I like President Obama.

[Writer]

President Obama is an intelligent man, a pragmatic thinker, and is willing to do the dirty work of navigating political mine fields in order to help the American people. I don't always agree with him, but I am willing to trust the same instinct I used to vote for him in the first place - that he is intelligent and thoughtful enough to do the best he can within the political and social realities in which he is forced to operate.

I think those are good qualities, and I am very proud to have him in the Oval Office.

[tabatha]

1. Hmm, my rec did not get you back to zero.

I agree. However, a lot of people are turning on him, sadly.

[lamp_shade]

2. Mine did... put it back to zero.

[Writer]

3. Where is SKINNER?

What is the point of this forum? I don't understand why some people are still here. We have a Democrat in the WH, and this is a Democratic website. What is the point for other Democrats coming here to discuss the presidency if they're constantly having to navigate through the dredges of posts that tear him down?

[DrDan]

6. or having to navigate through the cheerleader posts . . .

This is a site to discuss progressive/liberal issues. So great - you like the President. But there are those here who feel our issues are not being adequately addressed. Some even think the President himself could be doing more to (1) address these issues typically supported on this site and (2) delivering on campaign promises.

I see nothing wrong with that.

[swilton]

96. +1

[emilyg]

123. Hear. Hear!

[tblue]

125. Who doesn't like Obama? But my vote is not a loyalty oath nor a vow of silence.

Why do we keep having this discussion and this reprimanding? I vote for people based on policy. Not their personality or what I suspect are their inner desires or their stifled intentions. I don't vote for their speeches. I vote and I judge politicians by what they do and who/what they fight for, period. I blindly follow no one and I will never stop speaking my mind. And this incessant insistence on silencing people is not winning over anyone, me least of all, to your way of thinking. The day we shut down sincere loyal opposition is the day this party dies.

[winyanstaz]

134. ty...well said

[Myrina]

139. +10

I rec NEWS and ISSUES, not "guess what color socks I wore today" threads.

[mopinko]

7. alert on that shit.

i agree that this place is infested with haters. build the case on them. alert.
the admins and mods do listen.

[Writer]

12. I wish that Skinner would address the current nature of the site...

and give us a better definition for what it means to run a Democratic site when so much disagreement over Obama's policies within the party seems to exist.

If not "Democratic" underground, then what - "liberal" underground? "Democratic PARTY" underground? Because, as it stands, this place is chaos.

[jgraz]

16. He's already done that, very clearly.

You just apparently don't like his rules.

Oh, and welcome to Teh Internets, where people have different opinions from yours.

[DrDan]

17. read the site rules

"Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates."

"generally supportive of progressive ideals . . . "
"not affiliated with the Democratic Party . . . "

Seems pretty clear to me.

The site is here to support liberal and progressive thought - not for the adoration of a single individual.

[rudy23]

27. Sounds pretty open and shut to me, Writer. And you're pulling a Rove here.

You're accusing the other side of doing exactly what your side is doing---perverting the intentions of this board.

[mopinko]

38. not for the spewing of rw talking points, either.

constructive criticism is one thing. bashing obama and his supporters is not that.

i think that pretty much no matter what is happening, the rules are fine. the community lets the admins and mods know what they think via alerts and emails. it is an essential part of the process here.
haters need to be alerted on.

[CTLawGuy]

44. misleading

not affiliated with the party doesn't mean there is no requirement to be supportive of Democrats. In fact there is an explicit requirement to support Democrats as you posted.

[DrDan]

45. it clearly says that - I posted that

what is misleading?

[CTLawGuy]

46. well you were trying to imply that

supporting liberal thought was the only goal of DU, therefore we don't have to worry about the bashing of Democrats, including the president.

[DrDan]

48. I posted the complete rule . . .

you were reading what you wanted to read

[CTLawGuy]

82. but then, after saying this site was not affiliated with the Democratic party, you only said

this site was to support liberal and progressive thought, which is incomplete and misleading. This site is also to support Democrats, including the president.

Most of the bashing that goes on here goes way beyond constructive criticism and disagreement, and calling that out is not the "adoration of one person."

[DrDan]

83. I tend to agree with you . . . there is some bashing that goes beyond

constructive criticism.

On the other hand, there are those here who firmly believe our singular focus should be Obama. A single word of criticism is nothing more than Obama-hate.

Support of Democrats collectively is expected. That certainly does not mean members need support EVERY position taken by EVERY D. Should that be the case, even well-known progressives such as Kucinich would not be allowed on-site.

[CTLawGuy]

85. I agree

but calling the president a corporate whore and a war monger should not be kosher here. I'm not sure there are a lot of people calling mere criticism "Obama-hate" but maybe you see it more than me.

[defendandprotect]

121. You're saying DU is intended to support Democrats . . . not matter what they do?????

Wow ... that's really spinning --

[defendandprotect]

120. Dissent is built in to the system of democracy . . . if you want democracy . . .

it is not "bashing" anyone ---

it is saying that we need health care for all --

and not policies which benefit corporations/capitalism --

but the people --

Both of the two parties are largely infiltrated by corporations -- DLC is the corporate wing

of the Democratic Party -- have you missed that fact?

And the goal of the DLC is to move the Democratic Party to the right -- to the corporate right --!!!

Again -- dissent is not bashing of anyone -- it's calling for democracy vs corporatism.

[mopinko]

145. du is not a democracy

it is a private entity, wholly owned by skinner, et al, with a specifically stated purpose. the constitution does not apply. there is no guarantee of free speech here.
sorry.

[defendandprotect]

161. And you're saying Skinner is "anti-dissent" . . . ????

Read some of the thread -- especially the rules --

See post #68 by Hissyspit --

and then WAKE UP!!!



HERE'S SKINNER'S COMMENTS . . .

One more VERY IMPORTANT point.

