I'm not a history buff but I have to say President Obama

[Top Cat]

who I support completely has had more SHIT TO CLEAN UP then any other president that I recall at one time in modern history.

[elleng]

1. Ditto

[lsewpershad]

37. Ditto +1000

[ZombieHorde]

2. What method do you use to measure shit?

Another question: Which is more important, the quantity of shit, or the quality of shit?

[Top Cat]

4. SHIT IS SHIT HOWEVER YOU QUALIFY IT...

[ZombieHorde]

5. How did you measure the shit? nt

[liberation]

106. Pulled it out of his ass? nt

[LiberalFighter]

24. It would be easier to count the nuimber of days that BushCo didn't shit.

[Hekate]

28. That would take the dipshit measuring stick. nt

[ZombieHorde]

55. Funny. nt

[wolfgangmo]

145. That reminds me of a story.

My mother once had a little political spat (mom ran a newspaper and called a spade a #$%$#& spade) with another figure in our town. A mutual friend went to bat for the other person one day and said that they were a pretty good person and meant well (etc.). Mom asked her friend how tall the other guy was. When her friend said, "he's about 6 feet tall," mom cracked back "I didn't know you could pile shit that high." Mom died afew years back - I really miss her.

8 years is one looooooooooooooooong dump.

[Enthusiast]

63. Obama has had the highest

quantity of quality shit.

[ZombieHorde]

110. How did you measure the shit's quality? nt

[ElboRuum]

130. Texture, density, and aroma. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

136. I was thinking a blind taste test was used. nt

[Top Cat]

152. Nasty

[Top Cat]

3. It makes me so angry and then to listen to all the bullshit across the airways

takes it to another level.

[tekisui]

6. Definitely once-in-a-generation pile of shit.

[angee_is_mad]

7. ain't that the truth!

shit keeps coming at him from all directions. I can understand why his hair is gray.

The brotha can't come up for air. But I guess that what it means to be commander in chief.

[Top Cat]

8. I guess...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. yes

[Bitwit1234]

10. AND has more obstruction and criticism from the republicans

than they even gave President Clinton, and that was enough.

[angee_is_mad]

14. the republicans are the least of his problems

you know what to expect from them. Ignorance, triflinASSness, back and front stabbing.
When your own turns on you, it takes it to another level.

[Mathilda]

30. Trust me. We liberals don't have that much power

While you might see liberals as a bigger problem than Republicans, I disagree.

[elleng]

46. Agree!

[Top Cat]

99. You are so right... Many who voted the President in office quickly turned their back on him..

[Mathilda]

31. Newt Gingrich shut down the government,and they impeached Clinton

We tend to forget.

[Enthusiast]

66. Yeah, see my post number 65. nt

[GoddessOfGuinness]

97. They didn't impeach Clinton until they took over Congress...

If they manage to take it back, you can be sure they'll do everything they can to try to impeach Obama. Why? Because we didn't impeach Bushco. :grr:

[Enthusiast]

65. Enough? Every channel of

my TV and radio could have been titled the "The 24/7 Let's get Clinton Program". It was ridiculous. Chris Matthews was horrible, had four anti-Clinton guests to one in support, but he was the most leftish Clinton criticizer available to listen to. They seldom said anything to support Clinton.

[PassingFair]

11. Poor bastard!

I don't envy him his position.

[Jennicut]

12. LOL. I could use a cig right now and have never smoked a day in my life.

[pnorman]

18. Thanks for that image!

I'll be using it soon enough1

[vaberella]

22. Perfect depiction.

:rofl:

[madmax]

41. +1

[Uzybone]

100. LOL. Great pic. MAD magazine still has it.

[Forkboy]

13. Clinton had just as much adversity, if not more.

[Pirate Smile]

16. Oh, come on...Clinton did not have the same degree of economic and foreign policy catastrophes

dropped in his lap from before he even took office that Obama did.

[scheming daemons]

17. Really? World was at relative peace in 1992, VERY mild recession was ending

Not even in the same ballpark.

