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A reelected Pres. Obama will likely meet the 2014 deadline to remove most troops from Afghanistan

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:52 AM
Original message
A reelected Pres. Obama will likely meet the 2014 deadline to remove most troops from Afghanistan
Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 10:09 AM by bigtree
I'm reasoning this because there's a patten of activity right now in Afghanistan which resembles the 'declare success and get out' approach President Obama just demonstrated in his decision to move forward with the Iraq withdrawal ahead of schedule; despite the ongoing conflicts and possibly escalating violence in the war-torn nation.

First I'd start with the reported 'planning' by the Pentagon to move forward with their handover and pullback from their self-defined 'litmus test' in the Kandahar region. It hasn't happened yet, and there's a great deal of protest reported from the locals we put in place to manage things in the wake of our forces' deadly and costly assault on Marjah and our occupation of Kandahar City.

from a Nov. 2 AP report: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/nov/02/as-afghanistan/

"Lawmakers from Kandahar said Tuesday that Afghan forces are far from ready to assume full security responsibility in the province that was the birthplace of the Taliban, stressing it should be among the last regions where NATO forces hand over control to Afghan counterparts . . ."

"The Kandahar legislators fear their province will be on the second list that President Hamid Karzai is expected to announce in the coming weeks as regions where security is to be handed over to Afghan forces."

However . . .

"Instead of a six-stage transition process, U.S. Marine Gen. John Allen, the coalition's top commander in the country, has said the plan is to now achieve the transition in five steps, with the last starting as early as the fall of 2013 instead of later that year or early 2014."

"Initially, the idea was to have Afghan security forces take charge in the most peaceful areas first. But Allen said in a recent interview with The Associated Press that Afghan, coalition officials and others recently decided it would be unwise to transfer the most volatile provinces in 2014, when the international force's footprint will be shrinking."


So, the commanders on the ground are already planning forward to 2013 and 2014, with little regard for the chaos, violence and danger they've bequeathed to Kandahar, and even moving their transition date forward to accommodate the anticipated reduction in force.

Already, the rhetoric about 'success' is being allowed to rise above their own bleak report to Congress in which they claim gains, yet report that civilians have died in record numbers under our military forces' supposed protection and that their 'goals' may not be achieved as planned.

A summary of bullet points from the Pentagon report from Ahmad Shuja at UNDispatch: http://www.undispatch.com/how-the-american-military-sees-its-campaign-in-afghanistan-progressing

--Transition remains on track with no demonstrated effort by the insurgency to target the process.
--International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and its Afghan partners have made important security gains, reversing violence trends in much of the country (except along the border with Pakistan).
--Overall, year-to-date enemy attacks nationwide were five percent lower than the same period in 2010, and attacks continue to decline.
- The Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) continued to make substantial progress during the reporting period, increasing in quantity, quality, and operational effectiveness.
--Both the Afghan National Army (ANA) and Afghan National Police (ANP) remain on track to achieve their respective growth goals for October 2012.
--During this reporting period, both the Ministry of Defense and Ministry of Interior made significant progress in being able to train, and thereby generate, their own forces.

You can read the entire report here (PDF): http://www.undispatch.com/un-content/uploads/2011/10/Report-on-Progress-Toward-Security-and-Stability-in-Afghanistan.pdf

The report is full of assessments of 'successes and progress' . . . with glaring, contradicting exceptions.

"Civilian casualties -- most caused by the Taliban -- reached an all-time high this summer with approximately 450 civilians killed in July," the report reads. "Attacks using homemade bombs, or IEDs, also reached an all-time high this past summer, with about 750 IED detonations recorded in July."

from Just Foreign Policy: http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/obamavsbush

"Nearly two-thirds of the U.S. fatalities in the war in Afghanistan have occurred during the Obama administration, which has managed the war for a mere quarter of its duration."

And with two months left to go, 2011 is already the second-deadliest year of the Afghanistan war following 2010, the deadliest year of the war with 497 total deaths. The top three deadliest years of the war -- 2010 (497 deaths), 2011 (362), 2009 (303) -- have occurred under President Obama’s tenure. August 2011 was the deadliest month of the war, so far, with 71 total fatalities.

