Dear Anonymous, I know we've never met, but I think I'm falling in love with you.

[TalkingDog]

(Screen Cap)

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Thunderstruck]

2. Anonymous cyber hacktivists vs HBGary

http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-san-jose/anonymous-cyber-hacktivists-vs-hbgary


HBGary.com, an internet security firm, was taken down late last night by the internet hacktivist group Anonymous. The only thing that remains of HBGary's website as of press time is an 'under construction' page.

The reason for the attack, according to several blogs online, was the announcement by HBGary Federal that they were about to close a deal with the FBI regarding the revealing of several of Anonymous' leaders' identities, along with their operations.


Continue reading on Examiner.com: Anonymous cyber hacktivists vs HBGary - San Jose Libertarian | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-san-jose/anonymous-cyber-hacktivists-vs-hbgary#ixzz1DI42JykN

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

132. DO take a look at HBGary's twitter account, they are totally humiliating him

Its too funny.

Go here
htt://twitter.com/aaronbarr#

Laugh your a$$ off

[Occulus]

150. OMG those are golden

I like this one:

"Does HBGary know that they got socially engineered by a 16-year-old girl and we got root access a second time just by pretending to be Ted?"

:rofl:

And, I should add, if someone at this security company gave Anonymous root-level access with no more proof than someone pretending to be someone within the company, well, the company shouldn't exist at all. I mean, come on- that's just rank incompetence right there.

[jaxx]

3. Isn't hacking illegal?

[leveymg]

5. So is torture and war crimes. But, I never see anyone getting prosecuted for it in America.

Except a few low-ranking enlisted persons stupid enough to take photos of themselves doing it.

[villager]

6. +1

n/t

[Mojeoux]

140. + another 1 nt

[jaxx]

8. Why try to change the subject?

These people are ruthless...and for what? Some guy who got some stolen data and has been eking it out as he plays politics? Hacking is illegal.

[TBF]

12. Hackers are ruthless? Not even on the same scale as war criminals,

yet you support them daily.

[jaxx]

16. You're trying to change the subject too.

Why can't you just talk about the hacking?

[TBF]

21. I have no problem with the hacking - in fact I applaud anonymous. nt

[jaxx]

25. Really?

[TBF]

38. Yes. Now let's talk about the war criminals. Why is it that Mr. Obama

is continuing to fight these wars and why has he not closed Guantanamo Bay and Bagram? Why is he continuing with the programs of torture and endless war? He campaigned on change - I know because I was there working on the campaign, donating time and money. Which, btw, is most assuredly NOT happening in 2012.

[jaxx]

41. No sale.

You are still trying to change the subject.

[TBF]

42. I told you that I have no problem with hacking. You don't want to discuss any other illegalities?

That's fine. Enjoy your day.

[snot]

135. As Casey Sheehan put it, paraphrasing Thoreau,

"And Henry David Thoreau he went to prison, he refused to pay his poll tax, and Emerson, I call them HT and RW, and RW came to visit HT and said what are you doing here, buddy? And HT said, why aren’t you here? This is the only place for a moral person in an immoral world.

" . . . . As soon as the leaders of a country lie to you, they have no authority over you."

(From the speech she gave to the Veterans for Peace Convention on August 5, 2005, the day before she went to Crawford for her first vigil there.)

Or as Howard Zinn said,

"Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders . . . . and millions have been killed because of this obedience . . . . Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves . . . the grand thieves are running the country. That’s our problem."

– Howard Zinn, Failure to Quit (South End Press, 2002; originally published 1993)

Personally, I don't condone law-breaking. But given how scarce our resources seem to be to investigate and enforce laws against much greater crimes, I say we should prioritize.

[Matariki]

54. Yes. Me too.

And you should address the points made about war criminals. It actually isn't a change of subject.

[originalpckelly]

26. Because you're missing the greater context of the act of hacking.

1. If I told you a man was shot by me at my house, you'd probably assume it was an accident or a murder.

2. If I told you a man broke into my house, and I shot him to defend myself, because he was wielding a weapon, you'd have a fundamentally better understanding of the situation.

In 1, you think I'm a bumbling idiot or even a murderer, or perhaps you would think it was in self-defense.
In 2, you understand that it was only for self-defense and nothing more.

Do you understand now?

[jaxx]

28. Nope.

What I see is that all who advocate for the hackers have gone all over the place in trying to justify the illegal act of hacking. It doesn't work. I know spinning the subject off into something else is supposed to take the heat off the hackers, but they're still there. If you mount a defense for something you should be able to back it up keeping within the subject defended. No one has been able to do that.

