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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:23 PM
Original message
McPhail smiled when it was over
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:25 PM by sasha031
just said on MSN

let them keep telling each other that he was guilty

Davis didn't take adivan.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sick and twisted.
I guess that pound of flesh tasted pretty damned good.

Too bad it was the wrong pound of flesh.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. they will defiantly vote for Perry
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
108. Delete. Replied to wrong person.
Edited on Thu Sep-22-11 10:30 AM by EOTE
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Zax2me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. It was sick and twisted for Davis to commit murder.
The one he was convicted of.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #47
87. Except that there is compelling evidence that he didn't?
Does that even matter?
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #47
109. You should be ashamed of yourself. That is if you had any shame to begin with.
Disgusting how you'd lynch that man with your words. Defending this absolute travesty of justice. I would ask how you sleep at night, but I know you sleep just fine. People without consciences tend to have no problem sleeping at night.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #109
120. Just like Rick Perry
He says he has no problems sleeping after someone is executed/murdered.
I just can't imagine what it will be like if were president. Wisconsin and Ohio will be his example.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #47
112. Twice.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
121. Oh F*** Off!
:nuke:
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. And people asked why I questioned their blood lust....
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I wonder why you feel such hatred toward the family of the victim.
Can you honestly say how you would feel in their shoes?
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. If there were a chance he was innocent . . .
I would feel nauseous.
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. I can honestly say I'd never sleep at night knowing the wrong person had been killed.
And no. I wouldn't feel the same even if they were killing the right person. Even if I was 100% sure they had the right person I'd be much happier letting them rot for 30, 40, 50 years until they died on their own, never having seen daylight again. And we would have saved about a million dollars of my tax money to boot.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. I don't know how I would feel.
What I do know is that no two people would react the same way. I won't condemn this family for the way they feel.
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. A friend of mine whose 14-year-old daughter was murdered . . .
by a psychopath (who admitted raping and killing her during his trial) said that she wanted him to live out the rest of his life in prison. She felt that it was a far worse punishment than death - to be locked away and forgotten by everyone who had ever cared about him. He died in prison 10 years after his incarceration and hardly anyone noticed.

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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
73. Exactly.
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 11:17 PM by Blue_In_AK
Make them think about it every day for the rest of their natural lives. And one would think that Christians would want to give the guilty man enough time to repent. If they really care about saving souls, they would let God take care of it all in his own due time.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
117. It would cost more than a million dollars of your tax money
for that person to be locked up and kept alive for 30, 40 or 50 years.
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. You're right- it would cost a million to lock somebody up for 40 years
$26,000 per year to feed and clothe and guard a prison inmate x 40 years =$1.04M

The point is it would take 40 years to run up that bill.

And I apologize for sloppily pulling the figure of $1 million out of the air. That was very careless. The actual cost of putting someone to death, according to deathpenaltyinfo.org is $3 million. (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf ) That number is what the state of Maryland reported in 2008. There are older figures ($2.3 million per execution in Texas from 1992) but I took the mst recent one.

Sorry.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Anger and saddness does not excuse them from rational thought or compassion
In this case more so than others.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. I hope you never have to exercise such rational thought in such a situation.
My compassion also extends to the victim's family. Bashing them from behind your cloak of internet anonymity shows no such compassion.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. This isn't the day after the murder. They've had 25 years to be rational
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. And all that time to suffer as well.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. So you think that excuses them from being able to make rational judgements?
Look towards James Byrd's family. Their son was dragged behind a truck because of his race, and they came out against the execution of his murderer. The facts in the two cases aren't even close.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. I think that you are just determined to hate this family regardless.
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:54 PM by NaturalHigh
Your prerogative, I guess. I still say that everyone is going to react differently in a case like this.

Oh, and yes, I think their grief and emotion goes a long way toward explaining their feelings.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. I don't hate them. I hate their actions. There is a huge difference.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. You can hate their actions...
but that doesn't mean that you can understand them or even honestly say that you wouldn't feel the same way.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. Again, I will never excuse or understand people who take joy in another's death
It's one thing to seek closure. Its even another thing to seek revenge in a case where a confession has been obtained. But its another thing to ignore all evidence presented to you and to smile after watching another human die. That is something I will not understand.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Somehow, I doubt that your forgiveness or understanding will matter to them.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. I never assumed that it would. They'll have to live with themselves...there are a lot of sick people
out there.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #56
93. My favorite cousin was murdered
Not one of his siblings, his wife and two sons or his cousins wanted the death penalty - you either believe in life like civilized people or you don't - it's that simple.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
64. Ask any professional therapist, some people never recover from this shit...
Just the same way that some soldiers who've seen combat never recover from the psychological trauma even decades later.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
74. And how does executing the wrong man help the victim's family? nt
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. I never said that any of this would EVER help the victim's family.
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 11:29 PM by NaturalHigh
I simply maintain that emotions under such circumstances as these should not be expected to be rational or even understandable. Please re-read my posts before trying to put words in my mouth.

