White Male Privilge: Most people don't "get it"

[Taverner]

And by "get it" I mean notice and realize that our society favors white people, and especially white men.

I work in Oakland. There are a lot of African Americans here in this city. The building I work in is highly secured: in fact there is a security guard at the bottom floor.

I am white. I never have to show my badge to get in the building. Half the time its all wrapped around my wallet (don't ask) and showing the blank side. Black employees, however, always show their badge. When they don't, they get asked to. I never see white people getting pulled aside.

That is just one example.

It extends to everything, from parking spaces to restaurants. I have seen groups of whtie people who arrived after black people getting priority seating. They also get seated first. Usually the hostess will seat the black people in the back, and the white and non-black people near the front.

This is in 'liberal' Oakland, a town which I really do feel is more liberal than most.

If I can take notice of this just after a few weeks, just imagine what goes on behind closed doors.

Let me add that elevators are an interesting experience. I've seen elevators with white people never trying to hold the door if a black employee wants in, but if the elevator has black people, they will go out of their way to let a white person in.

Again, I don't think this is conscious racism. This isn't people trying to show privilege to whites. This is subconscious, but that doesn't make it any more or less real.

So the next time you hear about "White Male Privilege" don't roll your eyes. It exists.

[seabeyond]

1. as a white person i recognize it. as a woman i see it. thank you, for acknowledging it.

this seems to be very hard for people to own. it is not pointing the finger at the white male. it is a recognition. my boys and i have talked about this so many years. and my oldest says, i am not racist, so why am i being blamed. i told him, it is not a matter of blame. just know it is there. see it when it happens. use it to understand, the hurt, frustration of others that it impacts. have compassions.

it is all of our reality

good post tav

[LoZoccolo]

2. I see white privilge in the Fire Dog Lake-style professional left who want to primary

and/or defeat Obama despite his higher popularity amongst non-white voters. Obviously they are not listening to why he is more popular with people other than upper-middle class white progressives.

[Taverner]

27. I don't know if that's the case

Not saying it isn't, but not agreeing either

The problem is that the system is rigged. The one realization that I have learned during the Obama Admin is that nothing can be done. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

Time to throw in the towel - if we can't get the most progressive president we've had since Carter to fix glaring problems that everyone agrees on (say, corporate influence of elections) then nothing will ever change.

[sudopod]

37. Unsubtle, try harder.

I believe in you.

[HankyDubs]

56. a hilariously silly comment

[alarimer]

67. Bullshit

I want to primary so him so he WILL KEEP SOME OF HIS FUCKING CAMPAIGN PROMISES.

Blind support of anyone is plain ignorance.

[Dems2002]

74. Disagree with comparison

Really? You think the fdl folks are "limousine liberals"? If the fdl folks were going on endlessly about social issues while ignoring economic concerns or catering to the free trade agreement/pro corporate right than I think you'd have more of a point. But since they do mostly the opposite I just think what you're saying is a desire to make an analogy against a group you don't like that doesn't hold water.

[Vanje]

86. What color of privilege do you see....

in Tavis Smiley's and Cornel West's criticisms of Obama?

[geardaddy]

3. Completely agree.

Good post.

[Love Bug]

4. Whenever I point that out to some people I get whining

The whining I hear is stuff in the order of "But immigrants get everything handed to them and I get nothing" yadda, yadda, which I guess makes WMP okay, then. :eyes:

[Atman]

5. Last summer, driving through Hartford, we encountered a road block.

We approached the check point and without so much as a second glance we were waved through. In the oncoming lane, a black guy in a van was being flagged to pull over. He started shouting at the cops (okay, mistake there) and pointing at me. "What the hell did I do? Why is that guy getting waved through?" He had a totally valid point. Why did I get a pass, but he didn't?

.

[Mendocino]

78. Same sort of thing for me.

We were driving across Hoover Dam last year. The security guys looked at us, and waived us by. Everybody that they had pulled over were non-white, except a van full of young "freakish" types.

[Art_from_Ark]

81. Maybe the cops were looking for a black suspect

and you didn't fit the description?

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. I'm a white male. I own a business.