[originalpckelly]

32. Hacking is a non-violent action.

There is a silent war going on, and the hacking is a part of that war.

It's going to destroy his career. If he's willing to work with an unlawful government, perhaps he should have to suffer real consequences for it?

These hackers caused minimal damages to the companies they were working against, but our government is going to ruin their lives because of it. Our government is basically ruthless when it comes to suppressing dissent, but it flies under the radar. It looks legitimate. I mean, hacking is illegal. But why is something illegal? The government made it illegal.

The hacking in this case is not for a malum in se crime, like ID theft and then fraud based upon it.

No, this is solely political, and would not have happened if the government hadn't unconstitutionally suppressed Wikileaks freedom of speech, and the free flow of information needed for a populace to make good decisions on their politicians.

Hacking for political purposes, and not for ID theft, is a malum prohibitum crime, meaning that it is not wrong in itself. At various times throughout history, activities akin to hacking have been legal.

Hacking into this man's website is akin to graffiti on his house/business with a real political message. Or a government building.

Do you think it should be illegal to post posters of this man calling him out for his corruption, in a more traditional way? If Anonymous had gone around putting up flyers on streets lamps with the same message, would they have to be arrested?

Not in my mind, or the minds of other people.

In this case, the hacking is akin to that type of speech or graffiti or posters/flyers.

Is it that they solely had the purpose of scamming him out of his money? Nope.

There is a legitimate political message here, and hacking into his website to post this message is the internet equivalent of putting up a poster critical of a leader or a collaborator.

No one's going to die because of this, right?
He will lose money, but he should. He's corrupt and working as an investigator for a corrupt system, that simply wouldn't even be in this situation were it not for its suppression of freedom of speech and the people's right to know.

[jaxx]

34. The war only exists in some people's minds.

But nice try on making hacking acceptable. It isn't.

[Doremus]

72. Lame response made lamer still by the outstanding post it's in response to. nt

[TroglodyteScholar]

102. +1 n/t

[Matariki]

55. Excellent post Originalpckelly n/t

[countmyvote4real]

141. +1

Thank you.

[LadyHawkAZ]

65. When you say hacking

does that category also include government warrantless wiretapping? Same action, perpetrated by the same people who say hacking is illegal.

Is the illegality of the act the only thing bothering you?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

149. +1

[demwing]

130. OK.Hacking is illegal. In regards to this instance, who cares?

There are crimes, and then there are crimes, and then there is plain old evil.

Hacking is a joke compared to torture. Turning a blind eye to hacking is a joke compared to turning a blind eye to torturing.

On which side of evil do you open your eyes?

[TransitJohn]

139. Where is this crime of 'hacking' in the US Code? Define terms our keep sounding like a blowhard.

:hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

127. I am sorry that you shot someone

:cry:


:(

[JDPriestly]

70. You know what I have been asking myself, jaxx.

If George Washington lived today, what would he think of the hackers? What would he think of Wikileaks? What would he think of our current government?

I think I know what Tom Paine would have thought.

And Washington admired some of Tom Paine's writings:

In late 1776 Paine published The Crisis pamphlet series, to inspire the Americans in their battles against the British army. He juxtaposed the conflict between the good American devoted to civic virtue and the selfish provincial man.<28> To inspire his soldiers, General George Washington had The American Crisis, first Crisis pamphlet, read aloud to them.<29> It begins:
These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

Thomas Paine later rebuked George Washington for what I would call corruption and superficiality.

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/paine_letter_to_washington_01.html

I don't particularly support Anonymous. I have no idea how Anonymous really works or who Anonymous is. Maybe Anonymous is just random people. But these are times of drastic change, and it is hard to know how to judge the strange events around us.

We are beginning to recognize just how corrupt our governments are, and by "we" I do not just mean Americans.

But then if you read the letter from Paine to Washington at the link (assuming it is authentic), then you will see that there is nothing new about corruption even in our government.

[rhett o rick]

95. The oppressors have the Patriot Act, we have hacking. Whose side are you on? nm

[leveymg]

14. You call the hackers, "ruthless"? And you claim to be upset because they're breaking the law?

Any opinion on the hundreds of millions of domestic e-mails and phone calls the NSA intercepted without lawful warrants? What about the profiles and data banks the government built using all that stolen data?

Any thoughts on that law-breaking, Jaxx?

[jaxx]

19. Why would you think I'm upset?

This isn't some emotional thing, it's reality. Hacking is illegal. Once again, the subject was changed. People seem to be unable to address hacking for what it is.

Why is that?

