So, the Mubarak regime attacked its populace today.

[EFerrari]

There were no "clashes" between opposing sides -- the state attacked the people. Hundreds of people have been injured, no fatalities reported yet.

That was a pretty stupid move as yesterday, Mubarak picked up a measure of support among people who fear hardship during this process. That support probably vanished after this act of aggression. When Mubarak next moves in to repress the people to "restore stability", everyone will see it for what it is, repression.

What can we do to help the Egyptian people defend against their homicidal government?

[snot]

1. For leverage, arrest Mubarek's wife and sons.

They're in London. Surely there are allegations against them at least as serious as those against Assange?

[elias49]

3. England doesn't have the balls. Nor the right for for that matter..

But it's a nice idea.

[snot]

7. If t.p.t.b. wanted it to happen . . .

[EFerrari]

13. They would be assigned security "for their own safety" in a heartbeat.

[Octafish]

45. Certainly. Ask Julian Assange.

The UK gov said he'd be protected, too.

[JuniperLea]

6. That would be stooping to their level...

There are international laws against such things.

[snot]

10. Hold it. Wife left with tons of gold; son's been part of corrupt regime for some time;

are there really no grounds for detaining them?

[JuniperLea]

18. Nope

No charges pending, no arrests are valid. Unless you want cowboy, saber rattling, BushCo "diplomacy" you need to follow the rules.

[snot]

51. I agree the rules should be followed; all I'm saying is,

those rules apparently allow Assange to be arrested and detained for months, merely for "questioning," based on no actual charges but solely on allegations that were previously allowed to drop.

Are you sure there's no basis to question Mubarek's wife and sons?

Or do you think Assange's detention is illegal?

[rhett o rick]

96. Whose rules? File charges and make an arrest. nm

[mcollins]

22. Take Hostages? Seriously?

very progressive of you.

[JuniperLea]

37. It's ok if WE do it...

Apparently.

:puke:

[snot]

54. Pls see my reply above.

As I said, I agree the rules should be followed; all I'm saying is, those rules apparently allow Assange to be arrested and detained for months, merely for "questioning," based on no actual charges but solely on allegations that were previously allowed to drop.

Are you sure there's no basis to question Mubarek's wife and sons?

Or do you think Assange's detention is illegal?

[JuniperLea]

62. Assange had charges against him...

Valid or not, there were charges. That made an arrest legal, regardless of the validity of the charges.

What charges would you like to see against Mubarak's wife and sons? They left the country with their own property. Now, clearly they shouldn't have been able to obtain such wealth under these circumstances, but that's beside the point.

If there is a specific action that was illegal, there should be charges made. As far as I know it's not illegal for most of us to travel internationally.

[EFerrari]

90. No, he didn't. His warrant said he was wanted for questioning. n/t

[sabrina 1]

91. No charges have yet been filed against Assange. It's amazing

that people still do not know that. Thanks for stating the facts.

[snot]

92. I don't believe there are/were charges against Assange now or at the time

the Interpol arrest warrant was issued, if there ever were. If you know otherwise, I'd appreciate a source.

As for legal bases for charges against Mubarek's wife and sons, no, I have no idea. Bur I see no harm in asking whether there might be. Hell, just put some kind of restriction on their movements, on the basis that they might know something about crimes by Mubarek.

I raise the question for many reasons.

I'd like to see Mubarek step down before more protesters die and before he has the chance to have more opponents killed and re-solidify his own position at the expense of his people.

And I'd like us to think creatively about what our government could be doing that might be effective as well as fair, besides making speeches.

[backscatter712]

25. No, no, no - those tactics are used only against little people and uppity rabble-rousers.

So you can only use such tactics against Assange, but not Mubarak...

[EFerrari]

46. There are action suggestions in #33, #36 and #37.

I'm sticking this here in case people don't want to wade through the bs below.

[sabrina 1]

94. There are supposedly the wife has made off with lots of money.

Assange was never charged in Sweden, just wanted for questioning. For not wearing a condom. I suppose, depending on your pov, that is a far greater potential crime than making off with millions of dollars of your country's money after your dictator hubby looks like he's ended the gravy train.

We must keep our priorities straight.

