Debt commission: "like a cancer that will destroy the country from within"

[DCBob]

From Wash Post..

"There are many who hope we fail," Simpson said at the closing session of the National Governors Association meeting. He called the 18-member commission "good people with deep, deep differences" who know the odds of success "are rather harrowing."

Bowles said that unlike the current economic crisis, which was largely unforeseen before it hit in the fall of 2008, the coming fiscal calamity is staring the country in the face. "This one is as clear as a bell," he said. "This debt is like a cancer."

The commission leaders said that, at present, available federal revenues are fully consumed by just three programs: Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. "The rest of the federal government, including fighting two wars, homeland security, education, art, culture, you name it, veterans, the whole rest of the discretionary budget is being financed by China and other countries," Simpson said.

We can't grow our way out of this," Bowles said. "We could have decades of double digit growth and not grow our way out of this enormous debt problem. We can't tax our way out . . . The reality is we've got to do exactly what you all do every day as governors. We've got to cut spending or increase revenues or do some combination of that."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/11/AR2010071101956.html?hpid=topnews


I agree with their assesment that the debt is a serious critical problem. However, there are no easy solutions but it also cannot be ignored. The numbers are too scary..

[jody]

1. Government debt is just another name for future taxes. n/t

[DCBob]

2. Bowles said.. "We can't tax our way out "..

I agree with that. Taxes are not enough.

[jody]

17. Our nation, its economy, & government was built one small business at a time from the foundation up.

That happened without a blueprint or plan, just a brief sketch called a Constitution fueled by the blood, sweat, and tears of millions.

I don't believe current political leaders advised by economists and financiers have a clue how to rebuild that structure which is in shambles.

[OhioBlue]

31. He said

"we can't grow our way out"

[mikekohr]

49. THE LAST 3 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS CAUSED NEARLY 100% OF OUR INCREASE IN THE DEBT SINCE 1981

Every President, from Truman to Carter, steadily paid down the staggering debt that was run up in our fight against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. That pattern came to a screeching halt with Reagan/Bush and Bush. Clinton’s fiscal policy was a brief respite during this orgy of deficit spending.

Clinton balanced 5 budgets, which is 5 times as many balanced budgets as the last 5 Republican presidents combined.


President Obama, like President Clinton, inherited a sea of red ink and a recession from his predecessor. He, like President Clinton, recognizes the importance of getting America back to work and then getting our fiscal house in order.


?

See National Debt Graph @: http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


mike kohr

[Skittles]

3. stop the wars

[DCBob]

4. You could stop both wars today and it would still not be enough..

The debt numbers are just too big.

[sandnsea]

8. Because we have to raise taxes

To pay for them and raise them even higher because Bush didn't do it to begin with.

Balancing social security and medicare with FICA taxes is fine. Using FICA to balance the federal budget for ten years, and then not paying it back, is not fine.

[Mimosa]

13. ^ exactly so ^

The question is where to cut spending.

[golfguru]

23. What is the actual history of highly taxed countries?

That should be a clue whether it is a desirable path.
History is your best teacher.

[sandnsea]

25. Yes, history is the best teacher.

Why don't you see what the tax rate was during WWII and even WWI.

We are not anywhere near highly taxed.

[golfguru]

36. I arrived in this country in 1970...

so educate me on tax rates before that

[sandnsea]

39. My apologies

This is a very good overview. To make one point, Republicans always bring up Kennedy cutting taxes to advocate tax cuts. Well yeah, he cut the top margin from around 90% to 70%. Because much of WWII had been paid for. Our economy hasn't been this out of kilter since the last Gilded Era, back in the 1890s.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml

[golfguru]

41. some day I would like to have a long discussion

about taxes with you...too late tonight..good night

[mikekohr]

50. -Why Does Republican Economic Policy ALWAYS Expand the National Debt?-

The answer is simple mathematics: "INCREASED SPENDING + decreased revenue ='s increased yearly deficits.



