Doesn't Obama deserve a modicum of praise for the "Arab Spring"?

[panader0]

I think so. I think that the fact that Americans elected a man wth a strange name made young Arab folks ambitious.
This rise of democracy in the Middle East has something to do with the fall of bushco and the rise of the Obama admin.

[Posteritatis]

1. I hold the unconventional view that the Arab population just might have agency of their own. (nt)

[ThomWV]

92. As hard as it is to imagine, there are others out here who agree with you.

[Bluebear]

93. !

[treestar]

2. No, he's just to blame for whatever goes wrong there

:rofl:

[muntrv]

3. About as much as Reagan deserves for the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[Skittles]

7. CORRECT

[Beacool]

20. My exact same thoughts.

We give ourselves too much importance in this country. We tend to think that the world revolves around the US. Well, it doesn't. Our power is in decline.

The "Arab Spring" is due to the courage of people who finally had enough of the oppression to make them rebel and risk everything they had, including their lives, to be free of their dictatorial governments.

;-)

[WCGreen]

76. I think that election Obama made it seem as if it can happen there it

can happen here.

You gotta look at the whole scope. None of this started until president Obama gave his speech over there in Cairo.

It may have been the tipping point, but it was part of the reason everything happened when it happened.

[BlueIris]

38. OUCH. And spot on. nt

[MissDeeds]

74. +1

[emilyg]

83. +1

[PufPuf23]

86. POTUS Obama and the USA are adjusting to new reality in the ME

not determining (similar to Reagan).

One cannot claim that the USA has a consistent strategy in the ME. We support Israel and Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates, regardless. Saudi Arabia with the technolgy of acquiesence of the USA support status quo in Bahrain and Yemen. The fact that the Russians have military in Syria limits UN/NATO/USA involvement. The best strategy once we illegally attacked Iraq was to make Kurdistan, Sunnistan, and Shistan the 51st to 53rd States.

The USA is reactionary and conservative, yet pre-emptive and broke and amoral while a minority clings to God to make sense.

More trouble every day.

[uppityperson]

4. the fall of bush may have something to do with it, but I think the people involved have their own

agenda, irregardless of if the President's name is "strange" or not. I don't think it is about the usa, though it may have played a part

[demmiblue]

5. Lol!

[Luminous Animal]

6. You have got to be kidding.

Activists in Egypt had been working for a decade for their Arab Spring.

This is an excellent example of American exceptionalism.

[Posteritatis]

12. To say nothing of the self-immolation in Tunisia that kicked the whole thing off

I don't think those guys cared much about the name of the American president, any more than the people in neighbouring countries deciding to try and follow their example did.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. This isn't American exceptionalism. It's industrial strength Obama Derangement Syndrome. n/t

[Ikonoklast]

58. Now With Lemon Scent!

:rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. The stupidity of US policy hurts us often, look at israel, and how

We support them 100% no matter what the facts on the ground are.

[bhikkhu]

80. Very true - if nothing else, Obama might take credit for not screwing up the Arab Spring

It wouldn't be hard to come up with a long list of stupid things that prior presidents have done in similar circumstances to screw up perfectly good "rising up against oppression" movements, which Obama didn't do.

[scheming daemons]

8. This is Democratic Underground. Praise for a Democratic President is frowned upon.

[wickerwoman]

24. If he earns it, fine.

Do you think (as the OP posits) that Obama should be praised for:

a. having a foreign sounding name and/or

b. inspiring the Arab Spring by being a brown person in a position of importance?

Don't you think it's a little bit offensive to the kids who stared down the barrels of guns to suggest that their successes are really down to the US people having the foresight to elect someone descended from people from a country that is kind of close to theirs?

[Scurrilous]

48. Yep.

It ain't cool. :P

[sabrina 1]

9. You're joking, right?

The US official position on both Ben Ali of Tunisia and especially on Mubarak right up to the point where the people had actually WON, was that 'Mubarak is a valuable ally of the US' and from Joe Biden ~ 'No, Mubarak is NOT a dictator, he is a friend'.

As for Libya, yes, the US CAN probably take credit for helping its European allies to topple that regime, but I'm I doubt it's something we will be celebrating any more than we are celebrating Iraq.

[Hydra]

16. Thank you for saying it!

I still remember how the US position on Mubarak was that he was our guy and we might be willing to throw them a bone...if they all went home for the secret police to pick up.

[scentopine]

31. moved - nt

[Demeter]

10. Absolutely NOT

Obama did not start, respond appropriately, nor applaud the Arab spring, and then he bombed Libya.