[leftstreet]

2. We must hold our leaders feet to the....

oh nevermind

:grr:

[JuniperLea]

5. Did you see the latest from the WH?

It's called diplomacy... and clearly it's the right thing to do.

[leftstreet]

8. The OP asked what we could do to help the Egyptian people

..not what the WH was doing

[JuniperLea]

12. I was responding to your post... not the OP... try again... eom

[leftstreet]

16. And I am deeply honored

And again, one of the only things people around the world can do right now for our Egyptian brothers and sisters is to pressure our leaders and diplomats to make Mubarak stfu and gtfo

[JuniperLea]

20. Well, your time would have been clearly better spent this morning...

By listening to the WH speak... because your wish has been granted. Obama is cutting off funds, and telling Mubarak he needs to step down, now.

Where do you want that goalpost moved to now?

[leftstreet]

24. That's good news indeed n/t

[Bragi]

36. Be honest. Nothing of the sort was said

You really are shameless.

Gibbs repeated the line at the briefing that the "transition" should begin "now" but refused to say if this meant Mubarak must leave "now" or stay and lead the "transition.

The WH continues to refuse to explicitly support the demands of the protesters that Mubarak leave now.

[EFerrari]

11. Balls. Allowing your "family friends" to set hundreds of armed thugs on a populace

is not diplomacy, it's collusion.

[JuniperLea]

14. Who do you want Obama to bomb?

Diplomacy isn't always pretty, but it's the right thing to do.

Obama is cutting off funding... yesterday a lot of people were screaming for that... goalpost moved... the hating is still on. Obama told Mubarak he needs to step down, now. Yesterday a lot of people were screaming for that as well... goalpost moved yet again.

Let me know when you decide what you really want.

[EFerrari]

19. In the interests of keeping my thread on topic, have a nice day. n/t

[JuniperLea]

21. I see how it goes...

You can say whatever, no one else has the right to free speech in "your" thread.

You need to figure out where you want the goalposts moved to next now that Obama has cut off the money and told Mubarak to step down... now.

What WE can do is support our President in his diplomacy... I don't see that happening in "your" thread.

[dionysus]

30. whatever it is, whatever obama does, won't be enough because ___________

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

41. what do you mean, "you people"

[EFerrari]

9. After staying up too late so many nights

my brain isn't working very well. I am emailing and tweeting the media asking, why are you reporting "clashes" when we can see it's Mubarak attacking his own people?

Clashes, my granny. :grr:

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raschel]

26. I caught that one too. "Clashes". What a joke.

And thank you on time spent calling the media out on this.

[bdamomma]

4. Mubarak using force on his own people and not

listening to the EU or international community to step down, desparate men take desperate measures.

for 8 days there was no violence, he is punishing his own people. what a dic!!!

[EFerrari]

17. Maybe if we lean on Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch

and the Committee to Protect Journalists, they will escalate their language to the White House? They have been good so far but maybe it's time to increase the volume.

[bdamomma]

50. if you get BBC news I thought I heard that Amnesty International

has been vocal on the situation in Egypt.

[EFerrari]

71. They have been great. And continue to issue strong statements

to all the governments involved. In fact, of all the NGOs, they have been the BEST. :)

[Raschel]

27. Sit back and just imagine yourself willing to allow people to die, your country to be in chaos,

all because of you. I can't comprehend that kind of evilness.

[EFerrari]

23. Some contact info: Urge these orgs to contact the White House TODAY:

Amnesty International Contact page: http://www.amnesty.org/en/contact

Human Rights Watch DC Contact page: http://www.hrw.org/en/contact-us#Washington

Committee to Protect Journalist, Contact info bottom of home page: http://www.cpj.org/

Reporters Without Borders Contact page: http://en.rsf.org/contact-us-24-04-2009,32615.html

[leftstreet]

28. ^ Good Links ^

Thanks

[EFerrari]

29. Ask media outlets via twitter why they are reporting "clashes" instead of

the regime's attack on its own people.