?


click on this link to view expanded view of above graph:
http://cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm



The two biggest promises of "Trickle Down Economics" are it's greatest failings. Proponents of "Trickle Down Economics” claim that tax cuts, skewed to the rich, will create jobs and increase tax revenues. The graph above disproves the latter claim.

Job creation plummets under "Trickle Down Economics see http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/job ...

And nine of the last ten recessions have occurred under Republican leadership see http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/his ...

Two things are certain to grow when a Republican is in the White House, unemployment and the National Debt.

By contrast, "Bubble Up" economnic priciples practiced by Democratic Administrations put people to work, rev up the economy, and balance the Nation's ledger books. Every time. No exceptions.


mike kohr
Bureau County Democrats

[peacebird]

10. Stop both wars now - might not solve the problem, but it would definitely HELP

Stop all funding of Iraq and Afghanistan. Pull our troops out immediately.

[DCBob]

15. That would help no doubt but you know its not going to happen anytime soon.

Reality.

[Kltpzyxm]

45. Exactly

and have the rich pay their fair share.

[joe black]

27. Can't tax the rich bastards huh?

[fascisthunter]

5. fighting two wars and having bases around the World are the main reason

but of course only those services that aid life will be cut, while budgets that include fighting and death will go unchanged. Remember, we all pay into social security and it's our fucking money... so the money should already be there.

[DCBob]

7. That a big part but just a part of the problem..

[fascisthunter]

14. Sorry, but I severely doubt the numbers for our military bugdet

The pie chart below is the government view of the budget. This is a distortion of how our income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (e.g., Social Security), and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending. For a more accurate representation of how your Federal income tax dollar is really spent, see the large chart (top).



U.S. Military Spending vs. The World

U.S. military spending – Dept. of Defense plus nuclear weapons (in $billions) – is equal to the military spending of the next 15 countries combined.

These numbers show military expenditures for each country. Some say that U.S. military spending will naturally be higher because it has the highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of any country. The United States accounts for 47 percent of the world’s total military spending, however the U.S.’s share of the world's GDP is about 21 percent. Also note that of the top 15 countries shown, at least 12 are considered allies of the U.S. The U.S. outspends Iran and North Korea by a ratio of 72 to one.



http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

[DCBob]

16. Totally agree we spend way too much on the military, but even if you cut them back..

to arrows and slingshots its still not near enough.

[fascisthunter]

19. then take the money from those that took most of it

tax the rich the way they should be taxed. The rest of us have sacrificed enough and we certainly did not create this debt, the parasites have, and they are getting away with it all.

[joe black]

28. Alan is that you?

[sandnsea]

6. If FICA is meeting social security & medicare

Then they aren't the problem.

If federal taxes can't meet the cost of TWO WARS, then raise those taxes like we did in every other war.

People would get a lot farther if they would take this approach than the stupid catfood commission garbage.

[KingFlorez]

9. The defense budget needs to come way down

Once the wars are through, that frees up some money, but defense spending needs to be sharply cut. We are spending far more than is necessary for security.

[DCBob]

12. Totally agree, but thats just part of the solution.

Need more.. the deficit and the debt are huge numbers.

[eridani]

11. "Largely unforseen" by the useless parasites he is pimping for n/t

[brentspeak]

20. Bowles' belief that the economic crisis was "largely unforseen" proves he is incompetent or crooked

or both

[fascisthunter]

21. good catch

[Samantha]

29. That is exactly what I was thinking

People here on DU were warning of this about 2 years before it happened.

Sam

[Bluenorthwest]

24. "Largely unforseen"?!?!?!?

Is Condi Rice writing speeches for this guy?

[Turbineguy]

18. Stop the wars

Do not raise taxes

Recruit Taxpayers (stop exporting jobs and creating unemployed).

[Bluenorthwest]

22. End the wars.

Or don't talk about taking from the people.

[donco6]

26. Yeah yeah, we get the message:

"Social Security and Medicare have to go."

That's pretty much your point, right?