This post has focused on the limits of acceptable behavior when criticizing Barack Obama or those of us who support him. But I want to be absolutely clear:

This does not mean "anything goes" for those DUers who defend him from criticism.


Indeed, we have knee-jerk bullies on all sides of this issue.

Just as DUers should be able to support and defend Barack Obama here on DU without being attacked or having their motives questioned,

DUers should also be able to share legitimate criticism of Barack Obama without being attacked or having their motives questioned.

[HughMoran]

102. "members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media"

Look deeper into the rules - it says what's in the subject and also:

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents (Freeperville) are not welcome here.

[BREMPRO]

109. the operative word here is "constructive"

much of the criticism i see here lately is "destructive"- reflexive cynicism and in many cases born from bitterness,ignorance, and unrealistic expectations. That's the stuff that has frustrated me most. I'll have a civil debate with anyone on the issues, but the inflexible haters get tiring. For the 5 years i've been on the site, this is the most uncivil internal conflict i've seen.

[liberation]

117. I love how you chose a completelly subjective term such as "constructive" criticism

Who needs to provide well articulated counter points and justifications, when you can simply brush off criticism using an undefined and unmeasurable standard?

So not only is pragmatism considered a proper quality for a politician, but intellectual laziness is exalted as the epitome of political debate. Good grief...

[BREMPRO]

154. You've turned me into a strawman! "Constructive" is not "completely subjective"

I never "brush off well articulated counter points and justifications" as you suggest- If you actually read my complete post and followed any of my argument here over the past year I have said quite clearly and followed the principle: "I'll have a civil debate with anyone on the issues, but the inflexible haters get tiring."

Here's is the DU rule applied to the factions here I was referring to: "Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents (Freeperville) are not welcome here." There are many here that reflexively and cynically attack anything Obama or the Dems do without offering substantial argument and when they do are often intellectually dishonest or ignorant. That is not constructive.

[defendandprotect]

122. So, Democratic Underground is a place to bury your head in the sand---???

Whatever is happening among Democrats here is also happening outside this

website --

To try to block and ignore that reality is burying your head in the sand -- !!!

We can continue to express hope here which is logical because we voted for Democrats --

but we can't be blind to what's actually going on --

[treestar]

Are you sure you're not doing that?

IMO some are avoiding the M$M to the point where they don't realize it exists and what we are up against.

For instance, on DU I've seen plenty of condemnation for Blue Dogs and their positions on health care. Yet on Faux there was an ad running that has those Blue Dogs' photos and words under them to the effect that it is up to them whether you can "choose your doctor," implying they can "deny you life saving treatment."

IOW, those very people here who are not liberal enough on health care are being held up in the M$M and socialistic enemies of getting to choose your own doctor setting up death panels and the like.

The far left of DU thinks it has luxuries it does not have. Power it does not have. And therefore is not doing anybody any good, including any progressive goal.

[defendandprotect]

144. I'm quite sure . . .

and if I understand you correctly, YOU are watching MSM and believe it -- ???

Perhaps you don't know that Catholics -- the subject of the Stupak/Pelosi Amendment --

actually support reproductive freedom in a government or private insurance plan reform????

They also support the right to ABORTION in a government or private insurance plan --!!

And Contraception --

Did you hear that on MSM?

I don't understand your comments on the "Blue Dogs" but they should be condemned if they

are furthering corporatist interests.

In fact, these are two confused paragraphs you might like to try making clearer??


For instance, on DU I've seen plenty of condemnation for Blue Dogs and their positions on health care. Yet on Faux there was an ad running that has those Blue Dogs' photos and words under them to the effect that it is up to them whether you can "choose your doctor," implying they can "deny you life saving treatment."

IOW, those very people here who are not liberal enough on health care are being held up in the M$M and socialistic enemies of getting to choose your own doctor setting up death panels and the like.



As for this . . .

The far left of DU thinks it has luxuries it does not have. Power it does not have. And therefore is not doing anybody any good, including any progressive goal.

I think it makes clear the underlying FEAR-based argument of the thread itself --

IMO, Obama probably won by a much greater margin, if not a landslide, than we're aware of --

and there is also some feeling that more than 24 Congressional seats were stolen by GOP.

Further -- Americans support by a very large majority a public option -- and evidently would

overwhelmingly support Medicare for All if given that option in either polls or policy.

The idea that the people are powerless is something which benefits only the right wing and

fascism.

[treestar]

147. That's an ad on the M$M

I'm not saying I believe it. But observe that there are significant numbers of people in this country seeing those Blue Dogs from the right. It is ironic to hear about what corporatists they are from one side and how they are socialists from the other.

Maybe I have not spent enough time on the M$M to see ads coming from the other side. But the influence of the right seems to prevail on the M$M. I wouldn't expect it to be close to 50%.

And these are the people that got elected. As Democrats.

If people are that far left on the issues, they why don't they vote accordingly? The M$M has the power to confuse.

[defendandprotect]

153. No, but you're saying you fear it -- and that you are intimidated by it the ad --

YES . . . the MSM is in right wing hands --

so are our newspapers -- our publishing houses -- and all of the right wing think

tanks INVENTED by the right wing to underpin their elitist agenda . . .

And that's why we need Obama and Democrats to reinstitute the FAIRNESS IN BROADCASTING ACT --!!!

I'm still NOT entirely clear on what you are saying --

but YES . . . there were ads discussed which were intending to attack "blue dogs" who were

fighting health care reform which would be sponsored by the left. See Jane Hamish/Firedog Lake/?

think that's the name.

And I would heartily agree with targeting right wing Democrats ... as suggested by Michael Moore,

William Greider and many other DEMOCRATS!!!

When progressives and liberals move from the Democratic Party -- and I'm unsure whether that

will ever happen -- they have to move in a BLOC --

And, we probably need IRV voting to protect any such movement --

How far are we from that among Democrats who want to protect the two-party system????

