Rumors via Twitter have the Secret Service in Madison. . .hmmmmm

[wndycty]

http://twitter.com/#!/ReInvent1self/status/38685176548704256

@ReInvent1self I can confirm that Secret Service has arrived in Madison. More updates soon. #killthisbill #wiunion #notmywi #solidarityWI

[Bluenorthwest]

1. Obama should visit, hope this suggests that he will

It is a political Hometown Buffet if you ask me, and I'd be running to that particular podium. Right now, Wisconsin has the power to wash away the gray, as it were....

[AtomicKitten]

2. hmmm indeed

interesing!

[tallahasseedem]

3. I swear...

if he shows up and supports the protesters I will bawl all night!

I don't think he will, but I can dream!

[Kweli4Real]

5. And the day (of) after his appearance ...

back here at DU, we'll be treated to a bunch of "Yeah but, he should'a said" and even more, "he gives good speeches ... I WANT ACTION" comments.

Not directed at you, but I tire of this crap.

[Dr Fate]

7. The people who are now saying the speech is a bad idea will pretend they were for it.

And yes- I beleive that DUers would want the hypothetical promises in this hypothetical speech to be followed with acts. Since when did that b/c an outrageous notion?

[tallahasseedem]

10. I agree...

There are a million reasons why he can't go (security being the biggest); I certainly will not begrudge him if he doesn't.

[Dr Fate]

11. You see a million reasons. I see a million excuses. n/t

n/t

[BklnDem75]

12. Which means nothing in the end

If only he could make you happy...

[Dr Fate]

15. I admit that it would make me happy if Obama did more to energize the party on this issue.

I realize that asking him to speak in front of his base is some real radical, outrageous, dangerous, far left stuff though.

So long as he keeps you happy and compells you to automatically agree with everything he does or does not do, then that is a positive thing, I guess!

[BklnDem75]

17. Actually, you're demanding it

No excuses, remember? Honestly, you're reading too much into my response. If he show's up, that's certainly great, but if he doesn't, it won't change anything either. Every issue is important and I don't expect Obama to pop in every time something flares up.

[Dr Fate]

18. If you say so. I'm "demanding" it. I'm fine with your sematics.

And I disagree that a speech followed by action would not change anything.

At the least, it would be a GOTV effort,and would inspire other protests & rallys that would also be GOTV successes. It's never too soon & 2012 will be here b/f we know it.

A speech followed by acts could inspire and rally law makers to support him in pledging to make some changes on the federal level, for after 2012 if that is the strategy.

"Will not change anything" is just another excuse among the millions. I'm one of those liberals who likes to TRY to work hard to change things b/f I throw up my hands and cry "But it wont change anything! I just know it! Why even try?" That is loser talk.

Actions do change things.

[BklnDem75]

19. Thanks for admitting...

the act of showing up and giving a speech won't change anything. The action is already happening but apparently that's not enough. No, it's the results that matter to you, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

[Dr Fate]

21. LOL! I said the exact opposite. I think Obama could inspire the base and even pass a pro-union law.

"The action is already happening but apparently that's not enough."

So unions will never be attacked on the state level in this manner again?

Did I miss the new Pro-Union Federal law that Obama & DEMS are pledging to support (at least by 2012?), no matter what?

I think there is plenty of room to claim that whatever "action is already happening" might not be enough to protect unions or fire up the base to kick ass for DEMS in 2012, and to even get the swing voters back. You did not even tell me what this "action" is.

[BklnDem75]

23. The law that will never pass?

No matter how much you ignore it, Pukes control the House. When you go to sleep, do you wake up in a world where Pukes care about Unions? They've hated Unions since the Union Army. No such law will pass this Congress without a huge concession. And you will hate it.

[Dr Fate]

24. Even in 2012, like I said twice? Can we cut the "no can do" loser talk?

It's never to early to start working, setting ground work, ginning up support & making some strong pledges now.

Of course it will never happen, even if 2012, if we dont start fighting even harder, right now.

And as a historical note, I know what you meant, but the Republican Party as it was called in the during the civil war was pro-Union army.

[BklnDem75]

25. Can we cut the 'only your issues are important' talk?

Perhaps there's more than one important issue on the President's plate that he can't cut away from at this time? Maybe we can just go back to what we use to do? You know... let him govern while we, the supporters, put up a strong front on local issues? Do we really need him for everything? Isn't that what the DNC is for?

[Dr Fate]

26. Sure. But this is a current event, not a "pet issue" that came out of nowhere.

First you suggested it was impossible for Obama to strengthen unions, now you adjust your excuse to say that we just need to leave Obama alone and let him govern.

Well, I think pledging to support unions in a speech in front of his base is one way to let him continuie to govern and win in 2012.

You really think a speech and some ground work for a 2012 pro union legislative push would hurt, or somehow distract him? Seems like it should be par for the course. We are Americans. We like hard work.

I agree that we, the supporters need to be on the ground- it's funny that you cant bring yourself to say that maybe the elected DEMS can help us out, show up, get on TV and get our backs. Again, do really think it would hurt?

[BklnDem75]

28. Do you actually read what I type?

You quote pet issues like it's something I said. And no, I didn't say it's impossible to strengthen unions. I suppose it's easier to argue when you make things up. Obama doesn't need to be present to pledge support to Unions. You're simply using it as an excuse to bash him. Now THAT's par for the course.

[Dr Fate]

30. I read where you said the law will never pass, then you said this was "your (my) issue"

Sorry if I thought we were talking about a law that would strengthen unions. It is what I was talking about. You seemed to suggest it would be impossible.

Also, I did not mean to say that "pet issue" was your exact quote- but I did mean that it was your indication. "Your issues" is what you actually said.

