Hospital refuses liver transplant for medical marijuana patient

[DreamSmoker]

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles has denied a liver transplant to a patient with inoperable liver cancer because he uses medical marijuana. But the marijuana was prescribed by the very same hospital, according to the advocacy group Americans for Safe Access (ASA).

Sixty-three year-old Norman B. Smith was diagnosed with inoperable liver cancer in 2009. His oncologist at Cedars-Sinai, Dr. Steven Miles, approved of his medical marijuana use as a means to deal with the effects of chemotherapy and pain from an unrelated back surgery.

In September 2010, Smith became eligible for a liver transplant, but after testing positive for marijuana in February he was removed from the transplant list due to non-compliance with the hospital’s substance abuse contract. Smith was within two months of receiving a transplant before he was de-listed.

He is scheduled to undergo radiation treatments in the next few days.

ASA Chief Counsel Joe Elford in a letter urged the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center to change its transplant eligibility policy, which ran counter to the hospital’s stated mission of “providing the highest quality patient care that modern medicine has to offer.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/17/hospital-refuses-liver-transplant-for-medical-marijuana-patient/



So a Pharmacist can refuse to give meds on Moral grounds...
Now Hospitals can refuse services because you smoke Cannabis for relief of Pain and other nasty symptoms?????
OMG.. Is this more of the Change we can believe in?????
Just more Slice, dice, separate and Persecution tactics..
Mirrors the Politics of America Today...

Bottom line is this Hospital is playing politics with Americans lives based on pure politics and not proven science at all....

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Sounds fine to me. nt

[dionysus]

3. why? the same damn hospital prescribed him the herb!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. I with you on this one

These guys need to all sing from the same hymnal.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

25. Why does this sound fine to you?

[City Lights]

27. Why is that? Please explain. Thanks in advance.

:-)

[Taverner]

33. Of course. Because Marijuana's BAAAD

BAAAA BAAAA BAAAAD

:crazy:

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. No, but there are plenty of people who don't take drugs that need livers.

It's pretty simple.

My father needed a liver, but he was denied one because of the antidepressant he was on. Because it taxes the liver, you see.

[Taverner]

36. So how much is a human life worth?

Which humans are better to save than others?

Is a pot smoker worth less than a non-pot smoker?

Your bias is showing.

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. I would say that someone who does not tax the new liver is more worthy.

Do you remember the controversy around Mickey Mantle and his alcoholism re: liver transplant?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WCGreen]

40. The same thing happened to David Crosby who had to stay clean

in order to get his new liver...

[Dreamer Tatum]

44. You mean he's a victim of FASCISM???

:eyes:

[JuniperLea]

42. See if you can find anything that says The Weed

Taxes the liver... that's the point. It doesn't.

[Taverner]

45. Exactly!

See we agree on stuff sometimes :)

[JuniperLea]

52. Yes we do...

I'm not unreasonable... or you'd be on my ignore list!

:rofl:


I keeeeeed!

[Dreamer Tatum]

46. Anything you ingest into your bloodstream requires the liver. The real issue here is the holy weed.

If we were talking about alcohol, there would be no controversy. Since we are talking about MM,
a substance safer than OXYGEN, evidently, we get into these squabbles. Silly.

[JuniperLea]

49. No, not silly at all...

MM is a drug like any other... some cause damage, some don't. There is no evidence that MM causes problems for a healthy liver. None.

[Dreamer Tatum]

51. If we were talking about healthy livers, you might have a point. nt

[JuniperLea]

69. Jesus God... try to keep up...

The reason they want drugs to stop is so the new liver isn't ruined! Why replace a healthy liver? Jeez! We are talking about replacing a diseased liver!!!

[Taverner]

56. Evan an unhealthy liver would not be affected

By the time your liver gets the oils in cannabis, it's pretty similar to other oils high in Omega-6 Fatty Acids (Hemp oil, Evening Primrose Oil, etc) All of the THC, CBD and CBN has been extracted and has gone to the brain.

