President Hugo Chavez threatens to imprison opposition governor

[Zorro]

Source: Associated Press

President Hugo Chavez has threatened to imprison the popular governor of Venezuela's western Zulia state for allegedly plotting to kill him.

Chavez made the accusation against Manuel Rosales, one of Venezuela's four opposition governors, just weeks before Nov. 23 gubernatorial and municipal elections. Rosales, the two-time governor of Zulia, is running for mayor of Maracaibo, Venezuela's second largest city.

He ran against Chavez for the presidency in 2006, but Chavez handily defeated him with nearly 63 per cent of the vote.

Chavez says he has decided to jail Rosales because he's one of those who wants to kill him.

Read more: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081025/world/chavez_opposition_1

[EFerrari]

1. This article is much less slanted and has some context:

Chavez says security concerns will keep him from summit
Posted: 26 October 2008 0729 hrs


CARACAS : Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez on Saturday announced he will not attend an upcoming summit in El Salvador due to security problems, while also charging that an opposition governor was trying to kill him.

snip

But "I have just called off my trip to El Salvador to the Ibero-American Summit because my life is not guaranteed safe," Chavez told businessmen at an event in Maracaibo, saying he made the call after "a series of information" of concern.

snip

"He is trying to kill me," Chavez said on national television. "I am not going to kill him. I don't kill anyone, but I am head of state.... I am determined to put Manuel Rosales behind bars," Chavez added to roaring applause.

The president urged prosecutors to act amid allegations that "11 estates have his name on them, luxurious homes, capital movements, legal fronts, mafias, drug trafficking, arms arsenals.




http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/385444/1/.html

[ronnie624]

3. "The president urged prosecutors to act

amid allegations that "11 estates have his name on them, luxurious homes, capital movements, legal fronts, mafias, drug trafficking, arms arsenals."


I have little doubt more detailed information is forthcoming. As usual, I'll reserve judgment until such is available.

I have not yet seen a quote by Chavez indicating that he is personally ordering the imprisonment of his political opponents, as the AP article implies. Your article, rather, claims he is urging prosecutors to investigate, which is a much more realistic scenario.

[EFerrari]

4. Exactly. Notice, Authorized Propaganda gives no context

because if they did, the whole tone of the story changes.

As usual, we'll find out facts in coming days.

[WriteDown]

11. Wasn't St. Hugo also supposed to...

release more info on the last plot to kill him? I believe he said that the info would be released on "Wednesday." I wonder what Wednesday he meant though.

[Dave From Canada]

13. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Stop apologizing for bad behavior. n/t

[ronnie624]

15. Can you elaborate?

The "bad behavior" you're referring to isn't clear.

Thanks.

[EFerrari]

17. Read the thread.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

5. Context from pro-Chavez Venezuelanalysis: Zulia Governor is Planning New Coup

Zulia Governor is Planning New Coup, Says Venezuelan President
October 14th 2008, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com

Mérida, October 13, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com)-- During a campaign event for the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) in the western state of Zulia on Sunday, President Hugo Chávez declared that the current governor of Zulia, Manuel Rosales, is behind a plot to overthrow the national government.

Venezuelan security authorities detained three men who penetrated the security perimeter around the stage where Chávez was celebrating Indigenous Resistance Day Sunday.

Jorge Rodríguez, the national coordinator of the PSUV and former vice president of Venezuela, said the men were wearing red shirts bearing the logo of the state oil company PDVSA, and were taking photos of Chávez's security personnel.

The men told interrogators that they were paid by Fabián Masías, a campaign manager for the opposition political party Un Nuevo Tiempo, which Rosales founded.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x8845

This is a pro-Chavez site. I've never found them to be factually inaccurate.

[Better Believe It]

48. Thanks: Glad You Don't Accept Without Question Anti-Chavez Propaganda

[LaPera]

6. Rosales, a right-wing puppet for BushCo....these right-wing fucks will never stop trying...

Like BushCo they aren't happy unless the workers are enslaved and the rich, corporations own everything (socialism for the rich, only) and Rosales wants his rich family & friends the elitist of Venezuela to control and own all the land & resources, the people are considered only peasants, Chavez has tried to change that....but it's the same old story, Rosales has CIA ties, Bush's last grasp and Rosales is his pawn....of course want to kill Chavez and bring Venezuela back to a country owned and controlled by the rightist, instead of the nationalized oil helping the people....Rosales wants the American oil companies to control it and he'll receive his monster share.

I despise corporate fascist insects like Rosales!

[EFerrari]

8. The OP never stops, either. The contextualizing stories with real information

have been in the Latin America forum for weeks. And yet, he posts this baloney from the AP which makes Chavez sound like he's rounding people up for no reason.

It's cr@p.

[EFerrari]

7. Bloomberg: Chavez Says CIA Has Offices in State of Zulia

Venezuela's Chavez Says CIA Has Offices in State of Zulia


By Daniel Cancel

Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency has offices in the oil-rich state of Zulia and the U.S. ambassador he expelled from the country ``was always there.''

Chavez criticized the governor of Zulia, Manuel Rosales, who ran against Chavez in the 2006 presidential elections. Chavez said Rosales has protected drug traffickers and plotted, along with the U.S., to overthrow his government.

``He's a criminal, if it were up to me he'd be behind bars on a water-and-bread diet,'' Chavez said of Rosales, in comments made on state television during a ceremony honoring indigenous communities. ``Why is it that all the drug traffickers we've captured have been in Zulia and with ties to Colombian paramilitary groups?''

Calls made to Rosales's office in Maracaibo seeking comment weren't immediately returned.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a8pRa0unVFaA&refer=latin_america

[LaPera]

9. Chavez should shut down the CIA's office's in Venezuela, what the fuck are they doing there....only

to kill Chavez (as they once tried in 2002) and then install Rosales as their right-wing puppet/dictator, to steal the people of Venezuela's oil. BushCo & the republicans only see Venezuelans as brown-skinned peasants/workers and should be exploited for his rich blue-bloods investors.

Chavez won a democratic election over Rosales, 62.9% to 34.4% - BushCo, if they can't steal the elections, they'll kill to get rid of the opposition!

BushCo has always wanted that Venezuelan oil, their rich agricultural & seafood products, cheap slave labor that Venezuela can offer corporations, as well as to get rid of any political opposition in Latin America. And what's the CIA purpose but to subvert & steal for American corporations.

Republican imperialist want it ALL - Everywhere in the world and Chavez stands in their way in South America and they can't stand it, hence the constant & continued flow of republican propaganda, it always works on the uninformed.

[Judi Lynn]

10. We saw this story only last month, also in Zulia, the discovery of that anti-tank weapon....

Two held over 'assassination plot'
25 September 2008 07:51am


Venezuelan authorities have arrested two people suspected of plotting to kill Hugo Chavez by blowing up the president's plane with an anti-tank weapon.

Justice Minister Tarek El Aissami said the suspects were apprehended during a raid on a house in western Zulia state, where authorities found a recoilless anti-tank weapon and four grenades.

He said the names of the suspects would not be revealed for "strategic reasons".

Mr El Aissami did not explain when and where the alleged conspirators planned to target Mr Chavez's plane. Zulia is located along Venezuela's border with Colombia about 310 miles west of Caracas.

