Let's talk about Republicans.

[kentuck]

I really don't know how they can look at themselves in the mirror? Or how they can sleep at night?

Anybody that would throw Grandma out on the street and take away her health insurance - just so they can give a tax break to a billionaire - is lower than whale shit, and that is at the bottom of the ocean.

Anybody so unpatriotic that they would hold our government hostage to get these tax cuts is not worthy of being in "government". Would you ever marry a person that you hate? Republicans hate our government. It is something to be destroyed. It is something to be drowned in a bathtub.

But what should we think about people that would vote for these low-lifes? They call themselves conservatives because that somehow makes them feel legitimate and superior to the "liberals". The truth be known, they are in need of psychiatric help. How can they rationalize such absurd and unAmerican ideas?

These are not the type of people we want on our side. They deserve to be in an institution instead. There is no need to be nice to them. They hate Grandma. It's time to call them out.

[canetoad]

1. No, lets not

Sure, some may be the psychotic low lifes that you describe, but most are our neighbours, our workmates and our families.

You be as snide and dismissive as you like. You will soon have company in your misery. A better strategy is to engage, empathise and convert - if that's not above you.

[kentuck]

4. So they are only misguided?

Or is it that they just have a different opinion? Get under the tent, it's raining outside.

[canetoad]

6. Yes, a lot of them are

And if you were not so dismissive of your fellow humans, you may find that out.

Edit to add: I'm not made of icing sugar. I don't melt in the rain.

[kentuck]

7. How many have you converted?

Fifty-nine million of them voted for George W Bush. You are a compassionate soul this morning.

[canetoad]

11. Nowhere near 59 mill

But the few I have remain friends and enjoy mutual respect.

Now, how many have you converted?

[kentuck]

14. Not as successful as you...

Perhaps you can let us in on your secret techniques?

[TBF]

28. It is not that people need to be "converted" to vote for the less of two evils -

it is that people are NOT stupid and understand their day do day economic lives are not going to change no matter who is in office. And many did give a chance to Mr. Obama, they voted hoping he might be different. But of course he is not - he is also hand-picked by the money party.

If the democratic party doesn't get it's act together and start supporting the unions (rather than breaking them!) you all are going to experience Rick Perry first hand as your next president. And, believe me, you are not going to like him.

[kentuck]

30. Hear ye! Hear ye!

Who wants a Party that looks like the Republicans?

[annabanana]

10. (and besides. one side's as bad as the other, right?). . . .n/t

[canetoad]

12. You chose the path of irrelevance

Don't blame me when no-one understands your stupid, pseudo-cryptic reply.

[we can do it]

13. HAHAHAHAHA Right Convert Greedy, Non Thinking, Bigots

that will happen right after santa comes down the chimney.

[rhett o rick]

15. Tell them nicely that they need to be held accountable for the misery of millions of

Americans. They need to be held accountable for the disaster in Iraq. I could go on. Many hide behind the screen of being a nice neighbor and good religious, but turn around and vote to give our money to the rich and not the poor.

They need to be held accountable for their behaviors.

[themadstork]

21. Let's not do what. . . call them out?

You're not truly engaging if you're unwilling to call your neighbors on their BS, to hold them accountable. You're just pussyfooting around in the name of an insincere civility.

[FreeJoe]

36. Excellent response!

I live in the suburbs of Houston. About 80% of the people I know are Republicans. The overwhelming majority of them are wonderful people that truly want the best for the people of this world. They have different views on how to make the world a better place.

Many believe that individual charity is more effective than government safety nets. Many believe that wars of "liberation" help the people they are "liberating." Many believe that the drug war is helping keep people from ruining their lives with drugs. I don't, but I understand why they think the way they do. The world isn't simple. It isn't black and white. It should't be us vs them.