For the record, by the way, I don't believe that Troy Davis was the wrong man.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. So you think that the people who recanted were lying when they
recanted?

That would make them liars.

If they are liars, how can you believe their original testimony?

No physical evidence. 9 witness testimonies, 7 recanted, one of the two who did't recant was the OTHER suspect.

Reasonable doubt?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
62. IMO, it absolutely does excuse them from rational thought and compassion
It's human nature not to act with rational thought when it comes to these sorts of situations. Vengeance is a part of human nature and I'm not going to fault these people for something they pretty much can't control.

I am, however, going to fault the prosecutors who play off of this irrational nature to score political points. The family is excused from rational thought and compassion. The justice system is NOT.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
115. I've had two close friends murdered.
As angry as I was at their killers, as much as I despised them, I never once wanted them murdered by the State. I was satisfied -- not happy, but satisfied -- that they were imprisioned and would never hurt anyone every again.

So yes, I do know how I would feel in their shoes.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. Hope you never find out how
you would feel in same circumstances.
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Worship Money Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. As long as someone dies, right?
Anyone will do.

I can't in good conscience predict how I would react or feel in a situation like this one. However, I have a really hard time believing that-belief in the morality of the death penalty aside- I would feel any sort of justice was being committed if the case was as riddled with error as this one.

In no way do I think this would make feel anything like vindication for the loss of a loved one.

This was a state sacrifice. Someone had to die.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
114. Perhaps they believe as you do
But after sitting through the trial and seeing all the evidence, they just came to a different conclusion than those who were not there and have only heard what the evidence was?
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teddy51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. His mother was just as sick, this guy is guilty no mater what the new evidence showed... sick shits.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. they may be in denial... they may be misguided, but they are victims..
as well. Can you not show some compassion towards them. Troy Davis clearly did. :shrug:
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teddy51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. I watched her on three different interviews and she never had the clear (new facts) in
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 11:02 PM by teddy51
the case. So no, I don't have any sympathy for her. Open your mind Mrs. McPhail, Troy Davis may have been innocent.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. She didn't even have the ####s to witness the execution in person
...but she wanted her fuckin' pound of flesh no matter what. What a disgrace to her hero son.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Shame on you.
Just shame on you. You are cruel and nasty.

It must be miserable to be so hateful.
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teddy51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. I'm sorry, but my guess is you have not watched this women in any interviews.
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:47 PM by teddy51
She was determined that Troy Davis was guilty, no mater what any new evidence might produce. Yes I am sorry for her loss, but why wish an innocent man to die for her so called closure?
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
51. What a disgusting post.
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teddy51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. It's not disgusting at all, obviously you never watched any of her interviews.
As far as she was concerned, Troy Davis was guilty no matter that 7 of the eye witnesses recanted their testimony. She was bound and determined that this man was guilty, thats sick based on new information. Before you post, I think you should get yourself up to speed on current information.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. They wanted their fucking pound of flesh. . .
hope they choke on it.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. As devastating as I feel towards Davis, can we not forget that the McPhails are also victims?
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:30 PM by hlthe2b
While I hope and pray I would not respond in such a way to the brutal murder of my loved one, how can we judge? They truly believe that Troy Davis was guilty. Undoubtedly they've been fed that line with total conviction by every prosecutor associated with the case. Add to that the denial factor and, well, I have to show some understanding for them. And.. compassion.

