ACLU chief: "If there has been change in the civil liberties context, I frankly don't see it."

[30rock]

To those who are attempting to minimize the ACLU's negative view on President Obama's handling of civil liberty issues, these are the direct words of their #1 guy, executive director Anthony Romero two months ago:

"It's 18 months and, if not now, when? ... Guantanamo is still not closed. Military commissions are still a mess. The administration still uses state secrets to shield themselves from litigation. There's no prosecution for criminal acts of the Bush administration. Surveillance powers put in place under the Patriot Act have been renewed. "If there has been change in the civil liberties context, I frankly don't see it."

He also said to be "digusted."

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010/06/romero_blasts_obama_on_civil_l.php

Let me add my opinion that if you "end torture" without prosecuting those who tortured, Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin will torture again if they win, because they will not fear the law.

[merh]

1. Sadly, I have to agree with him.

Is he one of those "professional lefties" and does my agreeing with him make me one as well?

[boppers]

16. Is his paycheck dependent on his level of outrage?

I'm pretty sure that the president of the ACLU is at the "professional" level.

[merh]

19. LOL - you would be wrong

But that's okay. I'm sure debating the righties who don't understand the ACLU any more than you do can cause a whole lot of confusion.

Litigating for the rights of others does not equal outrage, you do know that, don't you?

[boppers]

21. $365,701 dollars say you're wrong.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/3247.htm

They're paid quite handsomely.

[merh]

29. Do you even know what the ACLU does?

The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

That is not a leftie job, that is the job of a patriot - an American. The ACLU doesn't just help lefties, they even help out righties.

[boppers]

30. They argue often across political the spectrum, yes. And they profit handsomely from it.

There are entire industries, "professions" even, based on whipping people up into a frenzy and then asking them for money.

Who said they only help lefties?

[Exilednight]

31. They really don't make that much money ...................

My father started out as business lawyer and made tens of millions. After he made his money he became a civil-rights attorney and made a minute fraction of what he made as a business lawyer.

[merh]

35. Thank you for your input.

Also, just because they work to defend people's rights and to protect everyone's civil rights and get paid to do it doesn't mean they are professional lefties.

[Exilednight]

48. Exactly. My father was a big believer in Voltaire's quote ..........

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[merh]

36. It is "their" industry, not "there" industry.

For the most part they are (they're) professional lawyers but that doesn't make them professional lefties.

[boppers]

37. Face+palm.

Do not attempt to correct grammar if you do not understand a sentence.

[merh]

38. I didn't correct your grammar, I made certain to explain to

you the profession. You shouldn't comment on a profession if you don't understand it.

If you are one of those people that believe the legal profession is a shameful profession then I can understand why you don't understand what the ACLU does.

They don't whip people into frenzies or cause outrage, they are there to help people who are outraged because their civil rights are violated or their constitutional rights infringed. If you care about the rights of others then you would be the one outraged and they would be there to help you.

[Paladin]

44. Take It To The Guns Forum.

Shit-canning the ACLU is appreciated down there. Up here in the Real World DU forums? Not so much.....

[boppers]

45. They do good work, and are paid well for it.

I don't object to their mission.

Their salaries is where I balk.

[Ignis]

41. Have you ever donated to the ACLU?

If not, why not? :shrug:

I've been a card-carrying member for decades, because they're often at the forefront of the battles to protect the civil rights of all Americans, not simply those we like.

[boppers]

46. Once or twice, but no more.

I got older and learned how many "charities" and "non-profits" were basically factories for the professionally outraged/indignant/whatever. They're more than happy to take your money, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to themselves, and then tell you they're doing it for the little guy.

Some of their top folk, and their wages:
Anthony Romero: $365,701
Steven Shapiro: $273,879
Donna McKay: $243,748
Karen Curry: $236,268

Yeah, they totally protect the rights of all Americans.... especially when it comes to the "right" of fleecing them.

[Ignis]

47. I agree that's the case with some charities, but you can do research...

...to see how well your chosen charity spends the money it's given.

Try the following resources:
charitynavigator.org
charitywatch.org

That's one of the reasons I do most of my non-political/activist charitable donation through Oxfam: they have a great ratio for such a large NGO.

[Cha]

50. It's exactly at his level of outrage..(edit: to add the OP is busy eating pizza)

He's a professional left.

[Scurrilous]

52. 30rock cancelled?

Nooooo...

:o

[FrenchieCat]

2. Who is this ACLU "Chief".....cause I didn't know they had one!

Oh...I see this is from June,
and represents one person's opinion,
and is from Politico,
and you forgot to mention the July report.

But ok......twist that. :eyes:

[ProSense]

3. So he said that to Politico in June, and then

the ACLU issued this report in July?

[30rock]

5. That doesn't contradict my link. They cite "positive steps in some areas"

While you focus on "some areas," I focus on the big picture. Romero spoke about Obama's handling of civil liberties in general terms.

Do we want to look at the big picture or a portion of the whole? I never said the ACLU has criticized everything Obama has done.

[ProSense]

7. It's an absolute contradiction, there has been significant change. n/t

[30rock]

9. Wrong. The "significant" adjective referred specifically to the release of a memo

You made up the "significant change" quote that doesn't exist. And omit that they said, "a significant achievement was followed by a step back: the administration reversed its decision to comply with a court decision ordering the release of photos depicting the abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Again, your looking at parts of their opinion weakens your argument.