So my pointing out that he could do more is an excuse to bash him? Whateves. I have the right to BEG DEMS to fight for me.

Sure, he could pledge to strengthen unions w/o being there, but it would have more imact if he did. What could it hurt?

Funny, only at DU is it considered "bashing" when we BEG, BEG, BEG our elected DEMS to stand up and fight for us and the party.

What could it hurt?

[BklnDem75]

lol, because saying 'your issues' must mean 'pet issues, right?

It couldn't possibly mean your immediate issue. I understand...

While we're being honest, saying Pukes won't pass a pro-Union law giving them strength is not the same as saying it's impossible for Obama to strengthen Unions. You were proposing a Federal Law, right? It goes through Congress. It won't make it out alive. Is that the only way to strengthen Unions? Organizing has nothing to do with it? Hmmm...

You didn't beg and you didn't ask either. It was either/or and the result HAS to be a new law being passed. Anything short of that is a waste of time. Not the effort, the results. I'm pretty sure I call bashing what it is.

[Dr Fate]

33. I read it that way. Also, I said we shoot for 2012 at least twice, then you said it woud never pass.

I think if DEMS can get back to some populist roots and away from the failed centrism that caused the midterm losses, we can get back majorities in 2012.

"My" immediate issue? I thought it was a current event, and that unions across the nation were also concerned. I thought that politicians were supposed to repsond to current events. He is responding and yet I am begging for even more action, b/c I think it is needed.

LOL! I never said organization had nothing to do with it- I think a speech in WI with some hard promises would be a good way to kick it off and get even more people into organizing, campaigning, etc.

Either or? LOL! I wish. All I can do is BEG BEG and then BEG some more. Maybe they will listen, maybe not.

So any thing short of what I suggest is a waste of time? I never said that, I just said that we can and should do even more than anything we are doing now. I like working hard and I like DEMS who work as hard as I do.

You could be right- having a new law passed may not be the only good idea. I've done my best to answer your questions. Can you answer mine?

What is your alternate suggestion to a fed law? What keeps the WI style union busting from occuring again better than a federal law that guarantees union rights?

[BklnDem75]

36. I missed where you mentioned 2012

For that I apologize. To be honest, I'm not sure a law overriding agreements on the state and city level would stand should it manage to pass. The immediate problem is making sure these unions are on the same page. If cops and firefighters side with the governor it's going to be that much harder to have a united front. Right now, they're trying to divide Union members from ordinary tax payers... Actually, they've been doing it for years and the consensus is pretty bad, at least here in New York. It'll certainly help if Union Leadership and local and state Dems work towards killing that message.

There's no simple solution, so I won't pretend to have an answer to your question. Over here, the PBA is hitting the airwaves demonizing Bloomberg on local stations. It seems to be an effective strategy.

[Badfish]

20. Wait a few months.

Once some GOP bait jump into the race , the campaign Obama will eat em up.

The President will need to start an active campaign soon.

[Dr Fate]

22. The WH needs to start an active 2012 campaign now, as the GOP did even before the midterm.

I swear I've never seen so many Democrats argue AGAINST hard work, starting early, GOTV, ginning up the base, doing something slightly outside the box, etc.

It think some of these arguments against fighting the GOP exist b/c DUers KNOW Obama will not follow through, and they dont want to add to any dissent, not b/c DUers really think they are bad ideas.

If Obama DID go to WI, most of us here would be cheering him on, even the ones who currently claim it is a bad idea.

[Kweli4Real]

29. And what "action"

would that be?

[Dr Fate]

31. How about pledging to support federal laws that would strengthen unions....

...and then actually following through?

Make ths a national debate, get in any little victory we can and let the base see that DEMS are setting the ground work for passing tougher pro-union laws in 2012. How about coordinating other rallies, other protests (AKA GOTV) and twisting some arms via advance work to get all DEMS to support pro-union legislation by at least 2012? It seems this is being done on at least sone levels- so this is action we should welcome.

Impossible? Maybe, but I'd like to try b/f giving up or making excuses in advance. I think having Obama kick it off in WI, in front of his base certainly could not hurt, and it would only help.

I answered your question, Your turn. What actions would you suggest, in addition to what has alreay been done?

[tallahasseedem]

9. You know it!

I tire of it as well.

[Dr Fate]

13. It's true-those crazy, bleary-eyed Liberals like follow up action in addition to mere speeches.

How tiring and outrageous of them.

[WolfoftheWild]

4. Biden?

[Dr Fate]

8. That was one of my first thoughts. n/t

n/t

[Dr Fate]

6. If true, does that mean all the DUers who now oppose a WI speech will suddenly change their minds?

And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, it will be the most wonderful, "adult", "clear eyed", "centrist" idea they ever heard in their lives?

Remember- the anti-WI speech crowd here at DU does not get to have an "I told you so" moment if he does give a speech- b/c they argued against it being a good idea.

I have predicted that Obama will not give a speech in WI- if I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.

[bigwillq]

14. I want Obama to give a WI speech.

If he does, I will say thank you. Deal? :) :hi:

[Dr Fate]

16. Deal. n/t

n/t

[JI7]

35. i don't know anyone who opposes him giving a speech

but many know if he doesn't there are good reasons why and doesn't mean he isn't supporting them.

there are many speeches he could give to groups around country and all would be a good thing if it happened. if it doesn't it's not a bad thing .

it seems like you are just looking for an argument.

[YvonneCa]

27. OMG...

...:)

[DU GrovelBot]

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[OhioBlue]

34. hmmmm indeed. I do hope Pres O or VP Biden

make a symbolic stand with public Unions by attending a rally in WI.