[leveymg]

33. You use emotional words like "ruthless", "spinning", even "hacking" has connotations.

Believe it or not, your use of language says more about your agenda than you seem to want to admit. What really bothers you -- admit it, they bother you -- about Wikileaks and Anonymous?

If you answer that one candidly, I'll mount a straightforward Socratic defense of what Wikileaks has been doing.

[jaxx]

37. What bothers me about wikileaks is that they aren't straight forward

about their leaking. They pick and choose, manipulate. What bothers me about Anonymous is that they are operating like a backyard militia online...laws be damned. Neither gets any respect from me, I don't like games.

[leveymg]

43. You sound like the British Red Coats complaining the Colonials don't fight fairly.

During the American War of Independence, the British Army was trained to engage its enemies in open fields where their advantage in massed cannons and musketry could be used to full advantage. Often, the Colonial irregulars (yes, militias) would snipe and ambush from behind the numerous stone walls still seen in New England. That upset the British sense of fair play and the "rules of war" (and confounded their standard tactics); the Colonials came to be branded "terrorists" and "cowards" in the London press.

Well, what works works. And you know what they say about love and war . . . but, don't call it unAmerican.

[BeFree]

49. So

Our forefathers were criminals? OMG!! Call congress!!

[leveymg]

50. Criminals? No doubt. "Gentleman, you must all hang together or else you shall all hang seperately"

Those words by B. Franklin about the need for unanimous signing of the Declaration of Independence weren't just a nice use of metaphor and irony.

Were the Founding Fathers viewed as criminals? Absolutely. George III's government would have treated them ruthlessly, indeed, if he's had been given the chance.

[JDPriestly]

73. The British government considered our forefathers to be criminals.

Had you never thought about that, BeFree?

Had the British captured George Washington, what do you think they would have done with him? They considered him to be nothing more than a traitor.

I'm not taking sides in the Anonymous/government argument. Hacking is illegal. Whether it is morally right or wrong depends on a lot of things. It remains illegal, and as with Washington, if Anonymous is caught, he/they/she/it will be punished under the law.

And then those who support Anonymous will argue that Anonymous did not do anything nearly as wrong as Bush did when he imprisoned people in Guantanamo without trial and tortured some of them. So this will go on until both sides either decide to continue the game or one or the other realizes the inconsistencies in its point of view and decides to make some changes.

The inconsistency in Anonymous' behavior is that Anonymous maintains its on privacy and does not reveal its own secrets including its identity while insisting that it should have the right to reveal certain secrets of others. That is an inconsistency that is very difficult to reconcile.

But then so is the idea of public matters being held secret.

It would be even more inconsistent if a company that pretends to be a "security" company profits from depriving others of privacy and specializes in helping the government discover the secrets and personal information of private citizens who have never been convicted of wrongdoing under our laws and according to our Constitution. I don't know whether that is what this company is doing. But maybe that is something we need to find out.

[BeFree]

79. Criminals to Patriots

Funny how that works.

The ruling authority makes all the difference, eh? Then of course there is the matter of self-defense.

And what about super-heroes that drive without a license, or their FAA permits, and always hiding from everyone? And committing assault and doing other things to bad guys? Are they criminals, too?

[JDPriestly]

83. Probably depends on the type of penalty that applies to the

specific violation. Driving without a license is one of the most common crimes prosecuted in our courts. Flying without an FAA permit? I don't know much about that. Committing assault is also one of the most common crimes prosecuted in our courts.

So is theft including theft of information under certain circumstances. If you value your freedom, you won't hack. That's for sure. The question is whether some people decide that committing a specific act is more important than the price they will have to pay for it.

Certainly George Washington and our other founding Fathers and revolutionary fighters knew that their lives were on the line. If you read the book on George Washington's crossing of the Delaware, they knew quite well that they were risking everything.

[stockholmer]

99. US FEMA representative tells the local police that the founding fathers were terrorists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio&feature=related

ahh, the irony

[tomp]

147. exactly.

imagine if the iraqi resistance hacked the "defense" dept. computers. illegal?

now imagine someone who supports the iraqi resistance hacking the same computers.

it makes no difference. what matters is what is right. we all have our opinions on that.

when laws make sense and are applied fairly across the board, then we can talk. not until then, and that will be a long time.

[originalpckelly]

46. Our government is a "laws be damned" type affair.

If they don't like you, they'll get you.

Whether you're a Quaker hold a peaceful anti-war meeting, to an organization trying to get the truth out about our government.

