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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:18 AM
Original message
Howard Dean sells President Obama short
While he praised Obama as a good president, Dean said the Democrat hasn't turned out to be the ''change agent'' the party thought it elected, and voters who supported Democrats in back-to-back elections now are turned off. Said Dean: ''They really thought the revolution was at hand but it wasn't, and now they're getting the back of the hand.''

more


Frankly, there has been a lot of change:

Progressives (and Obama) are Doing Better Than We Think -- and We Won't Know What We've Got 'Til It's Gone

<...>

Quick Summary of 2009 Progressive Victories (more explanation below)

  • Three major health bills (SCHIP, tobacco regulation, and stimulus funds for Medicaid, COBRA subsidies, health information technology and the National Institutes of Health) enacted even before comprehensive reform
  • Stimulus contained myriad other individual policy victories, not only preventing a far worse depression but also:
    • Delivered key new funds for education
    • Expanded state energy conservation programs and new transit programs
    • Added new smart grid investments
    • Funded high-speed Internet broadband programs
    • Extended unemployment insurance for up to 99 weeks for the unemployed and modernizing state UI programs to cover more of the unemployed
    • Made large new investments in the safety net, from food stamps (SNAP) to affordable housing to child care

  • Clean cars victory to take gas mileage requirements to 35mpg
  • Protection of 2 million acres of land against oil and gas drilling and other development
  • Executive orders protecting labor rights, from project labor agreements to protecting rights of contractor employees on federal jobs
  • Stopping pay discrimination through Lilly Ledbetter and Equal Pay laws
  • Making it easier for airline and railway workers to unionize, while appointing NLRB and other labor officials who will strengthen freedom to form unions
  • Reversing Bush ban on funding overseas family planning clinics
  • Passing hate crimes protections for gays and lesbians
  • Protecting stem cell research research
  • Strengthening state authority and restricting federal preemption to protect state consumer, environmental and labor laws
  • Financial reforms to protect homeowners and credit card holders
  • Bailing out the auto industry and protecting unionized retirees and workers
Detailed-- Let's start with health care. Even if the public option doesn't make it, we are on the verge of passing a federal reform bill that, at minimum, is projected to add health coverage for 31 million Americans in the next decade, devoting $347 billion to add 15 million people to Medicaid and CHIP programs and $447 billion to subsidize coverage for other working and middle class families.

And remember, if passed, this will be the fourth major health care bill passed in Obama's first year in office.

  • The first was the passage of the Children's Health Insurance Bill, which itself will expand coverage for an additional 4 million uninsured children by 2013 on top of continuing coverage for 7 million currently enrolled in the program. And for the first time, it allowed states to cover many documented immigrant children who previously were not eligible
  • And Congress passed its bill to give the government the power to regulate tobacco, something progressives had been seeking since the early 1990s.
  • And then there was the stimulus money for health care, which dedicated more than $145 billion to investments and reform of health care systems,including
Really, you should count the COBRA subsidies, HIT expansion and NIH funding as three additional health care bills passed, since each in a normal year would have been considered a profound and singular legislative achievements.

The Stimulus Plan as Multiple Progressive Achievements: But that's was one problem with the stimulus bill-- it was so large that it's treated as one thing, instead of a whole array of legislative achievements pulled together to also help save the economy from depression and collapse. So let's step back and pull the recovery plan apart into it's multiple progressive achievements. The list of individual programs may seem long, but when you are talking about billions of dollars for each one handed out over a relatively short period, they are worth remembering for their individual progressive achievement and for the billions committed, especially for many programs starved for funds for decades. I'll summarize some of these below, but you can see more details in Progressive States' Implementing the Recovery Plan.

  • Stimulus Saving the Economy: Before going into all the individual programs, let's talk about the overall achievement of the recovery plan in stabilizing the economy. Most progressives will agree it should have been bigger, but key economists agree it was critical to staving off an economic collapse; as Paul Krugman wrote, without the stimulus plan, "we would have had a full Great Depression experience...Deficits, in other words, saved the world." Including not only direct jobs created but the ripples of jobs created through indirect stimulus, the Economic Policy Institute confirms the stimulus' was responsible for creating or saving from 1.1 to 1.5 million jobs since its passage. A large part of this effect was in preventing catastrophic layoffs of teachers, nurses and other state and local employees by offsetting revenue losses at the state and local level. While there seems to be some kind of sexist media meme that only highway jobs, presumably manned by manly men, count as "real jobs", the stimulus however has kept hundreds of thousands of teachers and nurses and child care workers on the job-- one of the most important anti-recession government employment programs of the last half-century.

