No matter what we think of Bradley Manning, this is unacceptable

[dsc]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/13/rep-kucinich-unable-to-visit-accused-wikileaks-source/

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) has been unable to visit with Private Bradley Manning, the U.S. soldier accused of leaking State Department cables to WikiLeaks, despite being a member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

"I put in a request to the secretary of defense, who referred me to the secretary of the army, who referred me to the secretary of the navy, who referred me to the secretary of defense, and still not an answer on whether or not I can visit Private Manning," Rep. Kucinich explained to Scott Horton of KPFK 90.7 FM Los Angeles on Friday.

end of quote

Dennis Kucinich is a lawfully elected, sitting member of Congress on a committee directly relevant to this issue. He has every duty and right to see what is going on. There is no excuse for this.

[TriMera]

1. Recommend. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

2. Is Manning one of his constituents?

It seems that would carry a bit more weight in this situation.

[dsc]

3. no but the committee upon which he sits has direct responsibility here

this is no different at all than stalling members of the defense oversight committee from visiting a munitions factory would be.

[truedelphi]

4. Thank you for bringing forth this information.

Very interesting times we live in.

[DeSwiss]

9. ....

"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee." ~John Donne, Devotions

[ReggieVeggie]

35. what the hell difference does that make?

If the congressmember in charge of agriculture wants to speak to some farmer, is there a requirement that the farmer be one of his constituents

[customerserviceguy]

42. Good analogy

But my question has a corollary: Why isn't Manning's congresscritter asking to visit with him?

[dsc]

44. Manning is from Oklahoma

I figure that should be enough of a reason.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Recommended. I want Kucinich to visit with Manning. nt

[Exilednight]

6. How are people unrecing this? This should be a concern of everyone.

[DeSwiss]

7. K&R

[northoftheborder]

8. this is not American; (Mannings detention and treatment)

[TorchTheWitch]

43. sure it is - we've been treating people like shit in prison for decades

Nothing new about that. Manning is hardly the only person in a US prison that's in solitary and treated just as harshly and he's probably getting better treatment than most.

Manning's treatment is SOP. Not the least bit unique. AT. ALL.

[ProSense]

10. Hmmm?

"'I put in a request to the secretary of defense, who referred me to the secretary of the army, who referred me to the secretary of the navy, who referred me to the secretary of defense, and still not an answer on whether or not I can visit Private Manning,'" Rep. Kucinich explained

Why can't Kucinich simply go visit him? Go with Manning's lawyers?

According to the Pentagon: "He receives visitors and mail, and can write letters. He routinely meets with doctors, as well as his attorney. He's allowed to make telephone calls."

[rug]

13. Useful Information . . .

Appointments for Inmates:

If an inmate has a scheduled appointment to legal, medical or dental, the Brig Programs Section needs to be contacted at least two days in advance to coordinate.

Command Visits:

Command visits are conducted on Thursdays between 0800 and 1600. In the event the Unit is not in the local area, i.e. overseas, another state, they can be conducted by phone. Alternate arrangements can be made to facilitate the Unit on another day if Thursday is not feasible. The Programs Section is the point of contact.

Information on Visitation:

An inmate’s family or loved ones may attend Visitation on weekends and holidays from 1200-1500. Extended visits may be approved on a case by case basis if the inmate requests it.

http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/activities/display.aspx?PID=588&Section=SECBN

[dsc]

14. He would, presumedly, have to be put on a list of approved visitors

even standard prisons run that way.

[ProSense]

15. What?

"He would, presumedly, have to be put on a list of approved visitors even standard prisons run that way."

What does that have to do with him simply going to visit? He's a member of Congress, and at the very least Manning's lawyers can take care of that.

Do you really know how standard prisons are run?

[dsc]

16. As an AA member I used to run AA meetings in prisons

and I have tutored students in juvie so I have some idea. I do know that you just can't show up and say may I see person X.

[ProSense]

17. Then you would

know the procedure for visiting a prisoner. It's not all that complicated, and it doesn't have to go through the President.

[dsc]

19. I didn't say it did

but it apparently does have to go through his appointees who are giving him the run around. That is inexcusable.

[ProSense]

20. Hmmmm?

"but it apparently does have to go through his appointees who are giving him the run around."

It absolutely does not. Just because Kucinich wrote to them doesn't mean that's the procedure.

He could get with Manning's lawyers if he wants to visit him.

[dsc]

21. No someone at that prison has to approve

no matter what his lawyers want. Otherwise, there would be defacto no restrictions upon visitors. This in indefensible.

