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Tax Debate Timeline - How the Right wouldn't budge, and the Left Blamed one man!

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:25 PM
Original message
Tax Debate Timeline - How the Right wouldn't budge, and the Left Blamed one man!
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 04:58 PM by FrenchieCat
There has been a Progressive Democratic revolt against the Tax compromise that President Obama Proposed on December 6, 2010.

Many Congressional Democrats have maintained that the President didn't bother to discuss any of this with them, and that they were blindsided. They are angry, as are some of their Liberal Democratic Constituents, and in a Democratic Caucus, the Democrats voted down the compromised offered, and offered a few loud choice words to describe the President instead.

The congressional Democrats, operating from a position of disgust are mad as hell, and they have announced loudly on any television screen available, that they aren't going to take it anymore! They are calling the Compromise, a deal done with the Devil behind closed doors without true fighting type negotiation while giving away the store as the first bargaining position. They wanted Barack Obama to "Fight" to get rid of those odious tax cuts for the wealthy; regardless that these tax cuts were something that all Republicans, and some Democrats weren't budging on, period.

File and rank Democratic activists are even more red hot angry. Many have taken to calling the President a weak, arrogant, non skilled negotiating Republican-lite puppet for the GOP, needs-to be primaried, son of an pompous gun (actually worse names than that, but you get my drift)! Jokes depicting the President as a weak negotiator have been depicted everywhere in cartoons and late night entertainment.

As time continues to run out for anything to be done, some Democrats are in favor of allowing for the entire Bush Tax Cut lesgislation to expire. They indeed believe that whatever the 98% of working Americans would gain from extending Middle Class tax cuts and extending unemployment benefits just isn't worth it. They believe that compromise is not what one does when dealing with unreasonable assholes, aka, Republicans and conservative Democrats. And that sometimes just letting folks be hurt is the only way that same folks will realize what assholes those Republicans are.

So I decided to do some research into the timeline of the tax cut debate (below), in order to determine just what angry Democrats were going to do beyond allowing 98% of working Americans to suffer financially during a time of grave economy hardship in order to get the point accross that Republicans are bad for one's financial health (I'm not sure how that message would get accross to the general public, considering that the media works for the GOP, not for the Democrats, but oh, well!).

Of course, whatever it is that Democrats might decide to propose whenever they figure it out, would have to pass with enough votes in both houses of congress, cause congress ain't going away, and in fact, even more GOP assholes are scheduled to show up in January!

As of 1/1/2010 (in 22 days), Americans will start to wake up to what their tax bill is likely to look like without anything being done, and I just want to say, I don't want to be around, when that shit hits the election 2012 fan!
(here's some basic data on that: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Considering that as soon as the tax cuts for everyone expires, Pres. Obama can be said to have broken many promises of the "read my lips" kind, I think that we can understand that we are setting ourselves up for a possible Republican sweep in 2012 of all houses, and that we might as well talk a lot now, because come the day after the election, you can be certain that we could very well see the end of just about anything and everything that some of us hold dear. If You've still got a line in a sand, well, good luck with that then!





SO HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED -


April 28, 2010 - Last week the Senate Budget Committee passed a fiscal 2011 budget resolution that includes an increase in the top tax rate on dividends to 39.6% from the current 15%a 164% increase. This blows past the 20% rate that President Obama proposed in his 2011 budget and which his economic advisers promised on these.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703709804...


Jul 14, 2010- Senate Debate on Extending 2001/2003 Tax Cuts
The Senate Finance Committee conducted a hearing on July 14, 2010 to discuss the potential extension of tax cuts. In the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA) and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA), there were tax reductions for nearly all Americans. The tax reductions continue through 2010, but are set to be repealed on January 1, 2011.

The White House has proposed to extend these tax cuts for single persons with incomes under $200,000 ($250,000 for couples), but to increase the capital gain rate and top income tax brackets. Under the White House plan, the capital gain rate will increase from 15% to 20%, the 33% bracket increases to 36% and the 35% tax bracket is raised to 39.6%.

Senate Finance Chair Max Baucus (D-MT) opened the hearing by stating, "Americans are struggling to make ends meet, and we need to do all we can to put more money back in the hands of workers, middle-class families and small businesses so our economy can grow. I support extending the middle-class tax cuts permanently, as soon as possible, so working families can keep more of their hard-earned money."

Sen. Baucus and the White House are both advocating a permanent extension of the tax cuts for low and middle-income taxpayers, with an increase in taxes for those in the upper brackets.
http://www.lssmngift.org/washington.jsp?WebID=GL2005-04...



Jul 21, 2010 - Top Rates Will Increase Speaker Pelosi
Members of both Parties joined the debate this week on income taxes. Without action by Congress, all of the tax reductions in the 2001/2003 tax acts will be phased out on January 1, 2011.

