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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:36 AM
Original message
Obama administration wanted to keep troops in Iraq
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:38 AM by LittleBlue

Iraq rejects US request to maintain bases after troop withdrawal



Obama announces the full withdrawal of troops from Iraq but fails to persuade Nouri al-Maliki to allow US to keep bases there



The US suffered a major diplomatic and military rebuff on Friday when Iraq finally rejected its pleas to maintain bases in the country beyond this year.

Barack Obama announced at a White House press conference that all American troops will leave Iraq by the end of December, a decision forced by the final collapse of lengthy talks between the US and the Iraqi government on the issue.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/21/iraq-reject...


There seems to be some serious denial going on. The Obama administration did in fact negotiate to keep troops in Iraq. It was only after Al-Maliki rejected the terms of an extension (for troop prosecution immunity) of the old Bush agreement for US troops staying in Iraq that the US was forced to leave.

Obama did not decide to leave to fulfill a campaign promise, he was convinced to stay but legally can't without that agreement.

EDIT: For people who doubt the Guardian
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/21/world/meast/iraq-us-troop...
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/obama-speak-ir...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world/middleeast/pres...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/22/us-iraq-usa-o...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/a...
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Lots of claims, but no references or substantiation. Nada. Nothing.
There's nothing to make this article credible.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh give it up. They were talking about 3,000-5,000 trainers only if the Iraqis would agree
to grant them immunity which they wouldn't so none will stay.

Even 3-5,000 is puny compared to what we have kept in Germany and Japan. It is also a lot less then the Military wanted.

Stop trying to sow dissension and problems.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. +1
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wrong.
1. Title of the article is ....
"Iraq rejects US request to maintain bases after troop withdrawal" and not .... "Obama administration wanted to keep troops in Iraq"
2. Obama was ambivalent on the issue, seeing a total withdrawal as a good sell to a US public tired of war. But the Pentagon had wanted the bases, and the president reluctantly sided with the military staff.

Your re-titling of the article is misleading on its face.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Is the Pentagon not part of the Obama administration?
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:06 AM by LittleBlue
This is seriously what DU has sunk to? :rofl:
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You argued in your OP that ......
Obama the man ... President wanted to stay .... which is obviously a lie.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes at first he wanted to leave, but was convinced to keep troops there.
Whether he came to it on his own or was convinced by generals, he still authorized a stay. Is there a problem?
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Only problem is in you not seeing the difference between ...
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:17 AM by doublethink
the MIC and the Presidency ... power struggle over the years. Look up JFK ... maybe you'll learn a bit about the arm twisting that goes on in this 'convinced by generals' thingy as you put it.... :eyes: eom.

on edit: MIC not MIT .. ha ....
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. What relevance does that have to the OP?
Obama is the commander-in-chief, and he authorized negotiations for the troops to stay. FACT
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Your words ...
Obama did not decide to leave to fulfill a campaign promise, he wanted to stay

paraphrased ... Obama wanted to stay ... which is a lie. You may leave the witness stand, I rest my case... haha Peace and have a great evening, I am out. :hi:
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. As long as you acknowledge that he was convinced to stay
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:33 AM by LittleBlue
and authorized negotiations to stay, I really don't care. :hi:

Even edited the OP so you can feel better now.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Pres. Obama was "ambivalent on the issue" and "relunctantly sided with the military staff".
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:21 AM by ClarkUSA
"Obama was ambivalent on the issue, seeing a total withdrawal as a good sell to a US public tired of war. But the Pentagon had wanted the bases, and the president reluctantly sided with the military staff."

Your attempt to make it seem as if President Obama was all for the troops to stay is misleading. Your original OP reflects your false narrative: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. "sided with the military staff"
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:23 AM by LittleBlue
So Obama was convinced by the military that the troops should stay. And he allowed it.

Alright then.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. "reluctantly" John Bolton said Pres. Obama deliberately sabotaged talks to this end.
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:26 AM by ClarkUSA
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. But he still allowed negotiations for troops to stay.
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:26 AM by LittleBlue
John Bolton has never been credible here before and isn't even in the administration.

Good to know.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Talks that he made sure went nowhere, according to John Bolton.
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:27 AM by ClarkUSA
Have you ever heard of Kabuki Theatre? Obviously not.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. John Bolton isn't credible
He's a neocon whackjob.

Or he was before this thread, now he's credible... for the only time in his life. :rofl:

Bolton is saying that due to the old claim that liberals sabotage war efforts. He obviously doesn't know anything.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't believe the article ... especially this part ...
"Obama was formally told of Maliki's final decision on Friday morning in a video conference."

Because the story of Obama bring the troops home before the end of the year had already broke a few days ago.
I believe Obama had already decided to bring all the troops home long before today.

p.s. There has been quite a few articles coming out the UK lately that haven't been true.