[obxhead]

38. as well as the BOOM of the internet and PC industry. nt

[jobycom]

67. According to Wiki, there were twelve wars going on when Clinton took over.

He had a stake in a couple. We had troops in Somolia and Bosnia. Add to that the threat of terrorism he inherited after Reagan/Bush pissed off the world, the first WTC bombing, the right wing militia movement, the domestic anti-abortion terrorists, the Waco situation...

Add to that the largest deficit the world had ever seen, the largest debt the world had ever seen, a stagnant economy, the banking crisis, high unemployment...

Clinton took over just as bad a situation as Obama. People forget that because he handled it so well that by the end we were in one of the most prosperous periods this nation has ever seen.

[MadMaddie]

23. Clinton had the Newt Gingrich pact with America bullshit

and that he could have dealt with. If he would have kept his pants zipped up he would have been better off.

President Obama is dealing with America's past and current racist and hate mongering state of mind. No matter what he does they will always say the opposite even if it was their own idea. The MSM is trying any way it can to foster some story to see if it will stick.

It's bullshit we all knew what they were going to do. It's a shame that they put their ideology first before the country.

[moondust]

25. Not even close.

No ongoing wars, no near-Depression, no corporate-backed Teabagger movement, no Fox News or other significant 24/7 wingnut propaganda outlets, few if any lockstep filibusters, no racism... He did have a lot of budgetary red ink to overcome but tax revenues were good during the prosperous computer and telecom booms of the 90s which, by the way, probably would have happened without him in the WH.

[Top Cat]

151. You are on POINT...

[treestar]

33. Um, no

:rofl:

[NatBurner]

36. lol sure, buddy

[grantcart]

43. Inherited shit not self inflicted wounds.

[jobycom]

68. Yep. Sad that so many people don't know our history.

"Our" meaning the nation's and the party's.

[impik]

80. Only FDR had it worse than Obama. This is not even debatable

by people who actually "know our history".

[Fearless]

95. Lincoln?

[Ishoutandscream2]

135. Agreed.

[jobycom]

144. Horse Hockey.

People used to say that about Bush when he took over, that he was hit with unprecedented disasters and couldn't be expected to handle them all. Both of them had odd problems, but so did a lot of other presidents. Clinton took over a nation on the verge of bankruptcy with so much government collapse that some people wanted him to charge his predecessor with fraud. The government was broke, we had the largest deficit and debt ever accumulated by any nation anywhere, the economy was in shambles, the banking industry was on the verge of collapse, wages and poverty were at their worst, he had worldwide famines to deal with, and he had nuclear powers shattering and leaving their weaponry available to rogue terrorists. We were under constant terrorist attack. We had troops in two wars and vested interests in several more. The world was a dangerous mess and some economists were predicting that America was finished as a world power. By the time he left we had turned all of that around, so people forget just how bad Reagan and HW screwed it all up.

Lincoln and the presidents just before and after him had a worse mess. Truman had it worse. Hoover had as bad a mess. Nixon, Ford, Carter... Obama didn't have it easy, but claiming he had it worse than anybody but FDR, is as you say, not debatable. It's just wrong.

[impik]

79. Yea, okay. Whatever.

[Top Cat]

102. You are wrong on that count... Obama has had obstacles that no other

US President has had to encounter the color of his skin for one. This has been a daily remainder by the wacko's... So no Clinton did not have this much adversity....

[redwitch]

I dunno. Bush had an awful lot of shit to clean up.

He created most of it but still. :-)

[Balbus]

15. I just wish he'd start cleaning instead of hiding it under a rug,

Or pushing it into a closet or sticking a flower in it and calling it a garden.

[babylonsister]

19. Do tell; what has been hidden, pushed, or sticked? I can't wait. nt

[jobycom]

73. What the fuck has he fixed? What the fuck has he not hidden?

Troops aren't coming home from Iraq because he gave a bogus timeline and has no plans to keep to it. Same with Afghanistan. He has both houses of Congress and he passed a weak-ass health care bill that has the insurance industry dancing in their mansions. He passed a stimulus bill that was half good and half supply-sided economics straight out of Reagan's failed playbook, and the result has been about the same as the Bush stimulus packages that followed the same blueprint. His cabinet picks have been all over the map because he doesn't know his own ideology enough to pick people who can consistently work in his direction. He even kept one of the enemy, and seems to be following his advice more than many of his real advisors.