If I bid on a government contract against woman-owned business and another vendor which is a minority-owned business, everything else being equal, I'll be in third place.

That's just the way it is. I don't really think it's wrong (especially not for minority owned businesses), but if you're telling me that the reason for the policy is because white people don't hold elevator doors...

That privilege (to the degree that it exists) is offset by legal, institutionalized and accepted discrimination. It's not at all subconscious, invisible or hard to detect.

[seabeyond]

7. and in a private company if a white man, woman or minority were to bid, as likely the white man

would get it even if his bid was much higher than the other two. gotta finish the story. that is the inherent privilege

[Taverner]

10. Add to it that Affirmative Action policies are not "free gifts"

I've seen Affirmative Action hires fired just as easily as White hires, when they screw up.

But WMP is not why Affirmative Action policies are there. That goes beyond WMP and into the ins and outs of financial privilege.

[JonLP24]

23. I'd add it is about opportunity

Wise explains it much better than I could.

n terms of intent, affirmative action is nothing like old-fashioned or ongoing discrimination against people of color. Discrimination against so-called racial minorities has always been predicated on the belief that whites were more capable than people of color in terms of their abilities, and more deserving of consideration with regard to their rights and place in the nation. So when employers have refused to hire blacks, or have limited them to lower-level positions, this they have done because they view them as being less capable or deserving than whites–as less desirable employees. Likewise, racial profiling is based on pejorative assumptions about black and brown criminality and character. Housing discrimination is rooted in assumptions about folks of color being less desirable as neighbors or tenants.

Affirmative action, on the other hand, does not presume in the reverse that whites are inferior to people of color, or less desirable as workers, students or contractors. In fact, it presumes nothing at all about white abilities, relative to people of color. It merely presumes that whites have been afforded more-than-equal, extra opportunity relative to people of color, and that this arrangement has skewed the opportunity structure for jobs, college slots and contracts. Affirmative action is not predicated on any assumptions about whites, as whites, in terms of our humanity, decency, intelligence or abilities. It is based solely on assumptions about what being white has meant in the larger social structure. It casts judgment upon the social order and its results, not people per se. Although one is free to disagree with the sociological judgment being rendered in this case — that the social structure has produced disparities that require a response — it is intellectually dishonest and vulgar to compare this presumption about the social structure to the presumption that black people are biologically, culturally or behaviorally inferior to whites.

Additionally, discrimination against people of color has always had the intent of creating and protecting a system of inequality, and maintaining unearned white advantage. Affirmative action does not seek to create a system of unearned black and brown advantage, but merely to shrink unearned white advantage. In other words, unless one presumes there is no difference between policies that maximize inequality and those that seek to minimize it, it is impossible to compare affirmative action to discrimination against people of color, in the past or present.

Affirmative Action vs. Old-School Discrimination: Differences in Impact and Outcome

In terms of impact, affirmative action and discrimination against people of color are completely different. Discrimination against people of color, historically and today, deprives those people of color of the right to equal consideration for various opportunities on equitable terms. While some may think affirmative action does the same thing to whites, in fact this is untrue. Affirmative action programs only deprive whites, in effect, of the ability to continue banking our extra consideration, and the credentials and advantages we have accumulated under a system of unfairness, which afforded us more-than-equal opportunities. There is no moral entitlement to the use of such advantages, since they have not come about in a free and fair competition. History — and ongoing racial bias against people of color — have served as “thumbs on the scale” for whites, so to speak. Or even more so, as the equivalent of a “Warp Speed” button on a video game. Merely removing one’s finger from the warp speed button cannot address the head start accumulated over many generations, nor the mentality that developed as a justification for that head start: a mentality that has sought to rationalize and legitimize the resulting inequities passed down through the generations. So affirmative action is tantamount to hitting a warp speed button for people of color, in an attempt to even out those unearned head starts, and allow everyone to compete on as level a playing field as possible. To not do so would be to cement the head start that has been obtained by whites, and especially white men, in the economic and educational realms. It would be like having an 8-lap relay race, in which one runner has had a 5-lap head start, and instead of placing the second runner at the same point as the first, so as to see who really is faster, we were to merely proclaim the race fair and implore the runner who had been held back to “run faster” and try harder, fairness be damned.