Just as importantly, "the change in Taliban tactics has kept up the number of civilian casualties," said a senior defense official describing the report. Even though there are fewer Taliban attacks overall, he said, the Taliban "are killing more Afghan civilians."

Predictably, resisting Afghans have avoided the areas where U.S. troops have masses and have scattered their violence around the capital and elsewhere -- even killing former Afghan president Burhanuddin Rabbani.

For these figures alone, this Afghan mission should be scrubbed. I believe that's what commanders must be thinking (and our Commander-in-Chief is thinking as well).

President Obama has already decided that, for better or worse (he says better) that his surge is all but over. His Pentagon and his intelligence agencies took out the original terror suspect who claimed responsibility for the 9-11 plane crashes and more than a few others. For an economically crippled superpower pushing up against the admitted limitations of our military, that's enough for the President to declare 'success' and 'progress' and leave when he says he will -- if not ahead of time.

Already, this week, in fact, our installed autocrat, Karzai has gone fishing for countries willing to fill the void when we eliminate combat troops from Afghanistan as planned in 2014. That's not going to be an easy sell, although you can be certain the U.S. will step up and sweeten the pot for anyone willing to take on the heady burden in our absence.

At a regional conference today on Afghanistan held in Turkey the Afghan and Pakistani presidents met with their neighbors to try and work out some sort of security agreement to keep a lid on things when they anticipate the US leaves in 2014.

Afghan Defense Ministry spokesman Gen. Zahir Azimi announced at the summit that his country understood that NATO will change their combat role to supporting role after 2014.

Although he emphasized that that the date was a transition period and not a dead-stop end point, he also insisted that Afghan security forces are near ready to take over their security responsibilities.

Now, no one believes that even he believes Afghans will be 'ready' for the U.S. to bug-out in 2014, but almost no one believes the U.S. has the political or operational will to remain long past that date. That's understandable given the virtual stalemate between resistors and the NATO forces (despite the thousands of 'insurgents' they claim to have killed).

More importantly, there's really nothing left for this administration to point to as justification to remain. It's always amazing to hear the President and the administration talk of 'progress' and 'successes' in Afghanistan. The stated aim of the U.S. military effort in Afghanistan has been described by military leaders and the White House as an attempt to 'breaking the momentum' of the Taliban insurgency and 'turning' the terrorist-associated organization, instead of the more direct talk at the inception of the escalation of force in December 2009 about 'defeating' al-Qaeda.

What's missing from the assessments of 'progress' and 'success' from occupation supporters is the acknowledgment that our nation's military posture in Afghanistan and the region has actually widened the initial conflict between the U.S. and the original band of 9-11 perpetrators into a proxy war in which Afghans and Pakistanis are bearing the brunt of resentment and resistance to our imposed alliance with the dubious regimes clinging to power. Every move that the U.S. makes to enable or defend those country's regimes deepens the initial, blundering acquiescence to bin Laden's plot to draw the U.S. into a conflict where Muslims and others in the region became targets and casualties of our nations military forces.

Seemingly unaware or indifferent to that initial acquiescence of the U.S. to the aim of the 9-11 perpetrators, this Democratic president doubled-down on Bush's fateful appeasement and has decided to try and temper the fires that our military forces have sparked with their dubious defense against the ghosts, remnants, and outgrowth of our own misguided military activity in the region since 9-11.

The administration's attitude is that past mistakes don't obviate the need and efficacy (in their view) of pressing forward with their military campaign. They're optimistic that our military forces can achieve enough of a push-back against resisting Afghans, and a crippling of anyone operating behind the moniker of al-Qaeda or the Taliban, to allow and encourage Afghans to assume a fight against that insurgence which would compliment our own national security interests in defending against 'al-Qaeda' and against further attacks on our nation.

The obvious problem with that equation is in the self-perpetuated, counterproductive effect the U.S. military presence and activity has on achieving those unifying goals. The present escalation of force unfolded too slowly to achieve any decisive military intimidation of the vast and organic number of individuals compelled to violence.

The resistant unrest hasn't abated; it's intensified, even as our forces are angling to leave. Even the military commanders have recently predicted that violence and deaths will likely increase in the near future. I'm at a loss to imagine how that prospect will enhance or relationship with Afghans or others in the region and encourage them to adopt and carry our nation's banner of war against their resisting country-folk. But, that's the plan . . .