The amusing thing is that I spend a lot of my time trying convince them that we aren't out to destroy America. We aren't trying to ruin the family. We aren't trying to destroy the American worth ethic. Many of the Republicans I know have attitudes almost identical to the OP. Rather than try to understand and have rational discussions with people that they disagree with, they demonize their intentions and regard them as evil people. I associated that sort of closed-minded bitterness with Republicans until I came here on saw how prevalent it is with Democrats as well.

[kentuck]

37. Keep up the good work...

Since most Repubs never get sick, don't ever need Medicare or Social Security, or unemployment compensation, or food stamps, or any help from the government, I'm sure most of your "friends" are perfectly content with the way the present Republicans are representing them and would never disagree with them on any issue and can't wait to vote for them the next election? And those are your friends?

[FreeJoe]

38. Is your world really that BLACK and WHITE?

I don't think that any of my Republican friends want to completely and abruptly end Medicare, SS, unemployment, food stamps, et al.

Take Medicare, for example. Several support Ryan's plan to switch it to private health insurance accounts. They think that people will get better service at less cost to the country as compared with Medicare. No one can argue that SOMETHING has to be done to reform Medicare or, assuming that current trends will continue, the cost will become unsustainable. I think that moving the nation to a single payer national health insurance is likely to provide the solution. They believe that private insurance does. All of us want people to have access to medical care, but we disagree on what the most fair and efficient way is to provide that.

Why is it that some people can't accept that the people they disagree with have good intentions and bad ideas?

Similarly, do you think that Republicans are a monolithic group? Are Democrats? Do you completely agree with every plank of the Democratic party platform each election? I certainly don't. One of the benefits of having a diverse group of friends and associates is that you get exposure to lots of different viewpoints. I often feel that I am trying to get them to see my perspective (frequently alien down here), but I freely admit to having my views adjusted by listening to their views.

[kentuck]

44. I have yet to hear one Republican...

say that they disagree with the Ryan Plan? Are they calling their Congressmen and Senators to make their views known?

"Why is it that some people can't accept that the people they disagree with have good intentions and bad ideas?"

"...but I freely admit to having my views adjusted by listening to their views."

Obviously, you accept a lot of their viewpoints. I like honesty in a person. Sometimes people think they are so smart and they can troll and unrec to their hearts content and no one will ever know. They can do it for years. It's good to see that you are not one of those people that hide behind the skirt of the radical Republicans, pretending to be something you are not.

[FreeJoe]

46. I'm losing you

To answer your first question, according to this CNN poll (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/01/cnn-poll-majority-gives-thumbs-down-to-ryan-plan/) Republicans are split pretty evenly on the Ryan Plan. Around here, I hear more support than opposition, but certainly nothing like enthusiastic unanimity. I have no idea whether the people for or against are contacting our Senators or Congressmen. The point I was trying to make was not one in favor of or even against the Ryan Plan. I was trying to point out that the people I know that support it do so because they think it will lead to better health care for the elderly. At least that is what they tell me they believe and I have no reason to doubt that. The important point is that they are not demons who despise grandma and want to through her off the bus. They are good people making bad policy choices.

As for the latter part of your message, you've lost me. It appears that you are calling me a troll. I'm not. Not everyone that disagrees with you on some subjects, particularly something as banal as whether republicans are evil or misguided, is a lurking conservative here to cause mayhem. As for unrecing, I've never rec'd or unrec'd a thread. It's not a concept I'm very familiar with and so I just don't bother with it.

This is the second time in the last couple of days that I've basically been accused of being a troll for daring to accept a strict black/white view of the world. Actually, the other was a bit more nuanced. In the other thread I asked the simple question of whether there would be a practical impact if the ERA was passed given that gender discrimination is illegal in almost all non-trivial circumstances. Instead of getting a response showing me what I'd missed or confirming my assumption, I was basically called a troll.

I'm hoping that this attitude is not too pervasive here. After years of encouraging the conservatives around me to open their minds and be willing to hear viewpoints other than the Fox/Rush echo chamber, it would be disappointing to find the same attitudes mirrored here.

[kentuck]

48. Either you are feeling guilty?

Or you can't take a compliment? Surely you are not a troll, are you? Did someone call you a troll?

[FreeJoe]

50. My sincere apologies

I misunderstood your prior posts and read it as a sarcastic accusation of trolling. I'm sorry.

[vi5]

2. It's pure selfishness...

Shortsighted selfishness. It really is. Everything about Republicans can be distilled down with those 2 words. It encapsulates everything they do, everything they say, and everything they convince people that is in their best interest.

Fuck them and everything they stand for. And fuck any Democrat who thinks you can "reach out" to them or "compromise" with them. Anyone who honestly believes that is either an idiot or willfully complicit.

[Maraya1969]

3. Time to kick and recommend because the trolls have already been working here

I gave a a +1 and it ended up on zero

[canetoad]

5. Time to name the trolls

MATE

[divvy]

8. REPUBLICAN BASTARDS ! .... There, I spoke my peace

The first time I said it I almost got hit by a republican bastard who was carrying a clipboard. He approached me and said "Hello, have you heard the good news about Dick Devos"? Well things turned bad shortly thereafter. I called him a REPUBLICAN BASTARD, and he was right in my face taking my picture with his cell phone. He said I was going to be turned "in to the authorities." I sure hope they make me "the authorities", I replied, The first thing I would do is put your stupid ass in jail"

I don't think he was bright enough to catch my play on words. "turned in to" vs "turned into"

[annabanana]

9. k&r. . . troll overwhelment duty. . .n/t

[rhett o rick]

16. R & K

[kentuck]

17. "Come out, come out, wherever you are..."

You low-life sons-of-bitches.




















:-)

[HereSince1628]

18. Mental illness isn't the problem with republicans. Saying so shows

a lack of awareness of mental illness in general and of the body of psychological studies that have been done to attempt to understand the psychology of conservatism. Using mental illness as a derogatory term to stereotype an opposing group also suggests a chauvinistic, if not downright bigoted, attitude toward the mentally ill.

If you want to know about the psychology of conservatives and conservatism, you should read what has been published by scholars considering conservatism and psychology. It turns out that about one hundred scholarly articles have been written on the subject. The general conclusion drawn from them would be that conservatives are driven by complex cognitive motivators that have little or nothing to do with mental illness.

A meta-analysis looking for trends among 89 of these psychological and sociological studies was published by a group of leading psychologists and sociologists in 2003 (Psychological Bulletin 2003, Vol. 129, No. 3, 339–375). You can access a free pdf of it here:

http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/jost.glaser.political-conservatism-as-motivated-social-cog.pdf


Some individual Republicans undoubtedly suffer from mental illness, because collectively the many pathologies that make up mental illness afflict an unfortunately large fraction of the population. Nearly everyone in America has a first or second degree relative who suffers or has suffered one form of mental illness or another. The APA's DSM-IVR doesn't include conservatism, corporatism, or capitalism as mental disorders.

Mental illness isn't a characteristic of Republicans. Saying so is just as wrong as claiming that laziness and fraud are characteristic of every person receiving unemployment and disability.

I assume that your original intent was not to besmirch the mentally ill. Claiming republicans have unnamed psychiatric needs that should require institutionalization is a rhetorical ploy to attempt to say something derogatory in order to feel superior to Republicans. Unfortunately, that logic suggests that you believe that the mentally ill are similarly inferior. Using such a sweeping category of illnesses as a derogatory term isn't high rhetoric, heroic, Liberal, or Progressive; it's at very least overly broad application of inaccuracies.

Your intent to make a rallying anti-republican rant by stereotyping Republicans as mentally ill is spoiled for me because it is both uninformed on the subject and an insensitive public display of chauvinism toward the mentally ill.

[kentuck]

19. That's a clever hi-jack.

No, they're not mentally ill. They are just crazy!

[HereSince1628]

23. LOL, the op opened the door, the topic was central to its content

Have a nice day.

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/propaganda3.html

Name Calling,

"The language of nonthought."----Lionel Trilling

.
.
.

4. Basic abuse and accusations of mental illness.

[kentuck]

24. "I assume that your original intent was not to besmirch the mentally ill."

Your quote.

And you are correct.

[The Big Vetolski]

47. Perhaps, but capitalism relies on mental illness. In order to be a

good capitalist, one must be a good sociopath. A sociopath does not care how his actions affect others so long as they get him what he wants. A capitalist does not care how his actions affect others so long as he gets what he wants, which is more capital. More profits. Always more, more, more. That is why capitalism and the human race cannot both survive.

I'll bet on the human race surviving. Capitalism is doomed by its own nature. What will replace it? I don't know. Maybe something like democratic socialism. Maybe something completely new. But one way or the other, our current economic system is doomed.

[Enthusiast]

20. Republicans are unpatriotic.

Why do they hate America? Clearly they do hate America. Help me communicate this fact to everyone you know. Republicans, in fact, ARE lower than whale shit.

[kentuck]

22. If we cannot shame them into recognizing their behavior...

what other options do we have? Innocent, by reason of insanity, certainly does not sell. Assuming. of course, that their insane logic deserves equal billing with rational thought.

[Enthusiast]

25. If only they could be exposed

to an alternate explanation for the reality they embrace. You know, the one created for them by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. For example, just imagine if they didn't believe deregulation and tax cuts were the only answers for every problem that the nation faces.

[pipi_k]

33. Oh my...

See, that's probably the exact same thing they would say about us, you know.

If only we could be exposed to things that make sense to them, then no doubt we would all see the light and change our minds...

Yeah...pretty funny, isn't it. We know that would never happen.


Each side thinks it has all the correct answers.

OK, think about it...how likely are you to change your opinions based on what's on Fox News? Or whatever rationalizations a Republican might try to argue with you?

Yet people sit here and believe that calling them out, confronting them, etc., will change Republicans' minds. People are going to believe what they believe, and they'll probably cling to their beliefs with desperation if they see someone trying to force them to believe something else.

So...IMO, anyway...people running around confronting others for their beliefs are only creating more of what they're trying to get rid of.


:shrug:

[kentuck]

35. You are probably correct but...

It is wrong to give their destructive ideas the same weight as ones that are beneficial to society. For example, we may as well say that the Ryan Plan to do away with Medicare is comparable to the present plan and is just a difference in opinion, even though the facts show that it will create untold hardships on many senior citizens. We have to draw the parallel. We cannot force our opinion on them but we should vehemently disagree with their destructive ideas at every opportunity. It helps no one to simply define it as a simple difference in perception.

[pipi_k]

39. I just want to ask, though...

if any sort of disagreement...or attempt to "educate" some of them is pretty much an exercise in futility, what's the point?

If they're not going to change their minds, how does that translate to actually getting anything accomplished?

Think of your most strongly held belief. Now imagine someone trying to convince you of its wrongness. You know, not everything Republicans believe is garbage. I'm talking about the moderates here, now. Just like not everything Democrats believe is always "right".

No matter how many sides there are, everybody thinks HIS side is the right one. Nothing can be accomplished that way, IMO. Sometimes people have to do things so everybody gets something of what he wants. Doing it any other way gets nothing for anybody because people are too busy fighting over whose side is more right than the other...

:shrug:

[kentuck]

45. You make some very valid points.

However, I think there may be more ways to "educate" than just one? If by "education", you mean discussion and civil discourse, I think that option is pretty well shot. Not that it is the fault of the individual as much as it is the propaganda and political environment.

I will admit that this post uses a different tact. It's purpose is to piss off Republicans and to draw a few trolls out of the woodwork, which I think it did. It is meant to be a verbal 2x4 up the side of the head. How can they unanimously support their Party on the Ryan Plan? Isn't there just one that will speak out against it? How can they support their Party in giving more tax breaks to the wealthy and willing to default on the government's debt in the process? Isn't there one Republican somewhere that can disagree with these policies? Are they all so damn afraid to speak up?

I don't claim that the Democrats are always right or that I am always right. When I disagree with the Party or the President, I do not hesitate to say so. There are some issues that deserve to be discussed, not used as a hostage issue to extort more wealth to those at the top.

"You know, not everything Republicans believe is garbage." Can you give an example? :-)

[Enthusiast]

51. But right wing propaganda is exactly that -

PROPAGANDA. What they believe is not true. They believe that tax cuts increase revenue. This notion is absurd yet I have heard this from RW information sources repeated hundreds of times. They believe Saddam Hussein had WMDs. He didn't. They do not believe in the science of climate change. Imagine, contrary to a huge scientific consensus they choose to believe otherwise because it is more convenient.

[John Paul Jones]

26. And some of them no doubt hold the same amount of contempt for you...

Many ideologues no longer consider their political opponents to be people with different ideas and philosophies. Nowadays, they are evil, low-life monsters who want to kick our dogs, kill our grandmothers and end the American way of life.

:patriot:

[kentuck]

27. But only if...

...they "want to kick our dogs, kill our grandmothers and end the American way of life."

They have shown their contempt. How much more do you need to see?

[John Paul Jones]

31. What I need to see, is a difference...

...the industrialists have clung to the Republican Party, while the Democrats have come to represent Wall Street...The symbiotic relationship here is that trial lawyers and Wall Street interests need laws favorable to lawsuits, to rules geared toward investors and to open flows of accurate business information, including requiring companies to report details of their operations. In turn, Democrats love the piles of money these interests give to them.

Industrialists believe it should be almost impossible to sue their companies, want the rules tilted in their favor and hate having to reveal any information. They form the upper ranks of the Republican Party and direct its ideology on economic issues.

http://www.greens.org/s-r/33/33-16.html

[kentuck]

32. With all your complaints against the Democrats...

they still have a long ways to go to equal the insanity of the present Republican Party. They don't even care if the country and economy collapses, so long as the wealthy get their taxcuts. That in no way can be compared to the trial lawyers in the Democratic Party, in my opinion. They both may be despicable but they are not equally despicable.

[John Paul Jones]

52. Supporting a lesser evil only leads to more evil.

So to return to the third of the three questions asked at the start of this essay, about settling for the lesser of two evils: Do you feel either of the sides described above represents you? If not, you should make a clean break with Democrats, as well as with Republicans. To create a better world, to eliminate the economic domination exerted by a relative few at the top, use your vote on a candidate who represents what you believe in, and, much more importantly, join the ranks of protesters and demand change. Supporting a lesser evil only leads to more evil.

[lunatica]

40. I think you're a troll

[John Paul Jones]

53. You should try thinking a little more...

You need the practice.

[lunatica]

42. I think you're a troll

[kentuck]

29. Let me be more clear. If you are a Republican reading this....

Screw you! You traitorous, unpatriotic, greedy piece of shit.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. +1000000!

:thumbsup:

[lunatica]

43. I agree 100%

[moondust]

41. Weak morals.

Willing to sacrifice anybody and anything in their lust for wealth and power.

Unfortunately, some Democrats aren't much better.

[The Big Vetolski]

49. I have no Republican friends. I used to, but sooner or later, they

all did something that was good for THEM and bad for me but expected me to remain their friend, anyway. Of course, if I ever did anything that was bad for them but good for me, the same people would cut off all ties with me immediately. I learned. I no longer befriend Republicans. They are mostly selfish hypocrites. Being friends with a Republican if you are not is just asking to get screwed.

I still have Republican relatives, but they have all learned not to bring up politics around me at family reunions. I will not keep my mouth shut if they do, and I will not apologize. We all know that, so just stick to safe subjects like sports or how pretty some places are.