Granted, it's better having him than McCain, by a long shot, but with the mandate and the control of Congress he had, we should be able to answer your question "NOTHING!!!" in all caps with plenty of explanation points because of the wondrous successes he championed. Instead, we're getting Rolling Stone articles reporting that the military brass says he's easy to intimidate and disengaged from discussions about military strategy, and his only response to that report is to stare sternly at a camera and do his best Donald Trump impersonation on the subject of the article, completely missing the whole point of the article and all the problems it points out. That's like firing a high school teacher for telling students we lost in Viet nam. He's becoming the Robin Gibbs president: It's only words, but words are all I have, to take your heart away.

He's swept the Iraq withdrawal under a rug of fake timelines, the Afghan "resolution to the conflict" under the same rug, the economic stimulus under the rug of "balanced budget," and the health care reforms under a "I have no control over Congress" rug that isn't even really there.

I'm still hopeful. I'm still happy it wasn't McCain. I love his Supreme Court nominees (although as it's been pointed out often, the list he's picking from was drawn up before he got there). There's some hope in the health care bill. But god almighty, quit pretending there's nothing to complain about.
You love him. I get that. I don't even begrudge that, he's an interesting, charasmatic figure who may yet turn out to be what people hope he will. I'll be cheering for him. But you can't honestly say you don't see why people are frustrated. That's just mean.

[theFrankFactor]

93. +1 Careful! You'll make us a stronger, more effective party!

[Top Cat]

101. This is just my opinion but people including myself are frustrated

because we expected a miracle worker and our President is not one. Yes I would like to see thing move quicker but with the magnitude of the problems at hand I don't think anyone could give us a quick fix.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AspenRose]

146. "Obummer?"

[jobycom]

147. Bwahaha!

It was a post that pretended to agree with mine and use it as an excuse to call Obama a one-termer and some other very general criticism. I started to respond to it, but let it go. Apparently the mods didn't. :)

[AspenRose]

148. LOL

LOL :-)

[Justitia]

20. I dunno...FDR and LBJ (especially) came in on a serious raft of shit. -eom

[WestSeattle2]

126. Actually, Lincoln, Andrew Johnson, FDR, Truman, Lynden Johnson,

and Gerald Ford, all come to mind as presidents who had ungodly messes to clean up upon taking the oath of office. While Obama has a full plate to be sure, his messes don't even compare to Lincoln's, Andrew Johnson's, FDR's, or Harry Truman's. Currently, there is no threat to our physical existence; nor is there a threat of our country splitting apart. Money problems brought on by unbridled greed can be solved; total destruction of a nation is a bit more difficult.

[AtomicKitten]

21. I think you may be right. nt

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

34. You're not making sense on almost every count listed.

1. Gitmo is obstructed by both Republicans and Dems in Congress. Anyone keeping track of this would know. Everyone seems to forget that one of the first things Obama signed when he entered office was a memorandum to close Gitmo. So get it together here.


2. Don't dish out the FISA thing. There is no immunity on current cases. Those immunities were put on the ones that were in process and were running around after the day the law came into place. If you bothered to read the FISA thing which a few of us debated on this board...there is no warrant-less wire taps. In order for wiretaps to be put in place they bodies that would go through with it would need to build up enough of a case to get it pas a commission which would rule whether it was worth tapping or not. So it's not warrant-less.

3.The indefinite detention, yes is a problem.

4. Funny you should mention them, because it would seem that they came through in saving us from an even more financial catastrophe. Further more, most of the architecture is because they worked for Goldman Sachs and such...when there were many entities causing problems. Lehman Brother's was a mess and really a proponent in the problems we faced.

5. Get a clue on this man. DOMA IS LAW!. The DOJ is doing what they are supposed to do. There's nothing else they can do. Everyone who knows this situation is fully aware of this. When cases are presented against the United States gov they have to defend it when the law is in place.