  • Education Funding: This emphasizes that along with being a major health care bill, the stimulus was one of the largest federal education bills in history. It devoted $139.24 billion to education funding over a couple of years, including:

    • State Fiscal Stabilization Fund of $53.6 billion to help state and local governments avert budget cuts
    • $39.5 billion in educational block grants allocated by student and general population measures
    • $5 billion for incentive grants and other purposes.
    • $24.8 billion for School Construction Bonds
    • $11.3 billion for special education
    • $10 billion for Local Educational Agencies
    • $3 billion for School Improvement Grants.
    • Higher education funding of approximately $30 billion was distributed directly to students and their families, but an estimated $15 billion for scientific research flowed partly to universities.

  • Clean Energy and Transportation Investments: Estimates on potential green energy investments in the recovery package, including upgrading our transportation infrastructure, range from $70.6 billion to $113.5 billion depending on what is included, but the bottom-line is that this package is the largest investment in energy independence in American history. These included:

    • Over $14 billion for various State Energy Conservation Programs, including $5 billion for the chronically underfunded Weatherization Assistance Program to help low-income families reduce their energy costs by weatherizing their homes.
    • $11 billion for smart grid technology aimed at improving the energy efficiency of electrical grids around the country, a key to making alternative energy production and distribution viable.
    • The recovery plan was also a key "down payment on a new transportation vision," in the words of the coalition Transportation for America, including $27.5 billion allocated to the traditional highway program, $8.4 billion for public transportation, $9.3 billion for intercity and high-speed passenger rail, and $825 million for projects that will make our streets safer for walking and biking. Significantly, the law included unprecedented flexibility in using "highway" funds on ports, transit, passenger and freight rail, or other projects.


  • Broadband Investments: The recovery plan allocated $7.2 billion to promote high-speed Internet programs for rural, unserved and under-served areas and for initiatives that expand public community centers' capacity and for the development of a national broadband map.

  • Unemployment Insurance Extension and Reform: While the present recession is bad, one reason many unemployed workers and their families are better off than in past recessions is that help for the unemployed has been far more extensive due to the stimulus plan.

    • First, the stimulus plan included extended federal weeks of help for the unemployed (help which was recently further extended with a new law) to up to 99 weeks of help in the worst hit states -- compared to just 26 weeks normally available before the recession-based reforms and no more than 52 weeks in recessions over the last three decades.
    • While benefits are still too meager by international standards, the stimulus, over 17.9 million Americans will receive a $25/week increase in their UI benefits.
    • As importantly, $7 billion in incentive money was provided to states to modernize their unemployment insurance systems to including low-income workers, part-time workers and workers who had to leave jobs for compelling family reasons-- workers previously completely excluded from UI help in most states. The result has been what the National Employment Law Project calls an "unprecedented wave of state reforms" to expand access to state unemployment help.
    • Add in the 65% COBRA health care subsidies mentioned above and progressives have won broader and deeper relief for the unemployed than in any past recession.


  • Supporting the Safety Net: And for those already suffering in poverty -- or plunged into it because of the recession -- the stimulus bill extended additional help as well:

    • Nutrition Programs: Over $20 billion was added to the Food Stamps program (now called SNAP), WIC and other food programs, and the law lifted restrictions on how long unemployed individuals without children can receive SNAP benefits.
    • Child Care: Over $4 billion was added for child care block grants, Head Start and Early Head Start programs.
    • TANF: $5 billion was added to basic TANF welfare programs. While not repealing the 1996 welfare law, provisions did roll back rigid rules that would have denied funds to states that couldn't find work for rapidly expanding caseloads of the poor.
    • Affordable Housing Aid: Added $13.5 billion in funding for a range of affordable housing and homeless prevention programs.


  • Expansion of science investments-- Notably, between the stimulus and other budget spending, no less than the Wall Street Journal calls Obama's investments in science, especially green technology, a "once-in-a-generation shift in U.S. science," reinvigorating 17 giant U.S.-funded research facilities, from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory to the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, as well as university research facilities.

