Is the Penalty for the Crime of Kidnapping Too Severe?

[LAGC]

Just listening to CNN here at work about that Orthodox Jew who kidnapped and dismembered that 8-year-old boy in Brooklyn... they were saying he told police that he "freaked out" after he heard about the boy being reported missing on the news and everyone was searching for him. So he just decided to kill him, maybe because he was afraid of being charged with kidnapping for leading the boy away?

Sometimes I wonder if maybe the penalty for kidnapping (in and of itself) isn't too severe in many places. I mean, like here in Idaho, if you kidnap for ransom (First Degree Kidnapping) you can be put to DEATH. That seems a bit extreme. I mean, if its just a kidnapping (even for ransom) and no one is harmed (no beatings, no torture, no sexual abuse, etc.), I don't see why the max penalty should be any worse than for Grand Theft (14 years) or Extortion. These 20-, 40-, 60-year, LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE or DEATH sentences for kidnapping in and of itself just seems a bit extreme. I can't help but wonder if more kidnappers wouldn't voluntarily release their victims alive if they didn't think they were already facing such a serious sentence anyway. I mean, what do they have to lose? If they're already going to be given a very long sentence, why not just permanently silence the victim from testifying against them by killing them? It's not like the marginal added penalty is going to be much worse.

Maybe a lighter potential sentence for the crime of kidnapping would cause some kidnappers to think twice about just letting their victims go, before committing any more serious felonies against them. (Not saying that would have necessarily worked on this guy, as his thinking skills were obviously in short supply, but it may have made him at least think twice about just letting the boy go.)

[MrDiaz]

1. Really???

Short Answer is NO, they are not too extreme, they should be worse. If they were worse then maybe the kidnappers would think twice before STEALING someone else's child? I think it is pretty ridiculous that you even think a lighter punishment would be better.

[TBMASE]

3. You're so right

[LAGC]

12. Well, consider this current case...

It doesn't sound like the guy snatched or "stole" the boy or anything, the boy seemed to willingly go with the man, even waited outside the dentist office with him until he was done (as cameras witnessed), before they went to his home.

It doesn't sound like he sexually assaulted the boy or anything, but he just got scared because he realized what he did might be considered kidnapping, bringing the boy to his house. Knowing the punishment for kidnapping is severe, he may have felt like murdering him was the only "safe" choice in the heat of the moment hearing all the news reports.

I'm not saying it would work for most kidnappings, but maybe some kidnappings the harm could be minimized.

[WinkyDink]

16. You are being bizarre. This child was lured. Google "James Bulger".

[LAGC]

20. I'm not sure how that case relates to this one.

The perpetrators in that case were only 10-years-old.

I'm talking more about adult kidnappers who tend to be more rational and more likely to weigh the potential punishments.

[MrDiaz]

29. If the punishments were more harsh

Maybe he wouldn't steal the kid in the first place. Your post disgust me.

[Maine-ah]

30. I wish I hadn't googled that.

[frylock]

40. really?! hasn't the death penalty proven that theory wrong?

last i checked we are still murdering the murderers. evidently tougher sentencing is not a deterrent.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Beg to differ with your opinion that there is "no harm".

As a victim of kidnapping, your existence is potentially threatened. Not only is your free access taken away, you're held against your will with no promise of release. Kidnapping often leads to other crimes such as battery and/or murder. Your person may be restricted by being tied up/bound and gagged, blindfolded. You are terrified by silence, by your kidnapper's words. You may be sexually assaulted by your assailant.

Ask Patty Hearst if she felt that she wasn't harmed or Elizabeth Smart or Jacee Dugard.

[EOTE]

7. The OP covers many of the issues you address.

The OP specifically states that he/she is referring to kidnapping in itself, so battery, murder and sexual assault would not apply.

I think the OP makes a pretty damned good point. It has nothing to do with becoming more "soft" on kidnappers, it's about reducing the likelihood of a kidnapping victim also becoming a murder victim.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. There's the psychic injury to the victim upon which the punishment is based.