Again -- we all push for liberal/progressive action which will benefit the nation and all it's

people -- what we have now is elitist government for the benefit of the few.

And -- I don't think that FEAR-based debate is going to move any debate forward --

it simply lends itself to arguing for the "lesser of evils" and compromising with the enemy.



i

[CTLawGuy]

165. that's the rule that's not being enforced

NT

[HughMoran]

168. Many of the threads here have titles that are far worse than the MSM & some are worse than FR

I know Skinner likes to give people enough rope to hang themselves with, but you can bet that when the 2010 elections season rolls around, many who are freely bashing anybody with a (D) after their name may feel like there is a double standard here. In reality, there has always been more leeway between elections (there are posts by Skinner pointing this out) and a tightening of what is acceptable happens every election season.

[HughMoran]

101. "Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party."

Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[MNDemNY]

112. Thankfully it does NOT say that we must agree with everything a Dem Office holder says or does.

Go ahead and alert!!! Start your own "Obama Underground" then you can spooge in peace. Those who blindly follow ANY politician are dangerous no matter which party they are in. :think: "starts with a "T" , rhymes with "ghoul"!

[defendandprotect]

119. Agree . . . quite clear . . .

I think what confuses many is the large "D" in Democratic Underground . . .

We should all be working for a democracy -- small "d" --

And not for either of the two entrenched political parties which are largely

representing corporate interests now and NOT the interests of the people --

[reggie the dog]

34. so Democratic Underground

is not a place for the democratic voting base to discuss policy issues which concern not only the American people but our congress critters and president as well?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

107. please, false naivete is unbecoming

to a thoughtful DU contributor.

Endeavor to understand the difference between fruitful dialogue and juvenile nastiness.

[rhett o rick]

65. If you dont like chaos, maybe you should look across the aisle. nt

[Hissyspit]

68. Skinner, April 2009: "A Few People Have Expressed Confusion About What Is Permitted Here Now Obama"

"Is President"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5524913

Info in Entire OP. Additional skinner info in posted comments.

[freddie mertz]

104. Skinner also makes THIS very clear:

"Just as DUers should be able to support and defend Barack Obama here on DU without being attacked or having their motives questioned, DUers should also be able to share legitimate criticism of Barack Obama without being attacked or having their motives questioned"

It's in there.

[defendandprotect]

124. Worth repeating . . . .

One more VERY IMPORTANT point.

This post has focused on the limits of acceptable behavior when criticizing Barack Obama or those of us who support him. But I want to be absolutely clear:

This does not mean "anything goes" for those DUers who defend him from criticism.


Indeed, we have knee-jerk bullies on all sides of this issue.

Just as DUers should be able to support and defend Barack Obama here on DU without being attacked or having their motives questioned,

DUers should also be able to share legitimate criticism of Barack Obama without being attacked or having their motives questioned.

[CTLawGuy]

166. so saying

that (and I quote): "If anyone here thinks Obama cares anything for the poor or the working poor or even the middle class, they have their head seriously up their collective asses," would be uncool? Or is that legitimate criticism?

[Enthusiast]

78. When President Obama

takes an action that I support, I, in turn, support the shit out of him. I even sent him money for his campaign, but I am rethinking that.

It's called freedom of thought, thinking outside the box, but however you define it, it is why we are different than the foolish Republicans.

[Go2Peace]

79. Face it, Skinner is likely a progressive and wants this dialog to happen.

Or he recognizes what you don't that there are as many, if not more here that are Frustrated Democrats.

You guys think because on your campus circle, or in the beltway, where I think most of the cheerleading comes from, you think that you represent the voice of the "common" democrat..

BUT YOU DON'T.

Getting it yet?

[katkat]

87. "this place is chaos"

Wait, isn't that what being a Democrat means? I don't think you're going to find any bunch of Democrats in lockstep, thank goodness.

Obama is due a lot of criticism, in my book, although I sometimes have the suspicion he is not doing as badly as it looks. A lot of the stuff going on that looks dubious turns out to be doing pretty well, but a lot of stuff like environmental protections, Salazar is not doing right. So it's a mixed bag.

The problem is he promised hope and change, and we're seeing a lot of same old same old in areas that he actually controls.

[rudy23]

9. Because our President is opposing the Democratic platform! Is it that hard?

Wall St, torture, John Yoo, Afghanistan, healthcare reform---are you being intentionally obtuse?

[Writer]

15. The issue here is that this may or may not be the Democratic platform.

But that this is what you SEE as the Democratic platform.

The actual platform contains planks that are far more diverse than you think, and not as narrowly defined.

[freddie mertz]

22. The one on abortion was clearly violated. Stupak.

Even the president seemed to balk at that one, although the ranks of his so-called defenders here were out in force, defending or minimizing it.

That was before they found out he disagreed with them.

Which spoke volumes to many.

[JVS]

61. LOL! That is the problem I have with a lot of discussions here

Everything that happens has to be viewed as a positive development because it's going on on Obama's watch. Such an attitude makes a reasonable discussion of the healthcare plan's development impossible.

[rudy23]

25. Sounds to me like you will accept Repub values if supported by a person w/ a D by their name

I don't care who proposes it---letting Goldman Sachs regulate our economy is not part of the Democratic platform. Why don't we just include pro-life and anti-gay legislation into the Democratic platform?

I don't think you're making a sincere argument, I think this is an exercise in defending the president at all costs, and pointing the fingers at the critics instead of examining the criticized.

[reggie the dog]

35. most of us "planks"

are working class and pretty far to the left. The American people 2 out of 3 of them want a public option. Imagine what the numbers are for the democratic voting base.

[defendandprotect]

131. And, good place to point out that includes CATHOLICS ... contrary to what we're

hearing from the Catholic Bishops -- and Catholics in our Congress!!!

Catholics support reproductive coverage -- including for abortion --

in a government or private health care system --


In other words, the Catholic Bishops, the RCC and Catholics in Congress are moving

in their own interests -- not in the interests of Catholic members!!

[freddie mertz]

19. And our Democratic House passed HCR with the Stupak provision

Also in clear violation of the national Democratic Party platform.

[ClarkUSA]

53. Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz said repeatedly on MSNBC that it would be taken out in conference.

So did Sen. Barbara Boxer. As you well know, since I have told you repeatedly before this.

Nice try at stirring up Obama FauxRage. :hi:

[freddie mertz]

86. I don't know how much Obama had to do with it passing the House.

Did he give Pelosi the green light? Was he lobbied by the bishops?

Did he stand back and "let it happen," which is the public profile at least?

I find it hard to believe, impossible to believe in fact, that the president was not consulted before the decision to let this pass was made by the Dem House leadership.

But the true history of how this all went down is yet to be written. The process is still going on. And it has been as far from "transparent" as it could possibly be.

Meanwhile, we know that the Senate bill will not contain a Stupak provision. That is good.

But that does not change the fact that what happened in the House is a blot on the reputation of the Democratic leadership, at the very least.

[defendandprotect]

132. The fact is that Democrats passed it--!!!! It was PROPOSED by a Democrat . . .!!!

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

126. The Democratic Platform . . . good reminder --

[reggie the dog]

32. Its called constructive criticism

and we are allowed to bitch when the Democratic politicians cannot have enough partly loyalty to vote through a public option that roughly two out of three Americans want. And we can bitch about unjust wars, unjust patriot acts etc......just like we did when w. was pulling that kind of shit.

[Bluesbreaker]

73. This is the Democratic UNDERGROUND Website

Underground, in my interpretation, means not the mainstream, DLC, Blue Dogs and others of that Ilk. I had the crazy idea that this was a progressive website. I guess my loyalty to what I consider core Democratic values (i.e., civil liberties, fight for the common good instead of the elite Larry Summers, Tim Geithner crowd, etc.) outweighs my allegiance to the party label, which Obama wears as a flag of convenience.

[calico1]

97. So you are saying that every single post

about Obama on this site should be 100% positive and any criticism should get a poster banned?

Isn't this kind of thinking what we hated about the Right?

I agree that hate posts about the President do not belong here but just because a poster criticizes the President doesn't make it hate. I think we can like the President and criticize him once in a while. Lord knows I do that with many of my family and friends. Doesn't mean I hate them.

[defendandprotect]

116. So dissent is "tearing" someone down . . . ???

No wonder so many here don't get it --

Dissent is disagreeing with policy -- and those who make it --

that's why we have elections -- to remove those who are NOT working for

a people's government, but for private/corporate/elitist interests!!

[Toasterlad]

146. Apparently, You Don't WANT a Discussion of the Presidency.

All you're really interested in is posting your Tiger Beat "Gosh, isn't Barack just the CUTEST???" pap here, and then getting 374 responses that all say "I agree!"

That's not a discussion.

[Armstead]

4. I like him too -- But in some respects he is screwing the pooch

He was elected to fight the status quo of the corporate oligarchy. At least that's how he sold himself.

But in surrounding himself by the same crowd that created this mess, he is too often taking actions (or inactions) that merely perpetuate the problem.

I am moderate and a compromiser by nature too. But I do believe a certain consistency is a necessary starting point for any debate or give-and-take in terms of political deal making.

[JamesA1102]

63. That's how he sold himself???

Were you paying attention during the election? Exactly when did he say he would "fight the status quo of the corporate oligarchy"?

[Armstead]

71. My words....But what he implied and said differently

[JamesA1102]

77. Or...

You projected your own views on to him and now you're blaming him for fulfiling promises he never made.

[parasearchers]

92. I agree totally, I am very disapointed with him

[freddie mertz]

5. He certainly seems to be a decent, thoughtful man.

What worries me is not the person, but the current policy direction.

[Ishoutandscream2]

93. Ditto

Like the man and his family very mcuh - but very concerned about his center-right positions on some matters that I deem important.

[impik]

163. Center-Right???

Funny how one of the most Liberals presidents ever - if you bother to actually check the facts and see what he has done so far - is being called "center-right" in this madhouse.

[Ishoutandscream2]

174. You really think Obama's "one of the most liberal presidents ever"?

I think it is very kind of me to call him center-right. Many would claim he's another corporate tool. I'm not in that camp.

[rudy23]

8. Britney?

"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens." -- Britney Spears, 2003

[freddie mertz]

18. HA! That just about nails it. nt.

[dbmk]

81. Except it doesn't.

The OP bases hid opinion on his perception of the Presidents qualities.
Not just the fact that he is the President.

You nailed yourself more than anything.

[freddie mertz]

136. Humor anyone?

I agree with the OP regarding the president's personal qualities.

The underlying theme that we should "trust" him on policy because of this is another matter.

[Hippo_Tron]

172. George Bush was neither an intelligent man nor a pragmatic thinker

[Cha]

10. We're lucky to have him.

[rudy23]

11. I think we need to revise the rules of DU to account for the attacks on Dems from the DLC

The political climate is different, and now we have to defend as much against trolls from the DLC/"Message Discipline" team as we would from Free Republic.

[freddie mertz]

24. The right does seem to have been unleashed here...

Was it always like this, or is this a new thing?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

99. It has always been a mixed bag at least as long as I have been here

but it has changed a lot since the election. There are times I dont even recognize this place, championing war, anti-gay rights, anti abortion etc.

[defendandprotect]

129. Holidays, I think --

but they do have a tendency to really, really dislike criticism --

and IMO they also like to not bother debating the issue because it's usually

more in the line of sensitivity and walking the line and general acceptance of

policies whatever they are if they have the imprint of a Democrat on them!

It's not a good combination IMO for protecting freedom nor democracy -- nor a

people's government --

It's a good recipe for inane compromise and moving the party to the right, further

into corporate hands.

[NanceGreggs]

13. Ditto.

:kick:

[Phx_Dem]

14. Ditto

[zipplewrath]

Delete Dupe

Delete unexplained duplicate

[zipplewrath]

20. I don't agree

Do you want to discuss that? It is a discussion forum. What part of what he has done has made you so supportive?

[zipplewrath]

21. Delete Dupe

like wise

[jgraz]

23. I like puppies

They're cute, cuddly and not one of them ever escalated an illegal, unwinnable war.

[AVID]

59. kick for cute puppies

and bush's failure in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan.

[f the letter]

72. That's perfect

Wish that were its own thread or that i could rec the response/picture

[jgraz]

106. Your wish, etc

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x46204

[tblue]

127. Damn, that's so cute I'm speechless. nt

[firedupdem]

28. Rec'd....I'm proud of him as well. n/t

[polichick]

29. He's the proverbial nice guy - when we need an ass kicker! nt

[goclark]

56. Like who that would have won the election?

Dennis?

[polichick]

58. Actually, Dennis would be a lot tougher on corporations, Republicans...

...and the MIC - and Obama could be tough too, if he wanted to (which, apparently, he doesn't).

[goclark]

62. NC

[Undercurrent]

30. I both like and admire our President,

and am very happy he's in the White House.

Do I agree with every thing he has done, or not done (yet)? No. But the constant complaining -- especially before people even have all the facts -- is counter productive.

And btw, I think that calling people cheerleaders does nothing but shut down any hope for a discussion.

[DrDan]

33. so what do you think about labeling those that have difference of opinion as "haters"?

is that ok?

of perhaps that also stymies discussion of issues.

[freddie mertz]

37. Of course it does.

I wish they could see that.

[Undercurrent]

41. I don't do that,

but I find some of the "anti" Obama posts counter productive and very offensive.

If people liking, supporting, admiring our President, or finding the First Family attractive is offensive ... well, I can't explain that.

[DrDan]

42. admiring the President and finding the first family attractive is fine

just don't expect everyone to feel the same way. That DOES NOT MEAN he is hated or disliked - just that the personal attraction and adoration is not there in the same fashion.

Some are here to discuss issues. Some are here to discuss Obama. Both can exist together. Both can be tolerant of the other. (The site, however, was designed around issues, per the rules.)

[Oregone]

31. "I am willing to trust the same instinct I used to vote for him in the first place"

Even if that instinct was simply, "He isn't as bad as that other asshole?"

:)

[dionysus]

36. many people are openly campaigning against dems on here now...sad.

[rudy23]

39. I know, look at all the threads attacking Kucinich out of nowhere, since at least July.

That's really what ramped up the backlash against the "center."

[dionysus]

40. you can be obsessed with dennis some more, but we've got several threads

promoting communism\socialism that call out liberals as pieces of shit.

are you good with that comrade?

:eyes:

[rudy23]

43. When those threads go on for six months with the frequency and intensity of the anti-DK posts

then I'll concede, we have a problem as far as DU being infiltrated by socialists and communists.

Until then, it sounds like you're pulling the old Rovian trick of calling out exactly what you're doing. Or Rahm-ian.

[dionysus]

49. LOL, those posts have been all over the joint.

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

148. What are you saying . . . that there are "pinkos" here . . .

Sounds kind of Joe McCarthy-ish . . .

The Russians are coming! ... ????

Let's think for a moment about how that kind of fear can be used . . .

Watergate was about PLANTING fake evidence that the Democratic Party was being

funded by the Communist Party --

And ever more likely that the Democratic Party was getting information that long,

long ago that computers were being used by the GOP to steal elections --

Which one do you think that someone who feared "pinkos" and believed right wing

propaganda about the infiltration of Communists into American politics would have

more likely believed?

And what would you believe about computer steals today?

The large computers used by MSM began to come in during the mid-1960's giving MSM

the additional power to not only simply report actual election returns but to

PREDICT elections and finally to CALL elections for candidates and states --

including ELECTORAL VOTES --

The computers, just coincidentally, began to come on line during the mid-late-1960's . . .

just about the time America was passing The Voting Rights Act!

[defendandprotect]

135. Remember . . . Joe Lieberman was a "Democrat" and almost became VP . . . caution required, IMO!!!

[R. P. McMurphy]

47. Well said Writer. n/t

[iceman66]

50. Me too. N/T

[Starbucks Anarchist]

51. No, you have to hate him 24/7.

You even have to blame him for things that happened before he took office.

[NJmaverick]

52. Brilliant and pragmatic are the keys to success

We have already seen signs of things turning around and the Bush messes being cleaned.

[PVnRT]

54. Well, good for you then

On balance I like him, too. I also think he's fucked up a few things already, and there will be more things he will fuck up on in the future.

I guess, though, to avoid harming your poor virgin ears, I have to keep my opinion to myself. We should all march in nice lockstep like the Republicans do.

[kid a]

55. K&R

[Honeycombe8]

57. He's an honorable, ethical, intelligent man who deliberates. He's far from perfect...

but I like him, too.

[cliffordu]

60. K&R Nice post

Unless you forgot your sarcasm smilie...

:rofl:

[NYC_SKP]

64. Thank you for this post, I agree 100%. Recommended. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

66. K&R....and

Let the man do his job already. In 4 years, if he doesn't deliver or meet our (collective) expectations....fire him. period.

:kick:


Constructive criticism is one thing, contributing to the efforts of the obstructionists is quite another.

[Historic NY]

67. I support my President & I'm willing to give him time to fix things....

I don't need a pony.

[Ildem09]

69. I like Obama But I'm not a Cheerleader

I like Obama as a person, I have serious problems with how he governs both style and Policy. If the vote was today baring a Palin Candidacy, when it's all hands on deck to defeat her I would not vote for Obama. *To clarify I would vote for Obama in a Obama V Palin showdown. otherwise it's in the air

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. Four words, chosen carefully... Off To The Greatest Page With You!

I voted for him. I didn't agree with LOTS of things he said during the campaign. Conversely, I didn't agree with LOTS of things Hillary Clinton said during the campaign. My only choice was to vote for the Democrat I disagreed with less.

I think the Democratic Party could have done much better with the candidates they put up for the general election.

[katkat]

88. Hillary

I didn't like many of Hillary's stated policies. So I voted for Obama, and wound up with Hillary's policies...

[impik]

74. He's a GREAT president. The "Left" is going to miss him very much

After they'll destroy him.

[Lindsey]

75. Let's see what he's done in LESS than one year in office:

Approved Stem Cell Research
Is turning the devastating job loss situation around-and doing all he can to create jobs
Getting Health Care reform farther along than it's every been -and I know not EVERYBODY is going to get EVERYTHING they want - some people need to grow up-that's reality
Pulling troops out of Iraq
Believes in Global Warming and is in the process of taking action
That's just off the top of my sleepy head (it's after 12 in L.A.)
Oh, and as far as Afghan. goes - He CAMPAIGNED that he was going address what should have been addressed
eight years ago - I bet he finds Osama Bin Laden and will COMPETENTLY deal with Al Queda

For all of the folks out there on DU that have been so horrifically viscous to him - think one thing - would you prefer McCain/Palin?

I wonder what they'd be doing about now?

And wasn't it GREAT having Bush/Cheney for eight years?




:sarcasm:

[katkat]

91. Lindsey

Let's look at what he hasn't done/other choices:

Damn little about global warming, whose train has now probably left the station.
Appoints Salazar, friend of rape mining and poor ranching practices, as Interior Secretary.
Rich still get fat tax breaks when that money is desperately needed.
Says we can't afford the money for much job creation but we can afford tons of money for war when the country owes its gonads to the Chinese and the financial system is in real danger from huge and increasing government debt.
Lets torturers go free.
Trashes Constitution with Patriot act, etc.
We still seem to be in Iraq at high troop levels.
Ignores promise to help low income seniors with a tax break.
Nothing of substance done about Medicare donut hole or letting Medicare negotiate prescription prices, a huge cost to the government.

Yeah, he'll find bin Laden :eyes: like I care or that's worth one more American life or one more American dollar, let alone the thousands of lives and billions of dollars he's pissing away trying to do it. Read up on Pyhrric victories.

[defendandprotect]

149. Re-regulate capitalism . . .

Stop wiretapping which is Un-Constitutional --

The FISA law itself, which has now been expanded, is Un-Constitutional --

End "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the military --

Provide Americans with universal health care --

Rid the Justice Department of Bush clones --

Get our government agencies out of corporate hands --

End corporate control over government/Congress --

Fairness in Broadcasting Act --

Put Welfare Guarantees back in place --

and many more ...

Has anyone so far heard Obama even mention America's "homeless" . . . ??

Impoverished children . . . ???

:blush:

[impik]

162. Here's MUCH more:

Completely restored US image in the world.
Made the biggest investment in renewable energy EVER.
The biggest investment in education EVER.
The biggest investment in infrastructure since the 50s.
Signed to low equal pay for women.
Expended health care for kids.
Signed the Hate Crimes bill, that was stuck for 10 years.
Nominated the first Latina to the Supreme Court.
Working as hard and as responsibly as he can on closing Guantanamo.

And even made the largest investment in ART and culture in decades: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34317564/ns/politics-white_house/?ocid=twitter

And this too just off the top of my sleepy head. :)

This is one of the most productive first year of any administration ever. People here are hypocrites and disingenuous as can be.

[HipChick]

76. I'm going to be shallow...

I'd rather look and listen to Obama than that Palin chick...she cooks my grits:nuke:

[Kind of Blue]

80. Perfect man for the job! n/t

[Orsino]

84. I think we may have gotten the best possible president from the pool of candidates...

...weighing such things as electability, intelligence, charisma and morality.

I think we may even have gotten the best president ever. He's still wrong to escalate in Afghanistan.

[defendandprotect]

138. And do you ever give any thought to who controls that "pool of candidates" . . . ???

Granted, I understand that Americans want to be proud of their president --

especially nice to have someone who can construct a sentence -- but overall

we're here to defend and protect freedom and democracy --

and keep in mind our Constitution and founders allow for -- in fact, recommend --

regular revolution.

Those who want a protective bubble over Obama and Democrats seem to be completely

ignoring the threat of fascism in America -- which is basically here at the threshold --

and is inherent in elitism and corporatism.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

89. He sure does talk pretty,

I will give him that :patriot:

[bdamomma]

130. and he has a nice smile!!!!

but do not agree with the escalation.

[McCamy Taylor]

90. His likability got him elected. I think he needs to learn that it is ok NOT to be liked by all.

We do not need another W. We need someone willing to tackled tough issues without fear of backlash.

[calico1]

98. I agree with your statement.

I do think that he feels the need to be liked by everyone or to try and make everybody happy. If you think about Presidents who were strong leaders like FDR or LBJ (domestically) a lot of people disliked them. But they were effective leaders. You have to risk being disliked and even hated by some if you are going to be a strong leader. I wish Obama would stop trying to make everyone like him. He had Repubs over for the SuperBowl last year, He invited Right Wing journalists over for dinner. He threw a reception honoring John McCain. He's had cocktail parties and invited Repubs over. And how far has that gotten him? They still trash him and undermine him every chance they get. He needs to realize it is okay to not be liked by everyone. That doesn't make you a failure as a leader. Enough already with being nice to Republicans. This is what frustrates me about him.

[impik]

164. The Right threat to kill him, and the Left just hate him. Yes, everybody likes him...

[tandot]

94. Completely agree. Thanks, Writer!

:hi:

[Richd506]

95. K & R

[AzNick]

100. Said it several times

People whine too much and need to consider the alternative.

[defendandprotect]

140. We need to change the "alternatives" -- the options -- "Change" is about improving things ...

not a downward spiral so many here fear --

Do you think the founders recommended a revolution every twenty years because

they feared "change" ... or didn't understand the need for improvement?

What we have is too much fear-based discussion of alternatives --

[Deja Q]

103. He says he likes to know what he's talking about.

Like you, I'll keep my faith alive.

[natrat]

105. It's sad that the extent of conversation is "i am proud..."etc for you people

[derby378]

108. I like Obama, too

I have my list, and yes, it is a long list. But I do hope that Obama is able to succeed as the first President who won the election far and square since 1996.

[abelenkpe]

110. Yeah I like him too

I don't like that so far the health care plan put forward seems to include mandates but may not include a public option and that it won't take effect for a few more years. There is still time for this plan to be improved upon and I write practically everyday urging my reps to fight for what is best for the working class. Millions of working class families have lost their jobs this past year. Others have had their wages slashed and yet more fear layoffs this year. Think of all the families with children who have lost their health care due to job loss. That is why I would like to see Medicare opened up for all those who have lost their health care due to this economic crisis now as an emergency measure. Otherwise no matter what form reform takes it will leave millions out in the cold.

I also don't like that the bailout plan has been extended for another year. Why is it that big failed businesses can receive help after decimating our economy, squeezing their remaining customers with fees and laying off thousands of workers last year?

I also don't like that we have not closed down Guantanamo. That our troops have not come home from Iraq. That we are expanding the war in Afghanistan.

I voted for Obama. I am proud to have him in office. I like him as a person. I like his family. His election certainly is better than the alternative of having that idiot femme fatale anywhere near a position of power. But I am not happy about many policy decisions that I feel benefit big business and the military industrial complex while leaving the working class out in the cold.

[liberation]

111. How is being a pragmatist a good quality for a politician...

... the whole basis for the existence of politics is the concept of ideology. Praising a politician for being a pragmatist, it is like congratulating a pope on its agnosticism.

Also, please quit it with the red herrings. This has nothing to do with Obama as a person, I am sure Bush was one heck of a nice guy to have a beer with (not my type of crowd, but that is the argument I heard as a desperate attempt at whitewashing the guy's policies and disastrous directions he was taking the country). Again it is not about the person, but the actions of this administration.

The guy seems pretty smart and likeable, plus he is one hell of a good speaker... and I am sure Mrs. Obama is one classy intelligent lady, and the kids are adorable. That still does diddle squat to make me feel any better about the direction of the country is going. Less fluff and more substance, please. This whole "dear leader knows best" and "he is so smart and dreamy" fawning over, it is creepy and reeks of desperation.

As a country we need to realize that we need to get back to elect presidents, and stop dealing with the presidency and its election as a popularity contests for an open management position. If people can't seem to figure out that what works for a corporation does not necessarily work for public service (and vice versa) then we, as a democracy, have devolved down to the level of Mussolini's personal definition of fascism. Watch out, because "interesting" things happen when we get there...

[defendandprotect]

141. Exactly . . . !!!!

I'd just add that the people here who want to put a bubble over Obama and all

Democrats don't seem to understand that "politics" is the shadow cast over government

by corporations -- elitist interests --

:)

[MNDemNY]

113. Proudly UnReced, for the stupidity of the post.

No way should this silly thing be anywhere near the "greatest" page.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I will ALERT on my own post, to save you all the trouble!!!phiiiiiiit!!!!

[yellerpup]

114. I agree with you.

K&R!

[defendandprotect]

115. Did you think that Bush and Cheney weren't "intellient" and "thoughtful" . . .????

And you still think that Obama's main motivation is to help the American people?????

I think being naive isn't very helpful in electing politicians to run the country!!!

Putting corporations in charge of health care isn't helping Americans, it's undermining

democracy and a people's government --

[liberation]

118. The more things change...

... jeez didn't we just went through 8 years of one nice feller who would be lovely to have beers with, even though he was a recovering alcoholic?

Some people seem to be unable to distinguish between American Idol and the Office of the American President. Because they seem to have the same set of standards and expectations for both.

Obama is a very nice and bright man, no one really is disagreeing with that... unless you are some sort of insane racist T-bagger going off the deep end. OK, now what?

[irislake]

128. Who doesn't ?

He's so glamorous in every way. Very seductive. But all sizzle and no steak.

What a tragedy your country doesn't recognize the qualities of Dennis Kucinich.

[suzie]

142. Cowardice is not usually among the qualities that Americans prize highly.

Thus, Dennis Kucinich is unlikely to ever be recognized by this country.

[defendandprotect]

143. Now this is typical of the Dennis Kucinich attacks . . .

No one could be less of a coward than Dennis Kucinich --

he is basically one of only a handful attacking corporate fascism --

[suzie]

151. No, Dennis Kucinich is one of handful TALKING about attacking corporate fascism.

TALKING is what Kucinich does well--and it gains him applause from his adoring fans.

Courage is what it would have taken to have stood up to the Catholic Church and not have an anti-choice voting record of Henry Hyde proportions. Courage is what it also would have taken to have told the adoring "progressives", "Sorry if you dislike it, but I'm one of the most anti-choice legislators around and I'm not changing my stance because it will appeal to the crowds that I want to speak to."

People from the Kucinich cult love to blast Blue Dogs. Well, my blue dog representative, whom I don't agree with a lot of the time and who is in a pretty conservative area of the country, had the courage to vote for pro-choice measures that Dennis Kucinich voted against.

Speaking to adoring followers and saying angry stuff on talk shows is cheap and doesn't equate to courage. Putting yourself on the line for re-election--that's a kind of courage that Dennis Kucinich lacks.

The Kucinich cult can spin it however they want, the man is a coward and everyone in politics knows it.

[defendandprotect]

155. Did Pelosi stand up to the Catholic Church ...???

Was the day after the '06 election when Pelosi confirmed that Democrats were elected

to "end the wars" simply TALK . . . ???

Have we seen any de-funding of the wars since then?

Dennis Kucinich on Democracy Now! – House Passes Landmark ...
... voted against both the Affordable Health Care for America Act and the Stupak amendment. ... But we did something else: We were able to get a bill in the ...
dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/... - 191k - Cached

As far as I know, Dennis Kucinich voted AGAINST the Stupak Amendment ....

I think you're a bit confused -- ????

[suzie]

156. No, I don't believe so.

During the years in which the Republicans were in great control and doing their best to harm women's reproductive rights--and succeeding at it, Dennis K was solidly in their corner.

Now that Democrats are in charge and, temporarily, we don't have to fight our own government for women's rights at every turn, and when Dennis wants to be a national figure, he find the awesome courage to vote against the Stupak Amendment. An amendment which, according to those who didn't stand with the Republicans for years and against women, was never going to be included in the final bill.

Sorry, don't believe that I was confused. Dennis K. is a small guy with a loud voice, but he's also a huge coward.

[defendandprotect]

160. Kucinich is a strong supporter of CHOICE and all abortion rights . .. you're confused...

And I've just included a LINK telling you that he voted AGAINST the

Stupak Amendment ....

It is Harry Reid who is anti-abortion . . .

and John McCain who is anti-abortion . . . .

Here's also a further link that will make clear to you that Kucinich is rated

100% by NARAL

READ IT . . .

http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich_VoteMatch.htm


AND I'M REPEATING IT HERE FOR YOU . . .

Litmus test on Roe, but as part of a culture of life: Favors topic 1
Women’s right-to-choose is essential to gender equality: Strongly Favors topic 1
Abortions should always be legal: Strongly Favors topic 1
All men & women have right to make difficult moral decisions: Favors topic 1
Supreme Court nominees must agree to uphold Roe v. Wade: Strongly Favors topic 1
Women can’t be free unless they have the right to choose: Strongly Favors topic 1
Prevention, education, & health care, to minimize abortions: Opposes topic 1
Life begins at conception: Strongly Opposes topic 1
Journey in 2002 from pro-life to pro-choice: Favors topic 1
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record: Strongly Favors topic 1
Emergency contraception for rape victims at all hospitals: Favors topic 1
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance: Strongly Favors topic 1
Ensure access to and funding for contraception: Favors topic 1

VOTES . . .

YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion: Strongly Opposes topic 1
YES on banning partial-birth abortions: Opposes topic 1
YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad: Opposes topic 1
YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes: Opposes topic 1
NO on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions: Strongly Favors topic 1
YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research: Favors topic 1
YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines: Favors topic 1

[suzie]

171. After he's a long-term incumbent and after he decided that since he's not likable

enough to ever obtain a statewide office he would become a faux national candidate, Dennis Kucinich suddenly decided that he had the courage to be pro-choice.

Up until that time, his voting record was the opposite of the list that you just presented. He voted against allowing military women to have abortions overseas in military hospitals, even when paid for with their own funds.

He was too cowardly to face a national constituency with his virulently anti-woman stances, so poof!, he changed. The man is a supreme coward.

And to my mind a despicable one for his whining attacks in 2004 on all the other Democratic candidates who'd been long-term supporters of women's rights--when they were severely under attack from Republicans.

[defendandprotect]

173. I'm not going to argue with anyone who is a staunch supporter of women's right to abortion -- !!!

I'm not familiar with Kucinich back then --

but many politicians have changed -- from anti positions to pro-choice --

many Repugs also changed from Pro-Choice to anti --

Any male who isn't talking about someone in their own family, IMO, should remove themselves

from the debate --

:)

[TwentyFive]

133. Agreed. President Obama must PICK HIS BATTLES

His main concern is living to fight another day.

[katandmoon]

137. You can have him.

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

150. Thank you...

While there have been, and will continue to be disappointments, when you consider what the alternatives were, I'm glad he's the one in office. (and I supported Hillary in the primaries.

While we're not going to get nearly as much as we want, I believe he'll get us more than anybody else would have.

[jpak]

152. Me too!

:pompoms:

[yeswecanandwedid]

157. My name is Jonathan, and I approve this post. nt

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

158. This has degraded to high school Prom Queen fights.

I have been a long time lurker at this site and just recently joined to be able to add my two cents.
In the past we bashed Bush & Co. all to our liking. Some was fun, some were over the top, some right on cue.
I felt represented, needing not - my input.

I thought by discussing policies we would be able to get some consensus, a gelling of thought. Some will present one view,
others another. Adult conversation. This shit, this has degraded to high school Prom Queen fights.

I voted for Obama. I voted for Progressive ideas. I got sold a load of crap and I bought it, willingly.
That's fine, That's ok. I can admit that I was, maybe, wrong but the alternative was worse.

I'm willing to give my choice (Obama) a little leeway, a chance, if you choose. He inherited a fucking mess.
No, I don't agree with his choices for most of the policies. BUT... I'm not in Washington, I have no fucking idea what's
the worlds situation. Tell me, tho, I will only respond if you have a "Cosmic Crypto" security clearance.

How did this even make it to "The Greatest"? If this just a popularity poll ... Go to CNN.

I can't believe with all the real policy issues we need to rationally discuss this is even getting rec's or unrec's.
I can't believe I even wasted my time responding.

[Sky Masterson]

159. Kiss A$$

;) :hi:

[Geek_Girl]

167. I like him too he is smart and a shrewd politician just his policies suck

nt

[ProgressOnTheMove]

169. One thing that also helps with Obama he's truly blessed as every time you count him out he makes a

comeback.

[Forkboy]

170. Trusting any politician is your first mistake, be it DK or Obama or anyone else.

[Unvanguard]

175. Me, too. I'm still part of that half of the country that does. n/t