So those are many of the myriad program gains from the recovery plan (there are more whose dollar amounts were less but who mattered greatly to those effected). But there have also been additional policy gains outside the stimulus on the environment, labor rights, gay and abortion rights, and financial reforms.

Environmental Victories: Two notable victories promise to have long-lasting legacies for the nation, even before climate change legislation comes to a vote in the Senate:

  • Victory on clean cars mileage rules-- For literally decades, automakers blocked higher federal gas mileage rules and the Bush administration blocked state laws seeking to establish higher standards in their states. Obama engineered a new rule that by model year 2016, the average mandated fleet fuel efficiency standard will be 35.5 miles per gallon. Add in the$2 billion in stimulus cash for advanced batteries systems and the nation should see significant fuel savings in the near future.
  • Landmark U.S. conservation bill - Signing a package of more than 160 bills, Obama designating roughly 2 million acres -- parks, rivers, streams, desert, forest and trails -- in nine states as new wilderness and render them off limits to oil and gas drilling and other development.
Labor Rights: On labor rights, we haven't gotten the Employee Free Choice Act, but key Bush executive orders have been reversed, new personnel are being added to the National Labor Relations Board, and Congress has passed key new laws. These include


Strengthening Authority of States to Build on Federal Reforms: For years, states have increasingly seen their hands tied by a federal government declaring that preemption voids state consumer, environmental and labor rights laws. The Bush administration in particular used its regulatory authority aggressively to block state law after state law. In May, the White House emphasized its new commitment to respecting state regulatory rules by issuing a broad Memorandum on Preemption to all heads of executive departments and agencies, ordering them to avoid the preemption language routinely included in Bush-era regulatory preamble statements or in codified regulations unless there is "full consideration of the legitimate prerogatives of the States and with a sufficient legal basis for preemption."

The administration's affirmation of state "clean car" authority, protection of higher state consumer health care protections, and ending Bush's war on medical marijuana in the states have all been part of this movement towards of collaborative federalism that will strengthen progressive power in the states for years into the future.

Financial Reforms: Even as more comprehensive financial reforms continue to move forward in the House, a couple of significant financial consumer reforms were passed earlier this year:
  • Helping Families Save Their Homes Act and the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act -these pieces of legislation make it easier for homeowners to access financial help, established protections for renters living in foreclosed homes, and established the right of a homeowner to know who owns their mortgage, while giving the Department of Justice the ability to prosecute at virtually every step of the process from predatory lending on Main Street to the manipulation on Wall Street.

  • Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure Act (or Credit CARD Act) of 2009- limits when credit card interest rates can be increased on existing balances and allows consumers whose interest rates have been increased to reduce their annual percentage rates (APRs) to previous levels if they've been good and paid their bills on time for six months. It also limits when interest rates can be increased, bans universal default and double-cycle billing, and restricts credit cards for minors.
Auto Bailout- Saving a core industry of our economy and as many of its attendant jobs as we can should have been a no-brainer, especially as many construction and real estate jobs are inevitably disappearing forever. And the Obama rescue was done in an extremely progressive manner, liquidating the shareholders who tolerated terrible management while safeguarding retirees and preserving a strong union for workers remaining in the industry. The "cash for clunkers" plan may have been a bit of a giveaway to the industry, but then since the U.S. government owns a chunk of the industry, reviving industry profits means returning some of the money to the government itself as a shareholder..

And More to Come: Many more progressive achievements are within reach as well, moving through the meatgrinder political process too slowly for some progressives but still quite possible in the next few months. From fundamental student loan reforms to remaking banking regulations to climate change legislation to immigration reform to labor law reform, high profile progressive initiatives are still being promoted by both the administration and Congressional leaders.

Again, we should always be demanding more-- and planning electoral responses where possible against the Congressional repesentatives and Senators blocking better reforms -- but we also need to highlight what we've won, keep allies and the base of progressives excited so that they will have the energy to fight those fights.

Progressives have been winning in the last year. We just need to keep reminding ourselves and the public of how full the cup is-- and planning to fill it the rest of the way as we win more elections in the future. It's worth remembering that large parts of what we consider the New Deal were not enacted until many years into FDR's Presidency. Social Security and the National Labor Relations Act were enacted only in 1935, three years into his term, while the federal minimum wage was enacted only in 1938, in FDR's sixth year in office. But along the way, progressives won individual victories that continually fed progressive energy for the next fight. That's the challenge now for progressives, to claim existing victories and build on that energy for fights to come.


