I have asked this 8 ways of Sunday, read other ops. and no one has told me yet...cuts

[Peacetrain]

Where and when did the President say he was cutting Soc Sec. Benefits, Medicare Benefits.

and please don't tell me Mr. Anon in the Washington Post.

Just show me... please , that is all I am asking.

[Drale]

1. I would also like to know

but I'm sure the anti-Obama crowd will be here soon to "enlighten" us.

[Peacetrain]

3. someone show me something.. somewhere.. when did this happen

When did he say this..where did he say this.. to whom did he say this.. anything..

[Drale]

4. I'm running under the idea that

this entire thing is a right wing plot to get all the people on the left to in fight like the right is doing right now. They're stated goal is the make Obama a one term president and the only way they even have a chance at that now, with the tea baggers in the mix, is to split the Left's vote.

[Palmer Eldritch]

12. You are on the money.

They turn the left against Obama so that he is the one blamed in Public for risking a default rather than those who are truly at fault.

[robinlynne]

39. His press secreatyr said it on national tv last week. Something to the effect of there are other thi

things he wants to cut too. It was a reply to the outpour. He did not at all say no SS cuts. His response implied that yes obama is talking about the cuts.

[Palmer Eldritch]

2. He didn't and he won't. There has been no further "evidence" since the Washington Post article

Which has proven to be worth about as much as the paper it was printed on.

What it has shown is the knives some 'Democrats?' have waiting for Obama if they hear even the hint of a rumor that he's doing something they don't like.

Facts be damned, they want to believe.

[Peacetrain]

6. I am about this close to going all "Missouri"

I sit right on top of the show me state.. and someone somewhere.. "?show me" this quote??

[Palmer Eldritch]

8. There was no quote. Just an anonymous rumor bandied about like it was the Holy Grail.

[robinlynne]

40. That is simply not true. his press secretary said it on the news that night.

No I dont have a link, but if you find out whihc day it was and google, it was probably on every tv station. I watch bbc news.

He was responding to the outcry, trying to calm people down. His response was not very helpful in that respect.

[Palmer Eldritch]

42. You misinterpreted what was said.

[tekisui]

48. Welcome back!

[robinlynne]

79. That is possible. He certainly did NOT say: There will be no cuts to social security

or medicare.

[woo me with science]

5. Nancy Pelosi has acknowledged that a chained CPI is being considered.

In addition, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of "trial balloon" and how stories like this usually come to the press.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1447220

[Peacetrain]

7. Trial balloon?

I need to see this quote.. someone show me where the President said he was going to cut benefits.

[emulatorloo]

9. There isn't a quote. He never said any of that.

Speculation manufactured by op-ed, pundits, bloggers who are paid to speculate, bloviate, and sensationalize.

And such speculation is being promoted as fact.

[Palmer Eldritch]

11. Some require so little to convince them of what they want to believe.

[Peacetrain]

14. That is what it looks like to me.. because I cannot find any such quote anywhere

I have googled it to death..

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Peacetrain]

16. I am not going to pack it up on speculation...

And that just grinds me even more.. I am supposed to accept speculation and trial balloons or I am naive

[Palmer Eldritch]

18. "Either believe like we do or you're stupid/paid agent" seems to be the trending motif.

How many trial balloons will there be???
It's laughable.

[woo me with science]

23. Yet you conveniently ignore what Pelosi said....

:eyes:

[Zenlitened]

59. A trial balloon does not require a direct quote. In fact...

... it really wouldn't be a trial balloon with one. It would be a policy proposal.

This insistence on a quote suggests a degree of naivete, IMO. If this was indeed a trial balloon, then the process worked exactly as it should: the idea was floated, it was shot down, and the President never had to attach his name to it.

All very pragmatic. All very practical. And all in keeping with the *reality* of the way things have been done for a long, long time.

Pragmatism. Practicality. Realism. Aren't these the very qualities Pres. Obama's most ardent supporters claim to possess? And which they claim the more measured supporters are lacking?

[Palmer Eldritch]

10. "Trial Balloon" has been the excuse every time Obama hasn't cut SS

Sorry, but we don't believe the boys and girls who call "Trial Balloon" anymore.