[leveymg]

48. Not just metaphorically. USG asserts Exec Immunity, States Secrets Privilege, prosecutorial

discretion all the time when confronted with its own law-breaking, which is often on a vast scale. Take the Bush Administration's conduct of the Iraq War and mass NSA wiretapping, for instance.

Yet, some people pretend to be outraged at Wikileaks and Anon because they "broke the law"? Pretty cynical, if you ask me. A farce of justice.

[BobbyBoring]

106. I'm sorrry

But we are no longer a nation of laws. Many years ago, we were to a degree, but that veneer has eroded. Our government is as lawless as most that we have condemned for the past 40 years.
If we were still a nation of laws, Bush,Cheney, Rove, Addington, Yu, etc would be in jail.
If we were still a nation of laws, we would be gone from Iraq and Afghanastan and would be making reparations to them.
If we were still a nation of laws, thousands would be locked up for defrauding the government and the people.

I'm not too concerned with laws anymore and I applaud those that resist!

[timtom]

116. I'll bet you never watched Zorro on tv

or saw many Robin Hood movies. I could be wrong, though...

[Wednesdays]

121. There are gazillions of flicks about illegal acts committed for the greater good

Mutiny on the Bounty. The Shawshank Redemption. Gandhi. Star Wars ("These aren't the droids you're looking for"). Mulan. The Sting. Spartacus. ...Kamimaze Kaito Jeanne... shall I go on? ;)

[timtom]

128. This is a bit off-topic, but did you ever see the "Samurai" trilogy

by Inagaki? It was life-changing for me.

[FloridaJudy]

145. "Illegal' doesn't necessarily mean "immoral"

Up until the sixties birth control and interracial marriage were illegal in some states. Marijuana still is in most. I - as a respectable married woman - have done things in my bedroom that could earn me prison time if anyone wanted to get technical about it, and they might if I were gay. Let's just say I'm glad not to be living in Texas.

Outing the misdeeds of a government or a corporation attempting to deceive the public is a whole different thing than spying on individual citizens IMO. The first may be illegal, but not immoral.

This situation with Wikileaks and Anonymous reminds me of a great Science Fiction novel by John Brunner - written in 1975 - called The Shockwave Rider. It's out of print now, alas, but a public library or used book store could likely track it down.

[rhett o rick]

158. Legality is often determined by the oppressor. nm

[originalpckelly]

18. OMG! He might lose some money, or be shown the fraud of a security "expert" he is.

After all, if he cannot even protect himself from hackers, how the hell is he supposed to help others?

[jaxx]

24. What are you talking about?

[originalpckelly]

29. Read the post about context.

That's what people are trying to get at.

This asshat was going to sell information about Anonymous to the government. The information is pertinent to the government because they're trying to scare off people who'd challenge them and their corporate empire. This is the same government that tried to suppress dissent by using their power to pressure these wimpy companies into not doing business with Wikileaks, thereby shutting them down in many ways.

Things don't always happen without cause you know. There was a casus belli for this.

[jaxx]

31. I did read it and it was just another analogy.

I see no good in hacking.

[quakerboy]

122. Then you are woefully ill equipped to judge

There's damn little in this world that is all good or all bad. Almost everything has some sort of silver lining, even if you happen to find it repugnant. Hacking is so far into the gray its not even a challenge to find good things along with the bad.

Anywho, how about Hijacking? Can you find anything good about that?

[Autonomy]

131. Your moral compass is a turn signal.

Legality (or illegality) does not determine good (or bad/evil).

[Lordquinton]

142. I'm a little slow

in poking my head into this discussion, but I wanted to point out that Anonymous was responding in kind to the "security" company, how do you think they acquired all the data they collected? among other channels they tried (pathetically) to hack into anonymous's data, which they didn't take kindly too. They then did unto others what had been done to them, they gathered all the information they could, and then exposed this company for the scam that it is by changing their homepage, a very harmless act. They also handed over information that they owned to the FBI before some one else tried to scam money out of the government.

So, now that we've established that Anon was merely winning at their own game, you see that both sides are equally breaking the law by hacking, one side is merely better at it.

[KurtNYC]

161. Barr says he pwned them

Barr to Karen:

>>No they are not freaked out. They don't get it...Greg will tell you. They think I have nothing but a heirarchy based on IRC aliases! as 1337 as these guys are suppsed to be they don't get it. I have pwned them! :)...I am going to keep up the debate because I think it is good business but I will be smart about my public responses.<<

http://pastebin.com/dh8t9bwk

Jaxx, this is a mud fight. What you are talking about is like advocating speeding tickets at the Indy 500 (which hopefully will be cancelled this year bc 'speeding is illegal.')

