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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:41 PM
Original message
Extending Our Stay in Iraq (Odierno Request Combat Forces Beyond 'Deadline')
Edited on Thu Feb-25-10 01:54 PM by tekisui
Source: New York Times

IRAQ’S March 7 national election, and the formation of a new government that will follow, carry huge implications for both Iraqis and American policy. It appears now that the results are unlikely to resolve key political struggles that could return the country to sectarianism and violence.

If so, President Obama may find himself later this year considering whether once again to break his campaign promises about ending the war, and to offer to keep tens of thousands of troops in Iraq for several more years. Surprisingly, that probably is the best course for him, and for Iraqi leaders, to pursue.

Whether or not the elections bring the long-awaited political breakthrough that genuinely ends the fighting there, 2010 is likely to be a turning-point year in the war, akin to the summer of 2003 (when the United States realized that it faced an insurgency) and 2006 (when that insurgency morphed into a small but vicious civil war and American policy came to a dead end). For good or ill, this is likely the year we will begin to see the broad outlines of post-occupation Iraq. The early signs are not good, with the latest being the decision over the weekend of the leading Sunni party, the National Dialogue Front, to withdraw from the elections.

The political situation is far less certain, and I think less stable, than most Americans believe. A retired Marine colonel I know, Gary Anderson, just returned from Iraq and predicts a civil war or military coup by September. Another friend, the journalist Nir Rosen, avers that Iraq is on a long-term peaceful course. Both men know Iraq well, having spent years working there. I have not seen such a wide discrepancy in expert views since late 2005.

The period surrounding the surge of 2007 has been misremembered. It was not about simply sending 30,000 more troops to Iraq; it was about using force differently, moving the troops off big bases to work with Iraqi units and live among the people. Perhaps even more significantly, the surge signaled a change in American attitudes, with more humility about what could be done, more willingness to listen to Iraqis, and with quietly but sharply reduced ambitions.

(snip)

By late summer, the Obama administration could find itself in the uncomfortable position of reconsidering its vows to get out of combat in Iraq by August and to remove all troops by the end of next year. This will be politically difficult for the president, but he has shown admirable flexibility in his handling of Iraq. My impression is that the American people now wish they had never heard of Iraq, but understand just what a mess it is and are willing to give the president a surprising amount of leeway.

Extending the American military presence will be even more politically controversial in Iraq, and for that reason, it would be best to let Iraqi leaders make the first public move to re-open the status of forces agreement of 2008, which calls for American troops to be out of the country by the end of next year. But I think leaders in both countries may come to recognize that the best way to deter a return to civil war is to find a way to keep 30,000 to 50,000 United States service members in Iraq for many years to come.

more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/opinion/24ricks.html

Odierno requests more combat forces in Iraq -- beyond the Obama deadline

Source: Foreign Policy

In a move that could force President Obama to break his vow to get all combat troops out of Iraq by August of this year, his top commander in Iraq recently officially requested keeping a combat brigade in the northern part of the country beyond that deadline, three people close to the situation said Wednesday.

Gen. Raymond Odierno asked for a brigade to try to keep the peace in the disputed city of Kirkuk, but only got a polite nod from the president when the issue was raised during his recent meetings in Washington, according to two of the people familiar with the discussions. If the brigade in northern Iraq is indeed kept in Iraq past the deadline, there will be a fan dance under which it no longer will be called a combat unit, but like the six other combat brigades being kept past the deadline, will be called an advisory unit. I can imagine the press releases that will follow-"Three U.S. Army soldiers were killed last night in an advisory operation . . . ."

The feeling in the corridors of the White House is that the general is asking the right questions, but a bit clumsily, and certainly too early for political comfort, especially in Iraq, which is about to hold a national election. So I suspect the administration's bottom line for Odierno was, Hey, Shreko, put a sock in it until after the Iraqi elections, because what we need is a new Iraqi government to be formed so it can quietly begin talking to us about re-visiting some of those 2008 SOFA agreements about future troop levels.

more: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/25/odierno_requests_more_combat_forces_in_iraq_beyond_the_obama_deadline
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Different strategy for the same stupid war....
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Love the way the use "MAY" is always there in these speculative pieces.....
and most always ignore them.

I could have written this piece myself, since it is nothing but speculation.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. More 'Wait and see' deflection.
We can revisit this subject in the Summer, when troops are leaving at the rate promised.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The OP maybe wishful thinking. n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. NYT piece reminds me of DU in the sense that
someone actually wrote a piece starting off from a point of speculation and went from there.

We can all do that....

the point is that yes, we will need to see what develops....but Pres. Obama has always said that he woud always look at facts on the ground....but to date, my understand that anyone speaking in an official capacity with their name attached in reference to Iraq have said that all was "on schedule", period.