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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. They lobbied for this man's death with the clemency board and any media who would listen....they are
not above reproach.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Until you walk a mile in their shoes, that is just empty bravado.
I hope I would not react like that, but who really knows until they face it? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. While Troy Davis and his family clearly have my tremendous sympathy and sadness tonight, the family of the dead man deserve some compassion and understanding as well.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Baloney. Their actions were concerted and they are responsible for them. n/t
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. wow.. I have totally seen a new side to you...
and it is not at all pretty.... I feel very sorry for you if you can not show any more understanding than that for those who have suffered such loss--no matter how misguided their reactions may seem to you. Very ugly attitude and one I never expected from you.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #40
89. You know what is ugly and pitiful?
Edited on Thu Sep-22-11 07:42 AM by EFerrari
Rationalizing murder as empathy.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #89
119. Now that is just sad....
Edited on Thu Sep-22-11 05:27 PM by hlthe2b
You know that I have never done anything but decry the DP for anyone, let alone Troy Davis. You further know that I have been a constant on those threads that seek to inform about Davis' case and to encourage action over the past several years. To suggest otherwise is an unconscionable level of dishonesty, EFerrari.

However, I can realize the breadth and depth of this tragedy--that extends to the family of the victim as well. They deserve pity, understanding... not your castigation. They will likely come to regret their attitudes and convictions and realize, with horror, just how empty this promise of "justice" (disguised as vengeance) has left them. It is sad that they could not have come to that more enlightened state over the years. Pity them. Their failure to do so will bring them anything but peace. They remain victims. This time, of their own accord. :shrug:

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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Bullshit.
My partner and I have had this talk. If someone murdered one or the other or both of us we would not want them murdered in our names. It is really quite simple.

These folks have the same facts as I have and probably many many more. And they KNEW that there were huge doubts about the now murdered mans guilt. And they are smiling. I am reaching very hard to find alot of compassion for them for other then the fact they lost someone dear to them.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Nor would I... But neither you nor your partner nor I have experenced this...
Your determination of how you WOULD feel is totally meaningless. You HOPE you would feel this way. So do I.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. No actually dude. When I set my mind to something I
follow through. I may want to feel the perps skull being crushed under my size tens. But what I would do in reality is another thing entirely. I am not a prisoner of my emotions.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. I'm not a dude...
and you have no clue how you would feel. None of us can.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
83. Of course we can. You think that because it hasn't happened we cannot know?
We don't have the intellectual capacity to imagine every scenario, and how we might respond?

That is pure unmitigated bullshit. It is abdicating reason for religion - a faith-based argument for vengeance.

Just because YOU don't know how YOU would react, that is no indication of how anyone else might. Fact is, though, from your responses, I think you DO know how you would react. It's not very pleasant.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #61
90. Once more. And then I'm done because you obviously
are not comprehending what I am trying to convey. To "feel" is an emotion. How you put that into action is another matter. And I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that no matter how I felt that would not compel me to demand the murder of a man who might very well be innocent. My mind does not turn into simple reactive mush because I am grieving. If you are trying to say that yours does. Well, my sympathies.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
82. One cannot be surprised.
LEO are a conservative community. Most of them supported Bush and too wanted vengeance like most Americans after 9/11 against anyone with dark skin. These groups were ripe for the picking to support the criminal war in Iraq.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Of COURSE, they lobbied for his death -
Given their loss and their pain and their sincere belief in his guilt, I would expect nothing less from them.

If, God forbid, something like this happened to a member of my family, I would probably scream for blood, too.

But that is why we should never let punishment be dictated by emotions. We should not run our criminal justice system based upon the desire for revenge felt by victims and their loved ones. But I do not fault those who have lost so much.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. There is no excuse for other humans to take pleasure in the death of another....
especially in a case with this much doubt. Sadness and anger does not excuse you from rational thought.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I'm sorry, that's just wrong. The McPhails have had evidence
of Troy's innocence for years.

His death in no way repairs their loss. Not at all. In fact, McPhail's killer has gotten away scot free.
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Worship Money Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Nonetheless...
Wouldn't it make sense for the FAMILY of the individual- beyond anyone else- to want to study what is happening and look beyond what is simply being fed to them in order to come to an accurate conclusion? Isn't THAT the justice you would wish for your loved one?

I'm sorry, but too often families seem to simply accept an "anyone will do" approach. And we can have compassion while still considering their reaction an objectively wrong one.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Easy for all of us to say....
I hope none of us face that horrific challenge of our values--particularly when everyone around them continued to reinforce the notion that the man was guilty.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. People face challenges to their values every day. n/t
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Worship Money Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. And if we did
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:39 PM by Worship Money
And acted like that, we'd STILL be wrong. I'd be wrong if I acted that way.