At least six people, including retired and active military officers, have been detained so far for alleged links to the plot. Military prosecutors are questioning others. None of the suspects has been formally charged.

More:
http://latestnews.virginmedia.com/news/world/2008/09/25/two_held_over_assassination_plot

[WriteDown]

12. I remeber this well....

More info was to be released on "Wednesday." Sounds very Bush/Guantanamo-like. People just disappear and never able to complain.

[Judi Lynn]

33. Would you provide a link to anything you've got on people who are being questioned

vanishing in Venezuela?

You'd be making your case here if you've got something. Go ahead and post it now, for the sake of getting the truth out.

[WriteDown]

41. Sure....

From your link

Venezuelan authorities have arrested two people suspected of plotting to kill Hugo Chavez by blowing up the president's plane with an anti-tank weapon.

Justice Minister Tarek El Aissami said the suspects were apprehended during a raid on a house in western Zulia state, where authorities found a recoilless anti-tank weapon and four grenades.

He said the names of the suspects would not be revealed for "strategic reasons".

Mr El Aissami did not explain when and where the alleged conspirators planned to target Mr Chavez's plane. Zulia is located along Venezuela's border with Colombia about 310 miles west of Caracas.

At least six people, including retired and active military officers, have been detained so far for alleged links to the plot. Military prosecutors are questioning others. None of the suspects has been formally charged.

"What was being planned here was the president's assassination ... a plan with the objective of sowing violence in our country" and stopping the government agenda, Mr El Aissami said.

Mr El Aissami said the suspects caught in Zulia could have been planning to kill the president by shooting down the presidential jet - a possibility that Mr Chavez raised when the purported plot was first discovered.

"The cannon we found is for downing planes. It has highly destructive power," he said.

Mr Chavez claims that radicals backed by the United States are plotting to assassinate him.

The socialist leader recently ordered the US Ambassador Patrick Duddy to leave Venezuela, accusing the envoy of aiding the purported plot. US officials deny it.


So we don't know who these suspects are or even if they actually exist. I wonder if they get a trial or representation? Doubtful.

[EFerrari]

51. Why doubtful? Unlike our own, the Chavez government has zero history

of holding people without charging them.

[WriteDown]

67. THIS would be an example of that. nt

[EFerrari]

71. It WOULD be, were it true.

lol

Good lord.

[WriteDown]

73. So which part isn't true....

That there names haven't been released or they haven't been charged or they exist at all? LOL

[EFerrari]

74. It might be a very useful exercise for you to hunt that one down

for yourself.

It's not hard to do.

My experience chasing down these claims is what led me to support Chavez in the first place. Some horrible claim is floated in the American press and a few days later, oops -- it wasn't true. But, maybe you need to go there on your own to get it.

[WriteDown]

75. So basically you don't know?

At least you cleared it up :eyes:.

[EFerrari]

76. No, basically I'm tired of doing your work for you.

:)

[WriteDown]

77. So you don't trust the article that Judi Lynn cited?

Not sure I can help you then. If you can read Spanish, then I will be glad to find you a Spanish language article.

[EFerrari]

78. These issues are never resolved by one article.

You have to read everything you can find and piece together what is fact and what is slooppy reporting and what is simply propaganda.

So, for you to make this about Judi Lynn or one article is silly but it is a nice way to dodge doing any heavy lifting yourself.

[WriteDown]

79. There have been numerous articles posted....

No names or any other information. Your unwillingness to accept Hugo's and the Venezuelan governments own statements is very telling. Find a single article in Spanish or English that lists the names or of these individuals. I warn you though, it is difficult searching for a negative result.

[Judi Lynn]

53. How do you derive the claim someone has disappeared from this?

Go ahead and post something which provides any kind of base for your charge.

[WriteDown]

66. A person.....

Unnamed, no charges, no trial, no names. Pretty clear. You could also argue the case that these "suspects" do not exist of course.

[EFerrari]

18. Exactly. And that's how I knew this OP was flamebait.

It has no new information, much less information than the articles you posted in the Latin America forum and can have no purpose but to stir up a row in LBN.

But, that is the OP's stated purpose for being at DU. From the profile: "Tormenting pro-FARC, pro-Chavez, pro-Castro bullies"

Flamebait.

[ronnie624]

21. Provocation is his modus operandi.

History and facts mean nothing. Disseminating negative imagery through the use of symbology is key to his method.

[Zorro]

25. Ah yes. Posting a news article is "provocation"

Tell us about your experiences in Latin America, will ya? You can learn a lot that way.

Oh, and you've been informed before that gratuitous insults should be avoided, because I don't suffer fools gladly. That's one fact you seem to constently ignore.

[ronnie624]

26. For all I know,

your "experiences in Latin America" are a product of your imagination. Such information cannot possibly be verified and would be of little use in understanding the history and politics of Latin America. Coherent, verifiable news and historical documentation is what is really important, neither of which you seem to have any use for.

[Zorro]

27. So you really don't know much, then

You've never been to South America and rely solely on internet sources for information, just like your other comrades who pontificate with such authority.

Personal experiences tempers one's perspective on regional topics, junior. You'd understand that if you actually did live or travel in foreign countries.

[EFerrari]

30. You've tried this argument before and each time it's been pointed out to you

that by the same logic, universities all over the world would have to shut down. Harold Bloom never met Shakespeare and Kearns Godwin never met Lincoln. Garcia Marquez never spoke to an angel and King never saw the Promised Land.

Your claim is a nonsensical attempt to stifle discourse. Bully, heal thyself.

[Zorro]

35. Dismissing real-world experience as irrelevant to topical discussions

is is an ignorant, ivory-tower argument.

Boots on the ground helps reveal the truth. Too bad if you're uncomfortable with that concept.

[EFerrari]

37. No one dismissed personal experience. Your claim is that only personal experience

matters. And that is ridiculous.

And you have no idea what I'm comfortable with. That's just another attempt to poke at another poster's boundaries and make them uncomfortable.


Good luck with that.

[Zorro]

42. Wrong yet again

A good, balanced education is important; never said it wasn't. And personal experience complements that education by tempering one's perspective on topical matters.

It's unfortunate that many people think that unless they can corroborate information from (possibly dubious) internet sources, then it isn't real.

"No one dismissed personal experience?" Take a look at what started this subthread.

[EFerrari]

44. Oh, yes you did, with condescension and contempt:

"You've never been to South America and rely solely on internet sources for information, just like your other comrades who pontificate with such authority.

Personal experiences tempers one's perspective on regional topics, junior. You'd understand that if you actually did live or travel in foreign countries."

I imagine your attempts to disrupt LBN will be less successful after today. You might want to find a new hobby.

[Zorro]

47. Who's being disruptive?

So you don't like articles I post. I've got news for you: DU isn't your personal sandbox.

Don't like my responses to smug and patronizing insults? Then don't be smug and patronizing.

[EFerrari]

50. I added three articles with more information to your thread.

And your responses don't move me, one way or another. They are predictable.

[Zorro]

54. My responses don't move you, yet you are compelled to respond to them

Yeah, that's a real effective argument.

[EFerrari]

56. "Compelled"? That's an effort to pathologize someone who disagrees with you.

