Can we criticize the President without trying to tear down his dignity?

[phleshdef]

Just an honest request.

This nonstop barrage of hate is really getting to be over the top.

There is a line between criticizing and unbridled verbal bludgeoning for the sake of nothing more than pissing people off.

[boxman15]

1. I'm really sick of that too.

It's ridiculous. I certainly understand criticisms about the debt ceiling deal from the left, and I agree with certain points many critics are making. But, these angry rants that only serve to anger others are way too much. They add nothing positive to discourse.

[BlueJazz]

2. You Know, his actions (and how they affect us) are all that people ..

...have to go on.
I've never attacked him personally BUT I do understand, in these trying times, how some DUer's can take his actions very personal.

[Sheepshank]

3. But for all the new trolls about...it's how it's done n/t

[golfguru]

56. You forgot to add "racist" n/t

[Whisp]

4. it's poisonous here lately

why these people are allowed to shit all over the place is beyond me.

guess the membership acceptance rules have changed a whole lot since Bush left

[Enrique]

5. Obama gets off easy

people hold their punches with Obama compared to the way we criticize most other politicians.

[phleshdef]

10. Thats insane.

I don't even know what to say to that. Its that kind of shock you get when someone claims the blatant opposite of a well known truth and they say it with conviction. Thats the only way to describe my feelings when I read something like what you just said. Its so removed from reality that its almost impossible to form a coherent argument against it. Its like I need to explain to you why the earth is not flat or something. Just unbelievable.

[Enrique]

19. Nancy Pelosi

remember the way she used to be discussed on DU?

[phleshdef]

29. Yea and I agree there was a lot of the same kind of criticism, but I do not believe it was nearly...

...as prominent and relentless.

[Enrique]

40. ok, so we agree up to a point

now look at your post #10 above. A bit over the top? ;-)

[phleshdef]

44. I didn't attack your dignity.

I said something you said was insane beyond belief. If someone made the same comment about something Obama said, I wouldn't categorize that as the kind rhetoric that I'm referring to.

See the post below where my OP was just accused of being McCarthy Era Redbaiting in order to see an example of the kind of rhetoric I'm talking about.

[Mimosa]

36. You're not specific.

Since you're making the accusations , it's up to you to provide at least some evidence to back up the *ugly* accusations about people on what is henerally a good board.

You have provided no 'who, what, when, or where'.

[phleshdef]

48. Putting cutesy little asterisks around the word "ugly" doesn't make it any less invalid of a term.

Telling people you think they are going too far in their attacks is not an "ugly" accusation by every stretch of the imagination. Pretending that it is and then accentuating the word ugly as you do so does not lend any credibility to your argument.

Aside from that, its against the rules to specifically call other OPs out. So you'll have to rely on actually reading the board or you can just ignore what I said. I've no interest one way or the other as to what you do.

[CakeGrrl]

14. Oh, that's crap.

Unless you mean the "other" Republicans, since so many have proclaimed the President to be one of them.

:eyes:

[Enrique]

23. here

Here was Nancy's crime: she criticized the GOP: Pelosi to Blitzer: "I don't know why the . . . Republican members of Congress have a tin ear...



(...)

so now the question is: is she that fucking stupid or is she just a liar?

(...)

4. stupid liar

(...)


She has parlayed a seat in the House of Reps to a SEAT at the Rich White Man's Table, and she ain't looking back.

(...)

8. Is this woman delusional, dumb as a bag of rocks or just way beyond cynical...


(...)

That's a hell of an achievement for a little botoxed grannie from Pacific Heights with a rich hubby and a moral compass that's apparently been demagnetized for some time now.

(...)

There must be some way to get rid of this awful excuse for a Speaker. Can she be tricked into accompanying the Sergeant at Arms to the Capitol basement and locked away in that famous cell reserved for those held in contempt of Congress? The cell that should be the second home of Miers, Rove and Bolton at the very least if the majority party and its leadership was worth a shit.

(...)

it is called power hungry, craven, madness. She has it Big Time.


(...)

15. She gets more repulsive every day. nt

[emilyg]

37. Thanks. I was going

to look up Hillary, too. Lots of very nasty posts about her. This will do.

[Sheepshank]

66. You really must not spend too much time at GD

Plenty of this type of chatter about Obama. And FWIW, name calling is only one way to make statements towards Obama in an attempt at damaging any dignity. To bring the whole idea of 'dignity' down to name calling is disingenious.

[DevonRex]

18. Hahaha. Hahaha. Hee hee hee hee. SNORT!!

[AtomicKitten]

85. my sentiments exactly ...

