Kerry statement in response to Howard Dean's call to insert Kerry provision in HCR bill

[beachmom]

First, here is the pertinent section in Dean's op-ed:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/16/AR2009121601906.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Improvements can still be made in the Senate, and I hope that Senate Democrats will work on this bill as it moves to conference. If lawmakers are interested in ensuring that government affordability credits are spent on health-care benefits rather than insurers' salaries, they need to require state-based exchanges, which act as prudent purchasers and select only the most efficient insurers. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) offered this amendment during the Finance Committee markup, and Democrats should include it in the final legislation. A stripped-down version of the current bill that included these provisions would be worth passing.

Ezra Klein has a very detailed response in his recent post including quotes from the actual language in the current bill. I suggest you read his article:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/too_much_hostage-taking.html

But Ezra Klein also picked up the phone and called Sen. Kerry's office to get his reaction to all of this. The response is purely on the issue, and very telling:

Don't believe me? In his op-ed, Dean names John Kerry as the senator who has been working hardest on this question. This morning, I spoke to Kerry's staff, who got me a statement from Kerry himself. "The prudent purchasing provisions in the Senate health bill will lower costs and increase affordable options for consumers," Kerry says. "It’s strong language that will allow the exchange to deliver competitive prices and offer high quality care, and I’m thrilled to see national reform honor the best innovations already succeeding in Massachusetts.”

So there is language in the bill that Howard Dean wants, but I guess not strong enough? Pretty dumb reason to want to kill the bill.

[madfloridian]

1. So don't kill the bill.

Just ignore those speaking out against it and let it go through...

[beachmom]

2. Read the links. Dean is wrong. The language he wants is in the bill.

I am not "ignoring" him, just showing that his dire words are not the whole story. Ezra Klein actually cites the bill with page numbers. I trust him over the vague op-ed Dean wrote.

[Better Believe It]

30. I missed that! Where is the language for a public option and/or Medicare at 55? Links please!

[karynnj]

50. The Boston Globe covered that it was in on November 21

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/11/21/senate_bill_keeps_a_place_for_mass_connector

In MA, they knew this saved people 6%, so it was newsworthy. So, as you said, Klein gave the page in the bill and the BG reported on it. It looks like Dean did not carefully read the bill he condemned.

[mzmolly]

3. I'll give this a K and R. Why doesn't Kerry pick up the phone and call Dean?

Why doesn't the WH? Someone should hear him out and let him know if his concerns are effectively addressed.

[beachmom]

4. I agree that the war between Dean & the WH is pointless.

But I fear Dean has gone beyond the point of no return.

[mzmolly]

5. I think Lieberman has reached that point and Dean is doing us all a favor,

we just don't know it yet.

[beachmom]

10. Well, I agree that Lieberman is a full out egotist and has betrayed progressives

countless times. However, without his vote the bill dies. If Dean is being constructive, then that's fine. But he is saying kill the bill. And that is wrong.

[mzmolly]

22. It's tough to know what is more wrong though? Mandates? Charging people

with illness three times more for health insurance?

I'm honestly on the fence at this point. I'm trying to hear everyone out.

[blm]

6. Kerry's been in Copenhagen, speaking to conference and other leaders on climate change.

I don't think there is a problem in what Dean is saying, he agrees with Kerry's addition to the bill. I expect when he reads the exact language in the bill addressing his concern he'll be satisfied - at least with THAT aspect.

I don't see any real distance on this.

[mzmolly]

7. I just wish people would talk before

letting egos dictate our collective future. Not speaking about Kerry per se, but about everyone involved.

[blm]

9. true - I actually see Dean's piece as favoring Kerry's language and that its inclusion strengthens

the bill from his point of view.

I think Klein may be the one pushing for distance - we don't how he offered up his questions to JK's office.