It's not saying we know that for sure we wouldn't. I hope I wouldn't. But it's objectively wrong, and we don't do ANYONE any justice by failing to point that out because of hurt feelings, political correctness, etc.

A man that was very likely innocent of these accusations was murdered tonight. This has to be discussed and called out. So congratulations, we've created a new victim and victim's family now.

For nothing. Or at least, for bloodlust and political convenience.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Of course we can judge. We can decide not to wrong others
because we have been wronged. This is a lesson small children learn.

And no, there is no justification for seeking an innocent life, no matter how much you have been hurt.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Don't preach to the choir, EFerrari...
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:40 PM by hlthe2b
The fact is that while I agree with you tonight--in terms of my own attitudes towards capital punishment, I have never had a member of my family brutally murdered. The emotions that follow such tragic loss can have a devastating impact that none of us can predict. THAT is why family members don't determine sentences. That is why we have a justice system to begin with. Why everyone is focusing their wrath on the family members--instead of the clemency board and others charged with rendering IMPARTIAL review of this case, is just beyond me. They may be wrong in their attitudes. They may be in such denial so as to be pathetic. They may be pitiful in their misplaced desire for vengeance sans clear justice. But, they were and remain victims. They deserve understanding. Unless we have been in their shoes, we have NO RIGHT to judge THEM.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
70. The family isn't making a decision, they're acting irrationally
Trauma like this can render you completely incapable of rational thought in these matters. And as far as modern therapy and medicine have come, there still isn't a whole hell of a lot that can be done about it.
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Just because they believe it doesn't mean it's right.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
79. Understanding what? That of 9 witness testimonies, 7 were recanted
(that means, they admitted they LIED) and one was from another suspect.

In the same situation, I would understand that the REAL killer is probably still walking around.

How do you deny the fact of the recanted testimony, when that testimony was all that convicted the man?
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
107. You'd think people would be passionate about finding the true murderer of their loved one
Not just seeing that someone, anyone, is murdered in revenge.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Rarely people get what they want
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 10:30 PM by nadinbrzezinski
but rarely... smile and everything. I wish them peace too.
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nobodyspecial Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. So tell me again the the D.P. is about justice
and not revenge?

My guess is that smile will soon fade.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. And some here were defending that family.
Disgusting.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. That you can't differentiate between a horrifically flawed justice system
and the victims-- all the victims, from Troy Davis, his family, AND the family of the murdered man is what is REALLY disgusting.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. Mark was 2 when his dad was killed. All he knows is his grandmother's bloodlust
I'm so glad I won't be sitting next to him this Christmas or Thanksgiving. The urge to turn to him and say, "they killed the guy, happy now?" would be too much.

Glad to see my Christian family celebrating a blood orgy tonight. I'll be sure to stay off FB for a while.

That's right, I'm related by marriage.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
54. Oh, dear. Yes, that would be a very difficult family dinner.
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DrunkenBoat Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
75. Did the family's military & law enforcement connections have a lot to do with
why there was no new trial in the face of new evidence, despite support from, e.g. Amnesty International?

I was noticing that his father was an army colonel, he was a Ranger, etc.
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
92. Won't you have the same dilema with your own family at Thanksgiving or Christmas?
They seem pretty happy about the killing.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. Understandable, considering they truly believed he did it,
Most people would be satisfied with the result.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. I refuse to believe that most people would take joy in the death of another person. Take James Byrd
family for instance. His family came out against executing the man who drug their son behind his pickup truck due to his race. The facts in that case were MUCH clearer than the ones surrounding this case.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #34
84. Refuse to believe it then.
Nothing wrong with that. I happen to believe it.
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cabot Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. then f*ck mcphail
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 11:11 PM by cabot
you know, i have sympathy that the guy's dad was murdered. but anyone who takes pleasure in the death of another human being is a fucking monster. i hope he can live with the fact he took joy from someone's death.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #32
116. Anyone who takes pleasure in the death of another human being is a fucking monster.
I couldn't agree more.

Please make sure to stop by when Cheney dies and see what kind of fucking monsters are here.

:hi:
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YellowCosmicSun Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. McFAIL'd
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
50. I heard about that, too. Evil is and evil does. Again, may they rot in hell! n/t
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. When I hear that he has died
I will smile just for him.

The same way I plan to picket Fred Phelps' funeral when the time comes.