Even when another crime is not connected to kidnapping, the victim suffers. Being isolated, prevented from leaving, perhaps being taunted, physically restrained, being afraid of the kidnapper and what might happen -- all are injurious and often cause PTSD in victims.

[EOTE]

24. No doubt that is true.

However, I'd take some temporary suffering over permanent death any day.

[CBGLuthier]

4. I think the SC outlawed DP for kidnapping

There was a case a few years ago and as far as crimes against individuals they ruled no DP without death of the victim.

It was the LA child rape law.

[WinkyDink]

5. Excuse me, but WHAT? You're taking at face value the words of an insane person???

[Orrex]

6. I think that the kidnapper should henceforth have to pay double at parking meters, but that's it.

[Rebubula]

8. Well...

...then we should lessen Rape as well. Perhaps no more women would be murdered after rape if the rapist knew he would only go away to a county lockup for a weekend.


What an awesome idea!





:eyes:

[rucky]

9. You're not a parent, are you.

[DainBramaged]

11. I wonder often why criminals (on the DU) are wondered about so often

and why someone who KILLED A LITTLE BOY should be the reason the penalties for kidnapping should be reduced so that the next little boy killer won't become a little boy killer. It's just a little kidnapping.......


You have got to be kidding me.........

[LAGC]

13. I just think we lock too many people up for way too long for stupid shit.

I'm not just talking about kidnapping here...

[Rebubula]

14. I agree....

...we DO lock too many people for stupid shit.



However, Kidnapping is NOT Stupid shit. You may have a point (about incarceration), but using something as psychologically damaging as kidnapping is not a good way to prove it.


Plus..and more to the point....that had nothing to do with the OP....which was rather short sighted.

[DainBramaged]

15. Kidnapping is never stupid shit

there isn't a facepalm big enough...........

[LAGC]

19. Well, consider Sweden.

Their penalty for kidnapping (with no other crime being committed) is only 1 to 10 years.

That's still plenty of a deterrent, but is much more reasonable than many of our U.S. state codes.

I think we should emulate many European countries' criminal sentencing guidelines in general, as they are much more sane than the U.S. "lock them up forever and through away the key" mentality.

[DainBramaged]

21. I think this is bullshit

your defense of kidnapping is bullshit, and kidnapping rarely ends happily.


If you think this is a way for you to justify kidnapping, something is very very wrong.


Don't reply I'm done here. this is sick.

[Diclotican]

22. LAGC

LAGC

One of the reasons, that kidnapping is not a great crime in Sweden, is becouse it verry seldom happend.. The few times it DOES happend, it are all over the news, even here in Norway.. So it do happends, and then it are all over the news, becouse it is more or less unhard off...
The same with attac of a police officer or two, as happended a few years back, when a bank robbery got sour, and the robbers was killing a police officer.. It was a bloody mess, but all police in 3 country's was there to hunt the robbers down.. And the news was allways following what happend, all over the place and in the end, the robbers, was arrested, and away to prisons they goo.. They might as wel be inside the prison even today..

Diclotican

[LAGC]

23. That's exactly my point! Thank you!

Crime (in general) is much less of an problem in most European countries, even though the penalties aren't nearly as severe as many of those here.

Obviously, having a more sensible penalty for kidnapping hasn't led to a rash of kidnappings or anything in Sweden.

I just think people tend to look at crime and punishment emotionally too often and don't think logically about how we can best minimize overall harm.

Sometimes a more libertarian approach to crime makes more sense than just locking people up for the better part of their lives (except for murder or sex offenses).

[Diclotican]

35. LAGC

LAGC

Crimes is a "problem" in many europeans country too.. As it is everywhere it looks like this days.. But the way of doing with the crimes is maybe different from US to most European nations this days.. The whole idea is still, to make criminals, better persons, who can understand what they have been doing wrong, and make the person in a prison a better person, who are not to do a crime again.. Even tho many who have been into prison, are repete offender many times over, most of them, understand, and would shoose not to do it again, if the posibility are there.. Of course we also have a fair system, where needy can get help, (for the most part) when in need.. In many european country, a public founded wel-fare system are a must, and when in need, you can get help from that system..