[beachmom]

12. At this late stage, let's be blunt: Kerry wants this bill passed & Dean doesn't.

But Kerry is not a point person on HCR, and he sure as hell doesn't want to get into any kind of conflict on this. But read between the lines: Kerry is pleased with the language on the issue at hand. Dean is not. I am sure Kerry would agree with Dean that even stronger language would be better. But Kerry has not said that publicly which at this point is all that matters. Kerry will be voting for the bill. Dean wants the bill killed without changes that he states in his op-ed.

[mzmolly]

19. Perhaps the conversation

I suggested would be helpful?

I don't know. I haven't read Dean's OP yet, I'm about to. :hi:

[blm]

21. Of course Kerry is invested in Obama's success - he wants a perception of a strong president

with a major legislative success going into the NEXT debate on climate change. Not to mention his role as commander-in-chief. If Obama gets labeled weak in an irreversible way, then, that perception will also have consequences on global matters and events and he IS our president for at least the next 3years.

I understand Kerry's willingness to settle for what CAN be had - Kennedy would have done the same, and for the same reason, and would continue to press for improvements down the road.

Dean and Kerry are pretty much on the same page, but, Kerry has a whole plate of legislative issues he needs to consider and he needs to find success where he can for other matters and to keep Obama in a position of strength as a PRESIDENT. Though, I must say, Obama could certainly do a lot more of his OWN heavy lifting than he does in that regard.

Dean isn't burdened in that same way...overall, I think Dean is doing fine by staying out front and leading with his chin on this - he still has very valid issues on this bill to keep in the public debate. Why should the corporatist Dems get ALL the airtime? After all, the issue is still being debated publicly, isn't it?

[beachmom]

24. What upsets me is how he is going about this.

He actually isn't attacking the bill from the Left, nor is Kos. Their beef is with the mandate, which is a Libertarian argument, and for which all their arguments would have worked against the public option bill as well. His problem with toughening regulation language is more doable than demanding the mandate be dropped. I think hcr may be doomed. And I just feel differently than a lot of people. It dies now, it will NOT come back in my lifetime (or at least not until after I am already on Medicare, if it still exists).

[burning rain]

28. You could be more precise in one place.

Their beef is with the mandate, which is a Libertarian argument

From a lefty viewpoint, libertarians are correct (1) when they come down on the side of citizens, wrong (2) when they advocate for corporate prerogatives and the rule of property as opposed to citizens (democracy). Opposing an individual mandate that would make citizens captives of private insurance is a case of (1): libertarian and lefty positions converge here, a rare area in the current health care debate that they do. The public option is a different matter: a lefty should support it, a libertarian oppose it. Further, public option makes it possible for lefties to support an individual mandate, but not libertarians. Both the lefty and the libertarian concern themselves with the individual: the lefty as a citizen, the libertarian as an individual property holder.

[paulk]

29. his beef is a mandate without a public option

or at least a medicare buy in

that's how I understand it, anyway.

I don't see that as a libertarian argument

[karynnj]

53. Kerry?

If there is anyone who is not letting ego dictate action here, it is Kerry. Kerry has quietly gotten some of the better provisions into this bill - yet it is not Kerry, who the media would list if asked for the 10 Senators who are most important on this>

Here are his contributions:
- the provision Dean likes
- reinsurance of catastrophic costs, which is essential to getting rid of the pre-existing illness provisions
- the Cadillac tax - though Kerry wanted a $25,000 threshold that he had union agreement with
- the provision that makes cost for women equal to men

I could see if you said Lieberman or Dean, but it is completely ridiculous in Kerry's case. DEAN WAS WRONG ON WHAT WAS IN THE BILL. Kerry fought for a provision Dean wants and was successful getting it in.

[mzmolly]

62. I am not suggesting Kerry is allowing his ego to dictate

any of his actions in regard to health care. Sorry for the confusing statement on my part. :hi:

[karynnj]

63. Thanks, I was rather mystified,

:hi:

[wisteria]

33. That is the way I see it too. n/t

[quiller4]

32. He did and Dean still didn't back off even though Kerry told him he was wrong.

[Mass]

35. Where do you see this? As far as I can read, Klein asked a question to Kerry staff and he issued a

statement. We have no idea what Klein's question was. Except if you have some inside information, it is a little hard to know.