6. I heard about this. Listen, if a congressman want's to push forth a bill---the White House can't really pressure them. Seriously. What he wanted was the President to back him and he wasn't getting that unfortunately since it was the exact same time as the health care bill and from what I can see when Obama is pushing the repeal of DADT he does it so he can have the political environment so it can be successful. He did it just now--so now all Obama and Gates need to do is sign the bill that just passed and DADT is repealed. However no one gives him kudos on that though. Congress can't do too much at once. Although I won't deny I felt it took too long.

7. Well drones are unmanned and well he's killed many of the bad guys with drones. Civilian's die when there are soldiers too. Add that to his blame as well then.

8. This is the weakest point of them all. The man is dangerous. One of the most dangerous men for plotting against the US---treason. Obama gave allowance that if he does not come of his own will and there is a fight they are allowed to kill him. He has enough military and AQ---or suspected to have enough that they are afraid there would be opposition from him when they want to take him in for trial. Hello...this is not out of hand. Have you ever heard of FBI's Most Wanted list?! Most of those cats have death warrants on their heads---no one seems to be talking about them.

[Hekate]

27. Sometimes he must feel like a combination of Sysiphus and a dung beetle...

... just shoving that ball of shit up the mountain.

Hekate

[lamp_shade]

29. I can't think of anyone alive today who could hold up to the pressure as well as Obama has. n/t

[treestar]

32. Only FDR had worse

And at least that was only one problem.

Thanks to the Chimperor. Whoever followed him was going to have this ton of shit.

We really screwed ourselves as a nation by letting him "win" in 2000 and "re-electing" him in 2004.

[NJmaverick]

49. FDR had a worse economy, but President Obama had two wars thrown in

[arcadian]

131. They aren't wars

They are occupations.

[MadHound]

35. Well, that's why you're not a history buff

I can think of a couple of presidents who came into office with more problems than Obama. FDR would be one, Lincoln would be the other. They both rose to the occasion and saved this country. Somehow I don't see Obama doing this.

[unblock]

92. depends on how you define "more shit"

fdr and lincoln each had, for the most part, ONE problem (albeit in each case extraordinarily large) coming into office and, all things considered, a fairly united base to fight from.

fdr had big working majorities in congress and while he had an initially resistant supreme court, time eventually solved that problem. fdr was able to accomplish so much in his first 100 days not so much because of who he was but because of the circumstances and the huge support in congress.

whatever lincoln might have had in mind for the country was decided for him before he took office when the south seceeded. after that he was simply a president fighting a war. the union was largely in support of this, and while there was cabinet intrigue, he largely had one problem -- the civil war.


obama, on the other hand, has MANY large messes to deal with, ranging from near financial collapse to multiple military entanglements to hyperpartisan media and politics to huge corporate influence to corruption to deficits to economic problems, to social and demographic changes, environmental challenges and the list goes on and on. he has nominally fair majorities in congress but bare minimum (if that) working majorities in practice, and the supreme court is openly hostile. the media and corporations are aligned against him and i agree, i don't see obama stemming the tide.

but i'm not sure i see disagreeing with the premise. obama has had a TON of shit to deal with on coming into office.

[MadHound]

132. Let's see, "more shit"

Yes, FDR had more than the economy to deal with, and while he had Congressional backing, as you point out, he didn't have the backing of the SC. More important he didn't have the backing of a lot of the wealthy and powerful in this country.

And frankly the Great Depression still puts this recession we went through to shame. Coming on top the Great Dustbowl, this country was going under, I mean real fear that we would not survive in our current form.

People were out in the streets, occupying DC, dying from poverty and starvation on a daily basis. Oh, and let's not forget that this went on for over a decade, Only to be followed up by WWII. Not to mention that FDR was doing all this while ravaged by polio. Hell, somebody even tried to shoot the man before he took office, but killed the Mayor of Chicago instead.

As far Lincoln goes, well, he's not simply a president fighting another war. Not only was the South against him, but many in the North were as well. The NY Draft Riots are but one of the most noted examples of Northern disunity.

Oh, and let's not forget that he was also dealing with not a simply war, but a Civil War, which is a much different proposition. Not to mention he had to deal with slavery, death, and a downturn in the economy.

Sorry, but if you take in the full context of the era, Obama, though having a raft of problems coming into office, certainly doesn't have more than those of Lincoln and FDR. To say otherwise is to expose one's historical ignorance.