[JuniperLea]

70. I was cutting the pointy headed one some slack...

The studies I am citing were done on animals... but I believe you. Mary J does more help than harm, I'm convinced.

[Maine-ah]

47. shit, anybody who needs some kind of transplant

is on some kind of drugs. This person was PRESCRIBED the medical MJ.

I hope that they don't deny my Mom her lung transplant because a doctor prescribed her codeine and Valium. Nobody should be denied if what they were/are taking is prescribed medicine.

[Dreamer Tatum]

53. Sweet jesus on a cracker.

I hope you never learn what one has to do in order to prepare their body for a
transplant and what they must do to ensure that it isn't rejected.

[Maine-ah]

65. my mother was a saint.

never smoked, very rarely drank, never smoked pot or any other illegal substances. Lung transplant is our last chance. We're still learning about everything that she has to do.

[JuniperLea]

71. Best of luck to your mom...

And the whole family.

Most of the people I know who have had serious illness fit in your mom's category. I think the Earth is just too poluted for life anymore.

:hugs:

[Maine-ah]

76. the docs at Brigham and Women's

think that the cause of her disease is environmental. She's going in for her biopsy on the 29th. This is a four hour road trip for us. I've been taking care of her full time for almost three months. 7 years ago, her lungs were clear. Now, her lungs look like honey combs. Looks like end stage pulmonary fibrosis. Her CT's show her lungs completely white. She's 67 years old, and that may hold us back from getting a transplant. When we moved here in 1986, both of my parents were healthy. Two weeks of living here and suddenly my father had asthma. He died in 1995, just before his 50th birthday.

Maine, the tail pipe of the nation.

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. Maybe you should get in touch with the oncologist, then?

Seeing as he OKed the use of medical marijuana. And what has marijuana got to do with organ rejection? The transplant group itself "noted that studies have found marijuana use did not adversely affect liver transplantation." You seem to be claimed medical knowledge that no-one else, even the hospital, has.

[krabigirl]

64. cannabis use doesn't damage the liver.

[frylock]

59. i'm sure that it does

[krabigirl]

63. ........

[Vincardog]

2. Change we can believe in became=> Chains we have to live with

[dionysus]

5. i like it how it only took 4 posts to make this about obama...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Vincardog]

7. The OP "OMG.. Is this more of the Change we can believe in?????" It did not take 4 posts

[Davis_X_Machina]

12. It *never* takes as many as four.

Obama's got Kevin Bacon beat all hollow.

[dionysus]

15. good catch...

[HereSince1628]

4. Using an Rx from the hospital is drug abuse...sounds like litigation

is possible unless they can show he didn't follow the dosage directions.

[elleng]

8. Hate to promote litigation, more like promote rational application of their rules,

and threaten consequences because Cedars doctor prescribed the med and Cedars should NOT apply its prohibition in this situation.

[HereSince1628]

10. I think that outcome would follow litigation.

Litigation doesn't necessarily mean suing for monetary damages, it just means suing...

for a person with cancer, filing litigation and following up with trial by media could certainly be a way of cutting through the bureaucracy and restoring your place on the transplant list.

[elleng]

14. I understand; I'm a lawyer.

Actual litigation takes a long time, whatever remedy is sought. MUCH BETTER to BEGIN w 'trial by media,' imo.

[Ohio Joe]

6. I'm all for legalizing...

and I'm not pleased with Obama's policies but... This hospitals policies are his fault... How exactly?

[RainDog]

19. because the Obama administration continues to state the lie that cannabis has no medical value

the policy at the hospital requires no drug use. the patient was using mmj to help keep down his anti-cancer meds (and was about to undergo radiation therapy again.)

the reason cannabis is considered a drug is because of the scheduling of cannabis. this scheduling (as something having no medical value and therefore more dangerous than cocaine and morphine) is determined by the DEA but could be changed by the Attn Gen. tomorrow without consultation with the DEA.

since evidence is overwhelming that cannabis does, indeed, have medical benefit, the drug scheduling as it is endangers the lives of cancer patients.

Obama does not support a change in the drug laws regarding cannabis and has issued statements to that effect this year, and more than once... then said.. okay, well, certain compounds may have medicinal value - and that's because of the pharmas that want to reschedule their versions of WHOLE PLANT, non-synthetic cannabis, ala Sativex, and synthetic cannabinoids.

this is the third patient, since 2008, to be denied a transplant because they used cannabis for medical purposes. the other two died.

the ENTIRE reason they were refused treatment is because cannabis is falsely scheduled as a drug with no medical value and high potential for abuse. both of these statements are lies.

more people have requested that Obama respond to this inequity than any other issue, year after year. he ignores them and ignores the science that indicates the position of the federal govt is a lie. since Obama, Bush, Clinton and sitting members of Congress all inhaled and all know current lies are a lie, it's a bit disturbing to see such lies continue to be used as a way to kill people by a failure to change the law when this is an issue that a lot of people care about. since Mitch Daniels was a drug dealer, not just user, in college, it seems rather arbitrary that the law never seems to impact the rich.

[Ohio Joe]

20. That is not what the article says

"the ENTIRE reason they were refused treatment is because cannabis is falsely scheduled as a drug with no medical value and high potential for abuse."

The article says:

"In a letter sent to Smith in May, the director of Cedars-Sinai’s Liver Transplant Program said that the liver transplant center “must consider issues of substance abuse seriously since it does often play a role in the evolution of diseases that may require transplantation, and may adversely impact a new organ after a transplant.”"

I'm not in any way endorsing any truth to this statement, my point is that this is the reason given to de-list this guy had nothing to do with anything from Obama. The hospital can change this whenever they want without anything from Obama.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy being de-listed and not given the transplant is a fucking crime... literally, the people making this decision should be prosecuted. I am not just pro-MMJ, I feel it should be legal and regulated as alcohol and cigs. I also think that Obama should stop marching the cause back-wards. I do however, like to put blame where it belongs and in this case it belongs with the hospital. There are no laws I'm aware of and no government regs preventing them from doing the transplant, only their own policy.

[RainDog]

29. Use of cannabis is considered substance abuse b/c of federal scheduling

any use of cannabis is considered substance abuse - even medical use - by the federal govt. this reality, that the feds are lying about this issue, informs the hospital policy.

this is not the only hospital that follows the federal law concerning what constitutes drug abuse.

if hospitals or insurance cos or whatever decide someone is a poor potential transplant recipient based upon the view that drug abuse would hurt someone's chance of survival, then, yes, absolutely the current scheduling of cannabis as something with no medical value, as something that is abused simply because it is used - even when used in a medically-supervised setting, as with this patient and his oncologist, then, CLEARLY the drug laws themselves are the reason three patients were denied transplants.

even with medical care and transplant decisions there are cost/benefit analysis. the current scheduling skew the cost/benefit analysis in relation to cannabis.

in this particular case, you have a substance that is now considered highly beneficial for cancer patients. yet you have a federal govt that refuses to acknowledge this and that expends an enormous amount of money sustaining this lie.

when the feds threatened to come down on govt. employees that issued licenses for medical marijuana dispensaries, the fed. govt was also interfering with patients' capacity to obtain medical treatment - again based upon lies.

this happens again and again in a variety of ways - the false scheduling has repercussions b/c of financial decisions institutions make that are directly the result of this irrational view of cannabis at the federal level.

I don't think you're against medical marijuana or not. I was just noting that the reality is NONE OF THE CLAIMS of abuse would have any merit if federal drug scheduling reflected reality. but it doesn't.

so, yes, that makes these situations the direct result of failed policy regarding cannabis.

[frylock]

60. very well stated..

both of your posts.

[Ohio Joe]

72. All well and good but it does not address the point

The closest you come to the real point is "informs the hospital policy"... Though I've seen nothing to indicate if that is true one way or the other. In my view, the rest is irrelevant as far as who is responsible for this guy being de-listed. I agree with all of your points except that none of them have any bearing on who is de-listing the guy and that is the hospital. Nothing Obama has done stops the hospital in any way from keeping the guy on the list or performing the surgery. No laws, no threats, no lawsuits... Nothing. Not even the hospital is trying to move the blame to the feds but rather accepting it themselves, they admit they made the choice.