[IndianaGreen]

30. Frak the middle class by taking mortgage deduction away. Frak the seniors. Frak all of us!

I just got an e-mail from a friend:

BOSTON — The heads of President Barack Obama's national debt commission painted a gloomy picture Sunday as the United States struggles to get its spending under control.

Republican Alan Simpson and Democrat Erskine Bowles told a meeting of the National Governors Association that everything needs to be considered — including curtailing popular tax breaks, such as the home mortgage deduction, and instituting a financial trigger mechanism for gaining Medicare coverage.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jjH33p-VSyKEXwM6yjjxjCxgZ7lAD9GT2LM80

Cutting or eliminating the mortgage deduction, a major hit to middle class families, and basing Medicare on income rather than age, a major betrayal to all seniors.

And they have the audacity to tell us to vote for them Blue Dogs and Conserva Dems!

[DCBob]

43. You will probably get your wish.. nothing much is going to change.. this issue is too controversial.

And the problem with continue to fester and slowly but surely bring this country to its knees.

It reminds me of the climate change debate.. the crisis is there and obvious but we cant agree on what to do about it. But the crisis does not care.. its just keeps getting worse.

[depakid]

32. No matter how many times the deficit hawks are debunked they keep coming back

like Zombies.

And some wonder why there's a growing perception that Obama's planning on doing to social security what Clinton did to welfare?

As to Erskine Bowles- he's a useless hack who believes his own propaganda, and if he thinks the economic crisis was "unforeseeable" then he's absolutely unqualified to be on any such commission.

[DCBob]

33. He said it was "largely unforeseen" which is true.

Few understood the complexities of how mortage backed derivatives worked and the huge risks involved.

[depakid]

34. Plenty of people understood how they worked- and what the systemic problems were

and as to the problems with underlying mortgages- the FBI issue warnings in 2004 about widespread fraud that were squelched by the Bush administration- but not before having come to the attention of various media outlets.

Willfully gnoring something- and not foreseeing it are two different matters.

Sadly, the same regulators (some of whom were obviously corrupt) are still at the helm. Hell, the failed regulator at FINRA is now running the SEC!

[BuelahWitch]

38. I call BS on that

Do some research in the Economy Group here on DU. They were predicting this stuff years before it happened.

[Dr.Phool]

40. Likewise, in the daily Stock Market Watch thread.

The only people who were clueless were, Simpson, Greenspan, Geithner, Bernanke, et al.

[DCBob]

42. BS back to you.. Did they predict it would cause a worldwide economic collapse?

Please provide link. If true they deserve an award.

[Citizen Worker]

35. How about closing the foreign military bases we maintain?

At last count there were somewhere around 750 acknowledged bases. Close 'em all, bring all of the troops home and close the curtain on empire.

[BuelahWitch]

37. Yes, the debt commission IS a cancer

that will destroy the country from within.
I'm sure some of these guys are pals of Dick Cheney. Didn't he say something like deficits don't matter?

[DCBob]

44. Sure, and the anonymous economics "geniuses" here at DU have all the answers.

You and the others here will probably get your wish.. the commission will probably not do anything.. its just too f'king controversial... but the debt crisis will continue unabated until it really does destroy this country.

[w4rma]

46. Step out of your ivory tower. Many well-written "economic geniuses" oppose what the Catfood

Commission plans to do.

[DCBob]

47. The commission hasnt "planned" to do anything yet..

How about giving them a chance to develop their recommendations before blowing them off entirely?

[w4rma]

48. How about, instead, we don't fall for that trick and we just look at the histories of the

majority of the members of the Catfood Commission? We know *exactly* what plan they will come up with. We know how the deck is stacked.

[NorthCarolina]

51. +1000 n/t

[DCBob]

52. You know "exactly".. hehe. Please list out "exactly" their plan..

Then lets revisit when the plan actually comes out.

[donco6]

54. Yeah and it will be the fault of SS, not wars or tax cuts or defense spending

Or any other bloated budget item, right?

[Vinca]

53. How about bringing our jobs back from overseas?

More tax revenues, more SS and Medicare contributions.