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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Good point. The sister of James Byrd is much more Christ-like than I am.
I find it very difficult to forgive pure hatred and malice towards another human being.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Reminds me of a joke my grandfather once told me.
The punchline is "HEY, JESUS! I'M RUNNING OUT OF CHEEKS!"
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. Is this some sort of Jeckyll and Hyde performance art you are doing here?
Because a few posts up you are telling people to rot in hell. Now you 'cant forgive malice and hatred.'

Huh?
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #71
103. Yep! That's me. It was a figure of speech. Not literal!
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cordelia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #59
88. Nothing Christ-like about you at all.
"Rot in hell"? Seriously?

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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #88
104. Exactly. I totally accept that. It's something that I'm working on. I can't forgive hatred.
Sorry. If it makes me un-Christlike, then so be it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. Some sick posts in this thread
Condemning "bloodlust" while participating in healthy doses yourselves.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Noticed that, myself.
Pretty amusing to watch the human condition.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #65
97. +1. nt
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
72. She would never consider the possibility that she could be wrong,
Edited on Wed Sep-21-11 11:13 PM by Blue_In_AK
and even if Troy Davis were guilty, why would she smile when he was dead? Trying to imagine myself in that situation, I think I would feel sad. All the revenge in the world isn't going to bring back her son.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. People get confused between justice and revenge.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. That's very true.
Revenge is easy, justice is hard.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
81. Let them keep telling themselves that.
McPhail is not smiling that an innocent man was executed, I can promise you that.
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OwnedByCats Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
85. Has it occurred to anyone ....
that maybe Mrs. MacPhail truly believes her son was killed by Troy Davis instead of coming to the conclusion that she's just happy someone is punished, regardless of guilt or innocence? I just think that's an unfair assumption to make without knowing her personally. With complete conviction some are saying "He is innocent!", throwing it around as if it were a fact rather than an opinion. I'm not saying he's guilty but at the same time I can't say he's innocent either. I wasn't there that night to witness what actually happened, just as none of you were. He might be innocent but I can't assume that and declare it a fact while making some pretty serious accusations against the victim's mother.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the death penalty especially under the circumstance that someone was only guilty of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm just trying to be neutral on the issue of guilt or innocence. All I can hope for is we haven't executed an innocent man.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. I'm sure she does.
Edited on Thu Sep-22-11 04:10 AM by AngryOldDem
However, belief doesn't necessarily equate to fact, and that a mistake wasn't made. Seven witnesses recanted their testimony, and even the state has raised doubts about the ballistic evidence. One juror has said her decision would have been different had she known about the state of that evidence. Another witness has fled Georgia for her life because she says she knows who did kill McPhail.

If the state is going to take a life in the name of society, and for the supposed safety of society, there should be NO reasonable doubt about the guilt of the condemned. And to any casual observer, there was certainly enough questionable evidence here to merit a new trial, or at the very least, commute the sentence to life without parole.

I empathize with the McPhail family -- they want the person who killed their son to pay for the crime. Completely understandable. But justice MUST be served as well, and that point should not be lost here.
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OwnedByCats Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #86
106. Belief of his innocence is not fact either
I don't believe he should have been executed since questions were raised unanswered. However I don't make assumptions about the victim's family just as I don't make assumptions about Troy's guilt or innocence. Sadly we'll never know for certain, especially now.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #85
91. Has it ever occurred to you that you shouldn't have to wonder
if an innocent man has been killed by your government? That our standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt", not "I hope he was guilty"? Or that you can never really meet that standard and use capital punishment?

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OwnedByCats Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #91
110. Yes, it has ...
That's why I don't agree with the DP, most especially in cases like this. I just don't like to presume things that I was not a witness to. He very well could have been innocent and the thought is a really sad one. Nothing can be done about it now, but yes I really do hope they didn't execute an innocent man. None of us should ever have to wonder, I agree. Unfortunately it's all that's left now.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #85
96. No, I don't
No one can ignore that 7 of 9 witnesses recanted. If they actually cared about finding the actual murderer, this would haunt them.

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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #85
100. Those are pretty much
my thoughts on the subject too.

I can't say he was innocent. But I don't know if he was guilty, either.


Calling a murder victim's family "sick" for smiling when the person THEY believe is guilty dies is just rotten.

I think so many feel this is one of those black and white issues when really it's not. Not if you are the victim's family. Most of us can never know (and I hope we never find out) how it would feel to lose someone that way, pro-P or anti-DP. The dilemma has to be even worse if one is anti-DP. How does someone deal with mixed feelings like that?