Community Health Centers


"House passed the most ambitious restructuring of federal financial regulations since the New Deal"

FACTBOX-Highlights of $447 billion US spending bill

CHANGE HILDA SOLIS CAN BELIEVE IN....

Sec. Hilda Solis announces $100 million in green jobs training grants

White House Releases Name Of Every Visitor For First Time Ever

ACLU: President Obama Issues Orders To Reduce Government Secrecy

"President Obama set a new record last year for getting Congress to vote his way"



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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Fuck Rahm and his BS that keeps us heading in the wrong direction. -(nt)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. What the hell does this have to do with Rahm? n/t


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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Everything has to do with Rahm...
He's the devil, you know.
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
77. My thought are the same WHAT DOES RAHM HAVE TO DO WITH THIS POST.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks. Bookmarked and recc'd
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. You say he's "selling Obama short". How is that fair when Dean is simply telling the truth? nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Yeah, if you ignore everything in the OP.
They're irrelevant, right?

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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. That's bullshit and, more's the pity, you know it.
What in your OP contradicts that many of Obama's supporters are "turned off"?

Your post states many valid points and lists many of Obama's accomplishments. But, it does not even begin to address the debacle of the health care legislation. Your rosy characterizations on that subject are extremely optimistic, to say the very least.

You obviously spent a lot of time composing that post. I certainly don't have time to read the entire thing including the links. Maybe you should publish it as an article somewhere, but I'll bet you could count on one hand the number of people who read it ALL here.

I don't think we are well served by uncritical acceptance of whatever bit of benefit somehow trickles through the Republican blockade.

I don't doubt your good faith, but you should know that my wife and I spent several nights hanging Obama posters which WE downloaded and printed. When they disappeared the next day, we replaced them, gluing them on to make them more difficult to tear down. And this in an area so RED that literally 3 out of 4 voted for Dipstick and Lipstick. I've been cussed, threatened and flipped off because I supported Obama. And, I am "turned off".

Stop trying to paint us as fools and start trying to understand why we feel betrayed.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. What the hell are you talking about?
"What in your OP contradicts that many of Obama's supporters are "turned off"?"

The OP is about change, see the "change agent" comment.

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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. YOU see it. Any post that needs a table of contents and a bibliography
probably should be reconsidered.

If you cannot agree that Obama has given conscientious and serious liberals cause for doubt and concern, there is little sense, despite your moniker, in trying to have a discussion.

Have a good one.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. I'll admit there are people
who are bitter and have agendas.

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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #41
73. Better check that mirror, NoSense
The headline of this thread is about as bitter as bitter gets.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why haven't you put Afghanistan on your list?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It is an inconvenient truth
as is the cost in lives and treasure of permanent wars.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Here:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. A press coneference by a politician does not justify a war.
It's about policy not personalities.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Again, this OP is about domestic social policy. Also, you seem to forget
Howard Dean supports Obama on Afghanistan

HOWARD DEAN: I'm not so sure I'm the liberal wing, but... I've supported the president on this one. I think this is different than Iraq. I think there are people who mean the United States harm over there... I was very pleased to say the hear the president a few months ago say, "Look, we can't win this war militarily." He gets what we have to do here. And it is true that American public opinion is not supportive of the war effort anymore. I think this does have something to do with security to the United States. I do believe it has something to do with the role of women in these kinds of societies. I think we ought to be supportive of the role of women and their ability to get an education and things like that. I don't think that's the only reason we're there. But I'm supportive of the president, and I'm going to continue to be supportive of the president on Afghanistan.



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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. So this is not true? "Howard Dean sells President Obama short"
Again, you can not determine policy based on which politician supports it.

The Senate HCR fiasco comes to mind.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Are you pretending to be confused? n/t
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
63. No, I think it's pretty clear what you're doing.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Serioulsy, look at the OP and then
look at this thread. It's completely bizarre that people are, in light of the OP, completely refusing to give the administration credit for anything.

Bizarre.