[Art_from_Ark]

140. The NY Draft Riots

were protesting, among other things, preferential treatment for people who could fork over $300 (a princely sum in those days) to get out of the draft.

[Top Cat]

103. Why are you on DU if you cannot support the party.

Obama has already done what many before him could not.

[MadHound]

134. Hmm, so insisting on historical accuracy now means that I'm not supporting the party

Gee, do you realize what other groups had those kinds of thoughts? Yeah, that's right. Obama hasn't done near what many before him have done, and to pretend otherwise is to deny historical truth. Yet pointing this out is somehow verbotten?

Wow, just wow:wow:

[myrna minx]

142. Hear hear.

:wow:

[MissDeeds]

149. Agreed n/t

[Moochy]

138. Is that how it works? Oppose the president's policies

and you must leave the party? Really?

[Tailormyst]

141. What an incredibly ignorant and frankly, stupid, reply.

Politics is not a sporting event. The Democrats are not your favorite sports team. Obama is not your favorite player.

If anyone should not be on DU it is someone who plays at politics and is far more interested in personalities and superstars then they are about facts, issues and people.

[Phx_Dem]

39. And instead of sweeping it under the rug, he's actually cleaning shit up.

Alot of President just put the politically hard stuff aside or gloss over it.

[madmax]

40. Have you noticed how the Dems get it cleaned up

the Pugs take over and blow it all to hell.

[Beacool]

42. Well, you said it yourself, you're not a history buff.

What do you consider modern history? 10 years, 20, 30?

:eyes:

[CakeGrrl]

44. Looking hard for anyone but Obama to carry the mantle?

Not surprising.

[Beacool]

48. Your reflex response, not surprising.

How about WWI, the Depression, WWII, etc. Yeah right, Obama inherited the worst times in modern history.

Please, the ignorance........

:eyes:

[NatBurner]

51. well you ARE kind of a one-trick pony, bea

just saying

reply or not, idrgaf

[Beacool]

52. Sorry, can't fight with you guys right now.

I'm still drooling over pics of Palermo (see the post about USA's soccer win).

:P

[CakeGrrl]

69. Sorry, I gave it some consideration

The point is arguable - scope, number of people affected, impact. It's worth considering, but I'd guess you'd jump to dismiss Obama out of hand.

Anyhoo, enjoy your World Cup drooling!

:hi:

[Beacool]

139. Thank you.

Plenty of drooling to do before the Cup is over.

:P


:D

[NYC Liberal]

89. WWI happened in the middle of a presidency,

as did WWII.

The economic situation FDR inherited was certainly comparable to that which Obama inherited. But FDR also did not inherit two mismanaged, ill-begotten wars ON TOP of the economic situation.

Probably the only president who entered office with the country in as dire straits was Lincoln, considering that states started seceding from the country the minute he was elected.

[Ignis]

81. Ah, civility.

[Skittles]

118. juvenile

[WI_DEM]

45. I agree he's had a lot on his plate, but I think that Lincoln & FDR had an even bigger mess.

[Drunken Irishman]

84. Well Lincoln isn't a modern president.

I do believe modern times starts with Roosevelt. So I guess if you include him, Pres. Obama's problems might seem distant.

[polichick]

47. True - I worry about his health. nt

[newtothegame]

50. Well that's true, that is not an excuse for inaction or misaction. He CHOSE to run for President.

It's not really valid to choose to try to be President but then be upset when it's hard.

[jillan]

53. Agreed! It doesn't stop. It's as if all he does is deal with one crisis after another.

[cheneyschernobyl]

54. Here's the way I see it:

the rethugs had the Presidency for 20 of the last 28 years (January 1981-January 2009). That means there is a lot of cleaning up to do. Those that complain about the cleaning efforts are actually the problem.

Instead of anyone being critical of President Obama, consider this: it was either him or McCain that would be in the Oval Office right now. I think we all agree that McCain would make things worse then they are now!

Let's please allow President Obama some slack. After all, he's got a lot of shit to clean up! *sorry for the cheap plagarism*

[butterfly77]

58. And they are..

making new problems fictional and non-fictional..