[valerief]

11. Republican healthcare. If you get sick, die quickly. --Alan Grayson, truthist. nt

[krabigirl]

66. this has nothing to do with political parties.

[kestrel91316]

13. Betcha the person in charge of that policy/decision is a RWer/teabagger.

[frylock]

61. the person in charge of that policy/decision resides in the white house..

i'll leave it up to you to determine that person's political ideology.

[krabigirl]

68. Judging by the "judgey" responses on this forum, it could just as easily be a Democrat.

both parties are full of fascists.

[undeterred]

16. Its hard for a 63 year old to qualify for a liver anyway, isn't it?

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. Hospitals can't prescribe meds, only doctors can

And doctors can't proscribe pot, as it is a Schedule I Controlled Substance.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

23. The article never said that either the hospital or doctor prescribed marijuana

Read more carefully, you'll see it.

[RainDog]

24. doctors most certainly can legally recommend cannabis for medical use

in states in which laws have been passed that allow the medical use of cannabis.

the reason doctors recommend rather than prescribe is because the federal govt threatens them with the loss of their license if they were to actually prescribe a medicine that, cancer specialists most especially, know is beneficial for patients to ameliorate side effects from chemotherapy and to avoid wasting syndrome - a situation in which patients who might benefit from cancer therapy no longer receive the same because the therapy would kill them because they cannot feed their bodies when they're throwing up everything they eat.

so, again, the problem is the federal intransigence in the face of fact that the current federal law is a lie. Doctors are forced to pretend such law has value b/c their own professional standing is at stake and evaluated by people who have no medical authority to punish them - the only authority the federal govt has in this issue is a 70 year history of lies.

[Irishonly]

18. When did hospitals get to become judge, jury and executioner?

It's wrong. I wonder if the PTB in the hospital are smugly thinking what fine upstanding people they are?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. At the point when they had more people needing livers than livers to give. N.T.

[Irishonly]

22. That horrifies me n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

26. Carry a donor card. Not much else that can be done about it, sadly. N.T.

[Irishonly]

28. It is sad

:(

[ieoeja]

30. My brother had difficult getting Hep-C treatments because of *past* drug use.

Nurse practitioner was all friendly until he mentioned that he probably got Hep-C from when he was a drug user many years previously. Her demeanor changed. And she quickly discovered that he was not healthy enough for the treatment. This went on for a few months before he had a followup with the doctor who sent him for the treatment in the first place. The doctor was ... displeased with the nurse practitioner, and got him started on his treatment right away.

FYI: treatments seem to have worked. No signs of Hep-C in the years since.

[Abq_Sarah]

31. Many hospitals will reject medical marijuana patients

As transplant candidates. One of the reasons is a fear that the patient will continue smoking after the transplant, putting them at risk for aspergillosis since their immune system is being suppressed. The reason for that fear is a tendency among medical professionals to classify MM smokers as having an addictive personality.

[Irishonly]

34. Why does everyone assume medical patients smoke?

What if the patient used a vaporizer, ate it or used an oil?

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. It makes no difference. Some part of it is processed by the liver. nt

[JuniperLea]

43. Just about everything is processed by the liver...

But not everything has a bad effect... not finding one thing that says MJ screws with the liver at all...

[Dreamer Tatum]

50. I've been through this with people who didn't rely on Google for medical knowledge, thanks. nt

[JuniperLea]

54. Well now you've had discussions with people...

Who get their medical knowledge from doctors and nurses.

So ask them. A diseased liver can suffer damange from MM... a healthy liver will not.

[Dreamer Tatum]

55. The point is arcing over your head, as usual.

Would you like me to list the things BESIDES MARIJUANA that one has to give up to help the body accept a new liver?

It's a pretty benign list.

