Fukushima: Now THIS is REALLY frightening:

[PCIntern]

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/03/fukushima-disaster-exposed-far-worse-than-a-nuclear-bomb/

Fukushima disaster: worse than Hiroshima
by Ben Sandilands
More gravely serious truths about the severity of the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster following the earthquake and tsunami of March 11 have emerged.

Two things are now clear and they justify the following charges: the nuclear experts that the Australian media relied upon should never be trusted again; and social media real-time raw and unfiltered audio and video reports are providing a more truthful and relevant coverage of the aftermath of the continuing nuclear crisis than the selective and filtered copy being carried by print and wire agencies.

While the Bloomberg news report overnight of two extremely high radiation readings being recorded at the Fukushima complex of nuclear plants on August 1 and August 2 are alarming, other significant disclosures are also made in this story.

++++++++++++++++

But the really frightening part follows...

[no_hypocrisy]

1. The contamination is so high that it can no longer be measured?

That IS scary.

[robcon]

5. What's scary is that you believe it can't be measured.

Pathetic.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Um...

The measuring devices have a ten sievert limit and they're pegged. It's not immeasurable, it immeasurable with the devices at hand.

[ljm2002]

26. So in practice, at the present time, with the devices at hand...

...it is immeasurable.

It doesn't matter if it is measurable in theory. Of course that is true. What is also true, is that it cannot be measured right now, with the devices that are in place to measure it. Therefore, we do not know what the actual radiation level is at those spots.

I read in another thread, that these may be hot spots due to placement of fuel rod pieces after the explosions. That makes sense to me. So it would not be a flat rate super high radiation level, but still, even spots like that are very concerning.

But let's not kid ourselves: we can't measure the actual radiation level right now, since the devices in place are pegged. Therefore we cannot get an accurate picture of the actual levels. And that is indeed alarming.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. OK

:shrug:

[ljm2002]

36. Sorry...

...I replied to the wrong post. Meant to reply to post #5.

[FogerRox]

42. Reminds me of my 81 Mazda Rx-7

The speedometer only went up to 85.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truebrit71]

2. Wow....

Wonder what happened to our merry band of nuke-apologists...??

[Cetacea]

10. They only work when a crises is being heavily covered by MSM

The pattern was the same during the BP crises.

[Pooka Fey]

3. *Gulp* you might want to sit down before reading...

[PearliePoo2]

4. Thanks for the link to that publication!

It's a very nice Australian site that strives to be independent and is not part of any media conglomeration.
It DOES have a subscription requirement though.

More from the article:

For the first time a tenured nuclear expert Tetsuo Ito, the head of the Atomic Energy Research Institute at Kinki University concedes that the melted cores of one or more reactors may have melted through the supposedly failure proof containment vessel floor, sinking deeper into the subsoil and given the nature of the radioactive material concerned, into a position where it can spread a very long distance directly through the subsoil water table.

In what would be consistent with a deliberate policy of gradually revealing the truth some months after the event, the Japanese nuclear authorities and government are also now routinely referring to the fact that contamination levels outside the exclusion zone around the Fukushima Daiichi complex include hot spots that are as highly affected as they were around the Chernobyl reactor that exploded in the former Soviet Union 25 years ago.

[robdogbucky]

6. Monitoring for radiation now an activity for regular people

Thursday, Aug. 4, 2011


Taking matters into their own hands

Monitoring for radiation now an activity for regular people

By JUNKO HORIUCHI

Kyodo
FUKUSHIMA — A radiation measurement station in the city of Fukushima is drawing people skeptical about government information on the nuclear crisis and keen to find out quickly if their food is safe.

The station, set up by a citizens' group, boasts a German device to check radiation. It is one of the projects in this city about 50 km from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant aimed at helping people get their own scientific information.

Takenori Chiba, a machinery company employee from Miharu, around 40 km from the stricken plant, brought 500 grams of potatoes and 500 grams of onions to the station asking the staff to test them for radioactivity.