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. Americans deserve HEAPS of praise for electing a man with a strange name.

Because nothing Barack Hussein Obama did brought about the "arab spring".

Are you fucking serious?

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Of course he does

In 20 years, it will be viewed as one of the signal accomplishments of his first term.

The people here who hate Obama like poison will make up the usual nonsense, but this has been a foreign policy initiative since day one, and it has succeeded beyond anyone's wildest hopes. That a few haters can't tell the difference between hedged official statements and actual policy should not be a worry. They will find any excuse whatsoever to despise Obama. What will become clear as the historical record is clarified is that this administration fostered one of the great social changes in world history. Fostered. One need not deny the agency of the Arab populations to make such a claim. The fact is that the US did everything in its power to quell such agency until Obama became President. At that point, the US stopped blocking resistance and the agency of the Arab street took the course it's been trying to take for 20 years. Why? Because it reached critical mass, and because the behind the scene support for these dictatorships evaporated. Period. There will be books about it. The people who hate Obama the person can say what they want. The accomplishment is manifest and world historical.

[Ruby the Liberal]

18. !!

I don't hate the man by any stretch of the imagination, but thanks for conflating/confusing disappointment for "hate".

With this post, you have outdone yourself.

:rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Whatever

[dameocrat67]

33. yeah right up there with the invasion of granada!

n/t

[Solomon]

62. thank you.

The deniers here don't matter. The election of Obama along with the Cairo speech was a spark that kindled the growing powder keg.

What I find amazing is people here don't even want to give him credit for HOW he is handling the crisis. Can you even begin to imagine what republicans would have done?

But then again, it wouldn't have happened under republican watch.

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. Are you serious?

No. This has nothing to do with him or the US.

Let these people have their moment, ok?

[jaxx]

21. Well, he did say this:

Transcript: Obama Seeks 'New Beginning' In Cairo
June 4, 2009

<..> The fourth issue that I will address is democracy. (Applause.)
I know — I know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years, and much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear: No system of government can or should be imposed by one nation by any other.

That does not lessen my commitment, however, to governments that reflect the will of the people. Each nation gives life to this principle in its own way, grounded in the traditions of its own people. America does not presume to know what is best for everyone, just as we would not presume to pick the outcome of a peaceful election. But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn't steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights. And that is why we will support them everywhere. (Applause.)

Now, there is no straight line to realize this promise. But this much is clear: Governments that protect these rights are ultimately more stable, successful and secure. Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. America respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard around the world, even if we disagree with them. And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments — provided they govern with respect for all their people.

This last point is important because there are some who advocate for democracy only when they're out of power; once in power, they are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others. (Applause.) So no matter where it takes hold, government of the people and by the people sets a single standard for all who would hold power: You must maintain your power through consent, not coercion; you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104923292

[girl gone mad]

22. In as much as the bank bailouts led directly to rampant commodities inflation..

then, yes, he deserves credit.

Since the Arab Spring is a revolution in response to neoliberalism, and Obama is himself a neoliberal, I don't think he can take credit in the way that you think he should. Poor people were pushed to the brink when they had to start paying their day's wages for a loaf of bread because a bunch of Wall Street speculators were given free money to gamble with after their housing bets went south.

[woo me with science]

23. This is the correct answer.

We are witnessing a global banking and corporate strategy to thieve from and economically enslave entire populations. People revolted because they were put into desperate situations by the very same corrupt banking policies that this administration is defending, enabling, and abetting.

It's our turn soon.

[Ruby the Liberal]

25. ^ This ^

[Red Mountain]

26. Sure.

As much as for realizing what we can't do and applying what pressure we can afford as much as anything else.

I've felt his approach was pragmatic.

I love me some pragmatism in an elected official.

[Marrah_G]

27. The world does not revolve around the USA

And by your very strange train of thought, the credit would go to his parents for naming him.......

[Bluebear]

28. Obama's name encouraged young Arabs? Wow.

[elias7]

29. Jeez....what venom...Welcome to the hate Obama club

Disagree with the OP? Perhaps you may, but to be met with such sarcasm and ridicule ...

Stop with the hatred already; it's turning people off

[Bluebear]

36. Your definition of disagree is hate though?

[elias7]

46. Not at all.

My reading of hate is disagreement punctuated by sarcasm and ridicule.