The White House has steadfastly maintained that the reductions for lower and middle-income brackets should be retained, while the reductions for the top brackets must be phased out.

Under the White House proposal, individuals with incomes over $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples) would pay higher taxes. The top two brackets will increase to 36% and 39.6%. In addition, the White House proposes that the capital gains tax rate returns to 20%.

Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) has expressed concern about the increase in taxes on upper income individuals.
http://www.fwbgifts.org/washington.jsp?WebID=GL2003-008...



July 26, 2010 - Geithner and Reid Support Top Tax Rate Increases
On a national media program on July 25, 2010, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner emphasized that the Obama administration plans to increase the tax rates for the top two brackets.

When asked whether the 2001/2003 tax reductions should be extended for all brackets, Secretary Geithner stated, "I don't believe they should and I don't believe they will."

In the view of Secretary Geithner, the increase of the top two rates to 36% and 39.6% affects only "2% to 3% of Americans, the highest-earning Americans in the country." He suggested that the increased rates on top earners will not have a "negative effect on growth."
http://www.scfgifts.org/washington.jsp?WebID=GL2007-103...



August 3, 2010 -
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) stated on August 3rd that he hopes the House will act to extend the 2001/2003 tax cuts before adjourning on October 8, 2010. House Democrats generally agree with the White House proposal that tax cuts should be extended for individuals making less than $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples).

Speaking at a Washington conference this week, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner also emphasized the importance of extending the middle-class tax cuts and raising taxes for the top two brackets.

When asked whether the tax system should be modified this year,Sen. Conrad noted, "It is a losing strategy to try to rejigger the current tax code." He prefers to wait for a November proposal from the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform.
http://unmgift.org/?pageID=38&docID=588



August 6, 2010 - Do Democrats have a plan to extend Bush tax cuts?
Actually, President Obama has proposed formal plans to leave tax rates in place for the middle class while raising taxes on the wealthy -- for example, on pages 39 and 164 of his 2011 budget. We also re-capped Obama's history on tax increases.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/au... /



August 18th, 2010 - Obama says Republicans oppose strengthening the child care tax credit
Democrats want to make it easier for working parents to pay for child care, but congressional Republicans don't think that's a good idea, President Barack Obama told his audience in Columbus, Ohio, on Aug. 18, 2010.

Asked whether the government has done anything to reduce child care costs, Obama said, "We have a child care credit in place. Wed like to make it stronger. This is one of those back-and-forths weve been having with the Republicans, because we actually think it is a good idea and they dont. But I think that giving families support who have to work each and every day is absolutely critical."

Are Republican lawmakers really opposed to increasing the child care credit? We decided to look into it.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010... -/





August 26, 2010 - Is Obama Planning a Bush Tax Cut October Surprise?
There is a feeling in Washingtonperhaps even a fearthat President Barack Obama will, as an "October Surprise," call for legislation extending most but not all of the Bush tax cuts.

With the Republicans still hashing out their agenda for the fall, the thinking goes, a push to keep taxes from going up on all but the so-called "wealthiest Americans" will throw the GOP for a loop. A fall campaign based on class warfare, some Democrats believe, should bring out enough Obama voters to blunt the impact of the tide expected to swamp the majority in the upcoming congressional elections.
http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/201...




September 23, 2010 - Democrats delay vote on extending Bush tax cuts
Senate Democratic leaders decided Thursday to delay a vote on preserving soon-to-expire middle class tax cuts until after congressional elections in November.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2010/...




September 30, 2010 - Congress adjourns, but spending bills and Bush tax cuts still loom
Lawmakers head home to face voters in the midterm elections, putting off big decisions such as on extending the Bush tax cuts.

But what stands out as Congress breaks for the next six weeks is whats left undone. That includes all spending bills for the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1 and decisions on extending the so-called Bush tax cuts, now set to expire on Dec. 31.

Thirty-nine Democrats in the House and two in the Senate joined Republicans Wednesday in opposing motions to adjourn, citing the need to renew the tax cuts to assure business and the public that they will not incur big tax increases next year. In a floor speech, Republican leader John Boehner said that those members voting yes on the adjournment resolution were "putting their election above the needs of your constituents."

The list of Democrats opposing the adjournment includes many of the most vulnerable members heading into midterm elections, especially freshmen in seats formerly held by Republicans. In the end, Democrats adjourned the House with just one vote to spare, 210 to 209.

The tough adjournment vote was only the latest indicator of deepening divisions in Democratic ranks on tax and spending issues heading into midterm elections. This week 47 Democrats, led by Rep. John Adler (D) of New Jersey, called on Speaker Nancy Pelosi to extend the expiring 2003 Bush tax cuts on dividends and capital gains. Earlier this month, 31 Democrats called on Ms. Pelosi to extend the 2001 tax cuts for all income brackets, not just individuals earning less than $200,000 and families earning less than $250,000 a year. President Obama and House Democratic leadership have proposed those limits on a tax-cut extension.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0930/Congres...