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. It is Obama that is coming off way short. Dean is telling the truth!
(M)ost ominously for Democrats contemplating the midterm elections, the battle here suggests an emerging dangerous dynamic: that Mr. Obama has energized Republican activists who think he has overstepped with health care and the economic stimulus, while demoralizing Democrats who think he has not lived up to his promise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/us/politics/17massach...
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Make ALL The Long Lists You Want... The"BASE" That Rahm Denigrated
is extremely offended! Blue Dogs for some of us has just about RUINED so much we had thought we were getting when we went out and worked our butts off for Obama!

Sorry, on the BIG THINGS... this administration seems to have forgotten so many of us! Even talking with people in other states, Democratic friends I've had over the years, kids I went to school with and still keep in touch with... MANY are disappointed!

And the COAKLEY run for Senate should be a SERIOUS indication or at the very least a WAKE-UP call to the WH and the Congress Critters!

Do I WANT to say these things... MOST CERTAINLY NOT... but I WON'T run away with what I see as TRUTH for me and many people I know!

It's really a HUGE let down for thousands and thousands of us! So beat the drum load, but some of us can't hear the tom-toms!

JMHO... :shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Rahm?
Seems everyone loves the House bill these days. The Senate is the issue. Most of these Senators were elected under Howard Dean's DNC.

What does Rahm have to do with the Senate?

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Shhh, don't tell anyone but that is Howard's 50 state inclusive strategy. I wonder how many recall
when Howard Dean was running, he was right down in the middle of the most red state districts trying to appeal to those individuals who wouldn't even give him the time of day

What Howard Dean strategy was that the Democratic party needed to attract all people into the party, including ones we didn't agree with

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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
56. So What? I'm Aware That Rahm Was A Congress Critter... Now He's The COS & Has
Obama's ear! I'm not talking about HCR in particular, I'm talking about Rahm AND HIS ATTITUDE! His attitude that some of us JUST DON'T MATTER! We will go along to get along!

Dissing "the base" was a MISTAKE and has NOTHING to do with HCR alone! It's all of it and his perceptions of how to TREAT US! He has left me COLD!
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Oh is THIS what it feels like to not be owned by corporate America?
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 09:40 AM by dkf
Wow what a difference! I can totally see it now. Thanks for telling me.

Ha. That Bernie Sanders. What a joker telling us this government is owned. Guess he didn't read your list.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Blah, blah, blah
The voters are just helpless and in the thrall of corporations.

If they allow that to happen, they deserve it.

It's easier to just blame some unpopular legal entity than to do any work.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Financial institutions that spent more lobbying congress were more apt to get into difficulties
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:05 AM by dkf
In the recent downturn. Sometimes we the people are just innocent bystanders in this.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
55. Congresspersons know they have to answer to the voters
In the house, every two years.

So if they help the banks, it's because they think it will save the economy from a greater disaster and that the voters will want that.

It's so easy to be cynical and play the victim. But this country does allow the voters to pick the people who decide the government's policies.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thank you for putting that together
So many on DU just post one liners with emotional underpinnings only.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. You sell Howard Dean short
That's something that much of the Democratic leadership does routinely. Most of your list is an example of a contemporary mainstream Democratic agenda. Yes it somewhat looks different is substance from a contemporary mainstream Republican agenda, just like Bill Clinton's Democratic Party differed from Ronald REagan's Republican Party. That doesn't make it a progressive agenda even though some details within it are progressive. Your list is full of halfway, one forth way, and one tenth way measures (along with a few real victories) as compared to a real progressive agenda, and THAT is putting the best foot forward. A list of missed opportunities would be equally as long, and then there could be a seperate list of corporate sell outs.

Howard Dean will support Barack Obama for President in 2012 and so will I. The Republican agenda will be far worse than Obama's
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. "Most of your list is an example of a contemporary mainstream Democratic agenda. "
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:02 AM by ProSense
Really? Obama is a Democrat pushing a Democratic agenda, yes. Still, here you are trying to denigrate his achievements, some of which address things Clinton couldn't have or didn't. A lot of the mess President Obama is cleaning up today is from Bush, but it's also from Clinton and others over many decades.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. It is not denegrating accomplishments to accurately describe their scope
And here of course we enter the realm of opinion and it seems ours may differ. I did not start a thread to knock Obama's achievements, I responded to a thread that knocked Dean's observations. I am still glad that Obama was elected President and I still plan to back him again in 2012, in large part because he is a Democrat pushing a Democratic agenda and the alternative will be a Republicvan pushing a Republican agenda. I also happen to agree with Dean.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Wrong
You are simply stating that these achievements would have been done by any Democratic President. Maybe, but how does that negate the fact that these represent change?