"I can't sit around waiting for the government or the municipal authority to do something for us. I wanted to act on my own," Chiba, 37, said. "The station is very helpful because even though I was concerned about the contamination around my house I didn't know what to do..."

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110804f1.html



Industry minister sacks 3 top officials to end cozy ties over nuclear power policy

Industry minister Banri Kaieda, under pressure to put an end to cozy ties between government regulators and utilities over Japan's nuclear power policy, announced on Aug. 4 plans to sack three high-ranking officials in charge of nuclear policy.

The government is also considering separating the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) in an attempt to restructure METI through a virtual total overhaul.

The three officials facing the axe are METI Administrative Vice Minister Kazuo Matsunaga, NISA Director General Nobuaki Terasaka and Tetsuhiro Hosono, director general of the Agency for Natural Resources and Energy.

The crisis at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant triggered by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami destroyed the safety myth about nuclear energy and METI came under fire for its handling of the nuclear disaster...

(Mainichi Japan) August 4, 2011

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110804p2a00m0na013000c.html





TEPCO struggling to treat contaminated water at crippled nuclear plant

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) is struggling to treat a massive amount of water contaminated with radioactive substances at its crisis-stricken Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant.

The problems stem from persistent instability in a system that went into full operation on July 2 to purify highly radioactive water and use it to cool down the plant's reactor cores. As a result, the amount of radioactive water in the reactor buildings and other areas of the plant grounds is in fact increasing.

The water purification and recycle system must be stabilized to bring the crippled power plant under control if the evacuation orders issued in areas around the plant are to be lifted anytime soon.

"The number of technical problems has decreased, but we still can't say operations have been stabilized," Junichi Matsumoto, deputy head of TEPCO's nuclear power division, told a news conference on Aug. 3...

(Mainichi Japan) August 4, 2011

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110804p2a00m0na010000c.html

[marions ghost]

25. Do it yourself radiation monitoring

:grr:

[marions ghost]

7. what we're not hearing about Fukushima:

from the article:

Kodama says the uranium equivalent of the contamination released by the three affected reactor cores and four cooling ponds at Fukushima was that of 20 Hiroshima-sized atom bombs:

“What is more frightening is that whereas the radiation from a nuclear bomb will decrease to one-thousandth in one year, the radiation from a nuclear power plant will only decrease to one-tenth.

“In other words, we should recognise from the start that just like Chernobyl, Fukushima I Nuclear Plant has released radioactive materials equivalent in the amount to tens of nuclear bombs, and the resulting contamination is far worse than the contamination by a nuclear bomb.”

[Cetacea]

9. Bring on the DU nuke apologists

"The constant refrain that Fukushima would never be a level-seven..."

Thanks for the link. I have little doubt that some of the apologists the article sites were right here on DU.

[flamingdem]

17. Right now it sounds like it should be graded Level 11 nt

[marions ghost]

23. Some days

you wish the apologists were here. When they give up, you know it's REALLY bad.

The silence is deafening.

[robcon]

39. Bring on the DU nuke scare-mongers.

n/t

[Cetacea]

48. Right. We all believed that BP only killed forty-nine dolphins

not


http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/rkistner/number_of_dead_dolphins_in_gul.html

That is way beyond an extinction level event for gulf sperm whales. And no one is reporting about it.
Each violation of the Marine Mammal Protection Act carries a 100k dollar fine if I'm not mistaken...No one wonder why they were burying carcasses after the sun went down...

If you want to believe numbers from BP or Tepko that is your decision. But to attack others who are trying to get the truth or who are speculating what the real numbers are is not very constructive, imo.

[PearliePoo2]

11. More from the article:

In what would be consistent with a deliberate policy of gradually revealing the truth some months after the event, the Japanese nuclear authorities and government are also now routinely referring to the fact that contamination levels outside the exclusion zone around the Fukushima Daiichi complex include hot spots that are as highly affected as they were around the Chernobyl reactor that exploded in the former Soviet Union 25 years ago.