October 4, 2010 - Pelosi Cuts Off Bush Tax Cuts Debate Wounding Obama and the Democratic Party
At 1:04 a.m. the morning of September 30, the Democratic Party, the Obama Presidency and Liberal America were given the last rites. Nancy Pelosi also all but insured she will be a lame duck speaker even if the Democrats retain control of the House.

The occasion was a seemingly routine vote on whether to adjourn the House until after the November elections, but the real issue behind this vote was whether to extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Pelosi cast the rare deciding vote from the speakers chair resulting in a 210-209 squeaker. Rather than risk a vote on the tax cuts, Pelosi decided to punt.

Pelosis single vote is testimony to her waffling on this issue, to the inability of the White House to rally its supporters and to the inability of the Democratic Party to stand for principles. The postponed vote and the indecision put the Democrats in a difficult position since without a vote the well-oiled GOP propaganda machine will ramp up its fear tactics, shouting that the postponement means the Democrats are going to raise everyones taxes, not just those of rich people.

Had Pelosi voted to continue the session it could have turned this campaign into a genuine contest of ideas. The argument that the recess was needed in order to allow vulnerable Democrats to campaign holds little validity since Pelosi controls the gavel and the Democrats the agenda. With any thought, the Democrats could have produced a carefully-coordinated campaign that turned up the heat on the Republicans, while still allowing their own candidates time to campaign.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/pelosis-vote...




November 05, 2010 - Obama Wants Congress to Halt AMT Tax Hike on Middle Class by Dec. 31
President Barack Obama believes that Congress must act before the end of the year to stop a tax hike that would disproportionately hit middle-class earners, said White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs.

Among those subject to this already-in-place tax increase are some families making less than $50,000 per year, and virtually all married couples earning between $100,000 and $500,000 a year, according to the CBO. (See earlier story.)

Congress could stop the tax hike by enacting legislation that temporarily increases the amount of income exempt from the Alternative Minimum Tax. The temporary reprieve passed by Congress for each of the past nine years expired on Dec. 31, 2009 and, so far, Congress has not extended the AMT "fix, or patch, for 2010.

What the president believes is, we have both houses coming back and that this is an issue that must and has to be dealt with in that session, Gibbs said.

According to the CBO, among the households that will be hit with the AMT this year under current law include the following: 3 percent are households making less than $50,000 a year; 35 percent are household making between $50,000 and $100,000 per years; 47 percent are households making between $100,000 and $200,000 per year; and 14 percent are households making between $200,000 and $500,000 per year.

Because of the particular tax preferences and exemptions disallowed under the AMT, that tax structure is more likely to affect married couples, large families, and taxpayers in states with high state and local taxes, according to the CBO.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-wants-congres...


November 28, 2010 - Taxes, budget and jobless benefits - Congress at the wire
The lame-duck Congress returns on Monday to a daunting agenda of economic issues.
And lawmakers will try to accomplish in a few weeks what has eluded them all year.

Some deadlines, such as extending unemployment insurance and passing a federal budget, will hit this week. On other matters, such as the Bush tax cuts, lawmakers have until year's end.

Bush tax cuts: On Tuesday, President Obama will meet with congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle to tackle the extension of the Bush tax cuts.

Just about the only thing both parties agree on is preserving the tax cuts for lower- and middle-income families, which is estimated to cost $3 trillion over a decade. At issue is extending them permanently for the high-income earners, which adds $700 billion to the tab.

President Obama and many Democrats have said they want the tax cuts to expire on family income above $250,000. But the GOP contends that raising taxes now on anyone will imperil the still-fragile economy.

Unemployment benefits: It looks increasingly likely that hundreds of thousands of people will start running out of extended unemployment benefits this week.

Lawmakers are expected to let the Nov. 30 deadline to file for federal unemployment insurance pass without extending it. But that doesn't mean it's the end of the road for federal benefits, which last 73 weeks. Congress may take up the measure during December, either as stand-alone legislation or as part of a bigger bill.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/28/news/economy/week_ahead...



November 29, 2010 - Democrats Gird for Tax-Relief Battle
With the lame-duck Congress reconvening Monday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) may hold a vote mid-week on legislation that would extend the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts only for families with income less than $250,000, while allowing the upper brackets to expire.

But Senate Democrats are still divided over their party's endgame strategy. Some Democrats are ready to accept a temporary extension of all tax cuts. But there is also growing interest among other Democrats in a compromise that would keep them in place only for families with income up to $1 million. Administration officials, for their part, have opposed making upper-income tax cuts permanent, but are widely viewed as being willing to accept an extension of a year or two. Republicans are unified in opposition to allowing the Bush-era tax cuts to lapse for any income group.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703785704...