[Kali]

20. ...

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:







:eyes:

[frylock]

64. so is exceeding the speed limit..

something i'm sure you've never ever done before.

[Wait Wut]

67. +1

and an Amen.

[walldude]

69. Yes it is. So is smoking dope.

So is driving over the speed limit. So is running a traffic light. So is cheating on your taxes. What's your point?


"These people are ruthless". Yes they are, so you may not want to fuck with them.

[rhett o rick]

96. Smoking dope is illegal?? Crazy man. nm

[walldude]

100. I know right?

Although I live in Colorado.. soon to be the legal dope capitol of the world right next to Amsterdam. Can't walk down the street without running into a Medical dispensary.

[rhett o rick]

94. You stand with the oppressors. You stand with the tyranny. Hacking isnt anymore illegal than the

fucking Patriot Act.

[sabrina 1]

133. They're on the side of the people. And the people need SOMEONE

on their side.

As for crime, we have no rule of law in this country. It broke down completely when, after spending years trying to stop the war criminals and hundreds of promises of 'wait 'til win, okay, we won, but not enough. Wait 'til we win Congress and the WH.' So we won. We were lied to. And hundreds of thousands of human beings died.

Go Anonymous!

[liberation]

152. Oh boy... here comes the red herrings!

It's never too early for stinky fish for some apparently. LOL

[DeSwiss]

71. +1000

[HillbillyBob]

126. that one girl was from my hometown.

I know she was not raised like that.
Then again her family moved in right after I left, so ..

I still find the whole wars/reasons/lies distasteful..I could string a set of four letter words from here to eternity and it would still not cover how disgusted.

But this Anonymous is great!!

I hope she is reading...
Chamber of Commerce publish its campaign bribe list and how much.
slurp up the whole site and wikileek it.

[Ian David]

7. Yes, it is. But it's still funny to watch from the sidelines sometimes. n/t

[TBF]

10. Let's talk about Guantanamo. Isn't torture illegal? nt

[jaxx]

27. This thread is about hacking.

[ohheckyeah]

56. And Robin Hood was

a thief and yet to many a hero.

[walldude]

101. It was.. right up until you came in and made it about what is legal

:shrug:

[liberation]

153. You keep using that word "hacking" which does not mean what you think it does

if at least you want to make your red herring mildly respectable, learn to use the correct term: cracking.

Tool.

[MattBaggins]

155. How many people do you think know the

difference between hacking and cracking.

[snagglepuss]

13. Rendition, torture , war crimes aren't legal are they. Where's the prosecution?

[originalpckelly]

17. This empire has no laws.

It only has excuses, with which to prosecute. The rule of law as an idea no longer exists. A person can be in power at the very highest levels, commit the most egregious crimes, and they can walk free.

When justice is not equally applied, justice no longer exists.

What is illegal for us to do, is perfectly legal for those in power.

It's technically illegal to wiretap everyone in America without warrants, to search through our communications for code words, and then begin recording the conversation for "intelligence" purposes.

Yet, that being illegal doesn't stop our government from doing it, now does it?

And let us discuss this code of laws by which we are supposed to live our lives.

Do you know all the law of the USA that pertain to you? If not, then how can you be reasonably expected to follow them?

That's like being expected to speak a language you've never heard before in your entire life.

[LanternWaste]

57. So's smoking pot...

So's smoking pot, and going two miles over the limit in a 65 zone.

[jtuck004]

75. Not necessarily. Especially for the technically challenged who have trouble

understanding, an analogy is getting a stock car then working on every part of it to understand and modify it. Sometimes it makes it better, sometimes worse. And sometimes it is driven into a crowd, but hardly ever.

The actual act of "hacking" is nothing more than finding the limits of software. Some, especially those that wish to use their power to control others, made it illegal, but they might as well make learning illegal. Some people have real problems with people learning on their own, especially where it challenges their power.

Where it crosses into the "illegal" realm is when the person has reached the limits of learning and begin to use it to help or hurt others. Then it becomes a moral discussion, far away from the technical realm, perhaps equivalent to when keeping people as posessions in this country was "legal".

[tekisui]

81. Illegal does not equal immoral.

Illegal does not mean it is not of worth or a force of good.

[icnorth]

86. *1000 n/t

[stockholmer]

103. +1000, Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi agree as well

If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." ~Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham Jail," Why We Can't Wait, 1963

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. ~Bishop Desmond Tutu

[rhett o rick]

93. As if you really didnt know. Spit it out. What do you really want to say? nm

[ZombieHorde]

105. Yes, hacking is illegal. If something is illegal, is it always bad? nt

[Bosso 63]

134. No.

If you took the door off an old refrigerator and used it as a bobsled, you hacked it.
It may be a bad idea,, but it is not a crime.

