The President decides. TSA groping will continue.

[woo me with science]

And now it comes from the top. Are you outraged yet?


Obama: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary
President says enhanced airport security measures necessary to guard against new terrorist techniques

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40289750/ns/travel

LISBON, Portugal — President Barack Obama on Saturday acknowledged some travelers' "frustrations" with having to go through full-body pat-downs and scans at airports, but he said the enhanced security measures are necessary to keep America safe.

In response to a question at a press conference in Lisbon, where he was attending a NATO summit , the president said that the Transportation Security Administration has been "under enormous pressure" to find better ways to screen for explosives and other dangerous items ever since the attempted 2009 Christmas Day bombing of a U.S. airliner over Detroit. In that case, a passenger with links to an al-Qaida extremist group tried to set off plastic explosives concealed in his underwear.

"I understand people’s frustrations, and what I’ve said to the TSA is that you have to constantly refine and measure whether what we’re doing is the only way to assure the American people’s safety. And you also have to think through are there other ways of doing it that are less intrusive," Obama said.

"But at this point, TSA in consultation with counterterrorism experts have indicated to me that the procedures that they have been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective against the kind of threat that we saw in the Christmas Day bombing."

Obama acknowledged that as president he does not have to go through pat-downs and other normal security procedures at airports, since he flies on Air Force One.....

[hlthe2b]

1. I'm betting if his daughters had to go through that, he'd think

quite differently. And, yes, he is either exceedingly misinformed re: any evidence basis for this, is naive' as hell about the implications and backlash, or he has some mis-beguided fear of being accused of being soft on terrorism by the RW if he modifies this.

Yes... I have supported Obama all along, but I am outraged.

[grahamhgreen]

34. I bet you're right. This will damage some youngsters pemanently.

[virgogal]

2. The Christmas Day bombing? Where?

[walldude]

14. The underwear bomber from last year

who caused all this. So not only is this invasive, unconstitutional, and hated by simply everyone, but it was caused by one of the genius terrorists. The ones who manage to sneak some crappy explosives in their undies but couldn't find a way to get a detonator in.. :eyes:

[notesdev]

30. They are using the underwear guy as an excuse?

Two HUGE problems with that.

#1 - Nothing the TSA has done or is doing would have detected the guy.

#2 - The bomber would not have even been let on the plane if not for the active and specific intervention of our own State Department!!!!

FUBO

[howaboutme]

92. +1 Exactly

The underwear bomber was a setup from the beginning to create alarm and a need to stick it to the US public again. Read the blog article from a attorney from Michigan who was aboard and witnessed the underwear bomber being escorted through security.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/06/oen-crotch-bomber-tied-to-mossad-msm-cover-stories-debunked/
This provides a blistering detailed synopsis of which we never see in the press.

To quote an excerpt:

Surely if US intelligence was aware that Mutallab was a terrorist threat they would have at least taken the precaution of making very sure that the flight onto which he was to be escorted was not a target of the “terror network”? Surely a thorough rub down, or a strip-search would not have been out of the question for such a threat to US national security?

Take your pick; either US intelligence is so incompetent that they did not first check if this known terrorist was carrying a bomb onto the plane, or they staged the entire operation themselves in order to keep the Islamic terrorism bandwagon rolling.

[sally cat]

138. "they staged the entire operation" So the phrase Security Theater is quite appropriate.

[rtassi]

180. +1

[CrispyQ]

57. We should be grateful he didn't stick it up his six.

Although that's probably coming next. x(

[virgogal]

58. Thanks. The way the OP read I thought there had been an actual bombing.

[Barack_America]

199. It's a good point. Equating the failures with successes is very dangerous. nt

[ProudDad]

212. bush/obama/napolitano CAUSED this

and Chertoff was the enabler -- in order to line the pockets of his clients; the manufacturers of backscatter scanners...

Vampire Corporate Capitalism, the "war on terra(tm)" and the "Permanent War Economy(tm)" CAUSED this...

This has nothing to do with the alleged "underwear bomber"...

[Individualist]

3. Be afraid, be very afraid. But above all, be submissive.

:mad:

[rtassi]

182. +1

[Angry Dragon]

4. Then all of congress has to go through the scans or pat downs

[lob1]

9. They should, but it doesn't happen. I read a piece here

on DU yesterday about how Boner still flies public airplanes, but he gets to skip the whole patting down stuff.

[Subdivisions]

5. '...and what I’ve said to the TSA is that you have to constantly refine

and measure whether what we’re doing is the only way to assure the American people’s safety."

Next he'll be saying we need single-payer universal healthcare in order to ensure the American people's safety.

:eyes:

[somone]

6. Catapulting the TERRA agenda for corporate profit

Sooo shocking.

[lunatica]

7. One man lights his underpants on fire and we all pay the price

One man burns his shoe and we all have to pay the price. This country does overkill like no other.

[Fumesucker]

11. One man dies of an easily treatable disease because he cannot afford the treatment and we all....

Err... Wait.. Never mind..

[walldude]

16. And always after the fact...

we are always 2 steps behind, but this is going to make it better... :eyes:

[LisaL]

17. Exactly. It's a reaction to something someone did or attempted to do.

As if terrorists can not possibly modify their plans.

[LisaL]

22. We are really lucky he didn't stick it up his butt.

[sally cat]

25. Oh my! Imagine what WE would have to go through if he had!

[LisaL]

27. I don't even want to think about it.

[Subdivisions]

31. Give it more time. n/t

[jonnyblitz]

39. there was a thread on ceramic anus bombs the other day!

I am too lazy to find it and provide a link though! :D

[MNBrewer]

178. Good name for a band

The Ceramic Anus Bombs

[LisaL]

8. He and his family should go through it first before he says

we all have to.

[HipChick]

10. How many forums are you going to post the same link in?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x528265

[grahamhgreen]

41. Keep posting - this is an outrage.

[woo me with science]

66. Thank you. nt

[Matariki]

78. Agreed. Time for some serious push back - not time to politely let ourselves be molested.

[readmoreoften]

45. How about every single damn forum in America?

That'd work for me.

[woo me with science]

67. Thank you. nt

[HipChick]

50. Ineffective..

We've become a nation of whiners on message boards,instead of protesting in the streets..

[woo me with science]

54. Yet here you are. nt

[rtassi]

183. +1

[grahamhgreen]

131. It is very effective - it got Obama elected

[secondwind]

12. We need to understand that there may be some INFORMATION that the President

and Homeland Security officials are privy to regarding "new terrorist techniques".

I for one, will try not to complain about the pat-down ...........

We are flying to Paris on Dec. 27th, and we have had to register with the State Department, and give information about our whereabouts, etc.

Just sayin'.

[EFerrari]

19. If Homeland Security has information that a terrorist will board a plane

with explosives strapped to their genitals, feeling up every American traveler up is not the solution. By the time they get to the airport, it's already too late.

Just sayin'.

There is no justification for this sh!t.

[LisaL]

24. Exactly.

If Homeland Security has information that a terrorist will board a plane they should stop this terrorist before he or she even gets to the airport.

[EFerrari]

28. This is the same kind of thinking that invaded Afghanistan to catch one man.

We know better than this.

[treestar]

By now terrorists know not to do that

Because they would get caught in the scan. At least, to get on the plane. True that this does not stop any suicide bomber from attacking in the airport, as happened in Rome and Athens years ago. Or from any bus or street corner or subway station. I've always found that thought more horrifying. And that attack terrorists made in a theater in Moscow.

Maybe we focus on planes because we do have some control over who gets on one.

[EFerrari]

43. Putting everyone who is traveling through this creates more problems than it solves.

And it really gives you a window into the cluelessness of the FBI and CIA that instead of doing their job to track down problems, instead the public is put through this wholesale.

[HipChick]

60. It's Security Theater at best....the I.R.A waged a successful campaign for over 30yrs..

they didn't need airports or planes..

[EFerrari]

65. Of course. n/t

[sufrommich]

86. Why is it already too late if they get to the airport? nt

[flyarm]

135. Bullshit!..from a now retired 33 yr flight crew of one of the 9/11 airlines! eom

[WinkyDink]

75. Wait a minute. You're taking a flight to Paris and had to REGISTER with the St. Dept?!

[superduperfarleft]

82. The right said the EXACT same thing about Bush.

"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens."

[somone]

87. State Dept registration is optional

I suspect very few people know about it or use it - especially travelers with a busy itinerary.

[flyarm]

136. ahhh just why do you HAVE TO REGISTER? No you don't!! that is crap.

I fly to Paris between 10-15 times a year, I just returned from Berlin and Prague. You don't HAVE TO REGISTER for anything with the State Dept. if you are American and Carry a US Passport. You just register with your airline.. your passport number. period.

[Marr]

Yeah-- same reason we all "had" to back Bush's invasion of Iraq.

His supporters said the same thing about that transparently jackass decision at the time.

[frylock]

217. bush was privy to INFORMATION as well

[Lucian]

13. Every member of congress should have to go through this.

Then we'll see if they change their tune...

[LisaL]

15. With their children.

Even if TSA is going to use modified protocols on those 12 and under, who decided it was o'key to do crotch searches on 13 years old?

[Lucian]

21. Yes.

And their children.

I'm willing to bet they wouldn't like it then...

[ixion]

18. And the 'war' on Freedom rolls on

unabated by the so-called 'change'.

[Individualist]

20. Yep...

"But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country." Hermann Goering

[AsahinaKimi]

23. Boycott it .. don't fly

If enough people chose not to fly, it will push the Airlines to make demands.

[walldude]

29. Believe me the Airlines, TSA, Congress, The Senate are

getting an earful. They know exactly how everyone feels. They just don't give a rats ass. too much money to be made selling scanners at 150 grand a pop. To many political insiders have their hands in that money.

[AsahinaKimi]

33. all of those people are driven by dollars..

The dollars stop coming in, they listen. Vote with your wallet.

[Jed28]

187. To many political insiders have their hands in that money.

Like Michael Chertoff?

"Mr. Chertoff should not be allowed to abuse the trust the public has placed in him as a former public servant to privately gain from the sale of full-body scanners under the pretense that the scanners would have detected this particular type of explosive," said Kate Hanni, founder of FlyersRights.org, which opposes the use of the scanners.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/full-body-scanner-lobby-michael-chertoff-rapiscan-2552674.html

[Poboy]

26. We are fighting them over there, so we can be groped over here.

We are torturing them over there, so we can be put on no-fly lists over here.
We are killing them over there, so we can be wiretapped over here.


Etc, etc.

[grahamhgreen]

36. +1

[readmoreoften]

46. +1

[rtassi]

184. +1

[katnapped]

32. Will Obama send us free cigarettes

For...after?

[treestar]

35. Isn't it one or the other?

That article says you have to go through both? The pat down is only if you don't want to go through the scan. Why not just go through the scan?

No President will have to go through the scan but they don't go through what we had before that. When out of office, they are back to where we are. That's irrelevant.

Another thing no one will state is that they would not blame the TSA if there were a bomb that killed a loved one.

Obama doesn't want anyone to get killed in a terrorist attack. Don't tell me half or more of DU wouldn't be blaming him if one happened while he's in the WH.

[LisaL]

37. It were the passengers who stopped the unerwear bomber.

He was let right onto the plane.

[readmoreoften]

51. Because the scan contains backscatter radiation.

And some people are cancer survivors or at risk for cancer. The machines are fine if properly calibrated, but I don't trust that all the machines are going to work properly and be properly serviced. They're fine now most likely. I won't walk through one in a few years, though.

[de novo]

155. I think that is part of the problem. It is a false sense of security, and

the Administration will be blamed even more so since controversial methods are being used. In effect, the WH has stepped up and reaffirmed the war on terror and ownership of of what happens.

I preferred the approach that realistically understands that if a terrorist wants to stage an attack, they will eventually find a way. Resources, efforts and perception are better invested in intelligence and good police work, in addition to sounded foreign policies. These screenings and pat-downs are a facade. We are being sold, by the WH and the TSA, more fear and more false sense of security.

They will inevitably be blamed for an attack. I think that the degree of blame, and perception of blame is far less important than actually using effective prevention to actually prevent an attack. I also would prefer that the threat of terrorist attacks are not given such an elevated state. These overreaching techniques have caused an incredible increase of terrorist-related thoughts and fear.

[Swede Atlanta]

171. Do you really believe that?

Do you really believe the W. and Laura go through the same security screening as other passengers? Or Clinton or Bushes Senior or Carter? I'll bet they are whisked through because they have Secret Service detail assigned to them.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

241. We are supposed to be at war with terrorism

When you are at war people die. They die so we can live free and not under tyranny.

I have relatives that fought and died to keep us free. My great Uncle Harry is buried in Flanders field.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[grahamhgreen]

38. This guy seems to hold none of my values.

[Initech]

40. They are not fucking necessary, you dipshits!!!

:argh:

[howaboutme]

42. Where is his political sense on this?

This is handing the right a true gift horse. The 4th Amendment should have been a populist Democratic message, but instead Obama and Bidens remarks on this will make Democrats the whipping boys. The public is outraged and he says bear down it's not that bad. He threw down a gauntlet and all Democrats will pay...mark my words. This is much worse than hiring Geithner the tax cheat.

Ashcroft, Bush and Cheney started all of this "keep us safe at any cost" bs security and now Republicans will benefit because Pres Obama doesn't have the political sense to put the ball back in their court.

I can not believe that a man that seemed so politically adept during the campaign to be so blind.

Why doesn't Obama change the argument from one of "be happy with it - we need it, even though I'm not personally exposed to it now, and probably never will" to one where we drastically change strategy. WE need to go from reactive defense that has no end and it continually deprives Americans of their rights and trillions in dollars that go to profiteers (chertoff), to one where we can come up with an political solution, policy modification and work to end the threat. It means solving the riddle "why do they hate us"?

[woo me with science]

49. You are right. Besides being just WRONG, this is political suicide.

The Republicans will run on the "Human Dignity" ticket.

[somone]

73. It's a classic Rovian/swiftboat play

where your strength is turned into a fatal weakness.

[woo me with science]

79. And Obama is participating? nt

[readmoreoften]

53. This is why Obama's attitude is dangerous. It makes Democrats look like fools

and when Democrats call themselves the left, it makes the left look like fools. All that has to happen is for some right-wing nutter to tap into populist outrage on this issue and everyone shifts to the right.

It's so clear that Obama's a policy wonk who was molded into a superstar by a marketing team that it's painful sometimes.

[ProSense]

81. "when Democrats call themselves the left, it makes the left look like fools. "

"It's so clear that Obama's a policy wonk who was molded into a superstar by a marketing team that it's painful sometimes."

Oh brother.


:rofl:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

44. he doesn't understand SHIT

platitudes...typical of those in power...

sP

[Baclava]

47. Nothing to see here peasants - get back in your huts

You're lucky to have gruel to eat, be happy.

[somone]

69. Yes, Sire:

[littlewolf]

48. have family traveling over thanksgiving and Christmas ...

I told them NOT to fly ... and why ...
they are taking the train ...

[woo me with science]

52. Good for them and you.

Thank you for standing up to this.

[ProSense]

55. Maybe he's trying to counter

Republicans.

[EFerrari]

61. If he needs to counter Republicans at the expense of America travelers

he's wrong.

[ProSense]

74. Oh please

There is nothing in that post, the OP or my comment that implies any such thing.

Some people love making grandiose statements as if they're the ultimate protectors of civil rights.

[EFerrari]

97. Who if not ordinary people are the ultimate protectors of civil rights, ProSense?

lol

[ProSense]

101. The teabaggers and Republicans

are people too. Sarah Palin and all her followers, Jan Brewer's supporters are people too.

[frylock]

223. brilliant strategy; out-republican the republicans..

we have achieved level 23.

[Retrograde]

56. Of all the issues to take a firm, uncompromising stand on

Let's hope he takes as strong a stance with letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

[LibDemAlways]

197. Pretty ironic isn't it? Everything else he capitulates on without a

fight. Destroying people's 4th amendment rights requires a firm stance.

He's setting himself up for a repuke victory next time around. They look for political advantage wherever they can find it, and they'll find it big time on this privacy issue.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueIris]

62. Ugly. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Well then I AIN'T FLYING

and there are BETTER methods, but they don't enrich anybody.

[Matariki]

80. I wonder if Obama will bail out the airlines on the public's dime.

I can't believe how sick this makes me. I've defended him and pointed out the good legislation he's accomplished since being in office.

But there's no defense for continuing torture, the patriot act, two illegal wars, unmanned drones, and tossing out the 4th amendment.

ENOUGH.

[Subdivisions]

84. Yes, he will. And all the good things that have come out of this administration

aren't nearly enough to make up for its failures.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Look on the bright side

this has actually united both right and left...

So perhaps it IS the wake the fuck up moment for the people. If this don't do it, nothing will.

On a serious note I was looking at Canada immigration this morning.

[Matariki]

103. I'd ask the Canadians on this board...

I'm not sure they're much better. I've certainly had miserable experiences crossing the Canadian border.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. My really bad experiences have been crossing back

:-)

[Matariki]

126. I seem to encounter every Canadian petty authoritarian on the way in.

And happily not on the way home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. We should trade!

:-)

[FLPanhandle]

64. This is a democracy, we, the people, decide what is necessary

It's not Obama's decision, it's our choice.

Put it up to a vote.

[sufrommich]

85. 81% of Americans support full body scans. A vote might not

turn out the way you expect.

[sally cat]

93. The current bruhaha makes that hard to believe.

[Caretha]

144. You should be ashamed

of yourself for posting that BS.

[sufrommich]

150. Really? Why?

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2010/11/most-americans-ok-with-full-body-scans/131415/1

[Laelth]

224. That's a terrible poll. The question asked is nonsense.

CBS asked: Should airports use full-body X-ray machines. 81% of those polled said yes.

Of course, airports already use full-body metal detectors. So, of course, most people said, "Yes. They should keep doing that." I seriously doubt that the people who answered this poll knew that TSA agents would be viewing them (and recording images of them) nude, basically, as they passed through. The question CBS asks doesn't reveal this fact.

The poll is bogus. People who know what's happening are outraged, and they should be. This is a serious and unjustified violation of our 4th Amendment rights.

50,000 people/year (roughly) die in car crashes. Are we banning cars? Terrorists have killed zero people with underwear bombs. Should we just sacrifice the 4th Amendment becasue we're afraid? Being afraid doesn't stop us from driving (most of us), nor should our fear be grounds for violating the Constitution.

Obama is on the wrong side of this issue, and I am ashamed that a Democratic President is complicit in the further erosion of our civil rights. Obama is making a serious mistake here.

-Laelth

[sufrommich]

227. If you read the poll question, you'll see that it asked specifically

about the "new" full body x-ray machines. Just because you choose to believe that people don't know the difference between an X-ray and a metal detector, does not make it so.

[Laelth]

230. I printed the exact question in my post.

I know what it says. My point is that I don't believe that most Americans know what it really means to be "full-body x-rayed," such that a TSA agent can see you nude, and record that image. The CBS poll question didn't explain that.

If it had, the results would have been different.

-Laelth

[sufrommich]

235. No, you didn't. Here is the exact question:

Some airports are now using “full-body” digital x-ray machines to electronically screen passengers in airport security lines. Do you think these new x-ray machines should or should not be used at airports?

You're whole argument seems to be that people are too stupid to answer this question, therefore it doesn't count.

[Caretha]

172. Oops

sent that to the wrong poster. I apologize.

[frylock]

220. aaaaaaand the home of the brave

[old mark]

68. He seems to really like the Patriot Act, too - Big Brother?...nt

[DrDan]

70. there is such a simple solution to this - at least in the case of male passengers

opposite sex aqents

[Kablooie]

162. There's also the DADT TSA agents to complicate things.

[Kablooie]

164. I will bet he has some reliable secret intelligence that is causing this.

It seems crazy and you might say there has to be another way, but if this is getting such negative publicity but Obama still OK's it he must have a reason.

[MNBrewer]

181. speak for yourself

[somone]

71. So GWB made you take off your shoes and belt, and Obama wants to feel your genitalia

because security comes from genitalia inspections?

[stray cat]

72. SO is Obama an evil fascist or just an enabler of molesters according to DU?

[Matariki]

76. That's a good question. I'm starting to wonder.

[Bluebear]

259. --

:spray:

[whatchamacallit]

77. He's a victim of his own belief

in bullshit frames.

[somone]

91. He's a supporter of the corporate machine

devoid of principles. The gropings are just a way to institutionalize Chertoff's porno scanners using taxpayer money.

[howaboutme]

95. You know what politicians say about the deficit? It applies here too.

Can we take anything off the table?

The most important attribute that every American could probably have to ensure continuation of our democracy is a HUMONGOUS dose of cynicism towards pundits, government, politicians and the media.

The establishment wonks have learned that they can shut down discussion of most anything using the word....conspiracist. Actually two words work.

[frylock]

221. he's a coward

[backwoodsbob]

83. im done with this

i'll vote ANY third party that is left of center

[City Lights]

88. Boner needs to be groped every time he boards a flight.

If Obama demands it for us, he ought to demand it for the Orange Speaker.

[kelly1mm]

142. Shouldn't he submitt to it himself and his family as well? / nt

[spanone]

89. it's only people who set off the metal detectors

been flying for days and have no pat downs or scans....you have to set off the detectors

[Individualist]

94. Pat downs will still be performed on a random basis

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/11/17/pat-downs-101/

[ohheckyeah]

96. Seriously?

"But at this point, TSA in consultation with counterterrorism experts have indicated to me that the procedures that they have been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective against the kind of threat that we saw in the Christmas Day bombing."

So, since last Christmas they designed and developed the x-ray scanners they are now using? Didn't we hear about these WAY before the Christmas Day bombing? I think so.

"The first full body security scanner was developed by Dr. Steven W Smith,<1><2> who developed the Secure 1000 whole body scanner in 1992. He subsequently sold the device and associated patents to Rapiscan Systems, who now manufacture and distribute the device.

Safety aspects of the Secure 1000 have been investigated by the FDA and NCRP since the early 1990s."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_body_scanner

[sarcasmo]

98. Chertoff called him over the weekend and said he would give him 10 percent from the xray machine

profits.

[soryang]

236. Chertoff had the whitehouse bring the manufacturer to India

...with him. Who does the president care about, the contractor who has direct access to the white house or the public?

[howaboutme]

99. Today the airports - tomorrow the schools, MALLS , etc.

If anyone believes that this eternal quest to spend more money on technology and weaponry and steal our liberties is ending with groping and scanners - think again. Until we politically resolve this the end is not in sight.

We are the frogs and the establishment and government are turning up the temperature gradually to 100C (boiling). http://www.mahalo.com/boiling-frog

The more this need for ever more security is expanded, the more entrenched will be those who profit, and profiteers do control the USA.

[sarcasmo]

100. Exactly, city buses and museums are their next steps I would think. Places where Chertoff and his

company could make the most money.

[FormerDittoHead]

159. Let's not forget the spot checks on bridges and the toll booths. Driving is not a right! n/t

[KoKo]

192. There will be no end to it. Once folks get used to this...then the next steps

are put in place. That's why so many of us are concerned.

[ProSense]

102. Media Matters:

Fox Nation falsely portrays Obama as clueless on TSA procedures

[woo me with science]

104. OUR PRESIDENT DECIDES: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary

And now it comes from the top. Are you outraged yet?


Obama: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary
President says enhanced airport security measures necessary to guard against new terrorist techniques

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40289750/ns/travel

LISBON, Portugal — President Barack Obama on Saturday acknowledged some travelers' "frustrations" with having to go through full-body pat-downs and scans at airports, but he said the enhanced security measures are necessary to keep America safe.

In response to a question at a press conference in Lisbon, where he was attending a NATO summit , the president said that the Transportation Security Administration has been "under enormous pressure" to find better ways to screen for explosives and other dangerous items ever since the attempted 2009 Christmas Day bombing of a U.S. airliner over Detroit. In that case, a passenger with links to an al-Qaida extremist group tried to set off plastic explosives concealed in his underwear.

"I understand people’s frustrations, and what I’ve said to the TSA is that you have to constantly refine and measure whether what we’re doing is the only way to assure the American people’s safety. And you also have to think through are there other ways of doing it that are less intrusive," Obama said.

"But at this point, TSA in consultation with counterterrorism experts have indicated to me that the procedures that they have been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective against the kind of threat that we saw in the Christmas Day bombing."

Obama acknowledged that as president he does not have to go through pat-downs and other normal security procedures at airports, since he flies on Air Force One.....

[treestar]

105. I've been on DU a lot of hours and still haven't worked up the outrage yet

I would just go through the scanner.

[readmoreoften]

160. Guess you're not a cancer survivor.

Or patient.

My spouse is.

[otohara]

206. Polio Survivor Here

Oh me oh my, I have something different about my body.
How on earth have I survived an entire life with an unsightly handicap?

I'm sorry, but I'm not feeling sorry for those who are whining about the pat-down, I've been groped by men and I've been patted down at the airport way before this, due to my brace. There is a difference!

It's a breast, that will be touched for a second - Call in the National Guard.

[frylock]

222. that's because you're a sheep..

bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[lumberjack_jeff]

106. They are neither necessary nor useful.

Anyone remember DB Cooper? In the 70's it seemed like every week there was another airliner hijacked to Cuba.

[firedupdem]

107. What's with the last sentence?

Obama acknowledged that as president he does not have to go through pat-downs and other normal security procedures at airports, since he flies on Air Force One.....

So he's supposed to ride commercial now along with the rest of us? :eyes:

[polichick]

108. It means, easy for him to say - it's not his wife and daughters. nt

[rtassi]

186. +1

[jefferson_dem]

114. Like ya!

Who does he think he is! President ... or something!?

[young but wise]

133. +1

[howaboutme]

132. HUGE fxcking mistake

I'm no longer sure what Obama understands or stands for. But I can tell this, he is on the wrong fucking track by standing up for TSA groping policies and it will hurt every Democrat.

Make no mistake that this TSA issue is a tidal wave coming down and neither party should be in front of it.....yet Obama put the political cross-hairs on Democrats.

Perhaps he just doesn't grasp the fact that Americans by ever increasing millions are fedup with what we perceive as a government on both sides gone wild, that doesn't work for us and instead for special interests such as Goldman Sachs. Americans despise those who are in power because of years of hypocrisy with their do as I say not as I do policies.

I'm becoming a believer that American politics is way above the pay grade of the average people. Decisions are made that ostensibly will benefit the few at the sacrifice of the many. If Nov 2 was depressing this statement about TSA is outrageous.

[ProSense]

109. Maybe he's trying to counter Republicans

GOP FLOATS TSA PRIVATIZATION....

In recent months, we've heard Republicans raise the specter of privatizing a wide variety of services. Social Security, Medicare, Veterans Administration hospitals, and even the Centers for Disease Control all became targets.

But as travelers grow more frustrated with heightened airport security, it appears Republicans are opening a new front on the privatization crusade.

A Republican lawmaker, who is faulting big government spending, is suggesting that airports dump the Transportation Security Administration altogether, and opt instead to privatize security.

And some airports, fed up with poor service in a climate where travelers are outraged about the prospect of full-body scanners, are listening.

The consideration comes after Florida Republican Rep. John Mica -- a longtime critic of the TSA -- wrote letters to the country's 100 busiest airports earlier this month asking them to switch to private security.

Mica is poised to become chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, so he'll be in a position to advance this issue.

There are a variety of angles to consider here. Note, for example, that private companies that stand to benefit from privatization also happen to be generous campaign contributors to Mica's re-election campaign.

Even more importantly, several domestic airports already use private screeners, but it's still the TSA that establishes mandatory security standards. If Mica or other Republicans want to have a conversation about whether those security measures are appropriate, that's fine. But whether those doing the screening are public employees or private contractors doesn't change the standards themselves. Selling this as some sort of cure-all for frustrated travelers is silly.

<...>

[Jakes Progress]

115. In what way

do his statements "counter republicans"? And why can't he just do the right thing sometimes without worrying about the republicans. They don't support him. They didn't vote for him. They are never going to support him. They are never going to vote for him. If he says "blue" they say "red". If he says "Okay, then Red" they say "purple". You can't placate them. You can't "win them over". Trying to is a waste of time and is leading to the ruination of the country.

[Nay]

191. And if security is privatized, the argument that the govt is doing unconstitutional

searches and seizures can be made to go away. Private companies like airlines, employers and security orgs have always been allowed to invade a person's privacy on the job, at private stores and malls, etc., unless they violate the civil rights that are federally protected -- namely, discrimination by race, sex, religion, etc.

So privatization has that benefit as well.

[LaurenG]

252. No - and you know it too. nt

[Phx_Dem]

110. I got patted down at the AZ Superior Court a few weeks ago. Big deal.

[grasswire]

111. obama owns it now -- PR nightmare

Rove is happy today.

[DemocraticPilgrim]

112. The basic story is if folks don't like it don't travel..

I don't see it as terror winning if that were true no-one would be able to fly.

[jefferson_dem]

113. Meh.

Sorry.

[JamesA1102]

116. I'm outraged that you're not outraged;-)

How outraguous is that!

[golfguru]

117. Israel has 100% safe record on Air Travel

from POV of terrorism in the air.

First it was the box cutters...now we can't even take scissors with us
Then it was the shoe bomber...now every one has to remove shoes.
Then it was the underwear bomber...now they grope us in our "junk".

Has any one noticed the terrorists always come up with a new method
after the previous is discovered? And we keep fighting yesterday's battles!