[otohara]

56. Daily Pile of Poo

plus the daily piles of lies and paranoia from wingnut TV & Radio, which would be no biggie if they didn't control the airwaves and the feeble minds on the right.

[butterfly77]

57. But..

I heard he should put the whitehouse in Lousiana because that is the most important thing to do..

[southernyankeebelle]

59. Buddy your point is very well taken. People forget so easy. I have never seen a President

being hit on all sides and even in the states. He is a good man. I still believe he is the right man for the right time. We don't need hot heads like McCain/Palin in office. We would be worse off today.

[Top Cat]

104. Agreed

[deacon]

114. Agreed.

[ColesCountyDem]

60. No shit! (pun intended) n/t

[Mira]

61. Without a doubt. Recommended and no further text.

[Enthusiast]

62. No doubt.

If I were President Obama I would resign the presidency effective immediately and in my exit address I would literally tell the country, especially the right wing assholes, to essentially go fuck themselves. He could say it so eloquently. It would be a historical address and general dressing down of idiots of every stripe.

But I'm not Obama. And for that we can only praise the lord. :rofl:

[grahamhgreen]

64. Yes, it's easy if he enacts our progressive solutions. No offshore drilling. Medicare for all. Out

of Iraqistan, etc.

[Toucano]

74. +1

The pile is growing because he keeps straddling the fence, trying to pacify the insane demands of the right.

[saracat]

70. Whats the definition of "modern"?

[judesedit]

71. Absolutely correct. Bush couldn't handle 20 feet of water above the ground and was still eating

cake on day 4. Obama is supposed to stop a 5,000 mile under the sea volcano spewing oil at high velocity in 1 week or less, having been there on day 2, making time from all of the other calamities he's been left by quacks you know who. Obama could walk on water and they still wouldn't be satisfied. I'm with you. Thank the almighty Lord for the fact we have Obama as our president. We would be in real deep doo-doo if it was the other wackos...to be sure.

[yeswecanandwedid]

72. No doubt, word is born right here... nt

[MannyGoldstein]

75. He should start cleaning, then - with a high pressure hose

and put down the Water Pik.

He's retained (and even expanded!) most of the awful policies started by the Bush regime, from secret prisons to extrajudicial assassinations to warrantless wiretapping to $12T in banker guarantees with zero regulation to protect our money.

[Jakes Progress]

86. Right. Wallowing in shit isn't cleaning it up. nt

[h9socialist]

76. And a bigger array of shit-heads trying to get in the way.

[AikidoSoul]

77. The Democratic Party needs to emphasize this in every

way possible, and at every opportunity. The public has the memory of a deranged sieve -- and this is counted on by the Repugs.

[impik]

78. Terrible, terrible shit-storm, only gets worse by the way people from "his" side treat him

[angee_is_mad]

127. consign

that!

[Blue Owl]

82. Major shitpile on Aisle 43

We're gonna need a firehose to clear out this pile.

[lunatica]

83. I think FDR had plenty to clean up

He was elected when the Great Depression was at its worst point and he had the The Dust Bowl, and WWII.

A quarter of the workforce was out of work. Farmers were in deep trouble as prices fell by 60%. Industrial production had fallen by more than half since 1929. Two million were homeless. And crime was on the rise as gangsters like Dillinger went on crime sprees.

[progressoid]

85. +1

[uponit7771]

96. ....and progressives fought for FDR to have an 80% + progressive congress...not so much for Obama

[liberation]

107. Well... FDR was himself 80% + progressive by the end of his first term. So....

But I assume this clusterfuck is somehow the fault of progressives, as everything always is.

[treestar]

150. But then things were so bad, it was easier for him to get support

for anything he wanted to do.

And the Republicans of that day were not so unreasonable.

[skyounkin]

87. Eh, Maybe Washington and Lincoln had more

but yeah- Obama has a lot LOT.

[IOKIYAL]

88. Completely Agree

Plus no other president had to deal with THIS media and its noise. None.

[JDPriestly]

90. So true, Top Cat.

[Stinky The Clown]

91. So would have any President-After-Idiot-Son.

[Fearless]

94. I think Lincoln and FDR had it worse... also several of the first few...

But whatever, just my opinion.