http://www.timwise.org/2010/10/affirmative-action-for-dummies-explaining-the-difference-between-oppression-and-opportunity/

[Taverner]

25. Yes. What you said.

[bemildred]

15. Right, you are a member of a privileged class, the law attempts - in part - to correct that. nt

[Taverner]

18. Some laws attempt to correct that, and other laws attempt to enforce it nt

[bemildred]

21. Indeed. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. I'm fine with that.

But that intrusive and discriminatory corrective action should be periodically evaluated against the problem which is being corrected.

If the magnitude of racial bias in Obama's america is still severe enough to justify affirmative action, some attempt to measure it is merited. If the problem of bias against women is still severe enough to justify grants and scholarships just for women, then some attempt to reconcile the fact that women are 25% more likely to graduate high school, 50% more likely to graduate college and 30% less likely to be unemployed is in order.

[bemildred]

29. And I'm OK with that.

The desired end state is one where race or gender etc. matter about as much as hair color or foot size, as a matter of law and a matter of custom, so the exceptional treatment of white males, good or bad, is a thing to be done away with.

In the meantime, I'm an older white male with the "right" sort of background, and it's always been clear to me since I became aware of it that that was on the whole a privileged position. I don't really like that, I think my life would be better in a world where discrimination is not tolerated, where we all have the same rights and obligations, as far as biology permits, so I do not object to reasonable attempts to do something about it, but not because I think they ought be permanent or immune from modification as social evolution permits.

It is certainly true that we have come a long way since I was a kid, in some respects, but it is also true that we are far from done with it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. +1 n/t

[MrScorpio]

8. It's the nature of White Privilege to have the luxury of not seeing it, if you're white

Thanks for being consciously aware.

[yardwork]

92. Would you say the same about straight privilege?

[Iggo]

9. I'm only half-white, but I look white.

I know it exists.

[Cali_Democrat]

11. Good post.

I see exactly what you see. It's a shame that some people just don't get it.

[LynneSin]

12. I would modify that to White Straight Male

Because White Gay Males are in the same boat with the rest of us

[Taverner]

14. This is true - however there is no gay male dress code

And pink triangles have been out of fashion for a while

[FreeState]

79. There is

It's much like the sexism of body image women have to put up with, the same is true for most gay males.

[unblock]

13. what makes it harder to "get", especially for white males, is it often coincides with actual work

many times while male privilege isn't just oh look, you're white, you're male, here, have a free newspaper (anyone remember that "white like me" eddie murphy skit from saturday night live ages ago? :rofl: )

far more often the most meaningful of while male privilege happens after people have worked hard. the white male gets an edge, but doesn't see it because it wasn't just handed to them, they worked for it. so they attribute their success to their hard work rather than to the edge they got.

very few people can work hard enough to get into a good college, work hard enough to graduate, work hard to land a good job, work hard to impress their superiors, and eventually get several promotions and raises and then look back and attribute any of it to simply whiteness and maleness. it's undeniable that hard work was involved, and yet it's also often undeniable that a black and/or woman who tried to go through EXACTLY the same path would have had to work harder and would have faced more obstacles and quite probably have gotten derailed.

personally, i can't point to anything i got or achieved in my life that i can say was due to me being white or male. it certainly feels like no one gave me anything and i had to work hard for everything i have. but statistically, few women and few blacks have risen to my level in terms of "station in life" (income, house value, authority at work). so objectively, i have to acknowledge that somehow, being white and male helped me, even if i was never aware of exactly how.

[seabeyond]

22. the condescending tone from the sales person to the woman. the sales clerk watching

the black person walking thru the store.

i think first you have to be aware or acknowledge, before you will be able to see.

sometime, watch the difference in a salesperson speak to a woman complaining about product or trying to buy a product. i tell my husband, you go talk to the guys about breaking the window while pulling it out, cause regardless of how nicely i say it, i am a bitch. whereas husband says something and just neutral conversation for information.

he didnt notice until i pointed it out years ago, now he sees it all the time.

i ask a question and hte man looks over me and gives answer to hubby.

it is all over the place.

automatic repsect if male and white.