[woo me with science]

24. Notice you didn't comment on Pelosi. nt

[Palmer Eldritch]

43. Did Pelosi actually say something about cutting SS benefits?

[woo me with science]

44. She confirmed that chained CPI is still on the table,

which would, indeed, mean quite significant reductions in projected benefits.

Lotta threads about that around here.

[Palmer Eldritch]

45. No, she just said that it wasn't a benefit cut. Quit bending her words.

And from another article she said it wasn't likely to happen.
You just choose to ignore that because ot doesn't fit your frame.

[woo me with science]

51. Reading comprehension:

"But she reiterated that any savings from changing the CPI would have to go back to the Social Security Trust Fund."

So it's not on the table, but she's laying out conditions for it anyway. That rascal! :eyes:


p.s. I believe this stage of the dance has passed, anyway. We are currently in a shift from denying the policy will ever happen to arguing that it's really not so bad. You might want to double check...


Bye. :hi:

[robinlynne]

83. right you are....

[robinlynne]

82. The press secretary also said the cuts would not be benefit cuts. Which means Obama plans to make

cuts.

[spin]

15. Looks like the people who are on Social Security are going to get screwed ...

On Using the Chained CPI for Social Security Cost of Living Adjustments
by Dean Baker

There has been considerable discussion of basing the Social Security cost of living adjustment (COLA) on the Chained Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (C-CPI-U) as a "painless" way of generating large budget savings. This view reflects serious confusion about what the switch to the C-CPI-U involves. (The switch would also lead to higher tax revenue by slowing the rise in the bracket cutoffs.)

While it is often claimed that this switch will make the COLA more accurate, this is not clear. What is certain is that the switch would lower benefits. The research on the C-CPI-U shows that the switch would reduce benefits by roughly 0.3 percentage points a year compared with the baseline. This means that after someone has been retired for 10 years, their benefits would be 3 percent lower. After 20 years of retirement, their benefits would be 6 percent lower and people living into their 90s and collecting benefits for more than 30 years would see a drop in benefits of more than 9 percent. This might be especially difficult since the oldest of the elderly also tend to be the poorest.

***snip***

It is also worth noting that there is no basis for the claim that the C-CPI-U would provide a more accurate COLA for Social Security beneficiaries. The Bureau of Labor Statistics' (BLS) Experimental Price Index for the Elderly has consistently shown a somewhat higher rate of inflation for the elderly population.

If the concern is accuracy, then the route should be to have the BLS construct a full elderly index that could take account of actual purchase substitution patterns among elderly consumers. Simply switching to the C-CPI-U without undertaking this research is consistent with a desire to cut Social Security, not to make the COLA more accurate.
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/baker080711.html

I guess the rich will continue to get the big tax breaks and special exemptions they have grown accustomed to as they are the job creators. Maybe we should stop asking Obama where the jobs are and instead ask the rich.

[Palmer Eldritch]

17. The 'facts' in that article are highly questionable.

[emulatorloo]

21. Pelosi Reassures House Democrats Inflation Measure Switch Not Likely

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201107081505dowjonesdjonline000464&title=pelosi-reassures-house-democrats-inflation-measure-switch-not-likely

Pelosi Reassures House Democrats Inflation Measure Switch Not Likely

By Kristina Peterson and Corey Boles, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) reassured angry House Democrats that a proposal to change a key measure of inflation linked to Social Security was not likely to be part of a debt ceiling deal, lawmakers said Friday.

Pelosi calmed Democrats upset over a proposal to change how the Consumer Price Index is calculated that would curb Social Security benefits, dimming the prospects of an idea once floated as an area of bipartisan support.

"She basically reassured the group that there's no way it's going to happen," said Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.), following a Friday afternoon meeting of House Democrats in the basement of the Capitol building. "After this, I do not think reducing the CPI in any way is a viable option."

===

I have a feeling Pelosi is more knowledgeable about what is going on in the negotiation than the author of that Opinion Piece.

[woo me with science]

25. You left the date off that.

Check the dates of her two statements, grasshopper.

[emulatorloo]

27. oops yesterday July 8th, 2011. My mistake, dragonfly!

you got something newer?

[woo me with science]

30. Uh huh. July 8, update published approximately 5pm.

Yours is from earlier in the day.