Cheap.

I've never seen you do one single positive thing here at DU.

It would be different if I just disagreed with you. That, I understand. That is just the strength of DU, we disagree with each other and still manage to argue and to come to a different understanding.

But you've never once contributed to a productive discussion of Latin America nor have you ever initiated one. You are here to disrupt our conversations, not to add to them.

[Zorro]

57. You obviously don't pay any attention, then

Making a trenchant comment, observation, or compelling argument that disagrees with the Chavistas always seems to trigger a patronizing or dismissive insult.

And if that's the way one chooses to respond to my remarks, then one has little to complain about when I make an effective and stinging response.

You want to discuss the issues, then stick to the issues. You yourself took this thread decidedly off-topic to turn it into an opportunity to take some snarky personal shots.

And like it or not, I reserve the right to respond in kind.

[EFerrari]

58. You posted an article that is an obvious hit piece

and that has been debunked for weeks in the Latin America forum.

That's the fact.

[Zorro]

59. So "debunk" the "hit piece" here, then

instead of unilaterally declaring the "fact" that it "has been debunked for weeks in the Latin America forum".

You'd be doing the readers of this thread a great service by pointing out specifically the misinformation.

[EFerrari]

60. So, you haven't bothered to read your own thread?

That must be a measure of how much you are really more interested in this issue than in disrupting LBN.

[Zorro]

62. So why can't/won't you "debunk" the article?

Inquiring minds want to know precisely where the misinformation exists in the original article.

And while you're at it, how about pointing out where it was also "debunked" for weeks in the Latin America forum.

[EFerrari]

64. Zorro, get a new hobby besides trolling the Latin America threads.

You add nothing, you cause only conflict and I can't believe it makes you happier.

[Zorro]

69. Keep wishin'

Since my opinion of Chavez is more in line with Obama's, I think I'll be sticking around.

And since you can't/won't "debunk" the AP article, here's something closer to the source that may add some clarity on what Chavez' remarks were. To me the AP article accurately reflects the threat to Rosales without all the stupid shit, although it does leave out the threat to Zulia province if his guy isn't elected governor.

"..."Yo estoy decidido a meter preso a Manuel Rosales. Estoy decidido. ¡Ya está bueno! ¡Ya basta! ¡Es que lo voy a meter preso a Manuel Rosales! Va a terminar preso. Sépalo el Zulia y Venezuela porque una calaña como esa tiene que estar en prisión, no gobernando (...) ni una familia, porque vaya qué daño les hace a sus hijos. No puedes estar suelto. Quiero que ustedes lo sepan, él (Rosales) está tratando de matarme. Yo no lo voy a matar, yo no mato ni a una cucaracha. Pero sí soy jefe de Estado. ¡Ya está bueno¡", subrayó Chávez, desde el centro de arte Lía Bermúdez, en Maracaibo (Zulia).

"Hago un llamado público a la fiscal general (Luisa Ortega), al Tribunal Supremo de Justicia (Luisa Estella Morales) (...) a que actúen. Aquí hay denuncias, 11 fincas tienen su nombre, viviendas, quintas, movimientos de capitales, testaferros, mafias viviendo aquí, mafiosos viviendo acá en el Zulia, venezolanos y colombianos, con arsenales de guerra, narcotráfico. Hay bastantes elementos para trabajar, pero yo me pongo al frente de la operación y esa operación se llama: Manuel Rosales, vas preso", insistió el Presidente..."

"...Chávez prometió al Zulia recursos adicionales para proyectos especiales, vivienda y vialidad y hasta un banco de desarrollo, pero sólo si Di Martino resulta ganador. "Con Rosales no me pidan nada especial", reiteró, al prometer pasar "días enteros a trabajar" en la entidad si "barren a Rosales". Al candidato opositor Pablo Pérez lo llamó "Pablo Bernardo Carlos Andrés Pérez. Son caimanes del mismo pozo. Él va a hacer lo que le mande don Corleone..."

Read the whole article at: http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/10/26/pol_art_chavez:--yo-estoy-d_1111610.shtml

My suggestion to you is to stick to the issues and stay away from gratuitous insults in the future.

[EFerrari]

72. This story isn't even LBN. It's been in the Latin America forum for quite a while.

And your appeal to authority has nothing to do with that.

[nolabels]

65. Most corporate media is slanted to help the imperialists that own it

If wasn't why would they want to own it. Like you are not posting to second graders here :-)

[Zorro]

22. Wrong again, as usual

You can't even accurately quote from my listed profile, can you?

My stated "hobby" is tormenting pro-FARC, pro-Chavez, pro-Castro bullies.

My purpose is to provide enlightened observations and commentary on subjects of consequence.

Your apparent purpose on DU is to attack and smear posters whenever they dare express any criticism of Chavez.

[EFerrari]

28. Tormenting, trolling, it amounts to the same thing. DU is a huge place.

Can't you find something positive to do here? Seriously. There are all kinds of forums, big and small. Surely one of them might be more amusing for you than posting tiresome flamebait.

[Zorro]

36. I see. Article you don't like = tiresome flamebait

Sorry if the real world is so uncomfortable for you.

[EFerrari]

38. Article that provides no new information -- that in fact, provides LESS information

than several posted to the Latin America forum for weeks.

Yes, that's flamebait.

I hope you got what you wanted. :)

[ohio2007]

14. won't that piss off a lot of people if he truely is a popular governor in that state ?

the murder evidence is sealed and decreed valid

Since taking office in 1999, Chavez has frequently accused his opponents of conspiring with Washington to assassinate him.


However, government and opposition rhetoric is becoming even more heated ahead of November's vote on 23 state governorships and 300 municipal posts.

[ronnie624]

16. You choose to embrace a version of events

that is lacking facts and a proper context. The AP article's premise rests on a pop version of history that is perpetuated by U.S. mainstream media, and is devoid of the CIA's continuous, violent activities there, which includes assassinations. Most U.S. Americans are unfamiliar with the truth.

As a regular poster on DU's Latin American threads, you do not have the luxury of pleading ignorance. Other motives must be at work. Perhaps some introspection is in order.

[ohio2007]

19. Are you saying the governor STOLE the state election ?

And why does Hugo allow the "CIA" to operate in his country after all these years of rule ?

maybe he finds the straw handy to throw around at key instances ? ;)

Chavez also said concerns for his safety led him to cancel a trip to El Salvador for next week's Ibero-American Summit because President Tony Saca's administration couldn't guarantee his safety.


Rosales has accused Chavez allies of making unfounded allegations as an electoral ploy to distract Venezuelans from pressing problems such as double-digit inflation and rampant crime.
Opposition leaders have also criticized a decision by the country's top anti-corruption official to bar 272 candidates from running in the upcoming elections because authorities suspect them of graft.
Critics say the move sidelined popular Chavez opponents.


Last week, a Venezuelan court reopened a case against a Caracas mayor suspected of involvement in violence during a short-lived coup attempt against Chavez in 2002.

paranoid ?



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3330748&mesg_id=3330748

[ronnie624]

23. As usual, your message has little or no meaning...

and around you go, back to the pretense that the U.S. has no history of interventionism in Latin America, which is absolutely necessary to rectifying the discrepancies between established history and your world view:

"maybe he finds the straw handy to throw around at key instances ?"