[otohara]

48. Good Idea - Dean Can Ask Why Kerry Voted NO on RX

importation bill yesterday?

No doubt it's the same lame excuse my senator gave...."safety" - it's okay if we drive their cars, eat their food, play with their toys, but get some perfectly safe RX's from Canada.... Well that's just not acceptable. American's SCREWED - Big Pharma - happy days.

[karynnj]

54. More likely the reason Rockefeller gave when it was first discussed - it was a poison pill

Passing it in the health care bill would kill the healthcare bill. Kerry and Rockefeller were sponsors of 2 Dorgan bills this year on this - the latest was in June. MANY other liberal Senators who sponsored Dorgan's bill voted against it as an amendment.

Here's an interesting idea. AFTER healthcare is passed and signed, have Dorgan introduce the bill as stand alone legislation - he has 31 sponsored for the June 2009 version of the bill. It has bipartisan support and it would be hard to vote against as a simple stand alone bill in an election year.

Better yet - as this is re-importation - ie many pills are made here, sent to Canada and brought back, maybe they can try a bill that says when you have a monopoly, which they do on drugs under patent, maybe they should be limited to charging no more or only a small mark up here versus what they charge out of country. It is completely reasonable to regulate monopolies.

Does it make sense that they sell the pill in Canada that was made in the US and sent there for less than the same pill in the city it was made in?

[karynnj]

52. It may well be that Kerry will

Kerry may not have known that Dean did not know that the provision made the bill. The fact is the Boston Globe did report on it, so Dean really should have known it was in there. Until Dean wrote the oped, there was no reason that Kerry's staff (or Kerry) would know that Dean was misinformed.

I do think that Kerry would be a good person to meet with Dean and explain what is in the bill and the realities of the Senate process that a 5th term Senator knows extremely well. If Kerry could persuade Kharzi, he might be able to convince Dean. From all accounts the reason for Kerry's success there was he patiently listened, respected him and led him to see what the best forward was. Dean deserves that kind of respect from someone - rather than snark from Gibbs. (A call from Obama might be preferable)

[madfloridian]

8. I think they should pass the bill, include Ben Nelson's anti-abortion

amendment...and just see how it flies.

They will have to pass it now since their arch opponent has spoken up and the WH mouthpiece Ezra is on the roll now.

They are going to nitpick away at anything now.

Let them pass it. Let Ben and Joe have their way.

[beachmom]

14. I have noticed that those who do not agree with Ezra Klein call him a "WH" hack or the like.

Why not look at what he wrote and claim that he just made up the language and that it isn't really in the bill.

[madfloridian]

15. Both Kos and Jed are questioning his "facts" on front page Kos

right now.

So it ain't just me. He's pretty obvious.

[beachmom]

17. I guess it goes to who you trust. The same people for mandates

with a weak toothless P.O. are now against mandates. That makes me distrust them. Ezra Klein was always for mandates, even throughout the '08 primary war (and I supported Barack Obama).

Edit: actually I just checked Kos, and that is on a different topic. So no, they haven't gone after Klein on this Kerry provision.

[karynnj]

55. Did the Boston Globe make it up nearly a month ago too

when they wrote of it being in the bill - before Dean incorrectly said it wasn't. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/11/21/senate_bill_keeps_a_place_for_mass_connector

[SIMPLYB1980]

11. So Dean is lying? Or doesn't know these facts?

[beachmom]

13. No, it is a difference in opinion. He demands the bill contain the exact

language Kerry wanted in it originally, instead of the language that is in there now, that still does much of what the original language stated and for which Kerry supports. I do not understand why Howard Dean would oppose the bill on these grounds (or would support it if it was inserted which would not change much about the bill).