I don't know... :(

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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
94. I suppose it's easy...
to feel disgust for this woman because she smiled, but I don't even know how I would feel in her situation.

You never get over the loss of a child. Ever.

I guess she has the right to hate the person she believes took her son's life. You can't reason that away.

She said that she would feel "relief" and "peace".

I don't know. I think I would feel very empty inside.


And what if, by some bizarre chance, someone else comes forward to say that HE shot her son...that Troy Davis was actually innocent...

God, what a horror story that would be. Everyone involved in his execution. Everyone who thought he was guilty. Everyone who cheered when he died.

I can't even imagine what it would be like to know that I had cheered for the execution of an innocent man. I'm not saying this will happen, but if it did... I would probably have nightmares the rest of my life. :(

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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
95. Sick, evil bastard
It's horrible that he lost his family member, but the blood lust of this family makes me sick. They can see the fact that 7 of 9 witnesses recanted and all the other evidence of innocence. They don't care -- they just want someone to die. Whoever.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
98. They say they are 100% certain of Davis' guilt -- to them it was justice served.


I don't begrudge them their smile at what they think is justice served.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
99. sad, broken people-
who will find their pain not eased but mulitplied in the long run.

pity.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
101. Revenge is an important part of the Scots-Irish culture many Southerners come from
I think this is why the DP is so popular in the south, it's all about revenge.
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cordelia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #101
122. You sure do think you know a lot, don't you?
Would you care to cite that bizarre notion you have on revenge?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. Actually Odin is right... to a point
and it goes back a long time to the borderer culture of England... and to be specific Elizabethan England...

It is not a major factor except in a few areas of the culture, but it is actually part of how the culture developed.

I'd blame more things like the enclosure acts and the caste culture that the Scott Irish come from and it is more complex than just saying revenge is part of the culture. But the echoes of history affect modern attitudes in ways that modern Americans from all ethnic pasts refuse to even acknowledge.

The idea of a caste culture is mostly abhorrent to most Americans, but it is real... and knowing your place is part of it. I am sure you have heard of it. This includes the complexities of honor and race.

The JSTOR database will have extensive academic papers on this from multiple academic journals.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
102. So what? Who cares? The family had as much power to stop the DP as you and me.
If they smile because they THINK the guy killed their loved one, I don't give a rat's ass.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #102
111. +1
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
105. The problem about vengence or rage is that it clouds our rationality.
If a loved one of mine was murdered, perhaps I too--even as someone who as a rational person sees no use for the death penalty--would be calling for vengence.

But I wouldn't be thinking rationally.

And I would be wrong.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
113. I can only hope he never has to know what it's like to be railroaded for murder
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
123. I think Mr. Davis had enough on his side to fall under Reasonable Doubt
regardless of whether he actually did, or did not, commit the murder. If I had full transcripts (and the time and wherewithal to read them) of both the recantations and the original testimony, I might be more inclined towards one belief or the other...but I doubt either one would move me past Reasonable Doubt.

I see a lot of DU'ers going for the throat of each other. "Oh just so long as someone dies huh" and "Well hopefully you'll never have to get killed for a murder you didn't commit" and "CIVILIZED people don't like MURDER RAWR!" That's bullshit. A person can be a civilized member of society and still be in favor of the death penalty (**in proper circumstances, of which this is NOT ONE). It doesn't make them have a hard-on for killing people, and trying to label someone with that is fucking ignorant. It's as stupid as the kind of shit homophobes say about gay people -- easy to label, but fucking ignorant in concept.

Smiling as he died was probably a line too far, but I can, on some level, at least understand why. They THINK Mr. Davis was guilty, and so they're happy to see him go. This is not an unusual concept. I question their rationality when so much counter-evidence exists. But I understand the PROCESS behind the emotion. I think they should have DEMANDED a higher level of certainty...but I understand where they are coming from.

Being for the death penalty at its' most stringent requirements is not a barbaric belief, it's not an anti-liberal belief, and it's not an anti-Democratic belief. Being for the death penalty in its current implementation...I would think that fits all 3 categories.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
125. I try hard not to sit in judgement of victims and their loved ones
of violent crime. I don't think unless it's happened to you that you can ever know how you will react. I would hope that I could forgive the one I believe is guilty but I just don't know and I hope I will never had to find out.
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