Am I wrong to think Obama is an 'OK' President?

[Taverner]

I do not think he is Bush Lite. I don't even think he's Clinton lite. He's probably the most liberal President we've had since Carter. And to me, that's a good thing.

However, I also don't think he walks on water. His handling of the economy leaves much to be desired. His capitulations to the GOP have pissed me off to no end. His non-support of Elizabeth Warren has made me livid.

But at the same time, he did pass Health Care Legislation. And as we have seen in VT, Single Payer will come about in the States, not the Federal Government. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe not. America has never had universal health care before.

His handling of OBL is what we should have done on 9/12/01

On the other hand, he is still propping up a bloated military, which will sink us in the end.

If he's capable of learning from his mistakes, his second term might be what we want. Then again, it might be more of the same. Either way, he has my vote. In the primary and in the general.

Add to this that he could teach all of us a lesson on parenting - the First Family is about as close as you can get to Norman Rockwell. And having studied the 'illustrator (not artist, his words)' if he were alive today, 90% of his material would be involving the First Family in some way or another. How can you not fall in love with this family?

Anyway, I think he's an OK president. I would love an excellent President, but we haven't had one of those since FDR.

[nashville_brook]

1. my new bumpersticker

[blondeatlast]

4. *snort* nt

[blondeatlast]

2. No. think of what it could have been; McCain's been my senator since I could vote

and he would have been a fucking disaster.

[calimary]

51. Agreed! Just think of what could have been. And a president mcsame would have meant

a vice president palin. DEAR GOD. I mean, REALLY, could there be any doubt, or any buyer's remorse from anyone on our side? I don't care which way you lean, or how far.

:scared:

[Myrina]

78. VP ... at least she would have been accountable for her actions/speech ...

... and the voting populace would have solid evidence as to why she should never, ever hold elected office. Oh, and she'd have "retired" by now, too so we'd have a different VP altogether by this point - the never-ending E! train wreck that is Sarah Palin would be finished.

[Myrina]

77. ... and we would likely have taken a supermajority in the midterms ...

... rendering 'President McSame' pretty useless, much like the current POTUS has willingly done to himself with all of his 'bipartisan behind-closed-doors meetings'.

:shrug:

[Warpy]

3. I think he's done very well with what he's had to work with

and, between the GOP and the Blue Dogs, that hasn't been much.

I was never under the illusion that he was a true blue liberal. I just hoped he was smart enough not to make Clinton's mistake, that of wasting his first two years on GOP pet projects he agreed with, and he didn't.

I've also noticed that he does a lot of work behind the scenes and generally uses the bully pulpit far less than he actually needs to, but that's the man's style.

Barring catastrophe, I'll vote for him in 2012 instead of simply against whatever horror the GOP puts up. In some ways, he's managed to turn the shit sandwich he was handed into fertilizer better than I thought he would.

[MilesColtrane]

5. If all we ever get out of him is Kagan and Sotomayor I will count him a success.

The very real and long reaching consequences of Supreme Court picks was driven home for me by Bush v. Gore.

[blondeatlast]

8. And Labor Secretary Hilda Solis--a true friend of unions and labor. nt

[Angry Dragon]

64. Yep ............ fighting to save all those teaching jobs

[RKP5637]

6. I think we could do far far far worse than Obama! n/t

[arcane1]

7. Same here. I expected to disagree with him often when I happily voted for him.

And thus far the agree/disagree ratio is about where I expected it to be :)

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

21. LOL!

Sounds like you got a bit of a crush.

:eyes:

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Sounds like your needle is stuck

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=684165&mesg_id=684290

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1232958&mesg_id=1233601

Really, do you think that's a constructive response to someone saying a Republican might win? You've used it 3 times today. It's such a junior high phrase. It adds about as much as saying 'whatever'. Or rolling your eyes. Trying arguing, rather than repeating a meaningless phrase.

[Nye Bevan]

49. Duh. Whatever.

I guess you have a crush too.