[timeforpeace]

44. Or is Kerry lying or doesn't know the facts, being out of the country for a while and all.

[karynnj]

49. Kerry spent something like 24 hours out of the country and he KNOWS that something he fought for is

in the bill. If you watched the hearings in the Finance committee this September, you would have heard Kerry make a strong case for its conclusion - pointing out that it saved MA people 6% on their premiums.

Kerry has never been one to lie - and he certainly would not claim something was in the bill that wasn't.

Here is a link to the Boston Globe's coverage of it being in the bill - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=273&topic_id=161456 Note the date November 21. The BG knew it was in the bill then. Maybe it is DEAN who doesn't know the facts.

Kerry has been to Copenhagen and it was good he went as he and Gore are the strongest American voices on this - the President's is more significant of course, but without the push from Kerry and Gore, it is not clear that he would even be going. As to going to Afghanistan and Pakistan, he clearly has been helpful.

BUT, in spite of that, on Dean's issue - the cost of premiums, it might be that no one did more than Senator Kerry. From the Finance committee discussions, Kerry's reinsurance for catastropic costs("The best idea of 2004" according to health care people) was added to the Finance Chair's original bill, the Cadillac health care tax (although withg a 23% rather than a 25% threshold) was included and this was added in Reid's bill. These are the three strongest forces to cut the cost of the premiums left in the bill. All originally Kerry's (unless you want to credit Bradley for wanting the Cadillac healthcare tax in 1993 (with Kerry).)

[karynnj]

56. I would say he is wrong on that fact

I hate when people say "lie", especially on something like this. It is entirely unlikely that Dean intentionally was wrong on this because it is extremely easy for people like Klein to show that he is wrong.

[Mass]

16. What was the question asked to Kerry by Klein? Because Klein certainly do not tell us what it was.

[Armstead]

18. It;'s one of many reasons -- Dean was on board until it became too rotten to swallow

Dean was a "team player" and on board until very recently. There was much he did not like, some he did, but he was supporting it as a good start until very recently.

He changed his stance after they removed the very weak compromise of allowing a somewhat larger portion of the population to buy into Medicare. When they gutted that to placate Lieberman, I think it was the straw that broke the back for his support.

The "blame Dean" movement ought to recognize that the fact that he has put himself on the line against the current version says more about how badly the bill has been prostituted than it does about Dean.

[Better Believe It]

20. John Kerry voted AGAINST the amendment to allow the importation of cheaper drugs from Canada!

That hardly makes him a strong supporter of meaningful universal health care reform.

Senator Kerry is also a member of the New Democrat Coalition which is the Senatorial affiliate of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC).

Senator Kerry supports the Leiberman Health Insurance Industry and Big Pharma Protection Act.

Is anyone who has followed Kerry's political evolution to the right really surprised?

----------------------------------

The Senate New Democrat Coalition was founded in the spring of 2000 by Senators Evan Bayh (Indiana), Bob Graham (Florida), Mary Landrieu (Louisiana), Joe Lieberman (Connecticut), and Blanche Lincoln (Arkansas).<2>

The following Senators belong or belonged to the Senate New Democrat Coalition.
Current senators

Blanche Lincoln (AR, founder)
Dianne Feinstein (CA, by 2001)
Thomas R. Carper (DE, by 2001; co-chair from 2003)
Joe Lieberman (CT, founder)
Bill Nelson (FL, by 2001)
Evan Bayh (IN, founder)
Mary Landrieu (LA, founder, co-chair from 2003)
John Kerry (MA, from 2000)
Debbie Stabenow (MI, by 2001)
Kent Conrad (ND, from 2000)
Ben Nelson (NE, by 2001)
Tim Johnson (SD, from 2000)
Maria Cantwell (WA, by 2001)
Herb Kohl (WI, from 2000)

[BlueIdaho]

23. In the bag...

He was not alone - and the list of senators that rolled over should not be forgotten. Big Pharma and the Insurance cartel are spending billions of dollars because they know what's at stake. Turn up the heat on the White House and congress - let them know you won't be there for them when they come calling in 2010 and 2012 unless they start doing the people's business.