[ProSense]

22. Here:

<...>

Information on Visitation:

An inmate’s family or loved ones may attend Visitation on weekends and holidays from 1200-1500. Extended visits may be approved on a case by case basis if the inmate requests it.

link

That's typical.

[dsc]

23. actually you should note that your link is family and loved ones

neither of which Kucinich would be.

[ProSense]

24. What?

Friends are loved ones. The determination of who visits is made by the inmate, not the prison.

A person a prisoner meets via any means of communication during incarceration can visit an inmate. That happens frequently.

[dsc]

25. No they aren't

trust me as a gay person I can give you chapter and verse about the difference between a 'friend' and a loved one. He is in prison for espienage, I would think that there would be the maximum amount of control on his visitors.

[ProSense]

29. Nonsense.

Prisoners are visted by girl/boy friends they meet on the Internet. They're visited by community groups and religious organizations.

You can't simply make up stuff to fit your narrative.

[dsc]

32. not when they are in restricted prisons

and again, I don't have a problem with restricting his visitors, I would have problems if they didn't. But I have a huge problem giving a Congressman the run around.

[ProSense]

33. "I have a huge problem giving a Congressman the run around"

What's with the circular argument?

Me: "It's not all that complicated, and it doesn't have to go through the President.

You: "I didn't say it did... but it apparently does have to go through his appointees who are giving him the run around. "

"It absolutely does not. Just because Kucinich wrote to them doesn't mean that's the procedure."

You: "No someone at that prison has to approve."

Go to the prison. Contact Manning's lawyers. A visitation request does not have to go through the President or his administration.

[pinto]

34. Sorry to step into this back and forth. There *is* a procedure that has to be completed.

I've worked in a state prison. It's a a long run of bureaucratic steps for non-family members. Just my 2 cents.

I'll step out now.

:hi:

[dsc]

37. which is what I said

but apparently Kucinich is being given a run around and he shouldn't be.

[pinto]

38. Yeah, agree. He's being brushed off.

:hi:

[ProSense]

39. I didn't say there wasn't a procedure

The fact is that non-family members can visit.

NYC prisons:

<...>

Visitors have to check visitation schedule to make sure their friend or family member is eligible for visits that day.

NUMBER OF VISITS AND VISITORS

Inmates are permitted to visit with up to three (3) visitors at the same time, with the maximum number to be determined by conditions set forth in each facility, availability of space, and volume of visitors/inmates. Detainees may receive visits three (3) times per week. Sentenced inmates may receive visits two (2) times per week. All inmates are limited to one visit session per visit day, regardless of the number of visitors in that session.

NEW VISITORS' IDENTIFICATION POLICY

• All visitors 16 years of age and older must present valid, current identification that contains a photograph and signature. Acceptable forms of identification for all visitors are listed below.
  
  
• Children under the age of 16 who are accompanied by an adult over 18 ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PRESENT ANY IDENTIFICATION AT ALL (including birth certificates.)
  
  
• A 16-year-old or 17-year-old with valid identification may accompany a child under the age of 16 if he or she is the parent of that child and the inmate being visited is also the parent of the same child. In this case, the 16-or 17-year-old must produce a birth certificate for the child.

<...>

[MNBrewer]

36. The determination of who visits is made by the inmate, not the prison???

Apparently not in this case.

[Smarmie Doofus]

31. Whoa, baby. Use a ---- next time. +1 nt

[Exilednight]

11. K&R and somehow this is only at +3

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. The mere mention of Manning's name....

.... turns a mere loose association of reality-refusniks into a furious stampeding herd.

Sumpthin' about that guy, I'm tellin ya.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueIris]

26. Agreed.

Sad and disturbing situation all around.

[vaberella]

27. Can you list the rules in regards to a situation like this?!

I need the full information. Because it seems military things are under a different set of rules.

[dsc]

28. He is in Congress and wants to see an institution that he has direct oversight of

that should be enough for him to see it. We would, with full justification, be raking any other President over the coals for this.

[Ikonoklast]

40. Why didn't Kucinich contact Manning's lawyers?

They could set up a meeting for him, but then, all the grandstanding by a legislator looking for some publicity wouldn't have been made public.

[dsc]

41. several things

First, he shouldn't have to and second, it likely wouldn't help. The fact is Manning has, for valid reason, a restriction upon his visitation. I have no problem with Kucinich having to get approval from the military to go there. I do have a problem with the run around he is apparently getting.

[polichick]

30. This gov't has lost its way BIG TIME. nt