12/01/10 - On November 30, President Obama met with House and Senate Leaders at the White House
to discuss how to proceed with the Bush-era tax cuts that will sunset at the end of this year if Congress doesn't act.

At a press conference following the meeting, the President said that House and Senate leaders agreed that it was necessary for both parties to reach an agreement on how to move forward on the Bush-era tax cuts before they expire. However, the only "progress" on the issue was the designation of a working group to deal with how to proceed.
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp


12/1/10 Bipartisan working group appointed on Bush-era tax cuts; Republicans threaten to hold up other legislation.
A "bipartisan" working group has been appointed to grapple with the Bush-era tax cuts that will sunset at the end of this year unless Congress acts. That was followed by an announcement from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) that Republicans would thwart all other legislation until Congress revives the tax cuts for everyone.
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp


12/2/10 House passes the "Middle Class Tax Relief Act."
On December 2, the House by a vote of 234-188 approved H.R. 4853, the "Middle Class Tax Relief Act of 2010," as amended.
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp


12/3/10 Senate to consider various middle-class tax relief proposals.
On Dec. 2, Senate Finance Committee Chair Max Baucus (D-MT) introduced legislation (Amdt. 4727) that would permanently cut middle-class tax rates to 10%, 15%, 25%, 28% and 33% for individuals making up to $200,000 and families making up to $250,000. It would also make permanent the 15% rate for capital gains for individuals making up to $200,000 and families making up to $250,000 and permanently extend the marriage penalty relief. The bill would permanently extend the 45% estate tax rate, with an exemption for estates under $3.5 million, indexed for information. In addition, the bill would permanently extend the child tax credit and the making work pay credit.

Following a caucus meeting of Senate Democrats on Dec. 2, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) announced that the Senate would vote on Saturday, Dec. 4, on two Democratic proposals to provide middle-class tax relief: (1) Baucus's amendment (Amdt. 4727), which includes AMT relief and an unemployment insurance extension; and (2) Senator Charles Schumer's (D-NY) amendment (Amdt. 4728), which includes a tax cut extension for those making up to $1 million, plus several additional items included in the Baucus amendment. However, it is unlikely that either amendment will get the 60 votes necessary for Senate passage, considering that Senate Republicans have said they would not support a bill that did not extend all of the Bush-era tax cuts, see Article #1860.
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp



12/6/10 Senate fails to pass "middle class relief;" stage set for a compromise, possibly this week.
During a rare Saturday session on Dec. 4, the Senate failed to pass two Democratic initiatives to make permanentfor the middle-class only the Bush-era tax cuts contained in the 2001 EGTRRA and 2003 JGTRRA. The stage is set, however, for a compromise that will most likely extend the Bush-era tax cuts "temporarily" for everyone.

An amendment offered by Senate Finance Committee Chair Max Baucus (D-MT) to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for everyone except those with incomes above $250,000 (joint filers) or $200,000 (single filers) was defeated by a vote of 53-36. Also defeated by a vote of 53-37 was an amendment offered by Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for everyone except those with incomes above $1 million. Both amendments included a number of other tax provisions.

On Sunday, Dec. 5, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL) said that he expects tax negotiators will reach an agreement on a bill that will provide a temporary extension of all tax brackets. Also on Sunday, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ), a negotiator on the tax bill, said that Republicans would agree to an extension of unemployment benefits as part of a deal on taxes. Tax negotiations are expected to resume on Dec. 6. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has said that he hoped to have an agreement on tax issues by Wednesday, Dec. 8.
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp


12/7/10 President announces "framework for a bipartisan agreement" on extending Bush-era tax cuts.
Late on Dec. 6, President Obama announced that the Administration and the Republicans had arrived at a "framework for a bipartisan agreement" that would extend the Bush-era tax cuts and give workers a 2% reduction in Social Security tax for 2011. How this agreement will be received by Congressional Democrats is uncertain at this time.
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp



12/8/10 "Senate first" strategy for "bipartisan" agreement on extending Bush-era tax cuts.
On December 8, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid D-NV) said that the Senate may take up the "bipartisan" agreement to extend the Bush-era income tax cuts for all taxpayers before the weekend. "It's further along than most people think," Reid said. "I don't think there is a great more to be done on that."
http://ria.thomsonreuters.com/taxwatch/default.asp



12/09/2010 - House Democrats vow to block tax measure
As the Senate steamed toward a Monday afternoon vote on the far-reaching package, House Democrats were in open revolt. Amid chants of "Just say no," they agreed overwhelmingly during a private meeting Thursday to block the measure from going to the House floor, a symbolic move that underscored the depth of their anger.