@aje
@cnn
@bbc
@bencnn
@ggreenwald
@jeremyschahill
@democracynow
@iDeskCNN

Copy @amnesty

[KharmaTrain]

33. They Are Framing It As An Attack By Mubarak's People

and that's what the perception appears to be. This is a desperate move from a despot who has no real barometer regarding the people and overplayed his hand. This move will ultimately backfire as his own internal power base continues to erode. I think this administration is playing it close to the vest and deservedly so...working and communicating with the military who will ultimately have the final say. There's definitely internal pressure on Mubarak and this move will up the ante. His hold on power are now numbered in days or hours.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

35. "Clashes" in Egypt"

#
Clashes marr Egypt protests
Clashes have broken out in Egypt between supporters and opponents of President Hosni Mubarak. Dozens of injuries have been reported near Tahrir Square, the scene of massive peaceful demonstrations yesterday to call for Mubarak to leave office.
EuroNews - Feb 02 04:21am

* Soldier killed, at least 403 wounded in Egypt clashes - New York Post
* Clashes Erupt in Egypt Protests - The Atlantic Wire via Yahoo! News
* Violent clashes in Egypt; EU, US appeal for calm - Summary - EARTHtimes.org
* all 303 news articles…

#
Egypt clashes turn deadly as Mubarak supporters storm Cairo rally
Partisans of President Hosni Mubarak stormed a crowded anti-regime rally in central Cairo on Wednesday, sparking pandemonium in which at least 500 people were hurt and one killed, witnesses said.
AFP via Yahoo! News - 1 hour, 12 minutes ago

* Egypt: Clashes erupt between protesters and Mubarak supporters - Daily Mail
* Egypt: clashes between protesters and Mubarak supporters - Channel 4
* Egypt: Clashes erupt after Mubarak's speech - 3news
* all 1543 news articles…

#
Egypt clashes weighing on stocks
Fighting on the streets of Cairo weighed on sentiment Wednesday, pushing stocks down from earlier highs, while the euro eased from three-month highs against the dollar after a ratings downgrade of Ireland.
AP via Yahoo! Finance - 2 hours, 34 minutes ago

* Fierce clashes rock Egypt capital - BBC News
* US urges restraint in Egypt as clashes continue - TVNZ
* Tensions erupt in violent Egypt clashes - Herald Sun
* all 73 news articles…

#
NewsWatch: Oil futures spike as clashes in Egypt worsen
March crude oil rallies, overcoming earlier weakness, as worsening clashes in Egypt propel prices higher.
Market Watch - 2 hours, 18 minutes ago

* Oil up 1%, gold trims loss as Egypt clashes worsen - Market Watch
* Futures Movers: Oil futures seesaw as worries about Egypt fade - Market Watch
* all 3 news articles…

#
Brits Tell Of Egypt Clashes As Plane Is Chartered
Britons returning home have given dramatic accounts of violence in Egypt as the UK government charters a flight to bring more people back.
SkyNews via Yahoo! UK & Ireland News - Feb 01 09:47am
#
Egypt official says one killed, 600 injured in Cairo clashes
Egyptian state TV warns protesters to "evacuate immediately" the square in central Cairo that anti-government demonstrators have held for days ...
USA Today - Feb 02 06:08am

* Clashes in Cairo as govt spurns early transition - AFP via Yahoo! News
* Clashes Erupt in Cairo Between Mubarak’s Allies and Foes - International Herald Tribune
* The Army Arrives: Reports From the Streets as Clashes Erupt in Cairo - The Atlantic Wire via Yahoo! News
* all 164 news articles…

#
UN boss and UK PM condemn Egypt clashes
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon says that any attacks on peaceful demonstrators in Egypt are unacceptable.
Sky News Australia - Feb 02 08:21am
#
US condemns violence in Egypt, chides government
The United States criticized the government of President Hosni Mubarak and condemned violence in Egypt's capital as clashes between protesters and pro-government supporters demonstrated there would be no easy resolution to the unrest destabilizing America's closest ally in the Arab world.
AP via Yahoo! News - 1 hour, 31 minutes ago

* US 'concerned' at Egypt violence - BBC News
* US condemns violence in Egypt, chides government over arrests, press restrictions - The Canadian Press via Yahoo! Canada News
* U.S. condemns violence in Egypt, chides government - The Washington Times
* all 71 news articles…