[unblock]

39. interestingly, i'm completely inept at getting a discount from vendors or extra work from suppliers

but mrs. unblock is brilliant at it.

it seems no matter what i say or how i say it, the vendor or the supplier somehow detects that if they stonewall i'll eventually give up, and i guess they're right because i can be on the phone for more than an hour and get absolutely nowhere.

mrs. unblock, on the other hand, is always getting restaurants to take something off the check, merchants to knock another 15% off, or contractors who work on our house to redo something they didn't do to her standards the first time.

at work, i'm a skilled negotiator, but i'm useless at it at home, lol!




also, it's often impossible to tease out the many forms of subtle discrimination, some of which may work in your favor and some of which may not. i'm white and male, but also short and jewish. so i have advantages that are unfair, but also disadvantages that are also unfair. and don't think heightism isn't significant, it's VERY significant, perhaps all the more so there's little awareness of it as an issue. there's no short people's lobby or congressional short people's caucus.

[seabeyond]

46. you are right of course

"also, it's often impossible to tease out the many forms of subtle discrimination, some of which may work in your favor and some of which may not. i'm white and male, but also short and jewish. so i have advantages that are unfair, but also disadvantages that are also unfair. and don't think heightism isn't significant, it's VERY significant, perhaps all the more so there's little awareness of it as an issue. there's no short people's lobby or congressional short people's caucus."

heightism is right there.

i can think of advantages i have as a woman, like getting out of tickets, but then like i told my sons the other day, en too have ways. my husband is so very nice and respectful, cops dont give him a ticket. and brother, manly man and the cops bond with him and dont give tickets.

that is why it is never a guilt and i dont blow it up to huge. but it is a reality i want my boys to recognize, and be compassionate about in understanding

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. Try being a guy wearing suspenders inquiring about a sewing machine.

Or being a stay at home dad talking to teachers.

If the condescension that black person purchasing a car is comparable to that experience, I'm empathetic.

My problem is that corrective action should help to solve the problem and not create more of it.

If the problem is that minority owned businesses face barriers to grow their business, I'm in favor of the corrective actions. If the problem is rude sales clerks then I don't think that creating systems that promote resentment are the best solutions.

[seabeyond]

47. i would be all over you giving you the ultimate in privilege for being outside the mold.

but i hear what you are saying.

i recognize that.

i was in the store with oldest son talking about the different some product and a youngish woman said to me in commraderie and very condescending about males being clueless in the store. raised my hackles. i dont like reverse, dont want son to experience reverse, nor find a reason to justify using against women. i thought it horrible this woman taught son this, lol, even to her she was being funny

i told her, my husband kicks my ass in cooking and i am expecting the same from my son.

son and i talked about it afterward.

but i really think that is basically all people are saying

to recognize when we do this, placing people in roles because of gender, race, religion, whatever.

[lynne]

16. Looks to me like the problem is that Oakland is full of racists -

- I'm near D.C. and we don't have the problems you're talking about. Not in restaurants. Not in elevators. I've not had to show my badge at work so I can't compare that. I've been here many years and haven't seen the obvious, blatant racism that you're talking about in this area. And someone should fire that restaurant hostess.

"White Male Privilege" because Oakland is chock full of racists? I don't think so.

[Taverner]

17. Try and hail a cab while a black man tries on the other side of the street

You'll see what I mean

[el_bryanto]

19. It clearly exists

Consider non-verbal societal clues. Someone who has grown up in white society, knows instinctively how to sit and how to talk to give the message to other white people "I'm a serious and competent person." Someone who goes up in a different society or subculture doesn't necessarily know those signs.

I think white people resist the idea for a number of reasons, but one is that they feel it implies they don't deserve what they have. This was my initial response when first exposed to the idea a while back, I have to admit. They might take it as the sole explanation as opposed to part of the mix. I have my life style because I worked hard, did reasonably well in school, learned my job, caught a few lucky breaks, and because I'm white.