[EFerrari]

40. Curious, have you read Overthrow?

Or, Confessions of an Econmic Hitman?

Or, The Peoples' History of the United States?

Or, anything whatsoever on US meddling in Latin America?

Or, have you been following current events in Latin America at all in the last six months?

Because anyone who has could never call Chavez paranoid without a single fact in hand.

[tidy_bowl]

20. How come....

.....every time Chavez has a some real competition he discovers a plot to kill him? How convenient.

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

24. Rosales is not a competitor. He's the thug, drug running governor

of Zulia and as corrupt as they come.

How come you people never bother to read these threads if you're so "interested" in Chavez? Why bother with the show of an LBN story? We need a Chavez bashing forum for posters who just want to get right down to their "concern".

[AlphaCentauri]

29. it would be a high political risk to lie to his people

Chavez it's been watched by many who disagree with him so what can he gain lying

[EFerrari]

31. Chavez said he was determined to settle this problem and he asked

prosecutors to look into it. The AP reports that as Chavez unilaterally deciding to have someone arrested. That's our free press.

[AlphaCentauri]

32. I watched CNN reporting the same thing

I know, Chavez it's not Vush, he can't scare Venezuelans like republicans do to the US people.

[Judi Lynn]

39. You may recall mass protests against the armed Colombian paras & former militaries captured

who were found, after the rumors about their presence there swirled for months, living and training on the Daktari ranch of Cuban-Venezuelan opposition "guarimba" promoter (violent protest), Roberto Alonso, living next door to mega-media tycoon, and fishing buddy of _{George H. W. Bush,} and one of the coup-plotters from 2002, Gustavo Cisneros.

There were photos which appeared in Venezuela which someone found and posted here of the protests against the plot involving the Colombian mercenaries hired by the Venzuelan oligarchy to assassinate Hugo Chavez:

The Venezuelan elite imports soldiers
by Marta Harnecker
May 23, 2004

~snip~
A week earlier, on the 9th of May, on the outskirts of Caracas, a paramilitary force was discovered, dressed in field uniforms. Later, more were found, raising the total to 130, leaving open the possibility that there are still more in the country. The three Colombian paramilitary leaders of the group are members of the Autonomous Self-Defense Forces (AUC) in Northern Santander state in Colombia.

Some of the captured Colombian fighters have a long history as members of paramilitary forces. Others are reservists of the Colombian army and yet others were specifically recruited for the task in Venezuela and were surely tricked. Among these there are several who are minors.

~snip~
The government denounced the existence of an international plot in which the governments of the United States and of Colombian would be involved. U.S. Ambassador Shapiro denied that his country had any participation in the incident. And the Colombian president, for his part, solidarized himself with the Venezuelan government, affirming that he supports its actions against the members of the irregular Colombian military group, which then caused Chavez to publicly announce that he was convinced that President Alvaro Uribe did not have anything to do with the plot, even though he insisted on leveling charges against a Colombian general by the name of Carreño.

Even though the oppositional media conducted a big campaign to minimize the issue, trying to accuse the government of having organized a montage, so as to have a pretext for taking forceful measures that would impede a confrontation at the voting booth, every day more evidence surfaces that confirm the official version.

The Colombian attorney general's office has evidence that proves that paramilitary fighters were recruited and then transported to Venezuela and that extreme right-wing groups infiltrated intelligence services in the border town of Cúcuta. The proof was shown on the news program 'The Independent Network.' The program broadcast some intercepted recordings of paramilitary soldiers in Cúcuta, in which the operations they carried out in Venezuelan territory are reviewed.
(snip)

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5579

By the way, the former head of Uribe's national security department(DEA) Jorge Noguera, has ADMITTED recently he knew of this. He fled the country to Europe, was captured, returned, tried, then released after the courts claimed a mistake weas made during the trial. It was discussed fully here, over and over.



Colombian paramilitaries captured at a ranch owned by Cuban right-wing “exile” Roberto Alonso

January 25, 2005

The Granda Kidnapping Explodes
The US / Colombia Plot Against Venezuela
By JAMES PETRAS

A major diplomatic and political conflict has exploded between Colombia and Venezuela after the revelation of a Colombian government covert operation in Venezuela, involving the recruitment of Venezuelan military and security officers in the kidnapping of a Colombian leftist leader. Following an investigation by the Venezuelan Ministry of Interior and reports and testimony from journalists and other knowledgeable political observers it was determined that the highest echelons of the Colombian government, including President Uribe, planned and executed this onslaught on Venezuelan sovereignty.

Once direct Colombian involvement was established, the Venezuelan government demanded a public apology from the Colombian government while seeking a diplomatic solution by blaming Colombian Presidential advisers. The Colombian regime took the offensive, launching an aggressive defense of its involvement in the violation of Venezuelan sovereignty and, beyond that, seeking to establish in advance, under the rationale of "national security" the legitimacy of future acts of aggression. As a result President Chavez has recalled the Venezuelan Ambassador from Bogota, suspended all state-to-state commercial and political agreements pending an official state apology. In response the US Government gave unconditional support to Colombian violation of Venezuelan sovereignty and urged the Uribe regime to push the conflict further. What began as a diplomatic conflict over a specific incident has turned into a major, defining crises in US and Latin American political relations with potentially explosive military, economic and political consequences for the entire region.

In justifying the kidnapping of Rodrigo Granda, the Colombian leftist leader, the Uribe regime has promulgated a new foreign policy doctrine which echoes that of the Bush Administration: the right of unilateral intervention in any country in which the Colombian government perceives or claims is harboring or providing refuge to political adversaries (which the regime labels as "terrorists") which might threaten the security of the state. The Uribe doctrine of unilateral intervention echoes the preventive war speech, enunciated in late 2001 by President Bush. Clearly Uribe's action and pronouncement is profoundly influenced by the dominance that Washington exercises over the Uribe regime's policies through its extended $3 billion dollar military aid program and deep penetration of the entire political-defense apparatus.

Uribe's offensive military doctrine involves several major policy propositions:

1.) The right to violate any country's sovereignty, including the use of force and violence, directly or in cooperation with local mercenaries.

2.) The right to recruit and subvert military and security officials to serve the interests of the Colombian state.

3.) The right to allocate funds to bounty hunters or "third parties" to engage in illegal violent acts within a target country.

4.) The assertion of the supremacy of Colombian laws, decrees and policies over and against the sovereign laws of the intervened country
(snip)

http://www.counterpunch.org/petras01252005.html

More captured Colombian paramilitaries

Published on Monday, May 17,
by the Agence France Presse
Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela
Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'

President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."

The president's announcement came a week after authorities arrested 88 people described as Colombian paramilitaries holed up on property belonging to a key opposition figure.
(snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

12.30pm update

Colombian paramilitaries arrested in Venezuela

Jeremy Lennard and agencies
Monday May 10, 2004

Venezuelan police have arrested more than 70 Colombian paramilitary fighters who were allegedly plotting to strike against the government in Caracas, according to the country's president, Hugo Chávez.
Opposition leaders, however, were quick to dismiss the president's claim, calling the raids on a farm less than 10 miles from the capital a ruse to divert attention from their efforts to oust Mr Chávez in a recall vote.

