you can't seem to grasp the meaning of it, that's your problem.

it's about the world's largest democracy built on a free market society, that is failing, giving this holier than thou advice.

I will make whatever contrasts I please.

Like you say, it's just my opinion..... And I have a right to it.

So, na na na na na na

Don't you ever tell me what to do.

[MineralMan]

32. Edit to correct my error. I am not telling you what to do.

You're welcome, of course, to write as you please. This is not my site, so I have no authority here, but I'm talking about Egypt, not the US. They have an opportunity to try to establish a system of government that works for them. Odds are it will not end up looking like our own system, since the culture and realities there are quite different than here. I'm not holding our system up as a model in any way. It has plenty of long-standing problems of its own.

I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do. I will, however, respond to threads in my own way, using my own thought processes. You will do the same, I'm sure. Good luck.

[boston bean]

33. Is Barack Obama president of the US? That makes it about the US.

I never told you, you couldn't respond to this thread in whatever way you please.

However, someone got my messages above deleted. If you believe people should be able to express themselves, please write to the mods and have them undelete the responses.

I think you, being a very fair minded individual would agree there was nothing wrong with my responses to you.

[MineralMan]

36. I'll let the moderators handle the moderation as they choose.

That's not the issue here, either.

[boston bean]

37. Very good answer. nt

[pampango]

34. I haven't used "Ignore" since the primaries in 2008, but you are tempting.

"Like you say, it's just my opinion..... And I have a right to it.

So, na na na na na na

Don't you ever tell me what to do."

How old are you?

*Unrec and Hide thread*

[boston bean]

35. then you must be ignoring and hiding alot of another posters threads on DU? nt

[sabrina 1]

44. Rec, to counter childish unrecs. The OP started a discussion

and simply declared that he would like not to be told how that discussion ought to go. I think that was a fair statement, considering it is his thread.

Th POTUS should not be giving advice to the people of Egypt who risked their lives and many of whom died, to rid themselves of the very capitalist system and its puppet Dictator, that drove them to this point and who was supported by the U.S. right up to two weeks ago.

It would be far better for the U.S. to mind its own business, to stop attempting to influence other countries, they do not want our interference mainly because that interference has caused so much tragedy and oppression and suffering for untold numbers of people around the globe.

What the U.S. ought to be doing now is to first, apologize for the support given to the Capitalist puppet the people have deposed, then, at most, make a statement saying they will wait to see what the people of Egypt want from the U.S. in the future. The youth of Egypt appear to be very savvy and capable so I would not dare to give them any advice.

One thing these young people do not need are lectures from Western Leaders whose credibility around the world is worth about as much as their puppet dictators, Ben Ali, Mubarak, Karamov, Suleiman et al.

Where was the U.S. when the Mubarak regime's brutal police beat to death Habib Said last June? What advice were they giving the youth of Egypt back then? From the Wikileaks cables it doesn't like they cared much about the youth of Egypt, but were focused on keeping in power the current regime and planning on how to keep it on power even after the death of Mubarak by installing the torturing Chief of Egypt's Secret police, Suleiman. So, the people of Egypt are aware of all of this. I think the U.S. should stay out of the lecturing business. We have enough of our problems to take care of which we are not doing very well at so far.

[dionysus]

43. "you're dad and i'm doug. i'm outta heeere"

[cali]

38. oh for fuck's sake. talk about fucked up projection.

happily and heartily unrecced.

[boston bean]

39. OFFS another rude and empty reply. nt