I don't know, past affirmative action programs, how you fix this problem though.

Bryant

[Taverner]

20. No idea how to fix it either

But acknowledging it exists has to be a first step...

[slackmaster]

52. The only proper "fix" would be to elevate non-white people to the same level of privilege

Taking privilege away from white males wouldn't solve anything. It would just remove an incentive to envy.

[Taverner]

61. This is why we absolutely have to keep Affirmative Action programs

Although it feels like it's barely a drop in the bucket

[eilen]

50. Isn't part of that social/economic class? nt

[hifiguy]

26. I am a middle aged white guy and I get it

because I come at life from a slightly different perspective. I know what it is like to be different because I am dx'd Aspergers. I've been banging my head against "neurotypical" privilege ever since graduating from law school. And I have gotten nowhere. And believe you me, simply being white and male counts for nothing in a neurotypically-privileged world.

[bemildred]

65. +1. nt

[KamaAina]

88. I can relate

for years I wondered why my white, male, hetero, Ivy League self was hanging around in lefty politics with all these oppressed people. Then a number of books by and about Autistic people came out, and I realized that I was one. So I, too, am oppressed.

[MrScorpio]

28. Here's a great video that everyone can share with those who aren't so sure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA

[JonLP24]

31. +1

Great video.

[Taverner]

32. Awesome vid!

Tim Wise is, well, wise...

[hfojvt]

64. except that after 40 minutes he says he's not gonna try to prove it

His little magic pill experiment makes me wonder about the opposite. How many black people are gonna take a magic pill that would make them white?

The other part is that, taking a pill would only give me black skin, it would not make me black. For example, I am about five or six inches taller than Harvey, but Harvey can out-jump me (although being twenty years younger may have helped him in that contest as well.) There are some benefits that come with athletic prowess that I am not getting with a mere change of skin color.

Also, that Wise actually postulates an "able bodied privilege" kinda shows how ridiculous it is. The opposite of under privileged is not over-privileged. In between there is a middle ground of normalcy. Imagine a kid who has to walk to school. Now imagine that on his route to school that there are three other boys who will try to beat the crap out of him every day. That kid is clearly under-privileged. But would you really say that all the other kids who walk to the same school without having bullies trying to beat the crap out of them, are over-privileged? I wouldn't. The disadvantage of that one kid does not confer some sort of undeserved benefits on everybody else. I would say that the privileged kids are the ones who are getting rides to school, although even that seems to be more of a norm at the local grade school than it was when I was a kid.

As for the invalidity of "naming" counter-examples like Oprah and Tiger, well in 2002 there were 161,500 black households with over $500,000 in assets and another 1.58 million with over $100,000 in assets. And on the other side, there are 16.6 million white non-hispanic households with less than $5,000 in assets that don't have squat for white privilege. That is 20.3% of all white non-hispanic households in that boat. The fact that an astounding 48.4% of black households and 44.2% of hispanic households and 28.7% of asian households are in the same boat, does not put a single dime into his white pocket.

[Taverner]

69. Check out his other vids if you want him to prove it

It's in a couple of them

Understanding White Privilege is more than just about money. It translates to how most people make others feel welcome, valued and treated.

I know a lot of successful black people too - in fact one area where I've seen many blacks become successful is the tech industry. But that still doesn't mean that there isn't white privilege. These same folks get pulled over more than I do (and I'm a notoriously bad driver) and they get stopped by security more than I do. They are used to it.

It's about more than just the income gap - it's about general attitudes in society. It's about how one behaves.

To cite an example that shows the full extent of white privilege, take a look at the BART police Mesherle case. Here was a black man, pinned to the ground and shot in the head. Most white people forgave Mesherle, while most Black people knew this was not just "oops I thought it was my taser." If Mesherle had done the same thing to a white kid, or god forbid a CEO, white people would have cried bloody murder. But because it was a black kid, people gave Officer Mesherle the benefit of the doubt.

[hfojvt]

82. yeah, I have seen his list

it's about posters of DR J and Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson too, apparently. Among other things.