Sensible penalty for them who breake the law, is the way to do. Even in large criminal cases, like kidnapping, and other criminal acts.. For the most part, it works wel, even tho in a few cases, tha law is little to "gentle" for the criminal, than the pepole on the street want it to be.. Even a murderer, can get out in 8-10 years time, even if the murder have been a grusome one.. But they CAN be keept under survivance for as long as needed, so in theory, you can be keept under control, for the rest of your natural life..

The consept of just trowing criminals, behind bars for years and years it very typical american I would say.. And as NGC have shown in their "hard-time" documentaries, many who are in prison, should never been there, rather in a mental hospital and be given the profesional help they need to get wel.. To many prisoners, its look like, are peopole with mental problems..

And then we have the "gang-factories" in the US prison system.. Where you might start out just as an criminal, but end up in a gang becouse of protection and powerplay inside the prison.. To me, as a forreigner, it looks like the gangs own the prisons on the inside, even tho the gates is protected by police..

Diclotican

[WinkyDink]

17. "JUST"? You classify kidnapping as "stupid s***"????? Maybe it should happen to you.

See if you change your asinine tune.

[Bragi]

33. What an ignorant remark

Is that supposed to constitute debate?

[WatsonT]

37. The kind of person who would casually murder a child to get out of trouble *should* be locked up

That's a great example of why we build jails.

[H2O Man]

18. yikes

[Bragi]

25. Potential harsh sentences also make juries acquit

If the prosecution had taken the death penalty off the table with the Susan Anthony case, I suspect the jury might not have been quite so demanding about what constituted reasonable doubt.

In general, I think the inclination of US prosecutors to seek the death penalty and other harsh sentences makes juries more inclined to have reasonable doubt.

I'm not sure this reluctance is a bad thing. It can make the real standard of evidence really high in serious cases.

It presents a dilemma, though, for the vengeful, law-and-order, pro-harsh punishment crowd.

[WinkyDink]

27. You have no supporting evidence for this opinion.

[Bragi]

32. Snarky response deleted

Your point is stupid, so I'll take a pass on discussion.

[mrcheerful]

26. When I was 10 or 11 I told mom at 8am that I was going to ride my bike around the neighbor hood

and ended up at the widows house down the road, her son was my best friend since grade K. We got playing cards, lost track of time until we noticed it was getting dark. I had not checked in with mom since leaving the house so when I arrived at home mom, dad and the police informed me that I was in very deep trouble because they couldn't find me. Now if this would have happened today I can only imagine how they would have reacted. This is what our fear of predators produced, I'm sorry but look at how fast the posts went from what is fact to speculations about what was the guys intentions were. We only know the end result and what the guy says happened after the child was reported missing. We are so conditioned by shows like "To Catch a Predator" to over react and prejudge peoples intentions that I'm surprised that there haven't been more crimes like this one. I'm saddened by what happened to the child but on the other hand I can see how an unstable mind would react to the situation and the fears that had to have gone thru his mind.

[WinkyDink]

28. An "unstable mind, " though, would have thought, "Oh, there is no death penalty. I'll just let him

go now, after 12 hours! No harm, no foul!"

I don't THINK so.

[mrcheerful]

31. Ah no because most unstable minds also suffer from paranoia that tends to pit

them against the world. A rational mind would be more likely to reason no harm no foul then an unstable mind would, that is why they are called unstable. You are over looking the fact that unstable minds are stigmatized in society which the unstable minds know all to well.

[Bragi]

34. Any evidence for that opinion? /nt

[mrcheerful]

38. Who me or the one I posted to? Mine comes from years of therapy

with unstable minds, I was diagnosed as bi-polar and saw first hand how unstable minds were stigmatized by police, courts and people I had around me.

[Bragi]

39. Not you, the one above you /nt

[WatsonT]

36. I don't think the penalty would have affected a person such as this

normal people don't kidnap.

They especially don't murder because that's simply the easiest way out.