Bush wrote the script for the U.S. in the region; cast the antagonists in his kabuki play - erected Potemkins of democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan to defend in contrived protection schemes where we create the 'enemies' we then claim to protect and defend against.

The Taliban is an imposture in our government's terror war. Our own invading and occupying military forces are the most aggravating element in the perpetual violence in Afghanistan and the region. Deliberately so.

Yet, this president has no apparent interest in assuming the mantle of a 'war president' as Bush so opportunistically did after 9-11 to cover for his lackluster domestic agenda. This president campaigned on domestic priorities which are increasingly threatened by the cost of continuing the escalated occupations he's inching toward drawing down. I find it hard to believe that Mr. Obama has as much enthusiasm for making Afghanistan the centerpiece of his foreign policy as Bush did with Iraq. Gone are the last president's references to 'spreading democracy' and the 'center of the terror war'.

Also absent from this new administration's rhetoric is any illusion that there will be some rallying of allies around this president's continued prosecution of the persistent, grudging vengeance against the remnants and ghosts of the original 9-11 fugitive suspects. Indeed, America will soon be standing almost alone in Afghanistan if the president doesn't find a way to define the mission there in terms of some eventual resolution or end.

The President declared in televised remarks in 2009 on 'Meet the Press,' that, "I'm not interested in just being in Afghanistan for the sake of being in Afghanistan or saving face or, in some way, you know, sending a message that America is here for the duration."

The mixed results of the Afghan elections our troops have defended, and the almost negligible effect on the balance of power outside of Kabul (a majority adhering to the tribal leadership of the Taliban and others over the influence and control of Afghanistan's central government), expose the administration's nation-building behind the force of our military as the crap-shoot almost everyone expected it to be.

Facing limited resources (both money and manpower) available to fulfill all of the desires that the President and the Pentagon may have had to perpetuate the occupation of Afghanistan, President Obama is now challenged to end it as soon as he's able. We can only hope that he'd end it sooner than 2014, but I think we can be damned sure there isn't going to be any driving desire for a Democratic administration and their Democratic counterparts in Congress to continue in Afghanistan much longer.

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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Troops aren't mercenaries.
Mercenaries aren't troops. Just because the troops are leaving Iraq doesn't mean the US will not maintain combat forces. Oh Blackwater, keep on rolling.

I expect the same in Afghanistan. Someone has to guard the poppies.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. it'll be something though for the U.S. to withdraw our combat forces
What Karzai does to defend his regime will increasingly be his problem.

Is there anyone saying that hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops out of Afghanistan will be a bad thing?

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. +1000% -- K/R
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Very good to hear...
not necessarily for Afghanistan, but there's only so much that can be done.

I worry less about withdrawing and leaving disorder than in staying and eventually resorting to Vietnam-style bombing campaigns, or "turning it all to glass", as I hear advocated for sometimes by the RW.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. and disorder it will certainly be
. . . better leave now, than endure and cause more deaths.

SoS Clinton has a fanciful notion about reviving the 'Silk Road' to provide for the aftermath of the 2014 handover. Funny, because most goods travel these days by sea and the trading partnerships that existed in ancient times are non-existent. Not funny, really, because out soldiers have been dying in droves defending and keeping open the roads our SoS expects Afghans to prosper by.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. I think the lesson is long wars erode everything civil away
...if you look at Afghanistan, where one group estimated earlier in the year that only 3% of the pre-war (as bad as it was) economy remained, and most everyone now relies on either foreign aid or the black market of drugs and terrorism for survival.

Or Pakistan, who's own economy was hovering on the brink of modernity in 2001 and was considered an "Asian Success Story" coming out of some difficult early years...but now the effects of the "war on terror" have accumulated to make it more a shattered and failing remnant, and most people there have few expectations left of their government.

And other places as well. I certainly hope lessons learned can lead to better decisions and policies in the future!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. I wouldn't bet a plug nickel on ANYTHING this administration MIGHT do in three years. nt
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. it's not exactly betting on them
. . . but I think it's a pretty sure bet a second-termed Obama won't be looking to leave an ongoing Afghan war as his legacy.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. What a legacy, Surge Afghanistan, continue the bail-outs, expand the Military
give big pharma, and health insurance their pie, nice legacy
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. 'surge Afghanistan'
. . . the most damning.