In the English language transcripts of these videos, notably on the Penn-Olsen Asia tech blog, Kodama says he is shaking with anger at the incompetence and dishonesty of the government and nuclear authorities and the TEPCO power company in the aftermath of the accident. He attacks the use of simplistic readings that ignore for example the accumulation of deadly isotopes at the foot of slippery slides in children’s playgrounds in favour of readings at the top from which rain has washed away the contamination.

The readings, like the children, are being cooked, either by ignorance or intent.

[Generic Other]

12. I am shaking with anger says Prof. Kodama (captioned video)

http://enenews.com/i-am-shaking-with-anger-says-head-of-university-of-tokyos-radioisotope-center-before-talking-about-internal-radiation-video

[robdogbucky]

13. Japan’s Fukushima catastrophe brings big radiation spikes to B.C.

Thursday, August 4, 2011

Japan’s Fukushima catastrophe brings big radiation spikes to B.C.
Alex Roslin


"...Meanwhile, government officials claimed there was nothing to worry about. “The quantities of radioactive materials reaching Canada as a result of the Japanese nuclear incident are very small and do not pose any health risk to Canadians,” Health Canada says on its website. “The very slight increases in radiation across the country have been smaller than the normal day-to-day fluctuations from background radiation.”

In fact, Health Canada’s own data shows this isn’t true. The iodine-131 level in the air in Sidney peaked at 3.6 millibecquerels per cubic metre on March 20. That’s more than 300 times higher than the background level, which is 0.01 or fewer millibecquerels per cubic metre.

“There have been massive radiation spikes in Canada because of Fukushima,” said Gordon Edwards, president of the Canadian Coalition for Nuclear Responsibility.

“The authorities don’t want people to have an understanding of this. The government of Canada tends to pooh-pooh the dangers of nuclear power because it is a promoter of nuclear energy and uranium sales...”


http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/2011/08/japans-fukushima-catastrophe-brings-big.html

[PCIntern]

14. "Just like eating a banana!"....

Where oh where are all those nuke-friendly folk? Maybe they're under Bush's lectern where he was looking for the WMD's...

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Just like eating a banana while flying in an airplane....nothing to worry about! n/t

[Frank Cannon]

45. Like eating a glow-in-the-dark banana while flying in an airplane...

and having an in-flight chest x-ray!

[divvy]

15. Worst Case Scenario is that Japan will have to be evacuated.

Tokyo is only about 70 miles away, and there is more than enough fuel on site to end Japan as we know it for hundreds of years.

[robdogbucky]

19. Wait, divvy, you sound just like one of those

Extreme Enviroweenie Biased Claptrap spewing fear-mongers.

Rather than the experienced worker with reactors and nuke power that you really are.

What is your current take on the situation? Other than what your post indicates of course, as I respect your opinion, believe me.

We have dodged several bullets thus far, aftershocks, typhoons, etc., and those in the face of the obvious coverups, lies, and the drip, drip, drip of succeeding demoralizing news. Like the timeframe estimates recently published for final containment/cleanup jumping from a pessimistic 10 years to now the unbelievable estimate of 20 years. Of course, Chernobyl is still a problem and probably needs a re-built sarcophogus at this point, but hey, don't let reality stop us from builging more of these ticking time bombs.


divvy, speak now and educate us.




Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[divvy]

46. Hi Rob, Did you see this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=648970&mesg_id=648970

Somewhere in that thread is a link to a Tepco document which details their re-racking plan for spent fuel and an estimate in tons that is currently on site.

It is a lot of typing. Seriously though, there is more than enough spent fuel on site to contaminate the entire Island of Japan. Those reactors and spent fuel pools will not take care of themselves. They will need human hands on valves and switchgear. The worst-case risk will most likely be due to an uninhabitable facility. There are "hot-spots" of radiation that measure 10S which is enough to kill within seconds.