During his weekly radio and TV broadcast, Hello Mr President, Mr Chávez said that 53 paramilitary fighters were arrested at the farm early on Sunday and another 24 were picked up after fleeing into the countryside.
The country's security forces were uncovering additional clues and searching for more suspects, he said, adding that the arrests were proof of a conspiracy against his government involving Cuban and Venezuelan exiles in Florida and neighbouring Colombia.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1213445,00.html



Temporary quarters on
Daktari ranch, owned by
Roberto Alonso, opposition



More captured Colombian paramilitaries

Three Venezuelan Officers and 27 Colombians Sentenced for Assassination Plot
A Venezuelan military court sentenced three Venezuelan military officers and 27 Colombians to two to nine years of prison for plotting an assault on Venezuela’s presidential palace and the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.Another 73 Colombians and 3 Venezuelan officers, who had also been suspected of participating in the plot, were freed after spending 17 months in prison.

118 Colombians were captured in May 2004 on a ranch just outside of Caracas, wearing Venezuelan military fatigues. Many of them appeared to be Colombian paramilitary fighters who had been recruited for a mission in Venezuela to attack the Chavez government and to kill the president. Six Venezuelan officers were also arrested in the course of the investigation.
Some of the Colombians were peasants who had been lured to come to Venezuela with the promise of jobs. Upon arriving, though, they were forced to engage in paramilitary training exercises and were forbidden to leave the ranch. 18 of the Colombians were released immediately after the capture and returned to Colombia because they were minors between 15 and 17 years. The ranch belongs to Roberto Alonso, a prominent Cuban-Venezuelan opposition activist. The highest level officer to be sentenced was General Ovidio Poggioli, who had been charged with military rebellion and was sentenced to 2 years and ten months of prison. The other two Venezuelan officers are Colonel Jesús Farias Rodríguez and Captain Rafael Farias Villasmil, who were each sentenced to nine years of prison. The 27 Colombians were each sentenced to six years prison.
When the group of Colombians were first arrested, many opposition leaders argued that the government had staged the arrests, in order to make the opposition look bad. They pointed out that no weapons were found with the paramilitary fighters and that the whole operation looked far too amateurish to have any chance of success. Also, it was argued that it is practically impossible to transport 120 Colombian paramilitary fighters undetected all the way from Colombia to Caracas, considering that there are numerous military control points along the way.
(snip)

http://www.voltairenet.org/article130297.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Venezuela frees Colombians convicted in alleged 2004 plot against Chavez

SAN ANTONIO, Venezuela (AP) — More than two dozen Colombian prisoners arrested three years ago in an alleged plot to assassinate President Hugo Chavez were freed Saturday after being pardoned by the Venezuelan leader.

The 27 Colombians were serving prison terms after being convicted of military rebellion. They were among more than 100 Colombians arrested in 2004 on accusations of plotting to stage a rebellion and assassinate Chavez.

Justice Minister Pedro Carreno, who shook hands with each of the prisoners at a ceremony, said that with Chavez's pardon "a beautiful message is being sent to the world."
The young men were then met by Colombian authorities and boarded a bus to take them across the nearby border to Colombia.

Chavez called the pardons a goodwill gesture that he hopes will spur an exchange of prisoners between the Colombian government and leftist rebels.

"There were people who were caressing the idea of assassinating me, and some continue to . . . and in this case (they were) fooling a group of boys," Chavez said of the young prisoners during a meeting with President Alvaro Uribe in Colombia late Friday.

More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2974812


One of the paramilitaries gave details of the opposition's
plans, but asked that his face not be seen fearing
retaliations against his family in Colombia Credit:Venpres

~snip~
About 100 of the irregulars are members of the Colombian military reserve, according the authorities' analysis of Colombian documents found in the farm, and according to testimony by some of the men captured.

According to the detainee, on Saturday afternoon, some "generals and colonels", organizers of the operation brought Venezuelan army uniforms, boots, and food. "We could not see them because we they only allowed us to see them from afar."

"When we knew about the plan, some of us tried to escape. One of the Colombians rebelled and managed to escape, but he was caught 100 meters away. They tied him and told him that next time he tried to escape, he would be killed. They then took away our ID cards and documents," said the detainee.

According to the witness, they held regular target practices, but access to weapons was limited, perhaps due to the fact that some have tried to escape. Part of the training consisted of a drill in which they entered into a house and killed some people.
(snip)

Media questioned

In contrast with other events, the local media, which openly opposes the government, has given little coverage to the capture of the paramilitaries. Among the media trying to downplay the events is Venevision, Venezuela’s largest commercial TV network, which is owned by billionaire Gustavo Cisneros. Only the local news network Globovision covered the news to some extend using TV footage from the state TV station.

President Chavez lamented the media’s attitude and said that "they have set this important event aside, denying society its right to be informed.” Only the state media has properly informed about the raids.

The Minister of Communication and Information Jesee Chacon condenmed the media's attitude towards an event "without precedent in recent history in Venezuela".

Lawmaker Saab also criticized the local commercial media for not covering the event and just giving TV space to opposition leaders who dismissed the raid as "a show created by the government".
(snip/...)

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1267

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Uribe admits anti-Chavez plot planned in Colombia

AFP, SANTA MARTA, COLOMBIA
Monday, Dec 19, 2005, Page 7
Venezuelan former soldiers plotted against President Hugo Chavez's government at a Colombian military building, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe said.

Uribe made the stunning disclosure on Saturday at the Caribbean resort town of Santa Marta where he is meeting with Chavez, and after analyzing documents furnished by Chavez.

"The Venezuelan soldiers who are in Bogota went to a building to meet with members of the Colombian military. President Chavez gave us these documents ... we analyzed them and this morning I said to President Chavez: `I must tell you the truth: this is a building of Colombia's public forces,'" he said.

Uribe said that intelligence efforts against the Venezuelan government are conducted in the building, and took full responsibility for the affair.

The two presidents met for six hours amid a climate of unusual goodwill on Saturday to discuss the purported Bogota-based conspiracy against the Venezuelan president, which Chavez first disclosed to his Colombian counterpart during a meeting in Venezuela on Nov. 24.More:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/12/19/2003285082

Information supplied D.U.ers who opt to inform themselves by D.U.'er "Oblivious:"

Uribe reprimands DAS chief on plot against Chávez
Colombian President Álvaro Uribe publicly admonished Andrés Peñate, chief of Colombian secret police DAS, because he rebutted Uribe's claims that former Venezuelan military planned a plot in Bogotá against President Hugo Chávez.

...On Sunday, Chávez ensured that a US military officer also attended such a meeting.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2005/12/19/en_pol_art_19A645877.shtml

. . . .

Chavez thanks Colombia for revealing coup plot
CARACAS, Dec. 18 (Xinhuanet) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez praised his Colombian counterpart for telling him of a Colombia-based plot against the Venezuelan government which involved an official from the United States.

...In his Sunday broadcast, Chavez insisted that the meeting had taken place in a military building in Bogota, with an active Colombian colonel and a official in attendance.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-12/19/content_3939918.htm

. . .