[junkiebrewster]

57. no offense, friend

But you're missing a point too. A doctor is the one who recommended the MM in the first place. Obviously, his liver was healthy enough to withstand it then. Now, if they said, "Yes, you can use MM, but stop after this time, because you can't use it while waiting for a liver transplant," or if they told him, "yes, MM would help you, but it will affect your chances at a transplant, so we recommend you don't use it" and the guy didn't comply, then yes, you have a point. But given that the doctor in charge of his care greenlit the use in the first place, then I don't see how this would differ from any other drug the doctors prescribe to people waiting for a transplant.

My real question is did the doctors warn him that this would affect his chances or was that not even mentioned?

[JuniperLea]

67. That's beside the point...

Not unlike the one on your head.

[Irishonly]

80. I have to have blood tests several times a year

beause of 'traditional' medications. Does that mean I would not qualify for a transplant?

[Uncle Joe]

32. Kicked and recommended to highlight f*%^ing insanity!

Thanks for the thread, DreamSmoker.

[JuniperLea]

41. it makes sense for alcoholics...

But The Weed doesn't mess with the liver!

This is ridic.

[ecstatic]

48. They drug test mothers pre-delivery as well

I wonder if they do that for all surgeries?

[TorchTheWitch]

74. of course they do and damn good thing, too

Surgery no matter how minor can kill you. Prior to any surgery they need to evaluate what's in your blood to determine any possible risks or complications either during the surgery or after and to determine the best pre-op and post-op meds and what anesthesia to use. Of course they'd do a thorough blood screening pre-surgery and of course they'd screen for recreational drugs particularly since people aren't so likely to admit they use them. The same thorough blood screens are done pre-op on pets, too, though I doubt they screen for recreational drugs (come to think of it they probably should since there are plenty of people that think it's fun to get their pet stoned).

[WillyT]

58. K & R !!!

:kick:

[krabigirl]

62. there's a death panel right there.

[valerief]

73. Yes, the Republican healthcare plan. If you get sick, die quickly. That death panel. nt

[riderinthestorm]

75. My sister's on the liver transplant list right now. I just got back from SF and their training

sessions for the support team.

NOBODY is allowed to be on any substance that may interfere with the surgery, the new transplant, or the anti-rejection drugs. My sister has her blood monitored weekly for ALL substances and transplant candidates are given instructions MULTIPLE times on what is NOT allowed. Cannabis is very high on the NOT allowed list.

Since transplants are almost always a "team" decision with many, many specialists participating in the decision whether to allow a candidate to remain on the list - it appears that this doctor did not follow protocol. Gifts of Life is the national governing agency and they will absolutely NOT allow any substance like MJ since it can be so toxic to the fragile body systems during this process. My sister love licorice and was using that as a snack but she tested positive for that chemical and was immediately de-listed as it's on the "absolutely forbidden list". Licorice! Within a week of abstaining from it, she tested "clean" and was back on the list, in her same spot.

I'm wondering if this is a rogue doc who was trying to challenge the system....

Honestly, as soon as he tests clean, he'll be right back on the list in his same spot. Transplants are done almost exclusively on a MELD score basis (look it up on Google, I'm not going into all the details) and with liver cancer, his MELD score is going to be pretty high. He'll get his transplant within the 2 months but he's going to have to go off the pot and stay off it, permanently. In California (I learned) most liver transplants are done with a MELD score of 36 - 39/40. That means that successful transplants are done on very, very sick patients. Incredibly enough, the "sicker" you are, the higher you go on the list. This guy will be fine and he will get his transplant but he MUST get off the pot.

They don't fuck around with transplants. And they shouldn't. They are rare and precious.

[and-justice-for-all]

78. That is total bullshit...Him and his Dr, should sue.

it was perscibed, it was not used illegally, so removing him from the transplant list is unjustified.

[pitohui]

79. they should have disclosed this would make him ineligible for a liver

having a drink of a legal drug (alcohol) also makes you ineligible for a new liver

they should have honestly informed the guy that, legal or not, certain substances mean they'll take you off the list and you're FUCKED

then he could decide if the pain relief was actually worth dying for