#
Currencies: Dollar gains ground as clashes in Egypt worsen
The dollar pushed the euro down from a nearly three-month high and the British pound pared gains.
Market Watch - Feb 01 10:05pm

* FOREX-Euro zone, Egypt uncertainty nudge euro lower - Reuters UK Focus via Yahoo! UK & Ireland Finance
* FOREX-Euro zone uncertainty hits euro, dollar still weak - Reuters UK Focus via Yahoo! UK & Ireland Finance
* RPT-FOREX-Euro zone uncertainty hits euro, dollar still weak - Reuters via Yahoo! Singapore News
* all 10 news articles…

#
Egypt: Clashes as Pro-Mubarak Forces Try to Take Tahrir Square
Supporters of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak clashed Wednesday with opposition protesters after marching into the anti-regime rally in Tahrir Square.
AllAfrica.com - Feb 02 04:57am

* UK's Cameron: Egyptian reform must happen faster - AP via Yahoo! News
* Attacks on protestors 'unacceptable' - Bangkok Post - Thailand's English news
* U.K.’s Cameron Urges Peaceful Reforms in Egypt in CNN Interview - BusinessWeek
* all 6 news articles…

[EFerrari]

31. Contact State Department and demand they move to protect protesters today:

@PJCrowley
@StateDept

Public Communications 202-647-6575

Email contact page: http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=tsAuMDlk&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD05MSw5MSZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE!

[mcollins]

42. How would they do that?

I am asking honestly here. Send in US troops? Do you think that would help or hurt the situation?

What could the US do to protect the people in Egypt that wouldn't make the situation worse?

[EFerrari]

43. The State Department can't deploy troops. Thank God.

:)

[mcollins]

84. Do you think that Hillery would deploy the 82nd division?

if she could?

[EFerrari]

32. Contact White House and demand they move to protect protesters TODAY:

Email Contact page: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

@whitehouse

Phone Numbers

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

[JuniperLea]

38. I see...

This thread isn't about the WH or Obama until you say so...

[EFerrari]

40. This thread is in support of the protesters in Egypt.

Are you finished disrupting here? If not, please put everything in this subthread.

[Bragi]

44. Agreed

There are other threads cheering on Obama for his refusal to explicitly support back the protesters demand that Mubarak leave now -- not in September after his term expires.

[JuniperLea]

47. How is it disrupting to try and get people to focus on TODAY'S news...

Instead of rehashing yesterday's? How is it disrupting to try to get the goalposts cemeted?

[EFerrari]

52. The activists I'm following in Cairo say, this is not yesterday's news, thanks!

And thanks so much for keeping my thread kicked.

[walldude]

48. I'm watching some breaking news of

pro-Mumbarak people on horses and camels running through the crowd whipping people.... So much for clashes subsiding... The protesters aren't going anywhere until Mumbarak steps down. He's already lost when he lost the military, now it's just a matter of how many people he's willing to try to kill to remain in office.

Last week Joe Biden came out and sung the praises of the man I just described. These are the kinds of people we make our allies? These are the kinds of people we support financially?

[L. Coyote]

49. Check your facts people. Review the events of the day here:

***** EGYPT Live Blog ***** Al Jazeera English: Live Stream Feb. 2 *****
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x324590

I watched the hurling of bricks, roof tiles, chairs, Molotavs, and more from rooftops onto the protesters LIVE on Al Jazeera. Those watching LIVE all day know exactly what is going on, irrespective of how diverse opinions are allowed to be expressed on Al Jazeera.

[inna]

53. K&R. Just saw this terrifying update:

Molly_Elian: RT @HerMaeness: I think with the constant rise in death and injury toll we can stop calling them 'clashes' now. Alt.: massacre, carnage, bloodbath.. #Jan25
4 minutes ago via Chromed Bird · Reply · View Tweet

http://twitter.com/HerMaeness/status/32891429969727488



Are there really deaths????

[EFerrari]

55. Two hours ago, I saw "hundreds injured" but no fatalities reported yet.

Will go check. It's possible. These thugs have total impunity.