Hacking
(English verb to hack, singular noun a hack) refers to the re-configuring or re-programming of a system to function in ways not facilitated by the owner, administrator, or designer. The term(s) have several related meanings in the technology and computer science fields, wherein a "hack" may refer to a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem, or to what may be perceived to be a clumsy or inelegant (but usually relatively quick) solution to a problem, such as a "kludge".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_%28technology%29

What Anonymous did was probably a crime, but I think I will save my outrage for more pressing issues.

[rhett o rick]

160. Wasnt the Boston Tea Party illegal? nm

[leveymg]

4. KNR - Links to Anonymous posts. Just another reason I love DU.

[Dappleganger]

9. Anarchy is exciting/scary.

Exciting when it affects people you hate, scary when the bull is running at you.

[krabigirl]

51. Totalitarianism is also pretty damn scary. Would be nice to have something in between.

[disillusioned73]

11. k&r

:dem:

[Erose999]

15. You do realize that when Anonymous aren't editorializing about authoritarianism and its grip on the

interweb, that they are posting stuff like this on 4chan:



I mean, while they are a force for good, on an individual level a lot of them are jerks.

[Edweird]

30. So? You don't have to be as pure as the undriven snow to be on the right side of an issue.

[SidDithers]

47. 4chan != anonymous...

And anonymous != 4chan

There may be some overlap, but to equate the two is incorrect.

Sid

[girl gone mad]

52. "some overlap"

http://www.4chan.org/faq#anonymous

Born and raised.

[im1013]

76. Not all of them...

trust me.

:evilgrin:

[Call Me Wesley]

85. Heh!

;)

[Hydra]

53. You couldn't find a better advice dog?

Anon is what it is. Our gov't is what it is.

Freedom isn't cute and fluffy. Authoritarianism isn't clean and safe.

Which one do we like more? It's an important question.

[Call Me Wesley]

61. Everyone can post there,

and obviously, everyone does. To equate all users of 4chan with being Anonymous is pretty silly. Don't read /b/ too much. ;)

[SidDithers]

63. +1...nt

Sid

[Posteritatis]

77. "They" aren't even a "they."

Anyone referring to Anonymous as some kind of organization (notwithstanding that there's probably a few dozen groups of people claiming to be said group by now) just doesn't get it.

[Call Me Wesley]

84. Exactly.

And anyone referring to Anonymous constantly posting on 4chan doesn't get it either. Gathering points are also legion. ;)

[ZombieHorde]

111. They use the Discordian model. nt

[Posteritatis]

112. There'd have to be a they for them to do that. (nt)

[ZombieHorde]

117. That is the Discordian model. nt

[Nevernose]

98. You forgot

"And fucking with the Church of Scientology."

What I'm most impressed with are these people's ages: all the 4chan/anonymous people I've known (a few quite well, more tangentally) have been 12th graders, give or take a year or two. It's just heartwarming to me to see the kids today so active and involved, even if they do spend their free time photoshopping Osama bin Laden's face into granny-porn.

It makes me glad I spent so much class time discussing Thoreau.

[TroglodyteScholar]

104. Oh, my!

Unclean! Unclean!
To death row with all of them!

[JVS]

146. Oh my God! Skipping work and watching porn! That's as assholish as "I'd rather be fishing"!

[Urban Prairie]

22. I've seen Anonymous' handiwork on the Hutaree's website last year

after many of their militia's membership were arrested, and the news went viral.

They didn't deface the Hutaree's homepage or DDOS/crash the entire site, but the private portion of their messageboard forum was hacked into, and the open forum's threads had been infected with all sorts of viruses and spyware, along with some rather gruesome and disturbing images that were uploaded and posted in many of them.

[Catherina]

23. Back off. Anonymous is mine. He, her, all of them, don't care. All mine. Back TF off!

:hi:

[xchrom]

36. ...

:rofl:

[Raksha]

35. Updated article from Daily Kos:

Anon pwns HBGary Federal UPDATED w/PRESS RELEASE

by barrettbrown
Sun Feb 06, 2011 at 05:29:30 PM PST

Yesterday, I posted a press release noting that the Financial Times article that appeared yesterday and which drew on input from HBGary Federal employee Aaron Barr was laughably inaccurate. An hour ago, Anon seized control of the internet security firm's website, defaced its pages, acquired 60,000 company e-mails, deleted backup files, seized Barr's Twitter account, and took down the founder's website rootkit.com. Anonymous also acquired this document, which HBGary was set to provide to the FBI at a scheduled meeting tomorrow.

Update - Press release added below.

barrettbrown's diary :: ::

Like Barr's previous statements to FT, the entirety of his research is not only terrible, but in many cases less informative than is the public record. The entry on me, for instance, is entirely inaccurate despite the fact that I have not been a clandestine participant since coming out of the closet months ago.

As noted by Bernard Keane, the situation is rather hilarious. More to the point, it should demonstrate that HBGary Federal is not only incapable of protecting its clients and informing on folks who were among the first to get involved in Tunisia and Egypt - it is incapable of protecting itself.

Here are the 60,000 e-mails that were acquired today. Enjoy! NOTE: I'VE TAKEN DOWN THE LINK BECAUSE THOSE E-MAILS ALSO INCLUDE THOSE FROM HBGARY ITSELF, WHICH ONLY OWNS 15 PERCENT OF HBGARY FEDERAL. THE PRESIDENT, PENNY, GAVE ME A CALL AND WAS PRETTY NICE ABOUT IT. NEGOTIATIONS ARE ONGOING AMONG RELEVANT PARTIES.

I'll be posting additional updates and materials here over the next few minutes.

<snip>

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/2/6/20216/40699

[xchrom]

39. +1

[Oilwellian]

162. I came to your post earlier this morning....

have been away from computer til now and felt it was important to respond to something you posted. Here it is again:

As noted by Bernard Keane, the situation is rather hilarious. More to the point, it should demonstrate that HBGary Federal is not only incapable of protecting its clients and informing on folks who were among the first to get involved in Tunisia and Egypt - it is incapable of protecting itself.

These fuckers informed on the activists in Tunisia and Egypt. Who did they inform? Was it Mubarak? Also, if you go to the dailykos link, there is the actual document HBGary was going to sell to the FBI. Take a look at it folks. There are a lot of American names and addresses in it. These incompetent fuckers are fingering Americans as well. Things are REALLY getting out of hand in this country.

[sakabatou]

40. Why can't people learn that you don't fuck with Anon?

[Raksha]

44. I love Anonymous...they are the Robin Hood of cyberspace.

[Posteritatis]

120. "They" are also the Marquis de Sade of cyberspace, remember. (nt)

[SidDithers]

45. K&R...

Fucking awesome.

Sid

[Call Me Wesley]

58. I can't believe that Anonymous

used Times New Roman! ;)

Recced.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

59. ...could've been worse.

They could have used Comic Sans.

[Call Me Wesley]

62. Ewwwwww!!!!111!!!!

:rofl:

[icnorth]

90. Dear Mr. Fortune 500 Company...

I see your employees are in need of our services.

http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/

[Call Me Wesley]

91. Great website!

Thank you! :hi:

[icnorth]

92. You're welcome! n/t

[Poboy]

60. Recommend

[WillyT]

66. HUGE K & R !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:evilgrin:

:kick:

[Disintermedia8]

68. Dear Sir/Madam, thank you for posting this

Is this your screen cap? If so I doubly thank you, and ask if I may learn more about how how this happened.

Personally, I have renounced the way of anarchy and I have practically eliminated my desire for causing harm to those who have harmed us. But I have to be candid and admit that reading this brought a smile to my heart.

[gateley]

74. K&R! nt

[im1013]

78. Hugh K&R!

:toast:

[EFerrari]

80. I love the ones that fight back.

:)

[hugo_from_TN]

82. So we're for all this openess and exposing secrets by Wikileaks,

but we are against exposing the secret of who is behind anonymous.

Got it!

[Call Me Wesley]

87. 'We?'

I see some very different 'we's' in this thread. Don't count me in.

For me, honestly, there's a pretty difference between exposing war crimes or general crimes on humanity and infiltrating one's website or email. The ones who did the war crimes or crimes on humanity stay free, the 'hackers,' 'traitors,' or what you want to call them get prison time.

Wouldn't it be great we would live in a world without secrets? Without fear?

[walldude]

107. "The secret of who is behind anonymous".

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Clueless. THERE IS NO ONE BEHIND ANONYMOUS. This isn't some secret code they are using it's for real. There are no leaders, there are no followers. This isn't some organized group, they are hackers, they follow the old hacker code and they are playing the game better than anyone. If you don't like it, get out of the way. If you feel the need to try and stop them... good luck. :rofl:

[nomb]

115. Scary shit - I hope I'm never the target. I'm probably safe as long as I don't take a side anywhere.

[walldude]

124. I think it's safe to say that if you are on the side of the

righteous you have nothing to fear.