You really shouldn't say you checked, when you didn't.

[emulatorloo]

75. ???? What exactly did I say I "checked"?

Don't beleive I said I "checked" anything, and I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "check".

I simply forgot to copy the date when I copied the article and link.

I asked you an honest question about an update from Pelosi you seem to know about.

Instead of providing me with the latest info, you've manufactured some nefarious conspiracy out of a mistake in copy/paste and me asking you for the latest info.

So if you have information where Pelosi takes back what she said to Barney Frank, please share it.

[woo me with science]

76. C'mon, emulatorloo.

Have you read the thread? Note this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=705363&mesg_id=705511

She not only has acknowledged that chained CPI is on the table, she
went on record yesterday afternoon discussing her potential "line in the sand" conditions for implementing it:

"But she reiterated that any savings from changing the CPI would have to go back to the Social Security Trust Fund." (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20077942-503544.html)

In summary, well after the hearsay reports of the conversation with Barney Frank, she is on record discussing possible terms for implementation of this policy that supposedly isn't even on the table.


Take care, emulatorloo.

[polmaven]

20. So you can point to an actual

quote from the president that says what the article says he wants to do, right? Pleas post a link saying "Prsident Obama said '________'"

[spin]

32. My comment was ...

Maybe we should stop asking Obama where the jobs are and instead ask the rich.

The comment was based on the constant comments I hear from Republicans asking Obama where the jobs are while stating that increasing taxes on the rich in order to pay for social programs will cause further job losses as "the rich are the job creators."

The rich and the big corporations are tightly holding on to their money with their grubby little paws and insisting on the continuance of their tax breaks and exemptions while proposing that the poor and possibly the retired receive less funding in order to reduce the federal budget deficit.

Unfortunately it looks like the Congress, many of whose members are bought and owned by the big corporations, will continue to insure the rich get the breaks and the "little people" get the shaft.

[polmaven]

35. Your original comment was:

Looks like the people who are on Social Security are going to get screwed ...and you based that on an article written by Dean Baker which had nothing subtantial to back it up. I asked for a quote from President Obama to substantiate it. You apparently cannot give us one.

[spin]

41. Where in that comment did I mention Obama?

Although there are rumors that he will favor cuts to Social Security.

Obama proposes cuts to Social Security
July 7, 2011 7:32 AM

President Obama has said he wants to use a looming deadline over raising the amount Congress is allowed to borrow to work a deal with Republicans on something "big."

And now he plans to propose changes to Social Security as part of that "grand bargain," which he hopes will reduce government red ink by as much as $4 trillion over the next decade, Democratic sources familiar with the talks tell CBS News.

***snip***

The administration would only agree to cuts to Social Security benefits in exchange for reducing some eliminating some tax breaks that benefit the wealthy and certain industries, including oil and gas firms.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20077452-503544.html

It is quite possible that in order to broker a deal. Obama may go along with reducing benefits and he may well suggest something like the chained CPI for Social Security cost of living adjustments mentioned in the article. In that case my statement "Looks like the people who are on Social Security are going to get screwed" might prove accurate.

Obama has made some decisions that have disappointed me and many other Democrats in the past. One was his decision to extend the Bush tax cuts.

[polmaven]

49. Are you trying to say

that article by Dean Baker wasn't aboutthe very same rumors you just cited????

And, you do know that the president's decision to extend the cuts for 2 years was in exchangwe for the Republicans agreeing to extend UI benefits, right? I am one of those who would likely, today, have lost my home and be on the streets if he had not done that. I am very grateful to him for doing something he likey did not like doing in order to help those who needed it.

[spin]

67. Well I am glad you were able to keep your house ...

that is a positive story for a change. Unfortunately, lots of people lost their homes in the last two years.

I guess we will have to wait to see what he proposes. I can always hope that things will work out well.

[TomClash]

19. From CBS News

As for the differences that divide Democrats and Republicans, the GOP has so far resisted calls to raise tax revenues by closing certain tax loopholes and raise taxes on the highest-earning Americans. Democrats, meanwhile, are upset that Mr. Obama is open to possibly cutting Social Security as part of the deal. Carney said today that the president is interested in reforming Social Security in a way that "preserves the integrity of the program and doesn't slash benefits."