The fact is you are wrong. Things like Obama's lobbyist, transparency, labor policies among other were not a given.

In fact, you would be hard pressed to convince anyone the health care reform process would have advanced to this point under any of his opponents.

You also ignore that he inherited an economy in crisis.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
39. No, you're wrong, so there.
Every individual leader is different so every individual leader will move the ball forward or backwards in ways that differ from how another individual holding that position would have. If Obama did not make some specific improvements that reflected his unique concerns amd/or leadership abilities, frankly he would suck as a leader, and he doesn't. If another Democrat were President now we would be looking at a slightly different list of ways in which he or she personally made a difference. Overall I stand by my observation. I could add that I think Obama could be doing a far worse job as President, even for a Democrat, than he is but I doubt that will satisfy you either.

If a football team faces third and 8 on the 50 yard line and runs a play that advances the ball two yards, that's change also. We have a profound disagreement on the political course of health care reform under the Obama Administration, as well as on the societal effects of health care reform as it is shaping up to be. Since we haven't resolved our differences on that over the last two months on numerous other DU threads, I doubt that we will here either.

As to the economy, I both thank God that Obama defeated McCain AND I believe that Obama squandered an opportunity to rally the public behind positive fundemental economic changes by instead prioritizing an attempt to achieve a bipartisan consensus with Republoicans regarding them.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. "Every individual leader is different so every individual leader will move the ball forward "
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:31 AM by ProSense
What exactly are you arguing: Obama is different and moving the ball forward so he really can't be considered a "change agent"?

Let's see: HIV travel ban survived 22 years and national security document secrecy for a couple of centuries.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Nope
Didn't say that, but that's a novel way of paraphrasing what I did say. I'm not going over it again so feel free to have the last word.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. That's exactly what you are trying to argue. n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Change is a meaningless value without quantifying and qualifying it
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:41 AM by Tom Rinaldo
Yes Obama is a "change agent" I hope my saying that makes you happier than my saying I will suppoert him in 2012 did.

edited for typo
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. "Yes Obama is a 'change agent'"
So you were arguing for argument's sake?

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Look in a mirror n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Thanks for proving the point. n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. You can't really be as dense as you pretend to be in this exchange
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:53 AM by Tom Rinaldo
George W. Bush was a change agent. Hillary Clinton would have been a change agent. I repeat: change is a meaningless value without being quantified and qualified.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. "I repeat: change is a meaningless value without being quantified and qualified."
Speaking of "dense," continue to ignore the facts.

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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Yup! nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
24. This is a much need steep in keeping people in their homes.
Helping Families Save Their Homes Act and the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act -these pieces of legislation make it easier for homeowners to access financial help, established protections for renters living in foreclosed homes, and established the right of a homeowner to know who owns their mortgage, while giving the Department of Justice the ability to prosecute at virtually every step of the process from predatory lending on Main Street to the manipulation on Wall Street.

But bankers are stonewalling...
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
29. All well and good.
However, not a single item was on the list of things we thought we were voting for in the Presidential election.

1. End the war in Iraq.

2. Close Gitmo and stop torture.

3. Undo the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act.

4. Real Health Care Reform.

5. Legally repeal DADT and allow gays to serve openly in our military, repeal DOMA.

6. Green jobs and green economy, sign a "Kyoto style" treaty with real goals and limits.

7. End the privatization of government, especially the military.

8. Prosecute war criminals, especially those from the last administration.

Now, I didn't have that much expectation that President Obama would do this entire list, especially number 8. It was clear from the campaign that he would expand the war in Afghanistan and not hold Bushco accountable. Fine. But he has had opportunity to make great strides on the rest... and while he has made some small progress, plus the list that you detailed, I think many of us are disappointed with the progress so far. To me, number 3 is/was the most important thing he could do, and, as a constitutional scholar taking as his oath of office to "preserve, protect, and defend" the constitution, undoing the damage done to our rights by the last mis administration and their running dog lackeys in Congress was the single thing he could have done to uphold his oath.