Link here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43982727/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/

I was told that if a crane pulled one bundle of fuel out of the water in the spent fuel pool, everyone on the refuel floor would have received a lethal dose of radiation by the time the bundle broke the surface of the water. Obviously, there were designs to prevent that. I don't know if this is true or not, but I never had any reason to doubt it. Now, imagine these bundles uncovered like in U4 or blown far and wide like U1-3. I would be shocked if there weren't lethal hot spots at the site. When they tried to vent the reactors shortly after the tsunami, they were venting a vessel already "dry." Without much steam, the radioactive gasses and particles carried in those gases would be depressurized at the stack. It makes sense that the bottom of the stack would be a hot spot... without the steam vapors to provide "lift" the particles just settled to the bottom of the stack. Normal venting at a nuclear plant would also have a ventilation system air flow for lift and dilution... The ventilation systems of the destroyed plants at Fukushima didn't work during the accident (no power).

I never dreamed that I would hear the words "cold shutdown" and "in a year" connected. What does that mean? It means that there is water boiling somewhere in the structures... and probably(uncontrolled)nuclear fission happening somewhere. The first steps they are taking is to restore cooling systems to the 4 affected spent fuel pools and 3 reactors. Assuming that the pools will hold water to submerge the fuel and that the dump enough boron into the pool, that should keep the pools in cold shutdown. The biggest uncertainties is the water tight integrity of the pools and condition of the damaged fuel... And the structural integrity of the reactor buildings. The reactors are a different story. U1-3 have reactor vessels that are probably damaged. The cores have melted down into an unknown configuration and location. The containments are also damaged, so flooding the containment is not a current option. Therefore, just installing a cooling system on the U1-3 reactors is unlikely to do much. You still have to prevent a fissioning of the fuel in its current configuration, submerge the fuel, and cool the water. First, I think you have to locate the fuel. If it is still in the reactor or drywell, I would be thinking of how to isolate the drywell from the torus and flooding the drywell. If the fuel is in the reactor building basement or subsoil, I think you consider building a concrete dam around the site to bedrock (and flooding it). I don't see how restoring the reactor cooling systems add value, but maybe I am wrong. We don't get much info out of Japan. I seriously question how well the Jaanese government is doing in keeping their public informed of the dangers. I don't think withholding information helps avoid panic... It just reduces trust.

It is a very bad situation that can get worse. The worst case scenario would be the eventual evacuation of Japan.

[slackmaster]

34. I think there's some space in New Jersey where the Japanese could resettle

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Oh wait... never mind...

it's all ok really... they will come soon and tell you why this should be ignored for (insert reason here)

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. Nothing to see here. Please move along.

:( It was always as bad as you said it was. Unfortunately.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I'll revise that... WORST.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Sad, but true. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. And I do not expect people to say sorry, we were wrong either.

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Of course not. They never do,

but they were VERY, VERY wrong. What REALLY pisses me off about that is how YOU were demonized for speaking the truth as you saw it...which, in hindsight, was close to correct...because it's WORSE than you thought it would be and you said it would be BAD. Where are they now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I am still attacked and demonized for "making stuff up."

No, I am not kidding... Even when... I have been pretty correct about many of the trends... At this point it has to be willful and like junior high... They bully for the same exact reasons. These days I removed all the iggy list...gives cover and just alert them...

[PCIntern]

37. Dontcha hate when that happens...?

Remember how they showed up on the site like locusts...I'll never ever forget/forgive the stone house/banana theories bandied about here.

then they left as though they never existed...weird.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Yep and some of us still have bruises from saith banannas

and stone counters!

:hi:

Careful where you leave them banana peels please.

[divvy]

49. I see a darker possibility

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Somewhere in the above thread is a link to a Tepco document which details their re-racking plan for spent fuel and an estimate in tons that is currently on site.

There is more than enough spent fuel on site to contaminate the entire Island of Japan. Those reactors and spent fuel pools will not take care of themselves. They will need human hands on valves and switchgear. The worst-case risk will most likely be due to an uninhabitable facility. There are "hot-spots" of radiation that measure 10S which is enough to kill within seconds.