I personally gave Mehserle the benefit of the doubt because I saw the look on his face after the shooting. It was a look that clearly said to me "oh fuck, what the hell did I just do?"

As for how white people would react. That hypothetical has been answered. The reaction here is pretty mild compared to the reaction over Grant's death. http://pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/long-beach-march-demands.html Seems to be generating a lot less national news too, although I cannot remember how much the M$M covered the Grant story.

[Bluerthanblue]

30. you speak the truth.

and I thank you for it.

[NNN0LHI]

33. Here let me tell you what goes on behind closed doors

I know some very wealthy people. I am not talking about McMansion type wealthy. I am talking about real mansion wealthy. The kind of wealth that has been passed down over generations.

Not one of these wealthy white people are racist or look down on blacks or any other minority. They only look down on people who have less wealth than they do. Skin color is immaterial to them.

If you are wealthy like they are your skin color will make absolutely no difference. They won't even notice it. If you are wealthy you will be these peoples best of friends. If you are beneath them financially you will be dirt under their feet regardless of your skin color.

Now don't me wrong here. They will in a New York minute use racism to drive a wedge between those of us who they consider are beneath them. They sure will. Without blinking an eye. And many of those people they use this wedge on will fall for it too unfortunately. That is why they keep using it.

This is just what I have noticed so just take it for what its worth.

Don

[hifiguy]

40. At that level I think you are correct

My best friend in law school was African-American, the son of a pro athlete who made a fortune in the real estate and movie businesses after injury ended his playing career. My friend, who I will call Tony (not his real name) was educated at prep schools. Graduated with highest honors from UCLA in three years and made it to Obama's (and my) law alma mater. Spoke four languages conversationally at 22, movie-star handsome, charming and polished and whip-smart to boot.

He once told me that I would have a far more difficult time with post-academic life than he would because I was not "one of them" and that he was. Tony told me that as someone who was obviously, even glaringly working class, I would have 2.5 strikes against me in every interview or interaction with bosses at prestige firms at the outset, whereas he would simply be given a once-over and recognized as unquestionably being a member of the upper class, which he certainly was and admitted to, and therefore entitled to treatment as an equal. He told me that his dad clued him into a key fact when he was a young man: when you have enough GREEN, all other colors are invisible.

Today Tony's a multi-millionaire partner at a huge and prestigious firm. In the last 20+ years I have only been able to hold one job for more than two years - $8/hour manager of a science-fiction bookstore.

Tony was right.

[AngryAmish]

63. They keep count, but so do I.

I'd never get a chance at a white shoe firm. Never even bothered. But I learned my trade and I am 5-0 against Ivy League lawyers (only way I know how to keep count).

[bemildred]

66. +1. nt

[hfojvt]

34. it totally exists

that's why sometimes as this white male rides his bike to his part-time janitor job, I yell out "I am king of the world!!!"

I just know that Oprah, Michelle Obama and Hallie Berry are totally jealous of my awesome Y chromosome and white epidermis, because they give me priveleges that they will never enjoy.

But I suppose I really should look closer to home instead of looking at Michael Jordan. That way I can lord it over the woman who heads the department I work for, or maybe the woman who is her second in command who dropped out of high school, but still got promoted to her position without even needing to apply. It was just handed to her. I guess being passed over 6 times is part of my male privilege.

[Taverner]

38. As Tim Wise said...Oprah is not competing with you

Oprah is competing with Bill Gates

[wellst0nev0ter]

41. Nah, He's Probably Jealous Of This Guy Too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1435734

[hfojvt]

70. what does competition have to do with anything?

And why should billionaires compete?

But clearly, if being white and male confers some kind of privilege, then it should be something that every white male has over every black female, otherwise it is clear that the privileges are not about whiteness or maleness. Or at least whatever privileges are granted to whites and males can easily be trumped by green privilege.

[JonLP24]

73. To expand what Taverner said

For the sake of argument say you make $30,000-$50,000 you're competing with people of color in that salary range for housing, loans, etc. White people make on average a much higher salary than black people, get approved for more loans, housing, and are less likely to be pulled over by police.