But here we are, 25% of his first term over, not that much to show for it. After the midterms this year, he will be running for re-election, so bold dramatic moves to right the course of the ship of state will likely not happen. That means he has just the rest of this year (if that). And if Massachusetts goes the wrong way next Tuesday, it will be even more challenging for him to do any of that list (with the exception of pulling our troops out of Iraq).
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oh,
I'll make the list longer next time, and a couple of the things on your list are mentioned in the OP.

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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Mentioned, worked on, NOT DONE YET.
Very simple.

We didn't elect the candidate of "hope and change" to expand SCHIP or sign the Lilly Ledbetter Act.

Those are accomplishments, but nothing to really hang your hat on.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Of course he's not done yet. He's got three years to go in his first term n/t
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
64. As I pointed out in my first response
He has wasted the opportunity to move the agenda. He was elected by what passes for a landslide. He had basically 1 year to enact most of what he campaigned on. Why is that? Because the second year of any President is taken up by mid term elections, and the last two years are taken up by the now two year election cycle.

IF we had a large untouchable majority in the Senate and House (say 65 or more Senate seats, about what we have now in the House), the President may have an extra 4 months or so after his first year to enact sweeping legislation. After that, it's the midterms and the the re election of the President. Should the Democrats GAIN seats in the midterm, then the calculation changes and the President has another year (assuming his own popularity numbers are high) to move his agenda. Plus, after re-election, he or she would have another 1.5 years to do the "big things" before lame duckness sets in.

The present political outlook doesn't afford the current President any of those luxuries. The repukes look to make a comeback in 2010, how big is yet to be determined. I'll add here that anything other than that would have been remarkable. It's traditional for the party in power, after winning the Presidency, to lose seats in the midterms. The Dems seem to be following that pattern. Obama hasn't helped his own cause much by entering the Presidency with a mindset of thinking that the Repukes, despite the blackness of their souls, would be pragmatic enough to help on a few agenda items, if the Dems would only compromise. It was a political miscalculation. We are not in those times anymore. The Ultra right talk radio and Faux "news" have seen to it that we are now a polarized nation. They have pilloried the President by presenting a wholly inaccurate view of his politics (he is far from a socialist/Nazi - whatever the hell that is) and his policies (health insurance reform with not a drop of "public option" in it is hardly "government takeover"). But if you ask the typical Faux viewer (like the majority of my family), the extreme view is what they parrot and Obama is a socialist nanny state dictator, who possibly isn't really the President.

Anyhow, the only way for the President and the Democrats to win was to do the opposite of what they did. They needed to do "big things" (like Bush did with his huge tax cuts right after taking office) to keep the base energized and motivated. They needed to make progress on the list I posted. We wanted a giant "UNDO" of the Bush years, and we didn't get it. Actually, we wanted a HUGE UNDO of the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Reagan years. Reaganomics is what is killing this country, free trade was the funeral march, and W Bush tax cuts for the wealthy was simply shoveling dirt on the grave.

But we didn't get it. Any of it. And many of us are simply tired of the fight. I gave more time and more money than I should have in 2006 and 2008 for what we got as elected officials. Yes, most of the politicians that I gave money to won (Al Frankin, Keith Ellison, Barack Obama)... except for Tammy Duckworth (which was a real shame). But, so far, the people who were our champions during those long dark Bush years (Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, etc) are now oddly silent. Who is speaking for real HEALTH CARE reform (not just health care INSURANCE reform)? Where is the repeal of the Patriot Act?





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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. If possible, I would rec your response. nt
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
32. Spam, spam spam spam.... the first article you link to does not report good news for Dems.
The second, which you cut and paste at great length, attempts to contradict the first with a barrage of "Accomplishment" links, to which you have added your own mostly recycled collection of links links links.

Taken together, these do not constitute an argument.

It's nothing but a pack of cards.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
33. If your kid comes home with C's
Don't pull out the Ivy League applications just yet.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
34. K&R Bookmarked...Thanks prosense.... n/t
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
44. Bullshit.
Obama HASN'T turned out to be the "change agent" than many voted for, and many who voted for him HAVE been turned off.

Dean is correct.

"Selling someone short" means undervaluing him.