Two thirds as many Americans died there under Obama's short tenure than under the entire Bush escapade in Afghanistan. Civilian deaths are way up too. Nothing at all to show for it except the same corrupt regime in place . . . he needs to do this.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. He always has his surge....
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. We lost. Get out. Get over it.
We aren't leaving because the occupation was, or will be, successful. The delay until 2014 is just saving face PR. And, as usual, there will be plenty of blame assigned for "losing" Afghanistan, but little or no accountability for the atrocities perpetrated so politicians could look "tough" and generals look competent.

A shameful exercise of showmanship and political expediency that produced nothing but misery.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. sure, that's what most of us have been saying for years now
Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 01:28 PM by bigtree
There's nothing left for the U.S. in Afghanistan except to retreat. Sure, the drone war is going to continue until the hawks are convinced they've given themselves enough room to turn tail and leave. But, I believe this determination that the commanders are showing to move forward with their handover of the ground they held, despite the obvious and glaring toll in lives and resource with absolutely nothing to show for it, is a sure sign that they've tired of the nonsense. They don't like the deaths anymore than anyone else.

I think we can read all of the exaggerated claims of 'success' and 'progress' from this particular administration as a pretext for declaring some sort of victory and moving on out of there. Contrast that with the Bush administration's habit of exaggerating the setbacks to justify lingering longer.

Then, you have this moment where the administration can disengage with the illusion of 'strength' coming off of the killing of bin Laden and the rest of the violence supported and executed in the past months against their line-up of bad guys.

There won't be a more opportune moment than right now to announce a stepped-up exit. The public is primed for it and it would put a great deal of energy behind the President's campaign. I wouldn't imagine Barack Obama is willing to go down in history as the one who escalated a war as precipitously and with such a human cost and left it simmering and boiling over for some future administration to resolve.

In that, I think you might be surprised, given your cynicism on this.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Peace with honor. 2014 style. Same song, different singer.
Nixon escalated LBJ's lost war before announcing "Peace with honor" and getting out. Now it's Obama's turn to do the same after escalating Bush's lost war.

I would call that cynical.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. well, we fought him all the way. Hell, I remember silence greeted my protests about Afghanistan
Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 01:48 PM by bigtree
in the early days of the Iraq occupation. . . it was seen as 'the good war'.

I'm just looking for the end . . . much like we fought and fought Bush without moving him an inch away from Iraq. I'll be good with an end. History won't give this President any room to feel secure in any of the nonsense that went into his 'pollyandish misadventure'. Warmonger-lite. Tragic.

But, I'll be glad to see troops coming home.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Crickets ............. when are they coming home ?
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. I don't think we will withdraw too much before the elections.
Cynical interpretation: Obama doesn't want the failure of his policy to become apparent until after he is reelected.

Charitable interpretation: Obama still hopes to hand over the primary responsibility for security to the Afghans when the Afghans are reasonably capable of providing it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. +1000% -- K/R
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. hey, can someone take that last rec off for me?
It looks like a booger hanging off there . . .
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. tanks
Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 01:56 PM by bigtree
:P
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Like he did for Iraq?
"Obama will likely meet the 2014 deadline to remove most troops from Afghanistan"

Which August was that again?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. well, that effort in Iraq to bring troops home
. . . is well underway.

I'm not pollyanish about it Read the article.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. You are assuming a win in 2012. That isn't a guarantee. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Would be helpful if we had a democrat with a heart run in 2012 -- !!!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I am assumming that
. . . but you're right, there's no guarantee. The alternative . . .
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-02-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think you are right that Obama is serious about the 2014 date
for withdrawal. And i think that is the best we coulod have hoped for. I do think that the costs for Afghanistan might well be high, but that must be weighed against the very real possibility that withdrawal in 2015 or 2016 or . . . might also have those same high costs. And the bottom line is that we can help others much more effectively by using our resources in peaceful ventures.
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counter revolution Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. withdrawl?
Oh, sure....from Afghanistan to Kuwait, to continue to surround Iran for his next war.
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vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. Four **** Gold Stars for a championship SHILL MAGNET DIARY.
I delight in anticipation of returning to behold the anti-Obama spew.

And btw: it's still a drug war. "Heroin drought" is now a common phrase across Europe and eastern Russia.
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