Darnell Dockett is a millionaire and one of the highest payed players for the Cardinals. Before I continue I should point out this is all from his POV and while I won't say he is incapable of lying, he is a very honest person, willing to speak his mind. He criticized Cardinals' management publicly when they traded Boldin and let Rolle & Dansby go. Also the police refused comment on this incident but stated he didn't receive a ticket.

Even as a millionaire I strongly believe he was harassed and racial profiled.

Tweets.

-I don't know why the police always messing w/me I'm never gonna let them search my car with out a search warrant! No matter what! about 3 hours ago via UberSocial

-Police sitting here waiting on back up cuz I told them YOU NOT SEARCHING MY CAR! PERIOD! & now I'm sitting here! Owell I aint got shit 2 do!

-There R 3police cars and they are talking! I don't see A search warrant they won't see inside this escalade! I got all day hope they don't!

-Police said "do you mind if we look around in your Vehicle?" I said I sure DO! He said "I'm gonna call back up" I said u wanna use my phone?

-I think they (POLICE) going to get a search warrant cuz they sitting here looking like fools waiting on something!

-These COPS really think I'm stupid they playing good cop bad cop! BOY STOOOOP! I'm not falling for that! NO SIR YOU WILL NOT LOOK IN MY CAR!

-This cop just ask me how tall R u & where R U from! I'm bout to ask him can I go across the street to POPEYS while we sitting here waiting!

-I been sitting here for a HOUR 1cop by the driver window, 2talking at the car! And the 1by the window being friendly! Like wtf?

-I asked the cop why he pulled me over he said I was speeding I said BULLSHIT! But give me the ticket that's when he asked to search my car!

-So you gonna lie and say I'm speeding then you wanna search my car! Get the F*ck ouutta here! Better go get a warrant *turns up radio*

-OK so now I think they letting me Go cop just brought my DL's and registration! Yeah I'm bout to be out this MOFO! about 1 hour ago via

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/06/darnell_dockett_will_never_let.php

I've been pulled over a few times and never had nothing remotely close to what happened here. I cannot think of any other reason for this level harassment except that it was due to his race.

[hfojvt]

80. boy did you pick the wrong guy on the wrong day

Here's this white guy driving home from work in Iowa. This cop flips a u-turn and chases after him right at the edge of town to give him a seatbelt ticket. Then he starts snapping questions at me about weapons. WTF. Next thing I am handcuffed by the side of the road and surrounded by cop cars and apparently a detective is there too, dude in plainclothes. Strange how that old white male privilege did not keep them from searching my car.

And averages don't do squat for people who are below the average, compared to other people who are above the average. As for competeting for housing and loans, I looked at about 8 houses in this town. Pretty sure my second choice would have been okay if I had suddenly gotten outbid. Nor do I believe that banks are regularly looking at 10 loan applications, but only have enough money to approve six of them. I don't believe there is that kind of competition.

We do compete for jobs, but the data do not show that the massive amounts of poor whites are always winning that battle.

[ZombieHorde]

35. Those are really interesting observations. nt

[N7Shepard]

42. As someone who started life as a white man and is now a white woman, it's completely obvious

[Taverner]

44. Very interesting...

What would you say is the biggest difference that you noticed?

[N7Shepard]

45. Probably it's the white men who don't work harder than anyone else, but get

ahead in life and think they worked harder than anyone else.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

48. Yes, that's interesting.

There was a travel writer, James Morris, who had a male to female sex change and wrote a book called "Conundrum".

I know you have lots of interesting observations.

As a white female, I feel that both white males and females of my generation, no matter how educated, have been tossed out of the economy because of age discrimination against baby boomers. Nobody gave a damn about my education and credentials, 11 years of college and three degrees including a Juris Doctor. Didn't matter a damn bit. Was a waste of time & thousands of dollars, from a career perspective.

[slackmaster]

53. Screw that noise. I work my tail off 50-55 hours per week now. I've been working for over 30 years.

I've earned every speck of privilege I have.

[N7Shepard]

55. I did that and got ahead faster as a male. Do the same thing as a female, don't get ahead as fast.

[slackmaster]

57. I believe you. I know there is systematic discrimination against women, and people of color.

Some states still allow women to be paid less than men as a matter of policy, for the same job.