We are also defining hate differently. You are using a strict definition. I am using a looser one...despise, have contempt for, etc....as in, "I hate Rush Limbaugh." No, I don't hate him, but I think he's an asshole, I have contempt for his views, I despise his self-righteousness, and fear his influence. It's easier just to say hate, (my expression would be saying, "if you know what I mean").

The same pack seems to comes out in each thread...someone always brings up Obama derangement syndrome, and someone always seconds that and thirds that. Someone always says, "Are you series???!!!11??....and on and on, as if those who still support Obama are blind to what policies are being passed and not passed. As if we don't see the struggles and capitulations. I would not underestimate the magnitude of what he is up against, however, and wonder how a lesser man would have fared in this climate.

They impeached Clinton, destroyed Gore, cheated past Kerry, and nearly put Sarah Palin in the White House. They rescinded collective bargaining in WI and threaten unions around the country. They have the money, they control the media, and they make and break the rules, and are controlling the debate during this recession, pitting the poor against each other through fear and false rhetoric.

I, for one am so pleased that W. is no longer president, that a democrat (?) won the election, that we even have any traction against the Right wing machine despite loss of media control and loss of message control, while fighting a foe that is willing to do anything and say anything to meet their ends. We are fighting the forces of fascism, and I, for one Obama supporter, feel scared and let down, but also feel some gratitude and draw some strength from all the crap that hasn't happened and has been accomplished.

I am not a fool or delusional. I have merely placed my goalposts at a different angle from you.

[Bluebear]

47. Sorry, I think it's ludicrous to say that Obama's name was a catalyst here

That is my one and only point despite your lengthy critique

[elias7]

51. Thanks for the thoughtful response. Guess I won't try so hard next time...

My response wasn't really a critique, but a clarification. You engaged me, not the other way around.

But here, as with your response to the OP, I think you may be distorting the meaning of those you respond to by taking their words too literally.

[Bluebear]

69. .

[Capitalocracy]

61. That's not hate, that's just the internet

That's how ideas are communicated online, didn't you know that?

Internetspeak is a slightly different language. Here, "you suck monkey nuts" means "I respectfully disagree".

[Bluebear]

68. Oh STFU

Meant lovingly.

:) good post

[Capitalocracy]

73. .

:toast:

[Marrah_G]

89. It's met with ridicule becuase the OP was ridiculous .....

[JCMach1]

30. Ask the people of Bahrain about that!

[hulka38]

81. Or Egypt.

[dameocrat67]

32. he muddled it actually by making it an American action

and by the way we still cant afford the damn thing or we would not be attacking the poor.

[spanone]

34. bullshit.

[scentopine]

35. No. And he cannot take credit for the recovery summer, either. -nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Hmm not really

the PROCESS that led to this started a generation ago in the Arab world...

It would be like claiming that Louis XVI election had a thing to do with the American Revolution.

[RetroLounge]

39. "Americans elected a man wth a strange name"

:rofl:

RL

[Bluebear]

44. And that name inspired the Arab youth!!

:silly:

[Marrah_G]

90. Because the world revolves around the US

And no one in any other country can make choice for themselves..........

[GeorgeGist]

40. Let's wait and see the harvest.

[JI7]

41. no, but if you start a thread about Obama starting the wars in Libya and Syria those will get a lot

of recs.

Obama does deserve credit for reaching out to the Arab and Muslim world. it's one of the first things concerning foreign relations that he did.

the corrupt leaders could no longer blame America as easily as when Bush was President. the people didn't think Obama is some evil figure like they did with Bush.

[Bluebear]

50. Not at all! Obama's name made young Arab men ambitious!

:silly:

[Fumesucker]

54. I wonder when he's going to reach out the Bahrainis..?

All dictatorships are equal, it's just that some are more equal than others.

[JoeyT]

42. Yeah, and the weather cooled off nicely here.

I think He deserves some credit for that.

Jesus Christ.

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. Would've happened without him

and it was the UK and France that led the way in support of the Libyan rebels, not the US.

[Heywood J]

45. Yes. We should thank him for getting us into a third simultaneous war.

Despite any laws limiting such powers.

[Number23]

49. Shockingly DU says 'no'

(That's some heavy sarcasm, by the way with that "shockingly")

Actual Libyans say something completely different


http://thinkprogress.org/security/2011/08/22/300927/photos-libyans-applaud-president-obama-and-international-allies-with-large-thank-you-sign/

[Luminous Animal]

71. The OP said that Obama sparked the Arab Spring which started in Dec. 2010. Nothing about Libya.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

88. .

[seaglass]

52. The domino effect of middle east democracy - one of Bush's selling points for the Iraq War.

I'm really hesitant about giving ANYONE credit for this - if it ends up being democracy - with the exception of the citizens of the countries that made it happen.

[mattclearing]

53. There have been mistakes, but the end result is much more successful than Iraq/Afghanistan.

I'm not sure how much credit the White House ultimately deserves, but I think Obama deserves credit for getting out of the way for the most part, choosing his words and timing carefully, and for picking the right side in Libya (you know that wasn't a given), if a bit late for my tastes.

At the time the Libyan campaign began, I said it was too late to win and the likely result would be quagmire. That's still a possibility, but it's turned out better than expected.

I generally don't approve of these adventures, but letting the revolution get mowed down by the man whose name I will decline to spell didn't sit well with me, either.

edited for typo

[JoePhilly]

55. There are 2 anti-Obama memes playing out about Libya on DU currently ...

The first, prevalent in this thread, comes to the conclusion that these events are good things, but that Obama deserves absolutely no credit for any of it.

The second, prevalent in another DU OP, is that this is a bad set of events, Obama was very much involved, too much so in fact, and he's doing this just to get the oil.

Two completely different anti-Obama positions living in harmony on DU.

Personally, I'd like these two groups to get together and figure out which of their anti-Obama views on this is the right one ... and then get back to us.

[MadHound]

56. You think the Arab Spring happened in part due to Obama's name?

Geez, the cheerleading has reached a new low.

[blindpig]

57. No

The US government has been playing catch up since the start, trying surreptitiously to put the genie back in the bottle or at least control it. The action in Libya has nothing to do with the 'Arab Spring', it is imperialism.

[Ikonoklast]

59. So, insurrection against an authoritarian dictator is...?

[blindpig]

65. ...actually a NATO intervention predicated upon a gang of...

religiously conservative, out of favor tribal leaders opportunistically raising the flag of revolt in anticipation of said intervention.

Should the authoritarian regime be toppled it will be replaced with the dictatorship of Capital. This has nothing to do with Tunisia or Egypt, that is a Western media construct.

[Capitalocracy]

60. Perhaps they felt Obama was less likely to kill them all than Bush

And they're pretty much right, I don't like to think about how a Republican president might have responded. So it's faint praise out of context, but given the situation we're in, I'll take it.

[Romulox]

63. Um, what about the lost wars in Iraq, Afghanistan??? No "Arab Spring" in those countries, I guess

:hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

64. This has to be one of the dumbest theories I've seen yet. The Arab Spring is because of his NAME????

Oh man . . . . .

And it is said his critics reach for straws. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

82. !

[unapatriciated]

66. sounds like we deserve the praise...

"the fact that Americans elected a man wth a strange name made young Arab folks ambitious."

[Iggo]

67. For not completely fucking it up?

Okay.

[white_wolf]

70. No. I think the Arab people deserve full credit for the arab spring.

They are the ones who risked their lives for it, not Obama and not the U.S.

[indurancevile]

75. you think because the US president's name = "Barack Hussein" Arabs revolted?

lol.

The Egyptian labor movement that actually precipitated the Egyptian revolt (though our media never tell us that) predated Obama's election.

The Libyan "rebels" had been getting US assistance long before their "revolution".

The other hot spots = long-standing targets of US/western intervention, covert aid & meddling.

[akbacchus_BC]

77. Seriously, what did Obama have to do with the uprisings in the middle east?

[Bluebear]

91. His name, apparently

[MADem]

78. Absolutely.

Will he feel much love here from the Obama Sucks crew? Probably not.

They don't remember (or want to remember) that he had the stones to go over that way, and give some key speeches, like that biggie in Cairo.

[Number23]

85. Look at some of these response. Some of these folks don't even know what the Arab Spring is

Or what countries are/have been affected. Of course, that never EVER stops them from commenting. Or trying to get a jab in at the president, even if it reveals just how terribly little they know about an issue.

[MADem]

87. It's disturbing.

It doesn't make sense to me, either. I've never seen anything quite like it, even on websites where a bit of 'intellectual muscle' is uncommon.

It has the appearance of something orchestrated.

[Scurrilous]

79. Great thread!

Chock full o' constructive criticism with no bitter aftertaste.

:thumbsup:

[MilesColtrane]

84. Just wait til you see the Bush Library's special display on how...

Operation Iraqi Freedom was the spark that ignited the Arab Spring.

You'll puke your nuts out.

[Bluebear]

94. I can imagine that!