[boxman15]

26. That is ridiculous.

Obama has been under more scrutiny and criticism from both sides than any politician I've ever seen. Some of it's deserved, but some criticism from both sides is personal and comes completely out of left field.

[Enrique]

28. i'm talking about DU

it's beyond question that democratic leaders were treated MUCH more harshly, much more abusively, than Obama is now.

[BlueJazz]

38. Very true. I'm in the market for a new car. If I knew a salesman like Obama....

...I could pick up a new Mustang for 3-4 thousand. :rofl:

[eridani]

52. Hell--you could get one completely free n/t

[Ikonoklast]

74. But only after you bought dinner for ten thousand of his closest friends.

What a deal, eh?

[treestar]

80. It's this kind of thing that is inaccurate

Being President is not like anything else.

Too easy for people to judge based on their much simpler experiences in life.

anyone who claims to be a political junkie needs more specific and informed basics than this.

[truth2power]

68. I agree with you, Enrique. But your point of view won't get any traction here. n/t

edit> for typo. I have an old keyboard.

[mkultra]

75. maybe you two should try FR

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I'm Not Disappointed In President Obama

I'm disappointed in America.

[bigwillq]

9. Me too.

We keep electing horrible politicians.

:rofl:

:hi:

[mcar]

Bingo

Democrats in Congress have been running away from their own records for years but everything's President Obama's fault. We'd still have the House, IMHO, if the congressional Dems had proudly run on their pretty impressive legislative accomplishments. Instead they cowered and hid because they were afraid the Repubs might say something mean about them.

It was the same with Clinton, Gore and Kerry. The elected Dems never had their backs. But they're so quick to come around complaining when they don't get what they want. It's really depressing.

[treestar]

81. Yes. That too. Having so many right wingers that the

world thinks we are nuts.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I'm Not Disappointed In President Obama

I'm disappointed in America.

[bigwillq]

8. Don't let it piss you off.

Or
Hit alert.
Hide thread.
Ignore user.

We all have choices.

[CakeGrrl]

17. True. I choose to call out the cheap-shot namecalling for what it is.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Empowerer]

11. THANK you! n/t

[DevonRex]

12. Not on DU apparently. Nt

[CakeGrrl]

13. That's a tall order.

I'm sure will defend everything that's been said as "the right to criticize our leaders", even if the remarks are emasculating and demeaning.

[ZombieHorde]

15. Recommended. nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

16. Like that'll ever happen here.

But if you dare to criticize one of DU's sacred cows, they go apeshit.

[daa]

20. What dignity how can he look in the mirror nt

[AlinPA]

21. I'm starting to wonder when this site will hit the tipping point where it will be mostly anti-Obama.

[DevonRex]

22. It already is. Has been for 2 years. Nt

[CakeGrrl]

27. Feels like it is now. -nt

[Armstead]

35. There might not be a reason for that

...and it'/s not about trolls.

How many times can people feel like "One more chance, one more chance....."

[Number23]

45. If it weren't for GD-P, it would already be there

Unfortunately, most of the special folks live in GD and rec every thread there, no matter how inane, untrue or destructive. The Greatest page has been useless for years.

[eridani]

53. What's wrong with being anti-Republican policies?

And anti-Republican messaging? Obama has not articulated any values about what ordinary people are going through since his 2008 campaign.

[nevergiveup]

24. Mean people tend to be attention seekers and also very loud

and yes, there are some mean people here but they certainly are not anywhere near a majority on DU. It just seems like it at times and this is one of those times.

[cui bono]

25. Can he govern without tearing down ours? n/t

[Reeta77]

33. +1 n/t

[Armstead]

30. If I said what I really think about Obama at this point....I'm holding back

[Mimosa]

31. First: who's 'we'? This is a non-specific VAGUE OP

I'm questioning the purpose of this topic. It's vague. It assumes there is a non-stop barrage of hate.

Who is getting verbally bludgeoned? When? About what in specific? To me this OP is yet another divisive big whine.

The president has innate dignity. Nobody on a darn discussion board which isn't a stupid racist right wing board can tear down the President's dignity. *rolling eyes*

[phleshdef]

34. The purpose of this topic and the identity of "we" is obviously clear to many other posters...

...who have responded to this thread. I don't think anything I said needs any further clarification.

[Mimosa]

41. Excuse me, it's vague, and odd.

Your tone reminds me of McCarthy era red-baiting. Why not explain, and show an example or two of what you mean? You want some people to go along with your very ugly accusation. Yet you've no proof.

Sometimes people disagree profoundly with policy directions. They get disappointed and disillusioned in the people they voted for. It's always been this way.