Just because someone values Obama less than you do doesn't mean they've "sold him short." That's a subjective judgment that doesn't apply.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thanks for the definition
That's exactly what I thought it meant. Oh brother.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Your welcome.
At least, you are if you use the information honestly.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
53. why the need to "convince" us? any real "change" should be obvious
Obama did nothing, really--jack, zip, nada--to truly FIGHT for a public option (which would have been a compromise to begin with). He "vowed" that any bill he signed must have a public option, and he had the backing of 3/4 of the citizens for that. His failure to get real health care reform, but only a mandated giveaway to insurance companies, was well orchestrated to make it appear to be "all Lieberman's fault," or due to "lack of votes"--his lack of interest in single payer/public option, weasel-wording about "not campaigning" on it, private negotiations with drug companies, and simply ignoring his fake "promise" of not signing a bill without a PO were a big wake-up call for me, and for many others, I have no doubt. I woke up to the fact that he wasn't sincere about a "public option," that he had used progressives for votes and then ignored them, and that only the moneyed interests were going to prevail, just as with the republicans.

Apparently you feel the need to spend all kinds of energy to "convince" everybody that a lot of "progress" is being made--but Coke and Pepsi (really a fitting analogy for the difference between the present form of "Democrats" and Republicans) put all kinds of energy into selling crap, too.

The DLC's agenda is obvious: squelch progressive voices and ram through as much republican-type legislation as possible while appearing to be "Democrats." AFA I'm concerned, the Democratic Party has been taken over by republicans whose first loyalty is to their big-money sponsors--those are the kind of people Obama has surrounded himself with.

And Howard Dean's opinion has magnitudes more credibility than anything you've posted. He at least has no hidden agenda.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. "Obama did nothing, really--jack, zip, nada--to truly FIGHT for a public option"
Yeah, the only thing Obama could ever do that would qualify as change was fight for a public option, something that many of the people still criticizing the bill considered a sell out a few months ago.

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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. Sure
He's done damn near what ANY other Democrat would have done... but we did't elect any other Democrat. we elected one who built his campaign around the liberal progressive base of the party. The HOPE and CHANGE it was implied that he would hit the gates running. To do something inspired Point to one singular issue that Obama has signed thus far that can separate him from the crowd of democrats? We hoped for something more, something inspiring and we got Clinton part II triangulation boogaloo. Oh and REMEMBER kids, if not for Howard Dean and his visionary 50 state strategy, which Rahmbo hated btw, Obama would NOT be in office.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. "He's done damn near what ANY other Democrat would have done" Then
Why didn't Clinton address these issues: HIV travel ban survived 22 years and national security document secrecy for a couple of centuries.

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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. grasping at straws
because A) when Clinton was first elected, we were just coming off the AIDS scare B) FOIA, C) Obama has continued Bush era policy in re AIDS and National Security, you sure you want to use that as an example
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. No, you are making simplistic statements to justify your argument and
your dismissal of the FOIA issue is proof.

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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. i'm saying
in the grand scheme of important policy and pivotal moments those rank damn near the bottom
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. In the "grand scheme" of things
what you're saying is irrelevant. People who care about the reversing the ban and FOI don't share opinion.

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
60. Its this kind of bullshit that keeps us ineffective
If we walked in lockstep, you assholes would have your precious SP
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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. alas
we are not good at party unity, never have been. we have way too many competing special interest groups. the GOP has maybe 3. we have at least 5 times that amount. and as Will Rodgers once said 'I'm not a member of any organized party I'm a Democrat"
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. then they should stop bitching about the lack of progress they create
just saying.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
69. Why "Accomplishment" Cut and Pastes are disingenuous strawmen
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Really thought out analysis there
# Established a credit card "bill of rights".

Which has been mostly meaningless.

# Expanded loan programs for small businesses.

Vague.


:rofl:

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Actually, anyone who reads it can see your taking out of context.
:shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Not at all. n/t
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Yes, at all. n/t
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 01:04 PM by Political Heretic
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
71. Oh well, now I finally
read what Dean actually said..not good. I don't agree with him and glad there's all this written refutation..actually dealing in the facts.

Thanks, Pro Sense, this should be on the front page & the greatest page but we'll just have to keep it kicked. :kick:
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
76. Howard is proving why he would have made a terrible President
He's too prone to screaming.
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