:eyes:

[JTFrog]

76. I'll do as I please.

You do as you please.

See how that works? :shrug:

Nothing constructive about praising republicans. If that's what you want to do, I'm probably going to keep responding the same. Just the way I am. Tough cookies if you don't like me. I'm sure there are some reciprocal feelings going on.

[SoDesuKa]

65. This is a Smear

Obama is a weak candidate with a poor record. He managed to win against McCain who was old and out of it. This time he won't be running against a non-entity like McCain. Obama stands a good chance of losing against a candidate who can actually put up a fight.

We really ought to have a primary. It's a much more democratic way to select our nominee, don't you agree?

[JTFrog]

75. No, obviously I don't agree.

We had a primary in 2008 after having a sitting Repuke pResident. We don't primary one term sitting Dem Presidents. History will tell you why. Look it up if you don't understand how having one in 2012 would really give your new crushes a much better chance to destroy the country.

:shrug:

[dionysus]

79. .

:rofl:

hookay then...

[DJ13]

10. My biggest criticism is he's not the fighter we thought we voted for

He has caved too often to the conservatives (in both parties) to be an effective progressive.

His kind of leadership would be perfect if our country didnt have so many serious problems facing it.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. No more wrong that those who think he is a Piss poor President.

I think that, Like Clinton, he is a classic conserative closer to Eisenhower than Kennedy or Johnson. (Consevtivism at the time of Ike is not what has evolved from Reagan and Bush.)

Most of Norman Rockwell's paintings were of lower class, working class, or middle class people, but especially common people. His wealth does not make him a Rockwell type. His parenting skills are quite close to the Clintons, who very much protected their daughter.

I don't think we can decide whether he is a good or a bad President yet. I do think he is better than W Bush, especially in his first 2 years.

[izquierdista]

36. Damning with faint praise

Who would NOT be "better than W Bush, especially in his first two years"? I think you have to dig into the Hitler/Stalin/PolPot/KimJong-Il level to find someone worse than Dubya.

[Ozymanithrax]

44. Actually, Harding, Grant, Pierce, Buchanan, Taylor

Fillmore, Coolidge, Tyler, Harrison, and Hoover are considered to be the worst Presidents in history. I think W, with his disastrous economic and foreign policies is at home in that list. I don't think until Obama becomes an elder statesman we can really decide is he is best, worst, or mediocre.

I don't see any reason to go to the monsters of history for comparisons, as they were not American Presidents.

[izquierdista]

55. You would if you were Iraqi

If you consider Iraqis to be actual human beings, then Dubya's numbers are right up there with Pol Pot and Kim Jong-Il. I'm sure he will be able to beat them out and edge into the Hitler/Stalin range when the effect of depleted uranium on future generations of Iraqis is taken into account.

[Ozymanithrax]

81. But the OP isn't about Iraq or the Iraq war. It is about the relative standing...

of Obama to Bush and other American Presidents.

I think Bush is easily among the worst Presidents in U.S. history. I don't think that Obama can be evaluated until he has finished his time in office.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

46. So he's not Hitler.

So I guess we can call him a success.

[Ozymanithrax]

80. It is amazing how much false information you read between the lines.

The OP is about whether Obama is a good president or not, and that is determined how he compares to other AMerican Presidents.

If you want to discuss histories monsters and evaluate where Bush stands among them, you might try a different thread.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

60. Give him another 4 years, and I truly believe that he'll be more progressive than people

think. That is contingent on whether or not we keep the Senate. I think that Obama is more progressive than we know; it's just that he's had to work with Blue Dogs and Corporatists in his own party, not to mention the racist Teabaggers, aided and abetted by the Republican Party. Neither FDR, LBJ, nor Clinton have had to deal with this shit.

[hfojvt]

12. OK, but far worse than I expected

even Clinton seems better, and progressives were upset enough with Carter to support Kennedy in a primary, so Carter is hardly the liberal standard.