[L. Coyote]

56. Today, one killed and 600 injured during attacks on the protest in Tahrir Square

[EFerrari]

57. TY, L. n/t

[EFerrari]

68. Dr on AJ says 1000 casualties. Probably closer to right than Health Ministry

@weddady weddady
by DotDotDotDash
Doctor on Aljaz: "over 1000 casualties" #Jan25
4 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/weddady/status/32901922142822400

[EFerrari]

60. Perspective:

jimsciuttoABC jim sciutto
Egypt death toll now tops toll for Iran protests, which US and West widely condemned as an atrocity #Egypt #Iranelection #Jan25
4 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[inna]

63. wow. Sometimes it takes many hours (if not days) to

get accurate injury/death counts. It's frightening to see this unfold; it's maddening, too, since Egypt is effectively a client state, and protesters are being shot with Made in the USA (and paid for by the American taxpayers) bullets/tear gas/etc.

[EFerrari]

65. Yes. So whatever pressure we can continue to apply, we should.

The protesters in Cairo are under a lot of stress, hundreds now injured, too. They need all the support they can get.

[inna]

69. Yes. I'm with you, all the way. nt

[wisteria]

58. I know you want to report and believe the worst, but where is your link to back up

your accusations.

[EFerrari]

61. It's everywhere.

@AlArabiya_Eng Al Arabiya English
The number of people wounded in violence in Cairo increases to 611 from 403, the health minister says #Egypt #Cairo #Jan25 #Protests

Go look at AJE's homepage for text and video reports.

http://english.aljazeera.net/


http://twitter.com/#!/AlArabiya_Eng/status/32892918855512064

[EFerrari]

66. Amnesty: There is organized violence by Egyptian authorities

AMNESTY: There is an organised violence by Egyptian authorities to put an end to the protests.

8 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/nalshaikh/status/32899266682822657

[harun]

73. Believe the worst? What are you even talking about. Links below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x324590

http://www.democracynow.org/

http://www.blogslut.com/blogslut/

[bobthedrummer]

59. Reclaim our own government from TPTB n/t

[EFerrari]

64. Hard Days Ahead -- video of club wielding thugs on camels charging into protesters

http://tim-theegyptians.blogspot.com/2011/02/hard-days-ahead.html

[fadedrose]

67. Wonder if they had outside help . . .eom

[EFerrari]

70. The idea was to frighten protesters so badly they would go home

as our torture partner, the new Vice President, is asking them to do.

[myrna minx]

72. Thank you for this thread. K&R n/t

[EFerrari]

75. Last night I accidently came upon a twitter feed

that retweets one group of core Cairo activists. After reading that, it's not enough to watch. :grouphug:

[myrna minx]

81. I know - it's so compelling. My heart is pounding for them

and I feel like I'm holding my breath. :grouphug: Your posts have been so helpful and informative as always. Thank you.

[EFerrari]

74. AJ: Gunfire, petrol bombs still ongoing now.

Jan25 twitter feed says, Sec Clinton and White House amping up pressure on Mubarak.

Please let's help encourage them to keep it up.

Action links up thread.

:kick:

[malaise]

76. The last gasp of a desperate scoundrel

Fuck Mubarak :puke:

[EFerrari]

78. HIs people are blocking ambulances from Tahrir.

:puke:

[myrna minx]

82. Good god -

:cry:

[spanone]

77. friday could really be ugly.....

[EFerrari]

79. Yes. n/t

[EFerrari]

80. Injured updated to 1,500. Now would be a good time to get on twitter,

to send an email or make a call.

:kick:

[EFerrari]

83. FB sign up for worldwide protest FRIDAY.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=158147054233898

[autorank]

85. Thanks Liz k*r

This is what we'd expect from a known torturer who lets his people starve and die while he enriches his family and sets his son up to be the next "president."

That's why the demonstrators say, just go now.

[Generic Other]

86. "He gassed his own people" : we hanged the last man who did that

Mubarak needs to step down now before he is dragged through the streets by the angry mob.

[EFerrari]

89. His calculations are very badly off. n/t

[Poboy]

87. Recommend

[Solly Mack]

88. K&R

[upi402]

93. Mubarek is a thug -out loud.

Hillary needs to dump him, Obama needs to speak out again.

[EFerrari]

95. We need a new action thread, folks.

Anyone want to start one?

:kick: