Evo Morales: 'Chicken causes baldness and homosexuality'

[naaman fletcher]

If you don't want to end up bald or gay, don't eat chicken, says Bolivian President Evo Morales. Speaking at an environmental conference this week in Cochabamba, Bolivia, (officially titled the World People's Conference on Climate Change and the Rights of Mother Earth) Morales told attendees in an inaugural address that chicken producers inject female hormones into the fowl, "and because of that, men who consume them have problems being men."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2010/04/bolivia-president.html

A mistranslation, I am sure.

[Meshuga]

1. Here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHNU1WvZnGE

GLBT groups in Bolivia are not very happy.

[subsuelo]

3. where does he mention sexuality? (clue: nowhere) n/t

[ChangoLoa]

5. "Deviation from being like men". What's your interpretation? nt

[Mika]

7. Maybe he's referring to natural hormonal differences between M & F.

When one ingests steroids and hormones from various food sources over a period of time, one's hormonal balance changes (and that can affect many different cellular operations). For example, in extreme cases some young men grow breasts or the breast cancer rates spike, or small or inactive testicular growth, etc etc. Hormonal imbalances can even change genetic and/or physiological gender of a fetus during pregnancy. Hormones do affect hair growth.

I saw & heard nothing out of Evo's mouth referring to sexual preference.

It was a rather clumsy non-technical statement, that the RW sees fit to distort, and based on the comments in the LBN version of this story there are not a lot of people willing to pay attention to the details and have swallowed the anti Evo RW meme hook-line-and-sinker.

---

[naaman fletcher]

9. yeah, that's what he meant..

Look, anybody who has traveled in Latin America knows what a "macho" culture it is. I know we are not supposed to say that because the US is the source of all racism, etc. except of course anybody who has been there knows thats BS. Hell the cab drivers in Panama yell out there cell phone numbers at women walking down the street. It's a macho culture. Faggot jokes are routine. Evo might be a great guy, but he said something mildly stupid. It's no big deal, but you look silly the way you try to create silly explanations when it's in almost certainly the obvious explanation:

[subsuelo]

10. I think that's a harsh stereotype, naaman.

Because Evo Morales is a Latino = therefore he must be a faggot-joke-telling, gay-hating macho man.

No, I don't agree with that.

I guess it is enlightening to see how yourself (and I assume others) automatically concluded without question that "deviations among men" *must* have referred to gays. Oh, it's because a *Latino* man said it - therefore, Duh! He **must** have been slamming the gay community!

Actually, come to think about it, your view is damn offensive. Are you aware of that?

[naaman fletcher]

13. Aware of what?

Latin American cultures are very macho, and full of gay jokes. Evo said something that to any person who is not a kool-aid drinker knows that he meant a gay joke.

[Meshuga]

17. Unfortunately, many of the Latin American cultures tolerate homophobia and...

misogyny. It is a fact and not stereotype. This is not something that I am proud to admit about my own country but it is a reality.

One would have to watch our tv programs to see the explicit debasing of gays and women. Not recognizing this fact (specially from the so called Latin American experts) is rather disturbing. Do you want to see racism, chauvinism, homophobia? Take a look at the comedy shows and the comedic telenovelas. Listen to the popular jokes and live the culture to see how women and gays are treated.

You should not bother with the attempts to attack you personally since it is expected if you disagree and show any disturbing facts about their infallible heroes.

[naaman fletcher]

29. according to Mika you are a bigot.

But I guess he has just never been there.

[subsuelo]

31. While 'bigot' isn't a word I would choose - your remarks were offensive

When you depict all Latino men as faggot-joke-telling, gay-hating macho men, that is offensive. I suggest you stop trying to defend it.

While it's not necessarily bigoted imo, which indicates a certain hatred towards others, your comments definitely suggest extreme ignorance. Not to mention the fact you completely ignore Bolivia's progressive constitution which promotes equality for gays. Gee, now how did that work out? A Latino gay-hating culture (that would be your view) with a constitution that protects rights for gays?

You need to read more books or something - get a little more educated about Latinos and about Evo Morales. And seriously, quit trying to defend the stupid remarks.

[naaman fletcher]

33. Of course, I said no such thing.

Therefore it's impossible to comment.

[subsuelo]

34. your quote: " It's a macho culture. Faggot jokes are routine."

You posted this and the rest of your statements, to argue the position that what Evo Morales *really meant* was a reference to sexuality.

You're saying that Evo Morales must have been referring to sexuality, because he is a Latino man, in a "macho culture" where "Faggot jokes are routine".

*That* is the harsh stereotyping of Latino men that you have been called out on.

(Amazing that one has to spell this all out...)

[naaman fletcher]

38. Yes

It is a macho culture and faggot jokes are routine. Do you disagree?

[subsuelo]

41. Are you at all open to the possibility that not every Latino man ...

... takes part in "macho culture" and "faggot jokes"?

[naaman fletcher]

44. Why would you ask that?

I never said that every latino man does that. Please read what I write.

[subsuelo]

46. Exactly, thank you

Then you cannot presume that what Evo Morales meant was a reference to homosexuality, based on some perception of yours about "macho culture" and "faggot jokes".

[naaman fletcher]

49. I presumed what he meant,

based on what he said, and the context of the culture. This is only a big deal because of the extreme length that you guys are going to in order to defend him.

[subsuelo]

51. No, it's a big deal because your presumptions are based on a stereotype

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

:shrug:

[naaman fletcher]

52. It is a correct stereotype that

as a matter of fact to anybody who has spent time there, it is a "macho culture" where faggot jokes are routine.

[subsuelo]

59. I just think it's unfair to make assumptions of others based on broad stereotypes

We're all individuals - not everyone fits nice and neat into stereotypes and generalizations.

[naaman fletcher]

62. I never said that every individual in Latin America is that way. nt.

[subsuelo]

64. Well, you assumed so with Evo Morales - why is he your exception? n/t

[naaman fletcher]

65. I assumed that..

When weighing what he said (which on the surface is pretty clearly an anti-gay joke), vs. the BS explanations that Mika and others came up with, that it is relevant that in Latin cultures faggot jokes are routine. In all other aspects DU is big on understanding cultures and how they impact things, unless, obviously, it is a part of Latin culture that people want to deny exists, when in fact it does exist.


For example: If a southern politician mentioned having biscuits with gravy for breakfast, and someone from New England wondered if he meant dog biscuits with brown gravy, it would be important to point out that biscuits with gravy are a big part of southern culture and they mean breakfast biscuits with white gravy. It wouldn't prove that is what the politician meant, but the cultural aspect is certainly a key piece of information.

So, if Morales says something that is fairly clearly a faggot joke, but Mika comes up with a rather bizarre alternative theory, it is certainly relevant information to point out that faggot jokes are routine in Latin cultures.

[Mika]

11. One word.

Bigot.

---

[naaman fletcher]

14. Yes, the people who tell gay jokes are bigots.

Not me, they offend me. It's too bad that they don't offend you.

[Meshuga]

18. Exactly. n/t

[naaman fletcher]

30. you are being challenged here...

People who actually live in Latin America are affirming that there is a macho culture like I described. I thought I would give you a heads up so that you can call them bigots. you're welcome.

[killbotfactory]

19. If Bolivia had such a macho culture

why does their new constitution, adopted while Evo has been in office, in no uncertain terms protects the rights of homosexuals?

[naaman fletcher]

20. Because

Because Evo is a good leader and the people by and large might not be big fans of homosexuality but are generally live and let live vis a vis the law. That has not that much to do with male posturing. Really, it is frightening to me how many people in this forum are unaware of the macho Latin American culture, makes me wonder how much people here really know anything about Latin America as you don't have to be there much to see it.

[Bacchus39]

21. yep, some that post here have never been there. and yes, in general, culturally LA is more conserva

extended family is more tight, religion is more important or at least more widely observed, and homosexuality isn't widely accepted. Just ask Evo.

there are more progressive attributes as well, (aside from Cuba and Venezuela's very liberal permissiveness of free expression and alternative political views of course.) but lets see if any of the experts can list some of them.

[killbotfactory]

24. Just ask Evo

Has any reporter even bothered to ask if he really thinks eating hormone injected chicken causes homosexuality?

[Bacchus39]

25. I don't know, check it out for us n/t

s

[killbotfactory]

27. I tried

Nothing.

I saw this same story repeated unquestioningly five hundred times over, but no follow up. They got their quote bomb, nothing further needed.

[Bacchus39]

28. maybe Evo can issue a clarification then n/t

s

[subsuelo]

32. an official from the Morales' government clarified it

I don't remember the source. He said Morales in no way referred to homosexuality.

But who cares what was actually said or actually meant. That won't be enough for wingnuts to keep on parroting what they've read in their western "news" sources.

[naaman fletcher]

39. What else could have been meant?

It's really no big deal. The only reason it is a big deal is because of the crowd here who picks up heroes and then treats them like God's. So he screwed up, so what? As they say, it's not the crime, it's the coverup.

[subsuelo]

43. Mika summed it up well

"When one ingests steroids and hormones from various food sources over a period of time, one's hormonal balance changes (and that can affect many different cellular operations). For example, in extreme cases some young men grow breasts or the breast cancer rates spike, or small or inactive testicular growth, etc etc. Hormonal imbalances can even change genetic and/or physiological gender of a fetus during pregnancy. Hormones do affect hair growth."

Evo made no mention of sexuality at all. The assumption that he must have meant homosexuality, based on a stereotype of Latin American culture is simply fallacious. His government is even saying - No he didn't mean homosexuality. Why people insist that he must have meant it, and continue to base that on their favorite stereotype - is delusional.

[naaman fletcher]

45. It's obvious to everyone except..

a very small group of hard-red partisans.

[subsuelo]

47. Again, Morales made no mention of sexuality at all.

You and the capitalist news media have conjured up this idea that Morales was making fun of homosexuals, apparently based on this notion of "macho culture" and "faggot jokes". When the truth is, no mention of sexuality was made. I don't know why it's so difficult to accept that fact. Maybe admission of being wrong is difficult - who knows.

But now I wonder, what's with this insistence on lumping others into stereotypes and various groups, like "a group of hard-red partisans" (whatever *that* means, probably only yourself knows), or this Latino "macho-culture" that you insist Morales must be a part.

Can you possibly refrain from discussion based on stereotypes and making assumptions about groups of people, and instead talk to others as individuals? Just a thought!

[naaman fletcher]

48. I can read...

And there is no other possible interpretation of what he said. Perhaps you could just admit that Morales is not perfect, and then there is no problem.

[subsuelo]

53. LOL now you're just not making any sense

Why would you say "there is no other possible interpretation" when other interpretations have been spelled right out...? Maybe try being honest and simply say "I don't agree"?

:shrug:

[protocol rv]

54. This is getting really weird

So you guys are spending time arguing over Morales' comment about chicken meat? :eyes:

[subsuelo]

56. if you've been paying attention

it's also been about making generalizations about Morales based on a stereotype about Latino men.

It does get bizarre when others refuse to simply say "I don't agree" in favor of the obviously untrue comment that "no other interpretations exist"...

Anyway - Do you agree with the presumption that Morales was referring to homosexuality, based on the stereotype of a Latino "macho culture" where "faggot jokes" are routine?

[Bacchus39]

55. it was an ignorant comment as well as offensive

even if he didn't mean "it turns men gay", which he did mean, hormones are no longer used and it doesn't cause baldness. Just a stupid comment really.


Compare the long leash afforded to Morales at DU versus say the Venezuelan opposition who were arrested for "insulting" Hugo.
Its all about the politics of the speaker for many here at DU.

[subsuelo]

58. How about you, Bacchus?

Do you agree with the presumption that Morales was referring to homosexuality, based on some stereotype of a Latino "macho culture" where "faggot jokes" are routine?

[Bacchus39]

60. I certainly do believe Morales was referring to gays and not morphological changes

I also believe Morales is an idiot for saying those remarks. and I don't believe chicken causes baldness either. just ignorant comments.

yes, and having lived in latin america it is a a macho culture where "faggot" jokes are very routine.

the general macho culture may have led Morales to feel comfortable in saying those things, however the comments were his own and they were stupid.

[subsuelo]

61. well since he made no specific reference to sexuality, we all have to guess

I was just curious if your guess was based on this whole "macho culture" stereotype

[Bacchus39]

63. nope, I base it more on Evo's ignorance in general but saying deviations from being

men I certainly do believe is a reference to sexuality.

[killbotfactory]

23. Anywhere there is a strong socially conservative church presence there is a macho culture

It's not just a Latin problem.

[Meshuga]

26. No one is affirming it is just a Latin American problem

although it is a huge problem in Latin America that cannot be denied. Besides the conservative church there are also other very important factors like the presence of caudillismo where the strongest macho figure was deserving of leadership. Caudillismo is very much a part of Bolivia's history and other Latin American countries.

[AlphaCentauri]

36. Are you kidding?

there is a lot tolerance in the latin american socities for homosexuality

[naaman fletcher]

40. I guess you have never been there.

Can drivers whistle and yell their cell phone numbers out the window at women. I agree there is a lot of tolerance on the legal level where it really matters. But, anybody who have been to latin america is familiar with the "macho culture" where faggot jokes are routine. It is clear you have never been there and/or buy into the notion that discrimination was created by the US and capitalism.

[subsuelo]

42. Bolivia may well be the first example to point to

given the equality gays are afforded in the Bolivian constitution (written during Evo's presidency, for those that haven't been paying attention)

[AlphaCentauri]

50. Also Mexico city gay marriage laws

and what about the indigenous communities in Oaxaca, they see gays with much respect.

[ChangoLoa]

15. I thought he meant both

Or, to be more precise, that he associates both effects as part of the same logic of "loosing the manhood". And as you say, half of what he's trying to explain is justified and possibly true. Especially for producers who manipulate female hormones, I've heard. I didn't know about the consumers though.

[Meshuga]

16. Maybe you should go out and use your spin to defend Morales

in front of the Bolivian gay community since they are asking for clarification. Let a schmuck like George Bush say something like this and you guys would be all over him.

[Meshuga]

6. Watch the video to the very end

Evo Morales says, "El pollo que comemos está cargado de hormonas femeninas. Por eso, cuando los hombres comen esos pollos, tienen desviaciones en su ser como hombres."

[subsuelo]

2. oh bullshit - he made no mention of sexuality at all.

[ChangoLoa]

4. "This (industrial) chicken is filled with female hormones, that's why when men eat it they "have

a deviation" from being like men (laughing)"

It's a good translation considering his way to express it in Spanish was similarly confused.

[protocol rv]

8. "Dr" Evo, champion of poultry rights

I'm sure Bolivian chickens are really happy with Evo. Next time Chavez has a military parade, he'll probably have 2000 chickens dyed red parading around with signs saying "Thank you Evo".

[Mika]

12. Thank you for your contribution.

:dunce:

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[protocol rv]

57. You are welcome

:evilgrin:

[Bacchus39]

22. You know there really aren't very many bald American Indians

(you can replace an appropriate politically correct term if you like)

but what is the consensus here? pollo causes baldness and homosexuality? anyone been to a Peruvian pollo a la brasa??? anyone seen a bald Indian eating chicken??

[AlphaCentauri]

35. Is that organic chicken? n/t

[Bacchus39]

37. use of hormones in chicken, it seems Evo is behind the times

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100420/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/l...

Bolivian leader knocks industrial chicken, soda

TIQUIPAYA, Bolivia – Bolivian President Evo Morales said Tuesday that men should stay away from chicken if they want to maintain their hair and virility.

Morales told an environmental conference that chicken producers inject the birds with female hormones "and because of that, men who consume them have problems being men." He also suggested eating too much chicken for too long could make men go bald.

Morales' warning may be out of date: Chicken producers in Europe, the United States and many other countries say they abandoned the use of hormones in poultry several decades ago and many if not most Western nations ban them outright.

The president also blasted Coca-Cola, saying, "It is harmful. ... Imagine what it contains."

Morales blamed "the west," a reference to industrial countries such as the U.S., which he said "bring us more and more poison."

The secret ingredient in Coca-Cola is widely rumored to be something Morales himself once grew as leader of a coca-producers union — a version of the plant with the psychoactive substances removed.