When pressed by a reporter about the term "slash," Carney acknowledged that it refers to significant cuts. When pressed further about whether that means the president is opposed to "cutting" or "slashing" Social Security, Carney said, "It's slash."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20077617-503544.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Carney speaks for the President. This means there will be cuts, but they won't be significant - at least to the President.

[bemildred]

22. What is one to think "on the table" means?

It's a surgical metaphor, yes? Surgery involves cutting?

Social Security on the table in debt limit talks

http://www.pri.org/politics-society/government/social-security-on-the-table-in-debt-limit-talks-4807.html

[emulatorloo]

31. Raising taxes and closing coporate loopholes are "on the table" too

Not so sure on the table is a surgical metaphor.

On the table = on the negotiating table.

[bemildred]

50. Everything is on the table, eh?

What does that mean?

[johnaries]

81. it means this:

"But it also remains true, as he made clear in the State of the Union, that he is willing to and thinks it’s important to talk about the long-term strength of Social Security. And it is also true, as he has made clear -- and the Vice President and others -- that they have created an atmosphere -- or tried to -- an environment, in the negotiations that they’ve had where everybody, every participant, feels that he or she can bring to the room issues that they think are important. And that’s what we mean by -- when we say everything is on the table. But it does not mean that the President’s position has changed at all." - WH Press Briefing, 7/7/11

[Hawkowl]

26. Whatever

You can't take criticism.

[Fire1]

That's what 'losers' usually say. n/t

[emulatorloo]

29. is that a version of "Don't confuse me with the Facts?"

[Fire1]

28. Conjecture can't be proven. And that's all they've got. n/t

[blue neen]

33. Oh, for the days when the Washington Post was committed to accurate reporting.

An actual quote was considered a thing of value.

[JoePhilly]

34. Watch how Obama blinks when he makes a speech ... he's announcing the cuts using morse code.

But you have to look really hard to see it.

[polmaven]

36. LOL!

I knew there must be something! You have probably NAILED it! :rofl:

[Swede]

37. And he's only pretending to be left handed.

:shrug:

[robinlynne]

38. I saw his press secretary on tv saying the cuts are not definite yet.

dont recall the eact woridng. but it was quite clear that the cuts are "on the table".

[jenmito]

46. He said they're allowing everything to be on the table, meaning that anyone

can bring their ideas to the table, including Paul Ryan's plan, but that doesn't mean they'll be ACCEPTED. He just doesn't want to look closed-minded like the Repubs.

[Palmer Eldritch]

47. You really should get the wording right. If you are going to post it as fact.

[Fire1]

56. They're doing what they do best!! Make up shit and try to sell

it as fact.

[robinlynne]

78. I don't remember the wording, but it is easily findable online I'm sure.

I think he said the cuts Obama was planning to make to social security would not affect current benefits, something like that.

[Raine1967]

52. Sorry, Peacetrain. What you are looking for is not to be found.

He hasn't said this, so that eliminated the 'Where' portion of your question.

[drm604]

53. Thank you.

I've tried to say this on here and been attacked and accused of "posting on behalf of the administration".

The whole "trial balloon" nonsense has no basis. Certainly it's possible, but just because something is possible doesn't mean it's happening.

I sometimes think that if I posted a thread claiming that Obama eats babies for breakfast it would end up on the front page with hundreds of responses calling for his head and anyone asking for a cite would be accused of being a cannibal.

[Pisces]

54. Peacetrain, certain people don't need facts to yell "Fire" in the theater. They revel in the false

stampede to the exit door. Let those trampled be damned, they get their kicks from rumor and hyperbole.

I keep wondering when a democratic site is going to stop bashing the nominee and stop trying to suppress voter turnout.

[polichick]

55. I guess it's okay with you that the prez has strengthened the Republican lie...

...that social security is even part of the problem.

[Fire1]

57. You gotta link or is this more bullshit. n/t

[polichick]

58. You need a link to figure out that putting social security on the table amid deficit talks...

...implies that it's part of the problem.

Think for yourself, man!