Somehow I had hoped/thought we would do better than Clinton. Now I just feel like I owe all the Hillary supporters an apology.

Sure he's better than McCain in much the same way that a punch in the nose is better than a kick in the balls. But I don't usually celebrate when people punch me in the nose either.

I would love to vote against Obama in a primary. In fact, I think that would be a way for me to release some of the anger I have at him before I had to take a big swig of pepto bismol, put a clothespin on my nose and do what had to be done in November.

[TheBigotBasher]

53. Which "Hillary supporters"?

The ones attracted by the "hard working white Americans" shit or the ones now re-imagined that Hillary supposedly ran a more liberal campaign than Obama?

He ran a decisively centrist campaign, too many on the left saw it as left wing because no other candidate faced the idiocy of a Republican running a Primary campaign for a Democratic candidate. The Hillary campaign started the "Obama is the most liberal Senator", they were involved in the birther crap, the Muslim crap and the Rev Wright crap. So if a side is pushing "he is the most Liberal Senator" as an attack where will "liberals" go?

Hillary played the perfect campaign for those determined to lose it.

[bvar22]

57. "He ran a decisively centrist campaign"

That depends on who Obama was talking to.
Pledging to "re-negotiate NAFTA",
and to "make EFCA the Law of the Land"
are NOT issues that can be labeled "Centrist".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNVIQqatyU

[sendero]

72. Yeah....

... we just imagined all the stuff he said about the public option, about transparency in Washington, about civil rights, and everything else.

The idea that Obama is governing just like he said he would is BIG FAT LIE that only works on people with NO MEMORY or ABILITY to do a simple google search.

[bhikkhu]

67. Keep in mind, the world economy collapsed in mid-campaign

It reminded me a little of how Gore and Bush were trading campaign barbs over who was going to spend the huge budget surplus with greater wisdom, and then it was basically gone before the election even happened. Bush was just stupid enough to keep his early promise of "tax cuts for all" anyway, which is a big part of how we got where we are now...

In any case, it is worth remembering that Obama's campaign had to change course in midstream out of necessity, and even before the election had to figure out what to do with the smoking wreckage that bush left. Priorities and schedules changed, I think he has done very well, and will continue to do so.

[ProSense]

13. Here is a really good

article that, despite the title, shows the strength of the Wall Street reform bill as legislation goes, and how hard special interest are working to it down during the rule-making process.

Some of the highlights from the article on the progress here.

It's the same with other Obama policies like health care reform, e.g., the administration's efforts to strengthen Medicaid.

[JackRiddler]

14. You can think what you like, long as you understand he is the usual president.

Sure. We're all happy about the Supreme Court appointments not being another pair of Scalias, and not having the war with Iran that McCain was itching for. (We got Libya and escalations in Yemen and Afghanistan.) We're all happy about ending DADT.

But what's with the biggest questions of all?

Military industrial complex, more than half the discretionary budget to Pentagon & Co., empire, wars, secret government or "deep state" -- untouched. More than half of the term has seen the Pentagon under a Bush appointee.

Banksterism -- bailed out and made more powerful than ever. Banksters and corporate chiefs serve in the key economic posts.

War on Drugs -- forever! Fuck Mexico.

"War on Terrorism" -- renamed.

Credible response to the greatest crises facing humanity, a destructive economic system and the constant attack on our species' own ecological viability -- none.

The Bush roll-back of constitutional government and civil liberties -- consolidated.

The ruling class kabuki about "entitlements" being the real cause of the fiscal crisis -- continues.

"No Child Left Behind," education "reform" -- renamed and made worse.

Helping the poor, or even mentioning anyone people worse off than the "middle class"? Ha.

Show some solidarity with Latin America's historic emergence out of imperialism? Ha, Hugo Chavez is still Public Enemy No. 1.

Business as usual. Who among the past presidents would have been different on these big matters?

Do you have a favorite Roman emperor?

[xiamiam]

16. k and r..i agree with everything you said jack riddler..nt

[Taverner]

24. Many of those problems will never go away

Take the Military Industrial Complex. Once you invite a demon in your home, the demon will never leave.

Take them on at your peril.

I do not think they will kill you if you go against them, but they will kill you politically.

As in, you're never covered by the Coproation's Paid for media.

If you don't believe me, read the story of Orson Wells. You go against the media (which is owned by Multicorps) and you, at least in the public eye, die.

Today, going up against anyone who owns media is the same.

[kentuck]

25. When was the last time you heard a Democratic President or Senator..?

say the words, "poor people". You are correct that they speak of helping the "middle class" but we have more poor people every day and more and more "middle class" are becoming poor. What are they afraid of?

[TheBigotBasher]

54. Sadly, a gut about to face prison

for something Rethugs do for breakfast. Edwards.

Yes he is a Republicant (letters may be interchangeable or removable) shit ho for what he did to his wife. That does not make him a criminal. If it does investigate 300 seats.

[unblock]

15. people forget to give congress credit/blame. think of what fdr could have done

had he faced today's congress.

yes, fdr did some incredible things and faced down the forces of the right wing.

but the right wing was FAR less powerful then compared to today.

fdr had, at times, VETO-PROOF majorities supporting him. the 75th congress house had 333 democrats to 89 republicans and in the senate it was 75-17

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

that means that congress was actually in a position to tell fdr what to do!
yes, fdr was a great leader, but he led forces of his own party. congress deserves great credit for actually pushing through his agenda and we can't lose sight of the fact that it was only possible because the country was overwhelmingly behind the democrats.

obama is in a vastly different position because even when the democrats have a "majority" it's hardly a unified and strong majority.
if we had given obama a congress where democrats outnumbered republicans by fdr-like margins, obama would have been behaving very differently and we would be feeling very differently about him.

[TheKentuckian]

31. That isn't what the appointments, attitude toward civil liberties, education policies, and

backroom deals indicate to me.

[unblock]

37. the backroom deals -- with whom? that's the point.

if the powers that be behind the scenes were liberal or socially aware or at least weren't so damn right-wing corporate, obama would be forging different deals. even if you believe all he's good at is finding "middle ground" between the powers that be, well, if he's finding "middle ground" between sides that are already much further to the left, he'd be forging deals much further to the left.

i'm not saying it's all congress's fault, but i'm saying it's hardly all obama's either.

if congress were 3-1 democrats, and the money lobby wasn't nearly as powerful, and the fear lobby wasn't as powerful, and people were itching for major job spending programs and so on, obama would not be appointing the people he's been appointing, he would not be keeping guantanamo open, and so on.

[chowder66]

17. obama is pushing a boulder uphill while a herd of elephants pushes back.

Wish I had an illustration of that image in my mind.

He is doing a great job considering. I'm frustrated with a few things but I see the repubs as the main culprit. They are obviously going after everything Dems hold dear, unions, pro-choice, lgbt, etc making us defend and protect so we cannot move the agenda forward in the manner that is needed.

[JoePhilly]

22. He also has parts of the left demanding that he push the boulder ...

... farther to the left, and then up, then more to the left, then up .... oh, and do it faster, faster, faster.

As they stand and watch, apparently unable to see the hill or the elephants.

[chowder66]

30. +1

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

45. Amen

[JackRiddler]

47. If your metaphor corresponded to reality, you'd be right!

You can always come up with an image, but it needn't have anything to do with what's actual.

I say he plays the one guy everyone thinks runs things on a TV show ("the news"). Despite monumental crises, the business of an enormous and out-of-control state and empire continues as usual, and barely figures in the show.

On the big questions (not all of them, just the big ones: money, corporations, empire, energy, ecology) he and the elephants play out a circus of puffing up disagreements about minor points into big fights. Or is professional wrestling the best metaphor?