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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. The Guardian is full of it. It was reported last month that bases & equipment would go to Iraqis.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. John Bolton says Obama decided before he became president
John Bolton: Obama Sabotaged Negotiations With Iraq In Order To Withdraw Our Troops

Its not very surprising that Fox News reacted to President Obamas announcement that all American troops will leave Iraq by the end of the year pretty much the same way the fair and balanced network reacted to the death of Qaddafi and even Osama Bin Laden by immediately finding ways to diminish and denigrate Obama. But Fox News contributor and former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton took the tactic to new lows when he announced tonight on On The Record that President Obama had deliberately undermined negotiations with Iraq to leave some of our forces there after January 1, 2012, the date President Bush negotiated for us to depart.

(snip, and Bolton said...)

I think the president effectively made the decision that he was going to have all American forces out by the end of 2011, even before he was inaugurated. I think the negotiations (to keep American troops in Iraq after January 1) weve seen over the past couple months were efforts by the Defense Department to try and salvage something. I think the president wanted to be able to say that he had withdrawn all American forces, that he had ended this war. Hes now done that and the consequences, which I think will be substantially negative for the United States, will be his responsibility.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


p.s. Sorry for posting a 'republican' quote. LOL




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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Every news organization is reporting it- links inside
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. They are not reporting your false narrative reflected in your original OP title before you edited it
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 01:29 AM by ClarkUSA
Gotcha! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Your words ... Obama did not decide to leave to fulfill a campaign promise, he wanted to stay"

paraphrased ... Obama wanted to stay ... which is false.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. It can't be they're trying to paint this as a failure...
Like you're trying to do now. The media would never do that. :eyes:
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. But it's not just this article. It's several articles from different sources. n/t
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
24. Obama didn't and that's why they're leaving
Funny how the buck stops with Obama until it makes him look good. Only then do some focus on his administration. We get it. Everything bad is Obama's fault, other people get credit for the good things.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. This has been going back and forth in the Iraqi parliament for months
...if you've been following the news. I think there were plans to go with whatever the Iraqis decided - and the choices were bringing everybody home, or bringing almost everybody home. Either way would have been ok with me, but this way is a very clear punctuation point on the end on the war, which has been ending for a couple of years now.

Its about time, and I think its certainly a good result for the country. Which means its a good result for the president.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
27. The OP is BULLSHIT. The story that Obama was bringing Troops home by Dec 31 brokes several days ago
and Al-Maliki didn't call Obama until Friday morning. IT WAS OBAMA'S DECISION TO BRING THE TROOPS HOME. President Obama HAS fulfilled his 2008 campaign promise!
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. The effort to try to ensure that Obama gets no credit for anything good he does never stops.
"It took too long."
"He did it too fast."
"He didn't really do it."
"He didn't really want to do it."
"Some one else made him do it."
"Its good, but some one else really did it."
"Ok, he did it, but its not really that important."
"Ok, he did it, but he's planning to undo it later."
"He's going to do something really bad later, just you wait."

Its endless.

Bottom line ... its been a tough week for the Obama bashers on both sides.
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JNinWB Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Wonderful ODS summary!
Funny, but sadly true.

Can you add the bullet point "OBAMA CAVED" about something or other onto your list?

"OBAMA CAVED to the Iraqis over troop withdrawal"
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
29. Did you expect any different responses?
:popcorn:



:D
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PragmaticLiberal Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. I definitely expected your response.
:-)
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. I aim to please.
:D
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
30. Correct.
Hold the ticker tape.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
32. U.S. pulls 700 troops from Iraq, denies report of mass withdrawal
"The US suffered a major diplomatic and military rebuff on Friday when Iraq finally rejected "

September 6: U.S. pulls 700 troops from Iraq, denies report of mass withdrawal

<...>

But as they prepare to exit, administration officials in Washington were denying a news report claiming the White House wants to keep fewer U.S. troops in Iraq beyond this year than previously believed. According to Fox News, the White House is considering keeping just 3,000 troops in Iraq beyond the Dec. 31 deadline for nearly all servicemembers to be out of the country, per the existing bilateral security agreement between Washington and Baghdad. Previous news reports said the administration wanted to keep 10,000 troops in Iraq.

On Tuesday, White House spokesman Jay Carney said the new report was not accurate.

If the Iraqi government makes a request of us, we will certainly consider it, he said, sticking with the U.S position and deferring to Baghdad.

Pentagon press secretary George Little also quickly dismissed the report, saying in an email, No decisions on troop levels have been made.

<...>

This bogus rumor started with Fox Noise and the rest of the media ran with it. In fact, even after the report was denied in early September, last week the media reported that the President abandoned the plan.

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MjolnirTime Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. We get it. You must find fault in all Obama does.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
36. Here are two more threads that pretty much allege the same thing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

It doesn't seem like anyone is providing any credible rebuttal to the well documented assertion that the Obama Administration wanted to leave some troops in Iraq. Instead, we see the tried and true method of attacking the messenger. Or they are saying that it's an effort not to give Obama credit for anything. But that's not it. It's an effort to get to the truth and nothing more.
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