Later, House Democratic sources said several options were under discussion, including an amendment to strengthen the inheritance tax provisions. By changing the underlying terms of the deal, however, such an effort could imperil the bill in the Senate, raising the risk that lawmakers could leave town without extending a host of tax provisions that are set to expire on New Year's Eve - hitting virtually every U.S. family with an immediate tax increase.

"House Democrats share the president's commitment to providing the middle class with a tax cut to grow the economy and create jobs" but "reject the Senate Republican tax provisions as currently written," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said in a statement. "We will continue discussions with the president and our Democratic and Republican colleagues in the days ahead to improve the proposal before it comes to the House floor for a vote."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


12/09/2010 - Democrats block tax bill
House Democrats have blocked Barack Obamas tax cuts agreement with Congressional Republicans, to which Harry Reid is reportedly intending to attach his poker bill.

According to US media reports, Democrats are angry that the deal Obama struck on Monday is too generous to wealthy Americans by extending tax rates for the top two tiers of earners, and are demanding changes.
http://www.egrmagazine.com/news/610227/democrats-block-...








the more I researched, the more pissed off I got.
not just at congressional Democrats,
but at the thought that some would be so short sighted and simplistic
and prone to believe that the only worthwhile to do now is to blame just one man!










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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for all the research
My rec brought you back to zero.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks!
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 05:21 PM by FrenchieCat
It's the kind of stuff that some fear the most.
I'm no longer surprised that facts here, like at FR
are a really bad thing.
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BlueGirlRedState Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Thanks, FrenchieCat
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rec'd for the effort and the thought involved
This was a team effort. Obama is the leader of the team, so he naturally takes the most heat. There will be much more reporting on this saga and some of it will likely test our unity even more than the past week. Your perspective here is healthy.

Democrats should never forget how hard it is to get one of our own elected. The alternatives are beyond appalling.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Problem is that the meme around here only deals with Obama.....
not the Republicans, and actually, not even the Democrats either.

I remember well when the tax cut discussions were closed off in congress,
as so many were scared to even have that debate.

The difference is that some here have conveniently forgotten all of that.
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hey, mine was +1 ! :)
Thanks for all the hard work on that, FrenchieCat! I've been feeling like a bit of an outsider on DU lately - it's nice to know that I'm not such a lonely little petunia, after all. :hug:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Very well done, Frenchie!
:loveya:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Hey hon!
I've been missing you! :hi:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I miss you, too
I've been reading here, but mainly the OPs, rarely the comments. I don't have the stamina for the bullshit anymore. :hi:

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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent work
but the threads that get rec'ced more often have nothing more substantial to say than 'Obama is teh suck!'
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young but wise Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. the Republican/Obama tax agreement structurally alters Social Security and for the first time
in it's history, ties it to the general fund.

this is very bad.

The democrats never proposed that this happen before now.


See, you don't understand. this isn't about Obama or the senate. This is about a frontal attack on social security.


No, we are not going to sit idly by while it's dismantled. No!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. So Nouriel Roubini , the Congressional Black Caucus and this President
who are all for a Payroll tax holiday, are all in cahoots, right?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Cutting social security payroll taxes won't save social security. It will kill it.
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 08:43 PM by John Q. Citizen
That's what I believe, you are free to believe that cutting social security payroll taxes will help social security or be neutral, if you wish.

I just don't believe it.

I believe it will really seriously hurt Social Security.

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. But, overall, the Congressional Black Caucus opposes the "compromise"
http://washingtoninformer.com/index.php?option=com_cont...


Congressional Black Caucus Says Obamas Tax Plan Compromise is Harmful to African Americans

At a Friday press conference on Capitol Hill, Rep. Barbara Lee (D-California), who chairs the Congressional Black Caucus, said that an overwhelming majority of the group opposes the tax plan brokered by President Obama and Senate Republicans.

Were extremely concerned that the cuts that could be made should this package pass would disproportionately hurt the poor and low-income communities and further erode the safety net, Lee said. We dont want to create a situation here that will exacerbate the conditions for Americans who are already hurting. That would be unfair and would be unwise.

The caucus endorses three components of the plan: a 13-month extension of emergency unemployment insurance benefits; a payroll tax holiday OR an equivalent, such as a tax rebate check that will not deprive the Social Security fund of revenue; and a two-year extension of the Bush-era tax cuts for middle and low income families. But the group is also calling for additional unemployment assistance for people whove been unemployed for more than 99 weeks and the extension of provisions in the Recovery Act, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit, and the American Opportunity Tax Credit.

Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Virginia), a member of the House Budget Committee, said that Congress should allow all of the tax cuts to expire to prevent Congress from having to make draconian spending cuts to vital programs in next year. He said that the CBCs plan would cost approximately one-half of the presidents proposal and also would create the same number of jobs. In addition, Scott warned, a temporary extension of tax cuts for all income levels could hurt the president and other Democratic lawmakers seeking reelection in 2012. It will be extremely difficult, if even possible at all, to extend tax cuts into an election year and then cut them off, he said.