When any nationally elected Democratic office holder emails you - take the opportunity to take your name off their email list. If they send you a letter asking for money - send the postage paid return envelope back to them empty. Get their attention.

[Better Believe It]

26. You're right. 30 Democratic Senators voted with big Pharma/Republicans and against us.

[beachmom]

25. I am not going to defend that vote, but condemning Kerry as DLC is BS.

He was one of the strongest proponents of the public option on the Finance committee and in the Senate.

[Better Believe It]

27. John Kerry is a member of the Senate affiliate of the DLC. Are you claiming he isn't?

He most certainly is a member of the Senate New Democrat Coalition which was organized by the DLC.

Do you want proof?

[beachmom]

31. He was in it in the '90s, as were many Democrats. But he clearly is a liberal in the Senate.

Check his voting record.

[Better Believe It]

41. Senator Kerry joined the DLC's New Democratic Coalition in 2000 and remains a current member.

The Senate New Democrat Coalition was founded in the spring of 2000 by Senators Evan Bayh (Indiana), Bob Graham (Florida), Mary Landrieu (Louisiana), Joe Lieberman (Connecticut), and Blanche Lincoln (Arkansas).

The Senate New Democrat Coalition counted 21 members in the Senate in August 2002, 15 of whom remain in the Senate as of the beginning of the 111th Congress. (The Congress currently in session)

Current senators

Blanche Lincoln (AR, founder)
Dianne Feinstein (CA, by 2001)
Thomas R. Carper (DE, by 2001; co-chair from 2003)
Joe Lieberman (CT, founder)
Bill Nelson (FL, by 2001)
Evan Bayh (IN, founder)
Mary Landrieu (LA, founder, co-chair from 2003)
John Kerry (MA, from 2000)
Debbie Stabenow (MI, by 2001)
Kent Conrad (ND, from 2000)
Ben Nelson (NE, by 2001)
Tim Johnson (SD, from 2000)
Maria Cantwell (WA, by 2001)
Herb Kohl (WI, from 2000)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrat_Coalition

[ProSense]

46. Still peddling that bogus list, huh? John Kerry has never been a member of the DLC

Kerry is one of the more progressive Democrats in the Senate.



Kerry's record speaks for itself.

[karynnj]

58. Do you understand English?

It says:
The Senate New Democrat Coalition counted 21 members in the Senate in August 2002, 15 of whom remain in the Senate as of the beginning of the 111th Congress. (The Congress currently in session)

This is a list FROM 2002 - which I believe is the last time they put one out.

They then say - 15 remain in the Senate.


NOWHERE DOES IT SAY THAT THEY ARE STILL IN IT.

Kerry was not listed by From in 2005 when he spoke of DLC members potentially running for President in 2008 - he listed Clinton, Bayh, Warner and Vilsack. At the time of the statement Kerry was polling more than Vilsack, Bayh and Warner put together. Explain his omission. Explain why Kerry did not attend a single DLC event after 2004. Explain why the DLC trashed Kerry/Feingold.

[whistler162]

59. If he deviates one iota from the rules then he is DLC!

no if and or buts! Understand! If you don't then you are DLC

In fact if you disagree with this post you are DLC!

Too many people trying to shove a label on anyone that disagrees with their point of view!

[wisteria]

34. I am certain there was good cause to vote against it. Things aren't always cut and dry. d/t

[Better Believe It]

42. Right. Those forin drugs are unsafe. Just ask big Pharma. Any more questions?

Here's Senator Kerry's justification for his vote:

_____________________________

Nough said!

[dionysus]

36. and BBIs crusade against dems rolls on...

:rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

37. They are gaining membership at MASSIVE levels.

The could be in the 10s by next month!

This place is going to be in taters!!