But.... if you want to be truly safe from hackers, befriend one. They will teach you how to protect yourself.

[nomb]

159. Who decides whose Righteous? I'll guess its the Strongest and most Ruthless.

[quakerboy]

143. So... they are what the tea party play at? except computer literate?

[walldude]

151. Uh yeah... right... just like the tea party..

you aren't surrounded by sharp objects are you?

[quakerboy]

154. Ah. Never mind

I just meant in terms of actually being a decentralized movementy kinda thing, rather than a top down. What the tea party likes to pretend it is, but really isn't. But on reflection I can see how that's a comparison that would be taken wrong within this thread. Hope you have a great day.

[ZombieHorde]

110. Honestly, why do you think some support both Wikileaks and Anonymous? nt

[Posteritatis]

118. I'm for remaining amused at peoples' colossal ignorance of the whole thing, though.

"Secret of who is behind Anonymous." As the youth say, ROFL.

[Hissyspit]

148. No, you don't got it.

WikiLeaks and anonymous are not government institutions. And people are not necessarily against "exposing" the "secret" behind anonymous.

[MadrasT]

88. I heart this. nt

[AmandaMae]

89. I love Anonymous.

[rhett o rick]

97. Dear anonymous, what I want for winter-holiday is for nasty stuff to be found on Karl Rove's hard

drive.

[Howler]

108. WOOT!!!!!!!

A bloodless Revolution!!!!! I love It.
Anonymous works for me.

[Disintermedia8]

109. I notice that the bulk of the thread

in particular one sub-thread, seems to be about distracting from the main, relevant issue. NB

on edit - one must ask oneself whether engaging in and amplifying the distraction is beneficial.

[snot]

136. +1

[snot]

137. +1

[babsbunny]

113. I bet He/She is cute

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

[SayitAintSo]

114. Hey Kiddo - miss talking to you about this stuff...

I know you are watching....

[mike_c]

119. anonymous ROCKS....

This is classic. Just classic. The absolute best way to take down a self-important "security consultant." :rofl:

[JackInGreen]

123. This may sound assinine

but I've come to think of the use of the LOIC as a tool of the virtual sit in.
In an electronic frontier, that has a storefront and lobby that can accommodate tens of thousands....the only way to peacefully halt and disrupt business through dis-obedience is to BLAM the hell out of em...so to speak...ahem :D

[PBS Poll-435]

125. It might be the Herpes

Or Syphilis.


Just sayin. Take a break and see your doctor.

[earcandle]

129. Ah. the American way, the one we love and adore is showing up in WikiLeaks and Anonymous.

No wonder I use a fictitious name in my art.  It is just more
free. 

[saras]

138. Why would any member of Anonymous allow you to meet them?

Hacking is, in general, not illegal To argue otherwise is to impose your own private definition of the word on others. The most positive interpretation of one's motivation in doing this would be the Dunning-Kruger effect.

It is possible to break a law, or a copyright, or a court order, or some other legal restriction, while hacking.

"Illegal does not equal immoral."
"Illegal does not mean it is not of worth or a force of good."
Illegal does not even necessarily mean 'important'.

"Skip work, watch porn"
Perfectly good advice for anyone whose work is doing more harm than good (which is a pretty large number of Americans). Every maker of military hardware who does this has made life better for the planet as a whole. For that matter, everyone who works in a polluting industry can improve the world by doing this. If they can't handle the real stuff, they can get kitty porn from cuteoverload.com

"'They'" are also the Marquis de Sade of cyberspace, remember. "
Stupidest, and most inappropriate, metaphor since Godwin's law. Just name a metaphorical orphanage they've burned down in order to rape, torture, and kill all the inhabitants. Bombing orphanages is something our government does, not Anonymous.

[Bryn]

144. K&R

Thank you, Anonymous :)

[rhett o rick]

156. I think one member might have a huge dragon tattoo on her back. Just sayin. nm

[rhett o rick]

157. This more than maybe any other issue flushes out those that stand with the oligarchs.

First let me give George Bush credit. There are really only two sides to the war for human survival, the have's and the have-not's, or the Ruling Class and the rest of us (the lower class).

Those that detest whistle-blowers side with the Ruling Class. They either dont recognize or dont care that whistle-blowers, while possibly doing something illegal themselves, are trying to point out when the Ruling Class is doing something illegal that wouldnt be found out otherwise.

I think the same applies to Anonymous.

[mdmc]

163. ..