Link here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43982727/ns/world_news-asia... /

I was told that if a crane pulled one bundle of fuel out of the water in the spent fuel pool, everyone on the refuel floor would have received a lethal dose of radiation by the time the bundle broke the surface of the water. Obviously, there were designs to prevent that. I don't know if this is true or not, but I never had any reason to doubt it. Now, imagine these bundles uncovered like in U4 or blown far and wide like U1-3. I would be shocked if there weren't lethal hot spots at the site. When they tried to vent the reactors shortly after the tsunami, they were venting a vessel already "dry." Without much steam, the radioactive gasses and particles carried in those gases would be depressurized at the stack. It makes sense that the bottom of the stack would be a hot spot... without the steam vapors to provide "lift" the particles just settled to the bottom of the stack. Normal venting at a nuclear plant would also have a ventilation system air flow for lift and dilution... The ventilation systems of the destroyed plants at Fukushima didn't work during the accident (no power).

I never dreamed that I would hear the words "cold shutdown" and "in a year" connected. What does that mean? It means that there is water boiling somewhere in the structures... and probably(uncontrolled)nuclear fission happening somewhere. The first steps they are taking is to restore cooling systems to the 4 affected spent fuel pools and 3 reactors. Assuming that the pools will hold water to submerge the fuel and that the dump enough boron into the pool, that should keep the pools in cold shutdown. The biggest uncertainties is the water tight integrity of the pools and condition of the damaged fuel... And the structural integrity of the reactor buildings. The reactors are a different story. U1-3 have reactor vessels that are probably damaged. The cores have melted down into an unknown configuration and location. The containments are also damaged, so flooding the containment is not a current option. Therefore, just installing a cooling system on the U1-3 reactors is unlikely to do much. You still have to prevent a fissioning of the fuel in its current configuration, submerge the fuel, and cool the water. First, I think you have to locate the fuel. If it is still in the reactor or drywell, I would be thinking of how to isolate the drywell from the torus and flooding the drywell. If the fuel is in the reactor building basement or subsoil, I think you consider building a concrete dam around the site to bedrock (and flooding it). I don't see how restoring the reactor cooling systems add value, but maybe I am wrong. We don't get much info out of Japan. I seriously question how well the Jaanese government is doing in keeping their public informed of the dangers. I don't think withholding information helps avoid panic... It just reduces trust.

It is a very bad situation that can get worse. The worst case scenario would be the eventual (total) evacuation of Japan.

[PearliePoo2]

50. Thanks for a look at how it really is. nt.

[malaise]

30. LOL

:applause:

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. K&R

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. HOLY CRAP! Kodama: "Fukushima was that of 20 Hiroshima-sized atom bombs"

Fukushima was that of 20 Hiroshima-sized atom bombs:

“What is more frightening is that whereas the radiation from a nuclear bomb will decrease to one-thousandth in one year, the radiation from a nuclear power plant will only decrease to one-tenth.

“In other words, we should recognise from the start that just like Chernobyl, Fukushima I Nuclear Plant has released radioactive materials equivalent in the amount to tens of nuclear bombs, and the resulting contamination is far worse than the contamination by a nuclear bomb.”

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/03/fukushima-disaster-exposed-far-worse-than-a-nuclear-bomb/


This is even worse than we thought and we always knew this was a huge disaster, but it's a MAJOR CATASTROPHE of astronomical proportions and NO ONE is talking about it!

[robdogbucky]

32. Has anyone seen any results of the aerial survey the Washington

state dept. of health began to monitor radiation in Puget Sound that began on July 12, 2011?

I know they threatened to keep that data secret as it was being done with Homeland Security money or something like that.

Isn't it strange that in doing such a project they would keep the results secret?

Has anyone heard anything? I can't find anything on the web about it now.



Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. You can monitor that at the link, I think:

http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/rep/aerial.htm

[sce56]

38. Here is a case of " Close the barn door after the horse has bolted "

What is a radiological or radiation baseline and why is it needed?

A radiation baseline tells us how much background radiation is currently found in an area. This baseline would be used to compare against measurements taken after a radiation emergency occurs. It helps state and local officials quickly determine where potential health effects may exist and to warn people in the affected area.

After the explosions in the reactors the level of radiation monitored on the West Coast went up so I heard they just re-calibrated the instruments!

http://fairewinds.com/content/lethal-levels-radiation-fukushima-what-are-implications

[drokhole]

41. "It comes down in rain."

This is an excerpt from the phenomenal book JFK and the Unspeakable by James Douglass. Here, Kennedy is moving toward the idea of a ban on above-ground nuclear testing:


One afternoon in his office, he was talking with his science adviser, Jerome Wiesner, about the contamination from the U.S. and Soviet nuclear testing. While rain fell outside the White House windows, Kennedy asked Wiesner how nuclear fallout returned to the earth from the atmosphere.

"It comes down in rain," Wiesner said.

The president turned around. He looked out the windows at the rain falling in the White House's Rose Garden.

"You mean there might be radioactive contamination in that rain out there right now?" he said.

"Possibly," Wiesner said.

Wiesner left the office. Kennedy sat in silence for several minutes, looking at the rain falling in the garden. His appointments secretary Kenny O'Donnell came and went quietly. O'Donnell had never seen Kennedy so depressed.

[unkachuck]

43. wow....

"The reading of 10 sieverts of radiation per hour outside the damaged reactor buildings was the highest level the equipment used could have detected, meaning the lethality of the contamination was off the scale;..."

"...meaning the lethality of the contamination was off the scale;..."

....what's Washintons' response and advice to us about this? Is this as serious as having a code-red terrorist alert? Should we be staying indoors and hiding in our lead-lined cardboard boxes? Should we be duct-taping our windows? Or are we all to just die mysteriously from unknown cancers and disease thereby decreasing the surplus entitlement population?

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. No, because you're not in the Fukushima complex

Here's the report:

The utility known as Tepco said yesterday it detected 5 sieverts of radiation per hour in the No. 1 reactor building. On Aug. 1 in another area it recorded radiation of 10 sieverts per hour, enough to kill a person "within a few weeks" after a single exposure, according to the World Nuclear Association.

Radiation has impeded attempts to replace cooling systems to bring three melted reactors and four damaged spent fuel ponds under control after a tsunami on March 11 crippled the plant. The latest reading was taken on the second floor of the No. 1 reactor building and will stop workers entering the area.

"This does emphasize what care has to be taken," Richard Wakeford, a visiting professor of epidemiology at the University of Manchester's Dalton Nuclear Institute in England, said in a telephone interview. "They have to put robots into those areas where they might expect high radiation levels. It's no real substitute for human access."

The 10 sieverts of radiation detected on Aug. 1 outside reactor buildings was the highest the Geiger counters used were capable of reading, indicating the level could have been higher, Junichi Matsumoto, a general manager at the utility, said at a press conference.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/08/01/bloomberg1376-LPB36U6TTDS401-6VN416FKFL289S1RILBCOPEGKG.DTL#ixzz1U9E0tZjC

It means the cleanup operation is going to be even more difficult than they thought. There will be ongoing concerns about groundwater and seawater contamination too:

"If nuclear fuels melted through containment chambers, Tepco will find even higher radiation readings after water in building basements is removed," said Tetsuo Ito, the head of the Atomic Energy Research Institute at Kinki University.

“We need to monitor the cesium 134 level detected in seawater around the plant,” Tetsuo Ito, the head of the Atomic Energy Research Institute at Kinki University in central Japan, said by phone today. “The increase could be from seawater churned by swells from the recent typhoon, but it’s possible that contaminated groundwater leaked from the plant.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-24/threat-to-japanese-food-chain-multiplies-as-cesium-contamination-spreads.html