Uribe confirms anti-Chávez meeting
BOGOTA, Colombia -- Members of the Colombian armed forces met with Venezuelan ex-military officers opposed to the Chávez government in a Colombian government building, President Uribe admitted on Saturday.

..“An official of the United States participated,” Chavez asserted. “I am sure that Uribe will not tolerate any conspiracy, just as we will not tolerate any against him.”

http://www.thedailyjournalonline.com/article.asp?CategoryId=12393&ArticleId=209183

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1993999#1997373

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A different situation had _Bush's ambassador informing Venezuela's Vice President Rangel of a plot he knew to kill Chavez:

Statements Indicate Chávez May Indeed Be in Somebody's Crosshairs

IPS
March 09, 2005
Analysis by Humberto Márquez

CARACAS, Mar 9 (IPS) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez has repeatedly claimed that the U.S. government has plans to assassinate him and thus trigger chaos that would allow it to intervene militarily and take control of the South American country's huge oil reserves.
Now, recent statements by the top U.S. official in Venezuela appear to back up his fears of a plot against his life.

In an interview last weekend with the Peruvian newspaper El Comercio, Venezuelan Vice President José Vicente Rangel reported that former U.S. Ambassador Charles Shapiro had warned him of the possibility of an attempt on Chávez's lifeblockquote]More:
http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/americas/venezuela/2897.html

[AlphaCentauri]

43. Thanks for the well documented reminder Judi

:hi:

[Judi Lynn]

46. They've got the smears, propaganda, delusions, we've got the FACTS!

Thanks to you for your always great posts. :hi:

[Judi Lynn]

34. Spend some time on researching US history against leftist South American, Central American leaders.

You do yourself a disservice, as you will quickly learn, by claiming just because you haven't heard of something, it hasn't happened. You are stunningly uninformed.

[Peace Patriot]

68. Chavez has never had any "real competition" in Venezuela.

That is partly a consequence of Bushwhack money and interference. You can't get anywhere in opposition ranks in Venezuela unless you are a rightwing nutball, liar, coup plotter and/or scumbag. That's what Bushitism does to political parties, here and there.

It is also a fact on the ground. In the last presidential election, Chavez whomped Rosales, fair and square, getting 63% of the votes--a landslide. There has been no "real competition" because the opposition's idea of ruling Venezuela is "the rich rule and the poor shut up and remain poor." Not a great platform in a country with an election system that is far, far more transparent than our own. The guy who is using Venezuela's oil profits to help the poor, and who has presided over a nearly 10% economic growth rate over the last five years, with the most growth in the private sector, has a persuasive case before the voters, and the opposition doesn't have dick.

Kind of the same thing that's happening here--only we have the scary complication of 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting, controlled by Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls--a reality that may be why Obama's actual policies are so Corpo-friendly and tame. We really need an FDR. The Venezuelans have one, and they keep electing him, by increasing margins of victory--the same thing that happened with FDR, who ran for, and won, four terms in office.

So, when you say, "every time Chavez has a some real competition he discovers a plot to kill him? How convenient"--which time are you talking about? Chavez has NEVER had any "real competition," and he doesn't have any now, as to his government's national policy. He has a 75% approval rating, according to the most recent poll.

What is happening right now in Venezuela is a by-election. Chavez is not running. Candidates for mayor, the National Assembly and other offices are running. It's not clear, really, whether the plot against him in Zulia--for which there is other evidence, besides Chavez's statements--is directly related to the by-elections. It barred Chavez's attendance at an important economic conference in El Salvador--a meeting we can be sure he wanted to attend. This is further evidence that the plot is real. If it wasn't, he would be attending. I've also read a leaked transcript of a meeting in Colombia discussing the plot in Zulia. Caches of guns have been discovered in Zulia. The president of Ecuador says there is a plot in Zulia. And the Bushwhacks just reconstituted the U.S. 4th Fleet to wander around off Zulia's oil coast on the Caribbean, apropos of nothing, and to the alarm of leaders like Lula da Silva, president of Brazil, who said that the 4th Fleet also threatens Brazil's coastal oil reserves.

This is a general SITUATION, Tidy_bowl--and possible leadup to a war in which the U.S. could well become involved (indeed, is already involved, in my opinion). It is not something Chavez is making up, to score political points--although he may be trying to score political points, in the by-elections. Why wouldn't he? He's a politician. He's pissed at not being able to attend the economic meeting. And he has been putting up with this shit from the opposition--coup plots, assassination plots, and the Bush Junta funding and "training" the opposition (with our tax money) for six years and more.

On top of everything else, the Bushwhacks were funding and "training" the opposition--white separatists--in Bolivia, who rioted a few weeks ago, machine-gunned 30 unarmed peasants, sacked government and NGO offices, and blew up a gas pipeline, in their "cause" of splitting off Bolivia's gas/oil provinces into fascist mini-states, where they and their global corporate predator pals control the resources. Bolivia's president threw the U.S. ambassador out the country for this meddling. And it took the combined efforts of all the other countries of South America--acting through their new "Common Market" (UNASUR), which does not have the U.S. as a member--to calm things down, and negotiate a compromise.

Your statement--that you think Chavez "conveniently" invents plots to kill him "every time" he has "real competition" (which he has never had), ignore the context of this disclosure--the events in Bolivia, Brazil's concern about the 4th Fleet, Zulia's vulnerability to the 4th Fleet, the governor of Zulia's previous association with an assassination/coup plot against Chavez (he had to publicly disavow it, in the last presidential election), the importance of the economic meeting in El Salvador in view of the Bushite economic meltdown, and numerous other events and facts, besides the by-elections, that surround Chavez's open accusation. In fact, everyone in South America is worried about this situation--about the northern flank of their new "Common Market," Zulia, with its rich oil reserves, getting hit with civil war, and lopped off by the U.S., just as the U.S. was trying to do in Bolivia. Zulia is more vulnerable than Bolivia, and would be more of a prize to the Bushites.

Chavez is not just a politician. He is the head of state! He has responsibility for the security of his country, and, through his alliances, for the security and development and success of other UNASUR countries. To attribute to him the single motive of personal ambition, and to presume that he is lying, is so Bushwhacky of you. I hope you are capable of better informed, deeper analysis than this. You may not like Chavez, or agree with him, but, please, try to bring some facts to the table, and help us all understand this subject matter better, and your viewpoint on it. Criticizing Chavez is one thing, but this kind of unfactual, kneejerk statement just makes me dismiss you.

And welcome to DU! Really! I hope you bring us information and analytic skills that can help us all. Your comment doesn't bode well, but I try to keep an open mind on newbies, and really on everyone. I truly hope you are better than this comment.

[Doctor_J]

45. Maybe Hugo should just mail him some anthrax

that's what "leaders" do here.

:shrug:

[Downtown Hound]

49. I'm sure in our free and democratic United States

We would simply let would be presidential assassins go, right?

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

52. I'm glad Chavez cancelled his trip to El Salvador.

It's a small place with too many sharp turns.

And, they are set to elect a lefty. This meeting may have been bait to throw both Chavez and the election off track.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Bush has meddled in every election in Central America. Unbelievable.