[dionysus]

38. !

:rofl:

"hell no, we won't vote! hell no, we won't vote!"

[karynnj]

57. That list is from the early part of the decade

They never update it or take people off. Kerry has not spoken at any of their meetings or been part of anything that they have done since 2004. Kerry never voted like the DLC even in 2000.

The fact is that the Dorgan amendment was a poison bill that would have killed the bill. Kerry was a sponsor of the Dorgan legislation in both Dorgan bills this year. (Rockefeler, another sponsor spoke of why he had to vote against it.)

The fact is that you have lied about JK constantly. You ignore that in teh Senate ONLY JK and Feingold did NOT endorse Lieberman in 2006 in the primary.

[Sebastian Doyle]

39. Geezus, some people are trying to bring back the 2004 primaries now?

Kerry vs Dean? Seriously, do you really want to go THERE? :wtf:

[uponit7771]

40. Yeap, this thing is gettin nasty

[beachmom]

43. Actually, no. The point is Dean favors a measure Kerry had fought for.

And Kerry seems to think the language is adequate. There seems to be no animosity between the two men. Kerry has not said an unkind word about Dean, and his office responded only because Klein asked.

[Sebastian Doyle]

45. Some here are trying to take Dean out of context regarding his op/ed in the post

He's endorsing Kerry's amendment, but Kerry's amendment is NOT part of the current bill. Had Kerry not been in Copenhagen, perhaps he might have been there to argue it, and maybe get it put back in, but that does not change the fact that the bill, as it now exists, is shit, and not worthy of support.

Could it be fixed in reconciliation? Maybe if Howard Dean was Senate Majority Leader. Or Russ Feingold. Or Bernie Sanders. Or maybe even John Kerry.

Unfortunately we're stuck with Spineless Harry Reid. So I'm not holding my breath. :(

[karynnj]

61. It is part of the bill per the Boston Globe of November 21, 2009

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/11/21/senate_bill_keeps_a_place_for_mass_connector

Kerry was in Copenhagen for ONE day and that was not discussed on that day.

The fact is that it is Dean who is wrong here.

[karynnj]

60. Huh? They are not against each other here

Dean praised a Kerry provision that he said was not in the bill and should be. Kerry, the bill, Erza Klein, the Boston Globe say it is in the bill.

This has nothing to do with either running for President. It has to do with the health care bill. Here, Kerry is a Senator, working from the inside to make it better - and Dean agrees with at least one thing he fought for. Dean is an outsider - he can not vote on this, but he is using his political capital to fight the passage of the bill.

[karynnj]

47. I think this means that Dean followed what got in the final bill less closely than the JK group did!

Here is a link that contains a BG article that that was put in and a link to a Prosense thread that explained what it was. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=273&topic_id=161456

The fact is that from the Finance committee discussions, Kerry's reinsurance for catastropic costs("The best idea of 2004" according to health care people), the Cadillac health care tax and this are the three strongest forces to cut the cost of the premiums left in the bill. All originally Kerry's (unless you want to credit Bradley for wanting the Cadillac healthcare tax in 1993 (with Kerry).)

Here is a link to Kerry speaking of the MA plan in the Senate - http://www.c-spanvideo.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=9072382

[Milo_Bloom]

51. Oh dear god, is this thread a joke?

What Dean said is that most of the bill is garbage and that democrats should that the couple of good things out of this bill and junk the rest (which is the vast majority of the bill) and pass that.

The response is that "the language Dean wants is already in the bill, therefor Dean is wrong".

Logic people.

"I would like a veggie sandwhich with avocado, lettuce, tomato and sprouts"

"Okay, here you go, one double bacon avocado cheese burger with lettuce, tomato and sprouts"

"No, those other things aren't good for me, I only want the avocado, lettuce tomato and sprouts"

"It's all or nothing"

"Forget the order"

"What an idiot, you were getting your avocado, tomato, lettuce and sprouts, how could you complain."