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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. K/R - saving all this good work and FACTS
Supports the observation that the Congressional Dems didn't get all hot and bothered to do much until the President made a move, and that Republicans were obstructing all the way along.

Meanwhile, I still haven't seen anyone from the "Blame Obama" crowd come up with a plan that would realistically get through Congress. I challenge someone to read this timeline and suggest a plan based on what the timeline shows us.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The more folks are exposed to the truth as opposed to one sentence acussatory soundbytes,
the more honest this party will become with itself.
Till then, some will continue to believe that Obama has
the power to part the waters.....while we continue to
sit by the sideline throwing rocks.

Starting next year, those rocks become hand grenades,
set to allow the entire party to explode by those
waiting for a Revolution that won't ever happen,
cause they can't get off their ass long enough.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. Capitulation.
Not even one sentence is required to accurately describe what just happened.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Politics happened.......
and part of the price of a big tent when dealing with Democrats,
is that a majority is not totally that...especially in the Senate.

But call it what you'd like, and feel satisfied. As long as you
can hurl names, I would imagine you sleep a tiny bit better at night,
although I know....all is doomed! :eyes:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
74. "part of the price of a big tent when dealing with Democrats,"
So, why is it a good thing to be "dealing with Democrats" again??? :shrug:
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Indeed.
I sent this out to my list last night. Thanks for this OP, it will also be shared.


As I watched Bernie Sanders' effort I wondered why that same inclination had not been exerted by our Democratic Senators and Representatives. In what closed drawers or hidden pockets has their vigorous defense of our best interest been sequestered? And why? There have been way too many squandered opportunities for firm action, too many discarded moments in which needed change could and should have happened. If nothing else, Sanders has showed us and his fellow senators the fire that should rise on our behalf; instead, in the face of increasingly blatant dishonesty of purpose on the part of Republicans our elected representatives have repeatedly withered and skulked away.

To my admittedly meager and limited view, the failures of our members of congress created a scenario in which the most vile agenda ever promulgated was allowed to spew unchecked, clogging legislative processes and making a mockery of the people's trust. The Democrats didn't act when they should have, and the Republicans gleefully pounced. We have seen our President pushed in one direction by Republicans, and pulled in many other directions by Democrats.

And what about Obama? We campaigned for and elected the community organizer, the scholar, the professor. And before he was even inaugurated he was being assailed by Democrats in addition to the expected slams from Republicans. The Secret Service has acknowledged that this president has received more threats than any other president in our history, and he's not yet served half of one term. Because he has not behaved like a dictator, because he has continued to be the person to whom we were so drawn, he has been loudly slimed and cursed by members of his own party, to the very great delight of Republicans and the right wing blogosphere. I'm thankful in the extreme that I am not in his shoes; he has exercised a remarkable restraint that I do not have. To twist an old phrase, with supporters like us he doesn't need opponents.

As I watch the Democrats in both House and Senate as they "rebel" against Obama's compromise, there's a little piece of my brain that's looking askance at that "rebellion." It's a bit evocative of those childhood moments in which I attempted to shift blame to a sibling in order to avoid consequences. For my money, had OUR people in congress done what they should have Obama wouldn't have had to consider the compromise. Is the impasse disgusting? Yes. Is it Obama's fault? No. And yet we sit quietly and watch as he is treated heinously. He has become the national scapegoat, and in that tragic reality the moment of golden opportunity fades quickly. The promise of his abilities is being wasted, not by him, but by our continuing silence. Meanwhile, the Republicans are in the wings preparing to turn off the lights.


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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Wow and yes!
Your words will get out, as will mine, regardless of those
determined to continue sowing distain and distrust against
this President, with their eyes on making sure the Democratic party
does not live in any branch of the government starting as early
as 2012.

Why would they work so hard and passionately at this unworthy goal?

Because they don't give a shit about you and me, or anyone else for that matter.
They opinions based on unsound heresy, and lacking solid fact or evidence,
is what is most important to them.

And as you know, part of being able to claim being a Liberal
is having open minds, and being willing to contemplate many views prior
to making a determination....and so those of whom we speak, they aren't
defined Liberals, nor are they progressives; they just pose as such
on internet, all the while having an agenda that doesn't include making
this country better or acknowledging any progress.
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political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
52. +10000000000. Excellently said.
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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent work!! K&R
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. WOW! I wish I could "rec" this more than once.... this
is pretty damning of those legislators who are so boldly posturing.

Thank you for doing all this research for us.

I hope people will make the effort to read it.- It would require some ...serious re-thinking.
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elizm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you!!
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. We need another party for Republicrats!
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. and the one man is the POTUS... They want to blame everything on him
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. That would be because the administration jammed this deal in.
By doing that, Obama now owns the Obama-GOP-Bush tax cuts.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. living in Never-Never Land must be fun!
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #41
55. LOL: I'm not the one pretending this is a victory. nt.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. No....you are pretending that Pres. Obama does......
He doesn't. He said he was doing what needed to be done. He did speak of being a hostage, as are 98% of the American people. I'm sure you most likely didn't bother to remember anything he said, if you even can stand listening to him.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. It's the destination that matters here, not the journey
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 06:45 PM by rocktivity
and we've arrived at a bad deal. Improve it or leave it.

:headbang:
rocktivity
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. Why doesn't this have hundreds of recs?
Is it because most people would rather complain than read something more than a couple paragraphs long?

Thank so much, Frenchie Cat, for your invaluable contribution to the discussion.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Because it cuts directly to the argument that Obama is a weak non-leader
How can one lay all that is wrong at his feet when one has to acknowledge what actually goes on in Washington and the fact that it is not his sole responsibility to get it done?

A lot of people apparently don't want to deal with reality right now. It's more comforting to believe that Obama failed them and Progressives could have had it all if only he hadn't been such an incompetent screw-up.

:eyes:
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great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R this is a keeper! Thank you very much FrenchieCat.
Your hard work will be spread far and wide.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kicking for relevance
and to counter unrecs and vapid evasions. . .


-
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Vapid evasion! Yep, I'd call it that.
Some are getting started early......much earlier than last Presidential election.
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R Thank you, Frenchiecat!
Happy to rec, it puts you all the way up to 4. ;)
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. It's fine! I count the views, not the Rec, which have become as relevant
as those who lie about the President's positions
without regard to the truth.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wow! You've outdone yourself, Frenchie!
Kicking and rec'ing out the wazoo!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #30
49. The facts will be at zero Recs forevermore here at this site.....
only hyperbole counts anymore.
We've been dumbed down!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R. Facts are funny things,
And the people afraid of them here are even 'funnier'.


Many of them must have fell out of trees as children and hit their soft heads.

Tress can be tricky things.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I think the "Let it sink" is the option being chosen for this one.
Amnesia when assaulting is much preferred.

That's what the Pukes do....so I guess, that I'm not surprised
that those wanting a partisan Dictator on the Left as President,
would exhibit similar traits.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. K & R - Thanks so much for this!
It's really informative to see the timeline laid out like this. You must have put a lot of effort into it. I hope we can muster a few more recs.
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
42. Completely excellent OP - the best I have read in months
on DU!!! Great job Frenchie! thank you so much for all the effort you put into this. K&R for sure - I'm so sorry this isn't being Rec'd to the front page. It deserves to be there.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. That's a nice compliment!
Makes me want to write some more! :hi:
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ProgressOnTheMove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
43. Totally right, most times out of ten the President has been blamed for pre-emptively addressing...
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 12:35 AM by ProgressOnTheMove
Rebuplican obstuructionism. He's been practical in the face of this and got stuff done, it's chainging the mindset that makes the GOP behave this way that is the real problem. Doing that will take time patience and a generation.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. But what is sad is that most of us watched this as it happened,
did nothing, and now everyone is excited.

The elected congressional Dems are all worked up and fighting now,
but didn't fight when they had the time to fight.

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
45. Are you still under the impression that the "middle class" tax cuts are some godsend to
the majority of people.

Most of us are getting crumbs and being told that this will stimulate the economy using the same song and dance as dumbass dubya and his ideological predecessors.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
47. K&R thank you for all that work, FrenchieCat!! and your further
enlightenment down thread!

i am always learning from you, thank you ao much!!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I'll thank you and kick my thread.!
a twofer! :bounce:
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #48
59. grin
:kick:
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
50. There has been one constant throughout the time, and that is the President.
He is not going to let the people be hurt by the snipers. I applaud his tenacity and his ability to cut through the crap to get something done...that's real change.

K&R
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political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
51. Thank you, Frenchie. This timeline needed to be out there.
The disinformation about the entire tax deal is overwheming. It is time for someone to set things straight.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
53. If House Dems are so stupid as to block the compromise, they are DOOMED in 2012.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. We are doomed.
But considering some didn't even pay attention to the timeline or can't/don't remember it.....
I'm sure they forgot what it's like to get not only nothing you want, but everything you don't want.

They may soon find out, and then we'll have to hear them blame everyone else but themselves.
That's how it works.
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JamesA1102 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
54. Thank you! nt
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
56. Thank you, FrenchieCat..
You and I were on opposite sides in the first half of 2008, but that was then, this is now. President Obama has not always done everything exactly the way I would wish he COULD have, but I do believe he has always had the American people in the fore front when he has made decisions. He is, after all, the president of the United States of America...all of us...!

Your research is extensive, and worthy of gratitude from those of us who have been so frustrated by the bashing - not just criticism, bashing - that has been going on since 1/21/2009.

Thank you again, FrenchieCat.

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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
57. Thanks for putting so much work into this thorough research.
Unfortunately there are plenty of people here who won't bother to read it and will instead give it a knee-jerk unrec because you didn't go off on a rant about how much Obama sucks. That's the only kind of post that gets recommended any more, it seems. Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts. Thanks for trying, anyhow.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
58. 4 words, "The buck stops here"
Of course there is a lot of blame to go around but that is why some presidents go down in history as weak leaders and others strong. Obama has not demonstrated strong leadership attributes.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Sounds like some want to put the onus on Obama no matter what the facts are
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. The only undeniable fact is that he is the president.
A stronger president would not have allowed this to have happened. Argue that fact.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
61. "We" didn't set up anything, contrary to your post. nt
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
63. Great work. The replies by those desperate to keep blaming Obama in the face of these facts are
hilarious, sad, and frustrating at the same time. How does one reason with people who ignore facts? Still, a magnum opus on your part Frenchie! Bravo! Tres bien!
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #63
83. I didn't see the headline "Obama stands firm with Progressives in House, throws down gauntlet to
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 06:54 AM by harun
Senate GOP".

Stick that fact in your book. You know damn well we will NEVER see that headline.
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
64. those are facts.
Good luck with THAT.
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mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
66. Thanks Ms. FrenchieCat
for the info. There are some who don't know. But to tell you the truth there are some right here on DU, I am not saying all but some,have criticized this President because the right made it more permissible to do it. They have called our President everything under or above the sun.And this site has had some infiltration in it under the disguise of conservative Dem's. I just think that the problem with the bush era Tax Cuts, should have been solved a long time ago. And our party has gotten comfortable following the republican tow line. There are going to those who will say not me,but I challenge them to look in the mirror for a while.

As long as we keep commercing with the enemy,we will always be beholden to the Chamber of Commerce!!!!
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. It was just one man who decided that only he could negotiate a "deal" with the Republicans
While leaving his own party out of the loop.

Thanks for (unintentionally) demonstrating that the blame is indeed justifiably placed on "just one man".
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
69. Here ya go:

This is now Obama's desk.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
70. The fact that this has 0 recs says ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW about DUv2
But let me put up some "I'm black and I'll NEVER VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN!!!one!" bullshit or "I'm just soooo disillusioned and disappointed" or "You know he's a republican, right? Don't let the fact that the republicans have done everything but poison his socks fool you" and that would have 400 recs within the hour.

Whining, FUD and hyperbole? DU says: Yes!
Actual content and fact based discussions of issues? DU says: Nyet!
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
71. Thanks so much for this post
I'm new and don't how to kick or recommend but when I figure it out I will do it because people really need to get a look at this.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
72. Does anyone else notice that it takes Obama until late November to really ..........
push this into high gear? Nearly two years had gone by before Obama decided to come out strong, while the whole time Republicans were framing the message during the mid-term elections.

If this was such a hot button issue, then why did it take Obama so long to wade into the debate?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. There were more articles than the ones I posted........LOL!
It's just that once Nancy Pelosi had taken the tax bill off the table,
than elections happened, and it took a while to regain footing......

He started in "high gear" in August or so, and then in early October,
he was told to back off.

then we had the elections.

It would have been nice if he, by himself, could have done everything,
done it faster, and done it exactly as we would have like. Too bad
the man is not 100% perfect in many ways.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
73. Nope, I blame nearly ALL of the Dems and ONE "independent"
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 09:54 PM by ProudDad
Not just Obama...

They're all in on the corporate fix...

Obama's just the spokesmodel...
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
76. Another Kick!
:kick:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
77. Kicked again for the excellent facts therein!
:kick:
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
78. Too late to rec, but here's a kick!
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
79. Kick
:kick:
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
80. Kick and too late to rec . . .
Very good piece.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
81. god bless you frenchie very informative
i still love ya keep up the good work
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
82. Kick for your effort
and not for your point of view, with which I disagree. I would've recc'd on the same basis, but it's too late. I admit that I didn't read the timeline part of the post- in fact, I almost got carpal tunnel syndrome just scrolling down to the bottom.

I am not interested in whether the blame or credit for this package belongs to one man or to many. Regardless, I think the compromise in it's current form is a serious mistake.

I appreciate the fact that Obama's compromise will be far less painful to many people in the short run than letting the Bush tax cuts expire, especially if the Republicans stick to their extortion guns. I also firmly believe that the long-term cost of the compromise will dwarf the short-term benefits. The worst part of the package is the payroll tax holiday, which is a Trojan horse which will ultimately be used to reduce Social Security benefits.



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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 10:09 AM
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84. we may now need to amend the Timeline to include the Republican objections to the deal
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