Israel does not ask passengers to remove shoes.
Israel does not ask every passengers to be subjected to X-ray radiation.
Israel does not grope every passenger in their genital area.

Yet Israel has 100% safe record in the middle of a sea of potential
terrorists who continuously cause mayhem on land.

Intelligent people learn from history.
Can somebody wake up and copy their methods of air safety?
It has proven track record AND IS MUCH CHEAPER TO OPERATE.

[sally cat]

119. But it's just not PC to learn from the evil Israelis, successful or not.

[StarsInHerHair]

122. good, it's about time the Progressive Left outrages the Idiot

Right, we should adopt methods that are proven to work, & drop known paths to failure already.

[jonnyblitz]

125. their far right government is pretty damn evil. nt

[sally cat]

129. Which is why we should never let them advise us about airline safety?

[high density]

118. Could not possibly disagree with Obama more on this issue

I am incredibly disappointed.

[Imajika]

120. Not outraged at all..

Still can't figure out what the big deal is.

Perhaps it is a waste of time, but all this furious anger is a bit mystifying to me.

[TheKentuckian]

121. Because you willfully wear a collar????

[Imajika]

123. Sorry, I don't get it...

Not sure what your talking about.

It's just a security screening. I agree it is probably a waste of time, but I just can't generate a bunch of outrage over it.

/shrug

[galileoreloaded]

179. it means your an obiedient puppy. Good boy! n/t

[Matariki]

127. Well, here's hoping you get to find out why. Up close and personal.

Some people just need first hand experience to care about anything.

[rainlillie]

200. I'm with you.

[rainlillie]

203. I'm with you.

[sarcasmo]

211. OBEY!

[jaxx]

130. The only thing so outrageous is the supposedly outraged.

How can anyone be outraged more than once a day?

There needs to be an outraged smilie.

[Initech]

134. Well it's official: We live in the Matrix.

[Raine]

137. Basically Obama is "covering his own ass"

(in case of an attack) while everyone else gets theirs groped. :argh:

[LibDemAlways]

201. He just thinks he's covering his own ass. What he's doing is

giving the repukes a huge issue to run on in 2012.

Watch the repukes' stance morph into "Of course we need to protect our country, but groping children and old ladies isn't the way to do it. There must be a better way."

(Note that I am not at all confident repukes would actually act on getting rid of these measures, but they know how to sound like they will.)

[jillan]

139. When people stop flying and the airlines are loosing lots of money, he hopefully will change his

mind.

Until then.... I'm not flying.

[Stinky The Clown]

140. Wutta swell guy.

[katnapped]

141. One thing to keep in mind

If this had blown up a few weeks earlier, "a shellacking" would have been mild for what would've happened to our side on election day.

(that said, still doesn't excuse it)

[47of74]

143. Maybe the discretionary use of Air Force One should be capped...

Say 10,000 miles a year. Maybe if the use of Air Force One becomes a privilege and not a right the President would come down off his high horse.

[Danger Mouse]

145. Question authority.

[Odin2005]

146. And I have made mine, I will work towards primarying him in 2012.

A Fascist is blue is still a Fascist.

[Eddie Haskell]

147. Maybe they don't want us to fly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x265506

[Radical Activist]

148. Oh good. I was worried I would miss out on the gropings before I had the chance to fly.

I want to see what all the excitement is about.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

149. Pat Downs are now a DEMOCRATIC policy, Goodby 2012.

After two years of pat downs...the GOP will paint this issue on every Progressive running.
This is just the worst decision I could imagine.

[Nay]

193. Agreed. Add this to the other outrages, and I see Obama losing

to just about any Republican, no matter how weird. I see a Huckabee/Palin ticket. Mr Nay and I are just about ready to put our house on the market. Obama has indeed made the WORST decision possible.

[MadHound]

151. Neither he nor his family will EVER have to go through TSA security,

Not just because he is president and will be an ex president, but also because his wealth, like all wealth, will protect them from such indignities.

But it's just fine for us commoners. Pthaaw!

[somone]

153. For them, life after Air Force One:

[derby378]

152. Obama is practically BEGGING to be primaried in 2012

He needs to wake up, and wake up pronto. The American people have had enough, and this is further damaging Democratic efforts to rebuild our image.

[Nay]

195. It's really too late to rebuild his image. There is no way this can

be countered effectively, along with all the other junk he's done.

[TBF]

243. