Sad thought. What if there are more of them than there are of us?

[NightWatcher]

What if there are more people who support the repukes?

What if there are more people who don't give a damn about clean air and water?

What if we, the positive, the peaceniks, the hopeful are in the minority?

What happens if we're right and they're wrong, but there are more of them?

Should we receed into the hills? Should we evangelize and try to convert the wrong people over to our side?

Kinda bummed, thanks Wisconsin (KIDDING!)

[scheming daemons]

1. poll after poll after poll shows that not to be true

As for Wisconsin, 6 heavily Republican districts, and we won 2.

That's a good sign.

[MBS]

13. Thanks very much for the reminder.

I was so depressed by the results that I'd forgotten those important facts. Yes, these are Republican incumbents from Republican districts; thus, this was an uphill battle from day 1. The fact that the recalls even happened at all is amazing in itself; and the fact that we took two of them down is something to be hopeful about. I'll try to hang onto that hope.

[Liberalynn]

24. That's what I keep trying to tell myself too.

[Firebrand Gary]

2. We are at a crossroads and I wonder which way we will go.

I can no longer support the Democratic party with the way it currently stands. The Tea party is so successful because they hold their elected officials accountable. Why is it that our elected officials treat us like shit. We need to install fear into these fools, they need to understand that we send them to DC with expectations and values and that we demand they keep them.

The other road I reference in the cross road is not to vote. That will change their tune real quick. I realize thats a wild statement, however what more do we have to do? I am tired of fighting just as hard in general elections as I am with my own party. Its like fighting two battles back to back.

[LiberalLoner]

27. NO - we HAVE to vote. Not voting will mean the pukes win EVERY FREAKING TIME. n/t

[calimary]

3. I've been wondering that myself. What if we're facing a losing battle - on everything

Progressives have worked for, over decades?

Is the deck becoming TOO stacked? I mean - Citizens United. I rest my case. Are we destined to be on the losing end? Always to be outshouted, suppressed, ignored by the media and our own supposed leaders, scorned by small but loud and lopsidedly influential minorities? Is THAT what we face?

I know that old saying about the pendulum. Will it ever swing back? Will it swing back while I'm still alive to see it (I'm 58) or will I be long dead before my views become the prevalent ones? The days of the '60s and '70s, when the good guys tended to have the upper hand, seem SO distant.

Everything we've worked for - for true progress and opportunity and equality for all - for equal rights, gender rights, voting rights, women's rights, workers' rights, are ALL of those to be kicked to the corner? Is ALL of that innovation and progress to be negated, rolled back, overridden, nullified, trampled?

Sometimes I am not hopeful.

What I find REALLY galling is, every so often getting some Zogby-type poll or seeing poll results that ask "right direction or off on the wrong track" and it's NEVER a fair question. What if I think the country's off on the wrong track - because of the teabaggers and fundy wackos and other assorted morans and freakazoids and pirates - and NOT so much my own leadership? Like what if I think things are going in the wrong direction but it's NOT because there are Democrats in the White House or it's all Obama's fault? You can't answer that way because there's no fine-tuning to it. If you say "wrong track," it's going to be viewed as a slap at Obama rather than the abnormal, unrealistic, and lopsided clout that the minority has these days.

Wishing so badly for a night of good political news. It just seems to be either bad, badder, or baddest. Will 2008 have been our last triumph? I was thinking back yesterday (August 9th) when our movement finally freed us from a bad president. We actually got rid of one bad guy. Funny enough, considering what's happened and who's come along since, Nixon doesn't look like such a bad guy anymore and so help me, I NEVER thought I'd say that, much less start thinking it. And that was in 1974. It's been that long since I've felt as though we really WON something significant.

:(

[OHdem10]

4. Every district tonight was a Republican District., meaning there

are more Republicans than Democrasts in each district.

This is what is so inspiring. The Democrats went into
Republican Districts taking the fight to them on their
turf. They won 2 seats. In the others they came close
very clos.

This should make people proud. They convinced some Republicans
to go out and vote for them.

Nussbaum, one of the Dems said the Rural Republicans are just
beginning to wake up. This only means we work harder.

[calimary]

5. The Rural republi-CONS are just beginning to wake up - to what?

Waking up to voting more forcefully for their own? Or waking up to how grievously they're being had?

[OHdem10]

7. Becoming aware that they are bing had.

[Cool Logic]

12. Everybody has been had...

[calimary]

30. I hope so. But I'm not counting on it. I've learned never to underestimate the

gullibility, willful ignorance, and utter pig-headed stupidity of the American electorate. They can be bought, they can be led, they can be hornswoggled, they can be sweet-talked, they can be lied to up one side of the room and down the other, and too many of them vote reactively, and without thinking. Certainly without any objective, LONGTERM thinking.

[LemmingWarrior]

14. Daily Kos QUOTE:

"We took the fight into red territory, and took two seats. What was a safe 19-14 GOP advantage is now a narrow 17-16. If we had those numbers going into 2011, the anti-labor bill would never have passed—one GOPer voted with the Democrats (and hey, Sen. Dale Schultz, the water is mighty fine on our side of the aisle!).

The execrable Randy Hopper is gone. He can cry in his 20-somethi­ng-year-ol­d mistress's arms tonight. And Kapanke too. It sucks being unemployed in Wisconsin these days. Maybe they can get a non-union job at McDonald's­."

http://www­.dailykos.­com/

[calimary]

29. That's one good point to repeat: WE gained ground. The bad guys didn't.

Okay so we didn't take back the Wisconsin State Senate. We got close. And yeah, I know, close but no cigar. NEVERTHELESS, this is a good point to keep in perspective - and on the tip of your lips. The GOP advantage is sliver-thin. May even be lost because of the single moderate Republican still in there who didn't vote with them last time either.

We gained ground, driving deeper into enemy territory. Add that to Kathy Hochul's recent victory in blood-red NY 26, grabbing that Congressional seat away from a staunch republi-CON in a staunch GOP district. We're INVADING AND TAKING THEIR TERRITORY. And if Dems can hold on next week when two of theirs are up for recall (thank you knee-jerk republi-CON ASSHOLES!) then the tally will be - that they came in up six. So far they're down two, and we're not.

[Scuba]

20. +1

[Skidmore]

6. KO last night pointed out that Wisconsin had been gerrymandered

to ensure that parties had dedicated districts. Wonder how much that has to do with the results?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

23. It has a lot to do with it. Those districts were gerrymandered 10 years ago to give ReTHUGs the edge

That's how we got here. Well, since the legislature is STILL controlled by ReTHUGS, they will redistrict yet again and could gain more seats. That's why it is incumbent on us to work harder to GOTV. All is not lost if we work hard at the local levels.

That's why many of us have been spitting out a spleen trying to get people to be active in local and state politics. All the bad changes are taking place at the state level with ALEC, the Koch Bros., redistricting schemes.

We MUST be engaged at the local and state levels, and it has very little to do with Obama and congressional Democrats!

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. Have you had the opportunity to view the movie 'Idiocracy'?

Highly recommend renting it. It explains much.

Although it is supposed to be satire/comedy, I am afraid we have arrived.

[Bonobo]

9. Sadder thought is "we" are "them". nt

[LemmingWarrior]

10. When they experience life under the Repug/bagger rule

they'll coming running back crying like babies. When Democracy is replaced with Theocracy and Plutocracy even then it's not too late to turn back, just harder. That's the stuff revolutions are made of..... ;)

[999998th word]

16. I tell them to 'get back to me in 5 years and then let me know

if you're any better off',if they insist their view is the only right view.They stubbornly refuse to believe we are all on the same sinking boat.
Hard core tea baggers live to gloat over their perceived victories. When they win NOBODY WINS.

[JDPriestly]

11. Then we have to change their minds.

If we know we are right, we have to be willing to talk to people and change their minds.

Start by learning facts. Then practice using them.

Form a group of Democrats who discuss the issues.

A book club in which you read books on the issues is a good way to start.

A lot of Democrats are not successful in discussing issues with Republicans because, in spite of their good instincts, they don't know their history and their facts.

So that is where to start. --Learn the facts and then listen to Republicans and use the facts you have learned to dispute their ideas. Note where you read or hear things so that you can tell the people you talk to where to corroborate what you are saying.

Be like a scientist about political issues. Think for yourself and don't just accept what someone else says -- even if it is Obama or Kucinich. Question everything so that you own it and can argue it without needing to be hostile.

That's how we Democrats can win. Because we have to educate voters, not just ask them to vote for our candidates.

And watch out. Don't support a Democrat unless you feel in your heart that they are right and honest. I learned that with John Edwards. I like his stances on the issues, but he let those of us who supported him down.

[Ruby the Liberal]

15. Well done. I linked to an interesting article on this, but haven't finished digesting it yet

with all of the Market/London/Wisconsin news tonight. It is on my plate for tomorrow, so posted it as to not forget.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x619703

[JDPriestly]

18. Thanks. Agreed.

[Liberalynn]

26. Agreed we just need to start making are points more forcibly!

We need to make them see the common sense of the Progressive side. They also need to understand that cutting the Social Safety net endangers everyone including themselves and their families not just nameless strangers.

We have to be passionate and authoritative, not lukewarm and pleading. JMHO!

[Bluebear]

17. NW, I don't think there are more of them. I think there are more apathetic & unaware.

NASCAR is rolling, American Idol is coming up again, Americans think we are the greatest and always will be and don't pay any attention.

[Scuba]

19. As their policies are implemented, personal tragedies pile up for the American People....

...and only personal tragedy will change their minds once they've drunk the right-wing koolaid.



This suggests that things will then swing back, but unfortunately, much damage will be done before that happens. We're seeing that in Wisconsin right now.

[mwb970]

21. But there aren't.

We are being bedeviled and brought down by a minority of a minority of a minority, who are handed a huge megaphone and a platform to stand on and screech self-evident nonsense and enraged gibberish.

Our political discourse is dominated at the moment by a loud, nasty, strident group of right-wing extremists. Extremists are by definition "out of the mainstream", and these awful baggers are way, WAY out of the American mainstream. Their positions and leaders are rejected by 60, 70, 80% of the public. Our craven media puts these vastly outnumbered lunatics front and center every day because controversy draws viewers.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. There is not more of them. There are more of us. They are just louder, more organized,

have more money, and get their lemmings to vote!

Look at DU: we are unorganized. We are disunited. We scream and shout at each other (I'm guilty of it, too).

Unless we organize. Unless we unite against these trenches of power, we will continue to lose.

There is not more of them than there are of us.

[alterfurz]

25. Things are not quite bad enough yet for enough people to act...

...but not to worry, they soon will be!

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. -- Frederick Douglass

Beyond a certain point there is no return. This point has to be reached. -- Kafka

Almost there now.

[deutsey]

28. If that's true (and I'm not sure it is)

then as a country we're going to continue on a path that will lead us back to Gilded Age conditions here.

Entrenched, widespread poverty, overwork/underpay, poor work conditions, tainted food, polluted environment, a greedy ruling minority, etc.

In other words, the same conditions that helped to make progressivism so appealing to so many people in the first place.

I sometimes think progressivism has been a victim of its own success. After so many people benefited from the progressive gains made throughout the 20th century, they forgot what it took (the hard struggles, the literal fighting and dying) for them to enjoy those benefits. Then they were swayed by the Reaganite lie that one day they'll be even more better off if they jumped on-board the Reagan something-for-nothing bandwagon.

Of course, Stockman told everyone that the real agenda underlying the Reagan Reaction was to dismantle the very progressive gains people benefited from, but too many people were blinded by the waving flags and false promise of individual wealth to care, apparently.

[mmonk]

31. If that is the case, then they need to be educated as to facts

about them voting to screw themselves.

[butterfly77]

32. They have been ...

stealing elections for years.