So NYT can opine all they want, but in the end, that's what it is.
Should we react to a NTY speculative piece? I guess some would,
especially if it allows them to REstate something negative about
how this administration is performing; after all, most of the time
the purpose of these speculative pieces is exactly that; to turn non news
into something.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. *ahem* Odierno's Plan B For Iraq Looks Like It's Plan A Now
After alluding to the possibility that he may ask President Obama to keep combat troops in Iraq past August of this year, Gen. Raymond Odierno recently made the request official. Odierno asked for a brigade to stay in the northern Iraq city of Kirkuk, according to Foreign Policy Thursday.

Earlier this week, Odierno said the timeline for combat withdrawal could change if he sees problems with the formation of a new Iraqi government following elections next month. A series of pre-election shooting and car bombing attacks swept the country today, killing 22 people in all.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/02/25/world/worldwatch/entry6242378.shtml
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's bogus, and stems from this bogus report
by the author of the OP piece:

In a move that could force President Obama to break his vow to get all combat troops out of Iraq by August of this year, his top commander in Iraq recently officially requested keeping a combat brigade in the northern part of the country beyond that deadline, three people close to the situation said Wednesday.

Gen. Raymond Odierno asked for a brigade to try to keep the peace in the disputed city of Kirkuk, but only got a polite nod from the president when the issue was raised during his recent meetings in Washington, according to two of the people familiar with the discussions. If the brigade in northern Iraq is indeed kept in Iraq past the deadline, there will be a fan dance under which it no longer will be called a combat unit, but like the six other combat brigades being kept past the deadline, will be called an advisory unit. I can imagine the press releases that will follow-"Three U.S. Army soldiers were killed last night in an advisory operation . . . ."

link



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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. What part is bogus? Did Odierno ask for the combat
brigade or not?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are you really going to take stock in speculation that includes this claim:
but only got a polite nod from the president when the issue was raised during his recent meetings in Washington, according to two of the people familiar with the discussions


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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The seeds are being planted, the drips are coming.
More softening the field for what may come.

IF violence continues or escalates after the election, the contingency plan is ready. We won't met our deadline, and will continue indefinitely.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The seeds of spin are being planted by wishful thinkers. n/t
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Odierno has a plan if violence continues.
He is opening the door for an extended stay. No one is saying it is definite, only that the possibility is now officially revealed. You can ignore it if you want. It will be re-visited in the Summer.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. So WH says withdrawl is "on schedule"? And we know we can trust what the WH says.
The airlines always say a plane is "on schedule" until the minute it's late at the gate.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is bogus speculation
It appears now that the results are unlikely to resolve key political struggles that could return the country to sectarianism and violence.


Kneejerk reaction to day-to-day reports.

Sunni leader decides to take part in Iraq election


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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Not bogus, see update.
Odierno made it official.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wont this break Bush's SOFA agreement?
Hmmm....as Ive said...as I remember Michael Ware saying....its all temporary and ultimately the "conditions on the ground" argument can win at the end of the day.


We will see
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Exactly. No end in sight.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. When did he "broke his promise to end the war"?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's the expectation!
Got.to.have.something.to.beat.President.with.a.stick.about.....
It is essential for the perpectual unhappy campers.
Without it, the threads would become the same all of the time...
need.something.else.to.freshen.up.arguments.that.this.President.isn't.a.good.one.

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I am perpetually disgusted with war.
I have seen the President escalate and expand war in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I see the possibility that he could renege on the Iraq withdrawal, why shouldn't it be paid attention to?

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. He hasn't yet. But,now we know it may happen and how
it would happen.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. That is why he has sent Biden to Iraq many times.
To oversee the political problems that may come up. We want to keep it on the schedule. And the Iraqi's want us to stay on their timetable. But I know the military wants to keep staying. Obama needs to listen to other people on this.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. After he went whole hog with the generals in Afghanistan
I expect the generals to get everything they want, for whatever reason they want it.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I know.
The thing is, things in Iraq are really not going that badly. Politically they have a lot to work out. Bumps in the road will happen. We cannot try to prop up every little thing that may go wrong.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. I have long contended that I will believe we are leaving
Iraq when I see us leave Iraq.
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. Why is Obama giving Odierno a polite nod?
Has he forgotten his own timetable?
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. Bush already allocated the Billions for the bases and the new Embassy to be built years ago..
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Gravel Democrat Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
28. Anyone that thinks the USA is going to leave hasn't been paying attention to history
Edited on Fri Feb-26-10 05:41 AM by Gravel Democrat
In 3 years, after the bases in Afghanistan are finished, no
one will really remember that "we" are still in Iraq.

Just like the following:

http://newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm
which begat:


Few remember or care. And the slow march continues.

There's already targets lined up after Afghanistan. They just haven't told us
what they are yet. Noi siamo la Nuova Roma ☠

edit:grammer



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