[Fire1]

60. You say that President Obama has "strengthened the

republican lie that SS is the problem." How so? Where is the link to confirm that he has strengthened this lie?? There may ultimately be some adjustments or reformation in social security benefits some day as a result of the overwheming numbers in my generation. However, I know that those changes, whatever they may be, won't affect ME!! You're so right. I AM THINKING FOR MYSELF!!

[polichick]

62. The lie is that social security contributes to the deficit - it does not...

By putting it on the table during deficit talks, the prez has given that lie credibility - the same way he gives their economic lies credibility when he repeats them.

[Fire1]

63. That's not giving it credibility. It IS using ss as leverage. n/t

[bemildred]

68. Use something else as "leverage". nt

[Fire1]

77. Nothing else appeals to republicans as much, I'd imagine. n/t

[Palmer Eldritch]

64. Making up facts is not thinking for yourself. It's called delusion.

[polichick]

65. What has been made up?

[bemildred]

66. Good for you,I didn't think you could face up to it.

Now to get some help!
:thumbsup:

[Palmer Eldritch]

70. "Obama will cut SS" is pure fiction. I don't believe it. Do you?

[bemildred]

74. You bet I do, I'm sure of it. nt

[sudopod]

61. LOL nt

[Whisp]

69. What I think happened...

Obama got a slight cut when he was being social at a benefit he and Michelle attended lately. (He cut himself on his sharp wit.) There was very little blood and or pain involved, but Security went all abuzz nonetheless.

so see.....

the words social, security and cut appear in this paragraph - so must be true, he wants to chop chop chop! that bastard!

:rofl:

fun times. so predictable the gnashing of teeth and frothing.

[Enrique]

71. he's not stupid n /t

[emulatorloo]

73. So if he doesn't say something, that indicates he is going to do the thing he hasn't said?

Very interesting.

[blkmusclmachine]

72. Ask again on Monday.

[rosesaylavee]

80. K&R

[MannyGoldstein]

84. He's playing a cute word game, saying he won't "slash" it:

This recent exchange was a hoot, when the press called him out on it:

Q So the inflation adjustment measure is off the table because it would slash benefits, right?

MR. CARNEY: I’m not going to talk about individual items about the President’s policy that he enunciated back in January.

Q Okay. And will eligibility age and other parts of Social Security be on the table?

MR. CARNEY: I’m not -- look, again, broadly, without addressing the specific question, the President and the Vice President created an environment in these negotiations where they have asked -- told everybody that they -- that there are no preconditions about what you can or can’t bring into the room and raise for discussion, on the presumption that you’re there in good faith to talk about issues that you think are important as part of this discussion.

So I don’t want to -- it does not behoove us to say something is on or off the table, something can or cannot come into the room. But what gets into the room doesn’t necessarily emerge from the room.

Q What does “slash” mean?

MR. CARNEY: Haven’t you got, like, a dictionary app on your iPhone?

Q Well, it’s a word that you use instead of “cut.”

MR. CARNEY: “Slash” is, I think, quite clear. It’s slash. It’s like that. (Laughter.) It’s a significant whack. (Laughter.)

Q So it means a significant --

MR. CARNEY: I’m not going to put a numerical figure on it.

Q So it means a significant cut.

MR. CARNEY: I think slashing is a pretty sharp, direct --

Q It’s not the same thing as cutting -- the point is, it’s not the same thing as “cut.”

MR. CARNEY: It’s slash. (Laughter.) And I don’t mean the guitarist. (Laughter.)

Q A pledge to not slash benefits is not the same thing as a pledge to not cut benefits.

MR. CARNEY: I’m not -- again, we’re talking about a policy enunciated by the President back in January, and that is --

Q This is a diction you guys have chosen.

MR. CARNEY: No, no, I get that, and we did choose it, and the President used it. But I’m not here to negotiate the semantics --

Q Just so everybody understands -- just so everybody understands, when you say “slash,” you don’t mean “cut.”

MR. CARNEY: We have said that to address the long-term solvency of the problem -- of the program, because this is not an issue that drives short- or medium-term deficits, that we would look -- the President is interested in looking at ways to strengthen the program and enhance its long-term solvency that protects the integrity of the program and doesn’t slash benefits.

Q Which is not the same thing as not cutting benefits.