(But that's not privilege for one group, it's really discrimination against other groups.)

[N7Shepard]

58. You're splitting hairs - but glad you got the overall point.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

83. I think people were actively impeding me at my work.

I know of one District Judge who lied to a judges' meeting that I was incompetent, and therefore hurt my employment. This particular judge is famous for being mean and hateful to ALL her underlings--clerks,bailiffs, prosecutors, process servers, court reporters. She once hit me in the head with a rolled up piece of paper, which is assault. :wow:

And she is now the elected District Attorney of Harris County, Texas. Pat Lykos. Which is a disgrace.

There are plenty of people who lie and backstab to impede other peoples' careers. I know.
I think it's competition. And plain nastiness. There were no doubt attorneys that spread lies about my competence just to be nasty when I did NOTHING to them, and I was certainly competent and overqualified.

I never had a mentor; it was all about competition. And when I proved I had superior education and credentials, they didn't think it was useful and didn't want to know about it. They wanted court reporters to be glorified secretaries, not truly educated professionals.

[Number23]

75. Wow. Fantastically interesting posts.

Very cool of you to share your experience in this area. I don't think too many could (intelligently) argue with you though I'm sure that some will try. :)

[xphile]

68. The definition of privilege is you're getting benefits that you did not earn. n/t

[slackmaster]

49. As someone who grew in a middle class family in a very affluent neighborhood, I have to say...

True privilege comes from wealth.

The petty perquisites that Taverner alleges here don't add up to a hill of beans compared to the lifetime of special consideration and breaks that people born into wealth and power enjoy.

I feel that I have earned most of the privileges I have.

[Taverner]

51. See Post #28

[Number23]

76. I'm always fascinated by the obstinance of those who try to turn every conversation

about racism into one about class-ism.

If a dirt poor black accused a dirt poor white of raping his daughter, based on the legal history of this country, who has the greater chance of winning the case, even regardless of facts in evidence?

Why is the concept of racism so difficult for so many to accept? And in fact, America's long and painful history of RACISM is what has lead to so many issues of CLASS-ISM that so many whites try to act is the only issue!

Racism exists! It always has! This country was built on it! Suck it up and deal with it.

[Obamanaut]

54. Might you consider a complaint to the building security folks rather than to us? nt

[Taverner]

60. Sigh...once again, see post #28

Tim Wise puts this into words I cannot.

BTW, just so you know, you missed the point completely

[Obamanaut]

62. So, you showed them the video? And complained? If the point was so obscure

that readers miss it, then it was poorly stated.

You did complain to the security folks, didn't you? Unequal treatment, preferential treatment, biased treatment and all that.

Edited to add: sigh

[Taverner]

77. So...you're saying there is no such thing as White Male Privlege

Got it - No point talking to you then

[Obamanaut]

84. I am asking if you, being concerned or disturbed by what you witnessed, did

anything or said anything to correct this - other than type about it on an anonymous message board.

Typing will right most any wrong. Got it! Thanks.

[Taverner]

85. No - you're splitting hairs. Bye.

[Nye Bevan]

59. You said "white *male* privilege". So do white women get pulled aside at security?

And do people in your elevator hold the door for white men but not white women?

[Creideiki]

71. There's also straight privilege, regardless of race and sex

It exists just like WMP.

[Taverner]

72. Yes it does. I remember once a gay co-worker asked for time off for his kid's baseball game

And my manager was like "You have a kid? A family? But you're gay..."

Several months later, asks for time off again, the kid was choosing colleges and it was college road trip time. Same manager, same response.

[we can do it]

87. You Are Absolutely Right. Its Bad Here In Ohio

Its disgusting how people talk about Mexicans, too.

[KamaAina]

89. We're trying to get this message through to our staff

at a social justice nonprofit (!) elsewhere in the Bay Area. And yes, we've had lots of eye rolling, and worse. Even the staff who are Latina or Asian don't really want to talk about race!

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jtown1123]

91. I agree it exists but I think the examples you use aren't really reflective of the larger problem