[phleshdef]

43. LOL McCarthy era red-baiting?!

This is exactly the kind of over the top, diabolical attribution nonsense that I'm talking about.

I don't need to show you anything. Its all over this site right now. And obviously, many other people that have responded to this thread are acknowledging that, even some that don't agree with my request. I'm not playing this silly game where you try to make me prove to you that 1 + 1 = 2. You can figure it out your own damn self or just choose to ignore my post. I really don't care.

If you are going to approach what I said in the silly fashion that you have, then I'm completely uninterested in convincing you of anything.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. K&R

This place HAS become toxic. Full ad hominem vitriol. It's sad.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kahuna]

46. Too late for that. It's a daily and continuous practice around these parts. nt

[Grandrose]

47. We can only hope!

It is really sad for me to come here now. I can accept criticism of policy...but why does his humanity have to be abused?:banghead:

[eridani]

54. I see nothing but policy criticism here

why would you support Koch whore policies just because some Dems are for them?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[graywarrior]

50. Most reasonable request

[Igel]

51. You're being sensitive.

Criticism of those you like, those you identify with, those you support, those in whom you vicariously see yourself or your goals, is taken to heart. In-group members get justification and defense.

Criticism of those you don't like, that you don't identify with, who you work against, who you see as a threat or as too dissimilar to yourself is all too true. Out-group members get denigration and abuse.

That's what it's like to be human. We've been like that since we started; almost all primates still form groups with exactly that kind of behavior. Western civilized ideas say something else, at least in theory. Then again, most of the world doesn't share those ideas, even in the West.

[politicasista]

55. Good request, but they do this to certain Dems they don't like n/t

[Armstead]

57. Okay. I believe President Obama made an error and I am slighly upset

He pushed through a bill that totally goes against everything I believe is needed, and pushes the US further towrds Republicanism.

But that's okay because he seems like a very nice and intelligent man.

[Supersedeas]

64. your dignity should be commended, sir

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightGardener]

59. Some here already have a seething hatred for him, it shows in every post.

So when something happens that they think will demoralize those of us who support the President, they sneer "How's that hope and change" or "Chill Out, I Got This"--they're really nasty, bitter people. They're gleeful whenever they think they've finally got everyone feeling bad, and that they've been proven right that Obama's worse than Bush and kicks puppies, or whatever bull they believe.

[Armstead]

67. Seeeeeth.....yep we're really happy when our larger beliefs get stomped on

I was absolutely thrilled when they killed the public option.

I was filled with glee when President Obama started to agree with the phony GOP "crisis" of long term deficits as more important than how we're going to get out of this economic mess and protect citizens from the fallout.

[johnaries]

73. I also hated that Liebermann killed the PO. And that the Tea Party

decided to turn a simple procedure into a crisis that threatened the US rating and ulitametely the world economy. But how do you blame Obama for those? He doesn't have a magic wand, after all. And, unlike Bush, Obama likes to work within the Constitution.

[woolldog]

76. Obama campaigned for Lieberman

over the democratic nominee. That's one way you blame him.

[tammywammy]

78. No he didn't.

He campaigned for Lieberman during the primary. He campaigned for Lamont in the general.

[dionysus]

84. false

[treestar]

79. Exactly. It's the choice to have that seething hatred be against

our Democratic President rather than the Tea Partiers or Lieberman that is kind of strange. They seem determined to blame Obama for everything rather than the truly evil right wing of this country. And that's strange and counterproductive.

[lynne]

60. Are you new here? Presidential Dignity has never been of much -

- concern at DU. Why start now? :shrug:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Itchinjim]

62. KNR

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fearless]

65. If he lets Americans eat cat food... no.

[Maven]

69. No matter what they TAKE FROM ME, they can't take away OBAMA'S DIGNITYYYYYYYY

(beating chest)

[cherokeeprogressive]

83. LOL Ding Ding we have a winnah!

[Dawgs]

70. Unrecced for using the word "hate".

You obviously don't understand if you use a word like that.

[LaydeeBug]

71. It's not exactly dignified to "bait and switch" American patriots, and, no, I won't stop calling

them TEA BAGGERS either.

When the President fights in a dignified manner, i will give him respect and dignity. Until then, it's up to him

[johnaries]

72. Thank you! But I'm afraid it's not possible for some people. I would

love to be able to have a reasonable discussion about where I agree and disagree with the President and why, but the vitriol and the misinformation makes that impossible.

[JoePhilly]

77. kick

[WorseBeforeBetter]

82. Any loss of dignity he brought on himself.

I could respond with the GD: P standard of mocking, with the obligatory :rofl:, but that would only be a childish attempt to piss people off.