He even sent Oliver North to troll Nicaragua. Someone wrote it was similar, having this Iran/Contra figure dragging his ass around there, to sending out Frank Nitti to cruise by someone the Mafia wanted to intimidate.

_Bush sent his brother _{Jeb Bush} to threaten El Salvador, with insinuations that El Salvadoran people working in the States would lose their ability to send home their remittances. Here's a good quote from an article discussing the last big election in El Salvador in 2004:

The outcome on election day reflect the tactics of the ARENA presidential campaign, including the influence of their benefactors the Bush Administration. In fact the FMLN has declared fear as the real winner of the election.

More:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0324-10.htm

Sure hope they are able to vote in the candidate who will work for the people of El Salvador this time.

[Peace Patriot]

61. Associated Pukes scumbag journalism--the only quote in the article is of Rosales.

Throughout this so-called 'news' article, the so-called journalist (Rachel Jones-Associated Puke) merely paraphrases Chavez and doesn't give him even one direct quote. The opposition leader, however, gets a full sentence quote.

Here's Rosales:
"'I respect (Chavez) as president but he has not respected me as governor,' Rosales told television station Globovision."

Here's what she does to Chavez:

"Chavez says he has decided to jail Rosales because he's one of those who wants to kill him." (No quote by Chavez.)

(And the lede) "President Hugo Chavez has threatened to imprison the popular governor of Venezuela's western Zulia state for allegedly plotting to kill him." (No quote by Chavez - no follow-up quote in the body of the article.)

This lede furthermore describes Rosales as the "popular" governor of Zulia, without providing evidence for that in the article. (The only evidence in the article contradicts it--that Rosales got whomped by Chavez in the last presidential election.) A poll just out gives Chavez a whopping big approval rating (nearly 75%). Why isn't this cited? (I.e., 'President Hugo Chavez, whose approval rating stands at nearly 75%, according to a recent poll, said "such and such"' about the governor of Zulia).

The Associated Puke occasionally uses quoted phrases, when it comes to what Chavez said, in the midst of paraphrasing him--but this does not allow him to speak for himself:

"Chavez said Saturday 'it's no coincidence' that authorities arrested two people last month in Rosales' Zulia state in an alleged plot to shoot down the presidential plane with an anti-tank weapon."

"He called Rosales a corrupt gangster 'worse than Don Corleone' of the 'Godfather' movies."

---------------

This is scurrilous and devious journalism, for it allows the so-called journalist to twist and color the statements of the target, and even to make things up out of whole cloth. A quoted remark can be checked. A paraphrased remark can be twisted, colored or made up, and is much harder to verify, since the reader would need to call up Chavez or his aides and ask them--is this an accurate representation of what he said? It also gives the "yellow journalist" more room in which to "frame" the target's remarks, and omit, invent or colorize the context in which the remarks were made.

By contrast, see this AFP version, which clearly indicates the context--Chavez having to cancel his trip to El Salvador--and quotes Chavez directly:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/385444/1/.html

The Associated Pukes article creates the impression that this is all just pre-election vitriol. The AFP article--which exhibits other kinds of prejudicial writing--at least gets the context clear--that Chavez's life has been threatened, again, and that he is therefore pushing prosecutors to pursue the investigation in Zulia of the evidence that Rosales may be involved (again). (In 2006, Rosales was obliged to publicly distance himself from the then-current plot to kill Chavez.) (AFP doesn't mention this. I'm mentioning it. AFP is merely better than AP--which is wretched--not a whole lot better.)

Upshot: We don't know what Chavez actually said, from the AP article. It only quotes the opposition. The article gives no location or occasion for these remarks (neither for Chavez nor Rosales), which further muddies the circumstances, and makes verification even harder. It mentions "Saturday" for a time-frame, but then the article jumps around in time and personage, to assemble other items in AP's case against Chavez--for instance, the Electoral Commission's qualification process for candidates (something Chavez has no control over), and a court proceeding "last week" about the 2002 violent rightwing military coup against the Chavez government (involving a different current opposition candidate)--something else Chavez has no control over.

AP's "case against Chavez" is that he is a "dictator" who is suppressing the opposition, in the context of the Venezuelan by-elections. People who, by their own actions and words, have been associated with past plots against Chavez's life and coup plots, are running for office in Venezuela, and holding office. That is certainly evidence that Chavez is not a "dictator," and doesn't control everything. Chavez's open accusations against Rosales are to be preferred to secret and clandestine government activities. (I'm reminded of the Bushwhacks' destruction of Eliot Spitzer's career, by springing a prostitution charge against him--out of their millions of NSA spying files--in the midst of his investigation of the New York's banking system.) Rosales knows that he is being investigated. Everybody in Venezuela knows of his associations. It is no secret. If charges are filed against him, he will be free to mount a defense. Chavez is the legitimate, ultimate director of law enforcement and prosecutions, as any president is. Indeed, it is this presidential power that Karl Rove used to force U.S attorneys to file false cases of "voter fraud" against voter registration groups like ACORN, and why U.S. attorneys like David Iglesias resigned in protest. If Chavez is using that power for political purposes--that is, if these are false charges--you can be sure we will hear about it from the vociferous Venezuelan anti-Chavez press (who make Faux News look mild), from our own Corpo/Fascist press, and from the rightwing opposition, who are not shy about speaking their minds, and who seem quite free to do so.

It is difficult to imagine what it must be like to be Hugo Chavez, with the entire force of the U.S. secret government, the Bush Cartel, global corporate predators like Exxon Mobil and the World Bank/IMF, and the political opposition in his own country, gunning for him, slandering him every day, designing dirty ops against him (like the absurd "suitcase full of money" caper out of Miami), and plotting his death, and the overthrow of Venezuelan democracy. I think he is a plainspoken leader who believes in openness, so when his intel service finds stuff out and tells him, he turns around and tells the public. The public is his safest harbor--remarkably demonstrated in 2002, when tens of thousands of Venezuelans poured out of their hovels and surrounded Miraflores Palace, to peacefully defeat that coup. He believes in them. He owes his power to them. He has worked hard on their behalf--bucking all of these murderous forces--with visionary "New Deal"-programs for the vast poor majority, and economic development for the country and the region.

In this context--living as he does with a Bushwhack bull's eye target on his back--he has been denied the freedom to attend an important economic summit in El Salvador--made even more important by the financial 9/11 that the Bush Junta just pulled off against the U.S. and the world. He is likely very angry at these plots for restricting his freedom. And it sounds like he's finally had it with the Venezuelan opposition's collusion on them. He has been very mild and peace-minded in his reactions to them in the past--almost to a fault, in my opinion. (Evo Morales has the same "fault"--if it is a fault--being too peaceful.) (Listen to me! But there is truth to it, with regard to being head of state.) But he is taking the best route, in dealing with them--the legal system. Either they are guilty, as individuals, of plotting his death and another coup, or they are not. If there is sufficient evidence, they should be tried. Venezuelans are very proud of their democracy and I don't think any of them (except some members of the opposition) would be involved in "kangaroo" trials. I have sufficient faith in the Venezuelan justice system that they will not be falsely convicted.

Chavez is likely pretty sure of his ground--in the military, the intel service, and legally--to come right out and say that Rosales is trying to kill him. If Chavez really is just "playing politics," that will become apparent. Public statements by the president of Ecuador, and other evidence, point strongly to a plot in Zulia, and it is the most strategically likely place that the Bushwhacks would strike, either sparking Oil War II: South America--for Obama to have to deal with, in his first months in office--or reserving their contacts in Zulia for a private war plan (which I believe is being orchestrated by Donald Rumfeld) to be sprung later on. The U.S. 4th Fleet could be involved in either case.

Chavez may be using some of this info to win votes in the by-elections. But it may also be a coincidence that the recent plot--the one barring him from the El Salvador meeting--is occurring in the midst of the by-elections campaign. And is it not relevant? Why shouldn't he let voters know what he thinks is happening? I think there is sufficient evidence to be concerned that the rightwing in Zulia may be the next oil rich province of a leftist country (after Bolivia's eastern provinces) to try to declare their 'independence' with U.S. support. Zulia is on the Caribbean, as easy mark for the 4th Fleet, and adjacent to Colombia, which the Bushwhacks have larded with $6 BILLION in military aid, and which is rife with death squads, mercenaries (including Blackwater) and U.S. special forces, as well as there being a "war room in the U.S. embassy in Bogota with a direct link to the ground ops (as revealed in the Bettancourt escapade). The US/Colombia tested out military systems earlier this year, with their bombing/raid on Ecuador. They are about to lose the US military base at Manta, Ecuador, early next year. So the timing of that may be a consideration.

The Associated Pukes will root around in Venezuela, looking for anything they can find to make Chavez look bad, and trying to turn the death threats against Chavez to toward Corpo/Fascist purposes--typical Bushwhackism, blaming the victim--but neither they nor other Corpo/Fascist 'news' monopolies will give you the context you need to understand these events. They don't want their readers to understand these events; they want their readers unconsciously absorb their clever brainwashing. AP is disgustingly manipulative. They have to report on this, but they won't let Chavez explain it for himself. They paraphrase him, and try in every way they can to contradict him. AFP, as I said, isn't much better. Apropos of nothing, they throw in that "Chavez is the key international backer of Cuba's communist government, and has close ties with leftist leaders in Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador."

They don't mention that he also has close ties with Lula da Silva, president of Brazil, and Cristina Fernandez, president of Argentina, and, indeed, with most of South America's leaders. To mention just the communists and these particular "leftists" is a vast distortion in itself, and why mention it, except to say that neither do the governments of Cuba, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador care for U.S. assassination plots against their leaders? They don't say that, of course. It is the last sentence in the article and comes out of nowhere. What relevance does it have, that Chavez is close to these leftist leaders? It is arguable that his closeness to the presidents of Brazil and Argentina is much more relevant, because these leaders were key to stopping the recent Bushwhack plot in Bolivia! This greatly increases the likelihood that they will also be important in fending off coup plots in Venezuela.

But no, the Corpo/Fascist "meme" is that Chavez is some kind of "rogue" leader and that the Bushwhack dictate to South America to "isolate" Chavez has been successful. The opposite is true in both cases. Chavez is well-liked by, and is working closely with, all of these leaders, who have unanimously thumbed their nose at the Bushites about "isolating" Chavez, and have openly defied it. THAT is relevant to fascist/Bushite plots in Venezuela, and should have resulted in a longer list of Chavez allies, in the AFP article.

This is what I mean by distortion, disinformation, psyops and brainwashing. Both AP and AFP--and others--paint the picture of Chavez that they want you to see, in your unconscious mind--which is NOT an objective picture of Chavez, based on facts. And they use many devious writing tricks to accomplish this purpose.

[EFerrari]

63. If Chavez was the thug of right wing imagination Rosales would already be in custody.

It's simply no such thing except in the spin of our whore media.

How many despots do you know that wait for approval to haul people off?

It's tireseome, already, to keep pointing out how the AP continues to twist and spin.

Chavez called for the Judiciary to do its job. And the AP reports that as if he is kidnapping people in the night. It's ridiculous already.

[Peace Patriot]

70. You said better than I did, in a whole lot fewer words!

My worry is that these psyops are not just idle media games. It's a very intense campaign. It is so similar to the Iraq WMD campaign that it feels like the prelim to war. It may be yet another oil war that the realities of the world have made it impossible for the Bushwhacks to carry out, like Iran. But, on the other hand, denial of Iran's oil must make Venezuela's oil all the more tempting to the servants of Exxon Mobil. And, given the Democrats'--and even Obama's--echoing of the psyops 'talking points,' we are not out of the woods, as to Oil War-South America, just by Obama taking power as president and commander in chief. We could see a "Bay of Pigs" scenario, a "Gulf of Tonkin" scenario, and a whole lot of other scenarios, to try to trap Obama into an oil war in this hemisphere, and we've got the Clinton-Biden faction to worry about on both the economic and military fronts. Clinton's chief campaign adviser was a paid agent of the Colombian government, for godssakes. And Biden has always been wedded to the war industry. Biden on the ticket was the signal that Obama had to compromise with the pro-corporate, pro-war Democratic leaders, in order to win. They now have the lead on policy, from what I can see. And what Bill Clinton did, as president, was to set us up for Bush's war on Iraq, and for the 'free trade' looting that led to this financial 9/11. That faction of the leadership--the Clintons, the Bidens, the Feinsteins, the Dodds, the Reids, the Pelosis, the McAuliffes--betrayed us on the war and on 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting (all in the same month-Oct 02). Neoliberalism was their baby. Bush just took it to its logical conclusion: looting everybody, by force and by Diebold.

I am encouraged by what I think was an Obama emissary to Chavez earlier this year (Bill Richardson, who spent an amicable hour and a half with Chavez, ostensibly about the three US hostages in Colombia, and afterwards did a friendly press conference), and of course by Obama's pledge to "talk to our enemies," and I certainly know what a minefield he is walking through, to try to oust this extremely dangerous junta. I do believe that he is a peace-minded man, but the Bushwhacks have not set things up for peace, and the global corporate predators who are running things have put such a squeeze on the poor, here and worldwide, that conditions looks hauntingly similar to the Great Depression-WW II era. Who will be the aggressor this time--over resources, land and cheap labor--while harboring notions of "superiority"? It could well be us.

Obama is certainly no candidate for Hitler II, but there is no security, with the voting system the way it is, and the media the way it is, and the financial 9/11 that just occurred, that he will be re-elected in 2012. In fact, it looks all set up for Hitler II to be Diebolded into office at that point. And they won't need "brownshirts" stuffing ballot boxes and beating up voters to do it. One hacker, a couple of minutes, and millions of votes can changed, without detection. When have fascists and multi-billionaires ever had that kind of power and not used it?

Their letting Obama win will be used to shut us all up about the 'TRADE SECRET' code. And that will be that.

Dark thoughts on this morning, nine days before an Obama rout. The lies about Chavez lead me here. And the 'TRADE SECRET' code. And the 4th Fleet. How can the 4th Fleet be justified? What threat is there in the Caribbean? Absolutely none. But what is there, in the Caribbean, that Exxon Mobil wants? Zulia. Is this the "difficult decision" Biden was talking about the other day, that he said we will need to trust them on?