[unpossibles]

98. I agree. And not just from Bush, as bad as that was

but I honestly think we're seeing the fallout from Reagan's policies too.

[winstars]

105. Fucking Pirates I Tell Ya-- PIRATES!!! nt.

[Spheric]

108. Flypaper. /nt

[liberation]

109. You are indeed correct...

... you are not a history buff.


Cheers.

[Top Cat]

115. Never claim to be... So what's your point?

[flyarm]

111. hmm you don't recall the Kennedy assassination? and the Vietnam war? My Lai massacre

Kent State? the Watts , Newark and Detroit riots of the 60's ?

And the two wars at opposite ends of the world in WWII?

[meowomon]

112. I absolutely agree, but...

unfortunately he is implementing many of the same solutions that have failed in the past. He needs to move left-progressive.

[deacon]

113. It shows how run down of a country bush and the GOP left us. n/t

[Chisox08]

116. Franklin Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln would like to have a word with you

[patrice]

117. AND WE DIDN'T DELIVER THE SENATE BY ENOUGH OF A MAJORITY TO HELP HIM.

Don't you think he'd be different if he had received a strong enough of a majority in the Senate?

No, where he is on the issues is a completely independent reflection of him, who he is, and nothing else; doesn't have anything to do with the balance of power in the Senate. :sarcasm:

If you think that last statement is true, then I'd be interested in your opinion of the timing of all of this divisiveness, right before a vote.

[Skittles]

119. well then I suggest he get started

[fascisthunter]

125. lol... thanks

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

120. AND more opposition

Hell, we called Bush every name we could think of (and many of us prayed for his arrest), but this coordinated opposition from all political parties and the media boggles my mind. There are many who are so desperate for this man to fail that literally everything else is secondary in importance. War, oil, death, destruction, poverty, torture, corruption who the hell cares? All that matters is getting that man out of the white house and never letting another "like him" in again.

People who made jokes about a fucking tossed shoe were called terrorist sympathizers. Encouraging something unspeakable against this President makes you slightly out of the mainstream. Slightly.

Makes me sick, frankly. I'm all for calling someone on their shit when they deserve it, but it was completely out of hand since November 2008 and only got worse from there.

[Top Cat]

121. You are so right....

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

123. I just got so sick of being called a terrorist

Now that there ARE terrorist groups and successful domestic individual terrorists (yeah, I mean the white asshole in the plane), all you hear are fucking crickets. What used to be OH HOLY GAWD YOU'RE A TERRORIST isn't even "understandable frustration", it's expected fucking dialogue now. It's revolting, and there are VERY few things you can blame that double standard on.

Pardon the Tony Montana impression, this shit gets me all worked up.

[BootinUp]

122. Well, as long as your modern history starts in 1970 I guess.

Not taking anything away from Obama.

[fascisthunter]

124. FDR did

and he did very well until an ideology poked it's ugly head and tried to undo all the had had done.

[alcibiades_mystery]

129. Um, no offense, but Nixon was greeted with a couple of DOOZY shitpiles

Now, he piled them even higher, to be sure, but it wasn't a smooth welcome home in January of 1969.

[davidpdx]

133. What he said

And I would have recommended it but it was too late.

[Bert]

137. Is FDR still considered modern

Obama could take a page from FDR's book and be a bit more aggressive in his leadership, this would not only help him frame the debates but it may re-invigorate the country that got him elected. Pragmatism seems to be his strength and his weakness, unlike FDR and I hate to say it but Bush 2 as well, whose strength and weakness lay in his lack of reflection and willingness to do what he felt like despite political polls or even physical evidence. FDR did suffer overeach on a couple of occassions but look at what he got done. The right is still trying to bury him and deny that he existed.

[Tailormyst]

143. I agree- You are no student of history

Is he cleaning up a mess? yes. He isn't the first, won't be the last and frankly doesn't have the biggest mess.

[Top Cat]

153. 1st I never said that i was...

2nd in my opinion he has the biggest mess to clean up.. What planet have you been on?

[Tailormyst]

154. Aww how cute you are.

[Top Cat]

155. If you say so..