[msongs]

18. he is ok. will be playing golf with Boner instead of visiting Wisconsin to show solidarity.

unless he visited Wisconsin to support FELLOW Dems and I missed hearing about it.

[bvar22]

19. "The most Liberal president since Carter."

I agree,
but that doesn't say anything good about Obama.
That is an indictment of how FAR to the RIGHT this country's political parties have lurched.
I am old enough to remember when we had genuinely Democratic Presidents who upheld traditional "Democratic" values.
Obama is to The Right of even the Republican Presidents of that era.

Anybody who claims that "Free Trade" is GOOD for America does NOT qualify as a "Democrat" in my experience.
One can NOT be Pro-LABOR and Pro-FreeTrade at the same time.

THIS is what it used to mean to be a Mainstream Democrat.

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Americas own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."---FDR

How FAR to the RIGHT we have fallen.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[ProSense]

23. Carter

wasn't a liberal Democrat. He initiated deregulation among other things.

It's interesting that a pro-deregulation President can be considered more "liberal" than a pro-regulation President.

[Shagbark Hickory]

50. He's a liberal democrat now perhaps but not 35 years ago.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DCBob]

26. How dare you make such a statement.. you will be "tarred and feathered" DU style.

;)

[JackRiddler]

34. Very bad substitute for your absence of an argument.

[DCBob]

35. no argument intended.. just a rather lame attempt to make a humorous comment of DU attitudes..

sorry you didnt get it.

[JackRiddler]

39. Do you think maybe some "attitudes" are more grounded in reality than others?

[DCBob]

40. yes.

[nolabear]

27. I think he's pretty good, but the times are terrifying. We could use spectacular.

And i think a lot of people are really mad at him for not riding in on a white horse, whipping up on people who are running us over a cliff, and being a Righter of All Manner of Wrongs. Dems get ribbed for overidealizing him but I think lots of us did (I like to think I was a little reasonable, but not totally by a long shot) and pretty good looks pretty nerve-wracking when you see the sheer evil on the other side.

But I'll take him over any other horse in the race. God knows what we'll do in 2016, but we'd better be setting something up. The RW will kill us if let run amok.

[liberalmuse]

29. He's actually a better Prez than I thought he would be.

I knew what I was getting when I cast my vote for him. He was my choice after Hillary (Oh god, and before her, Edwards) because I knew he wasn't as liberal as I'd wanted him to be. So far, he has exceeded my expectations, especially considering the nonsense he's had to deal with from the utterly despicable tea bagger and Republican fuckwits. Every single time I start getting disillusioned with him, he does something the very next day to turn me around. He's an honorable man, and a man of his word - or tries to be. I think he's better than we deserve, to be honest. Well, better than the Americans who voted for W, supported the wars or still sit on their hands every election deserve, anyway.

[JanMichael]

32. No, the bar is very low for US presidents.

It takes very little to get to "ok".

Set your the bar low and you are always guaranteed to "leap" over it.

[murielm99]

33. I knew what I was getting when I voted for him.

He is a moderate.

I had the advantage of living in Illinois and watching him come up the ladder.

I didn't want him to be the nominee, but I worked my butt off when that happened.

Of course there have been disappointments. There will be with any Democrat we elect. I don't understand the people who idolized him, and thought he could wave a magic wand to make the evils of the bush administration disappear. Give him time, and give him another term, but keep up the pressure.

He is an okay President.

[Taverner]

38. Okay indeed

Even your feircest Anti-Obama Democrat can find SOMETHING good in him

Clinton or Bush, Bush or Reagan - not so much

[kentuck]

41. He's the only choice we have.

You can't have the bread by itself.

[Obamanaut]

42. At that level of world power, I'd prefer much higher than 'ok' nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

43. Agree 100%.

[Nye Bevan]

48. I give him about a B minus on most issues

except for an F on gay rights, of course.

Somewhat disappointing but vastly preferable to Bush or McCain.

[tishaLA]

58. You'd really give him an F on LGBT issues

when he has done more than any other president on LGBT issues? I know the bar is low in that area, but Pres Obama (and especially Nancy Pelosi) worked very hard to get the repeal of DADT. I can see giving him a B or even a C+ on LGBT issues, if only because of DOMA and ENDA, but an F?

[Nye Bevan]

63. If he opposed interracial marriage, I would give him an F on racial issues.

Sorry, but "marriage is between a man and a woman" is an automatic fail.

[Shagbark Hickory]

52. It boils down to jobs and the economy.

And how effectively the swing voters can be made afraid of the other party.

[vi5]

56. He's just "OK" because that's all he needs to be....

He knows the other side is so completely batshit fucking insane and totally off the rails, that all he needs to be is "OK" and enough Dems will vote for him because we're scared out of our gourds about the other side.

He doesn't have to actually go the distance on anything. Just not be a completely loon and for Dems he's a million times better than the alternative.

Then just minimize any actions, words, or activities that they can use to paint him as "leftist" or "liberal so that he doesn't scare off precious independents or "moderates" and that's absolutely all he needs to be. OK.

In other words the bar is set absurdly low and that's all he needs to clear. And he's doing that. It's just fucking pathetic that it's come to that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

59. I agree 100%!!! K&R!! n.t

[Bonobo]

61. Nope, you're right.

He is squarely right in the middle of "okay".

Unfortunately, the USA is SO fucked that they needed to do a lot better.

Sadly, the American people were set up and ready to vote for someone who could stand up and be more than "okay", but they selected a guy who has made a career and life out of being as acceptable to as many as possible --not a fighter.

[MadMaddie]

62. Yes that's a good way to look at him.

We (You, me and others here) need to deliver him a super solid majority in the House and the Senate and we can get the other things we want. Stopping the wars, getting real jobs bills etc..

[The Unawriter]

66. Oklahoma doesn't have a President

Shame on you for trying to confuse us old folks! :cry:

[AtomicKitten]

70. ah yup

[Ramulux]

68. Obama has been a bad president

He supports free trade, which pretty much makes it impossible for our economy to really begin to recover or for us to establish a manufacturing base. It also results in the massive exploitation of foreign workers by our corporations.

He supports the whole charters school/privatization/Race to the Top education agenda which demonizes teachers and harms public schools.

Hes a complete neo-liberal when it comes to foreign policy. Supporting a pointless failed war in Afghanistan and covert military operations in places like Pakistan and Yemen. Endless amounts of military bases overseas and no significant reductions in defense spending. Supports coup governments all over the world specifically in South America.

He fully supports the Patriot Act and all the ridiculous provisions that violate the constitution and take away our civil rights.

He refuses to hold the Bush administration accountable for its crimes and refuses to help prosecute anyone who had anything to do with the collapse in 2008.

He has ramped up attacks on whistle-blowers more than any president in American history.

He himself has cut over $40 billion in social programs without even including all the insane cuts proposed by the republicans that he agreed to.

He is anti-gay marriage.


I dont know about you but its hard for me to say that a president who has done all those things is just OK.

[SoDesuKa]

69. We're Stuck Because He's the Incumbent

The incumbent gets to be re-nominated by default. It's the way we do things in America, and it leads to all sorts of undesirable outcomes . . . like a permanent political class. These folks do everything possible to fend off challenges within their own party, and the public be damned.

Remember Blanche Lincoln? There's no way she deserved the Democratic nomination for Senate in Arkansas. She went on to be clobbered in the general.

[JoeyT]

71. K&R

I pretty much agree with you. He's ok.

I think he'd have had a much better chance of being a great president if he'd surrounded himself with different people.

[JCMach1]

73. Not bad for a Republican...

wait he is supposed to be one of us. :sarcasm:

[TBF]

74. He is a fantastic president for the elite - he's doing exactly what they want. nt