[FrenchieCat]

8. So if there's a full report from July, why post the Chief's opinion from June

when we are in August?

And why not balance your OP instead of giving us just the negative?
What's your agenda exactly?

Why choose negative quotes from a June article to post as your 93rd post?

[30rock]

10. Because Romero never said, "oops, I change my mind." and the July report does not contradict him

Do opinion have expiration dates? Also, you assume that the July report praised Obama in general terms, when in fact it praises some areas and criticizes others. The July report does not contradict Romero's big picture comment.

[ProSense]

11. No, it's an attempt to prove that Gibbs was wrong by

showing that Obama is the same as Bush.

[FrenchieCat]

12. So what is the reason you decided to post this June Interview with

(fuck) Politico? Any reason different from Politico's at the time that they published it?

[Radical Activist]

25. You created a false impression with your post

that the ACLU sees no change in civil liberties issues. That simply isn't true. You didn't provide any clarifying comments or details in your post that would have told the whole story.
This is the kind of dishonesty that just pisses people off and doesn't help advance any issue.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. Drug test this motherfucker STAT!

[FrenchieCat]

6. Are you OK?

[enough]

13. Boy the un-reccers seem to be busy on this one.

[rug]

14. Professionals never rest.

[FrenchieCat]

15. Tell that to the group that unrecs me and

brags about it over at their pig pen!

[rug]

26. That's unprofessional.

[havocmom]

17. So get the word out about this thread and show them critical thinkers outnumber them

Because we do.

[merh]

20. LOL, in this forum who would expect otherwise?

This thread would be full of recommends if it were in GD.

The folks that refuse to admit that Obama isn't perfect, the ones that make it more difficult for the rest of us because they protect Obama the way the right protected Bush, live and breath his wonder in this forum. Criticism is not recommended, if they had their way, it wouldn't be allowed.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ignis]

42. ^^^ The difference between GD and GDP is amazing sometimes.

Perhaps it's because most sane DUers stay out of this forum. :P

[Radical Activist]

23. ACLU: "the administration has taken positive steps and made genuine progress"

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/EstablishingNewNormal.pdf

[seaglass]

39. Did you actually read the report? n/t

[bvar22]

24. K&R

:patriot:

[Political Tiger]

27. "according to blogger Marcy Wheeler of Firedoglake.com"

In an interview with POLITICO, Romero confirmed the gist of the quote, though he emphasized it wasn't intended as an ad hominem attack.

"I'm not disgusted at President Obama personally. It's President Obama's policies on civil liberties and national security issues I'm disgusted by. It's not a personal attack," Romero said.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0610/ACLU_chief_disgusted_with_Obama.html?showall

---------------------- meanwhile......

Politico Thinks You Are Rubes
by Alan Grayson

Touched a nerve, did we? I think so. We pointed out on Tuesday that Politico is funded almost entirely by corporate dollars, and surprisingly, that it consistently attacks Democrats.

Here is Politico 'reporter' Ben Smith's response. "I'd comment on how ludicrous this is, and the degree to which it assumes his donors are rubes, but I should probably check in with Boeing first to see if that's OK."

Actually, it's not Boeing. Yesterday's issue was brought to you by BP (p. 2), and of course, Goldman Sachs (full page, back page, as usual).

And let's look at the substance. Yesterday, the New York Times has a front-page article titled 'U.S. Military to Press for Slower Afghan Drawdown'. On the the front page of Politico's website, by contrast, you could find a penetrating analysis of 'Snooki versus POTUS'. There was also great news about how Robert Gibbs and innumerable pseudo-scandals showing that Democrats are divided.

The lobbyists' favorite vapid gossip sheet is attacking you because we stand against giving their corporate friends the keys to power. We've already reaised $44,016 from over 1,250 people for our money bomb. I know we can do more because 'rubes' like us punch back.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/notes/alan-grayson/politico-thinks-you-are-rubes/144091608947160

[30rock]

28. You disagree with Romero even after that distinction is made

You tell us that Romero's comment was not ad-hominem, but aimed at Obama's policies. why is that relevant to you if you disagree with Romero anyway? Or are you going to tell me that you think Obama's policies have brought no change?

It is clear from his quote that the attack was aimed at Obama's policies. Isn't what what we are talking about anyway?

And note how you try to make this about Politico instead of Romero.

[TheKentuckian]

32. Because their talking point strategy is wholly dependent specious nonsense, bulldogging flotsam,

redbaiting, rehashed Faux rhetoric, repetition, double talk, hanging on for dear life on minutia, and religious like demagogy and zealotry.

Because content isn't important if they can seek to have the messenger discredited.

One time there was a post that quoted the President but was put on auto-blast because the source was Fox (which is who did the interview so...).

That is the kind of silly season with sources is here.

[Radical Activist]

40. People should be very skeptical when reading Politico.

They have an agenda. If I see something interesting then I try to confirm it with another source. Anything in Politico that isn't a direct quote by someone should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

34. Unrec for failed attempt to recycle two month old Politico hit piece...

in order to smear Obama.

At least try to make them legit, eh.

[ProSense]

43. ACLU: "the Obama administration has made significant progress in some areas"

That's official.

[KakistocracyHater]

49. terrible but true

*

[grantcart]

51. well he should talk to ICE

So far this year ICE apprehensions of non criminal undocumented aliens in the Southwest sector = one.


Number of 'voluntary repatriations' has been radically reduced and those sent through the system so that they WILL be provided a lawyer up significantly.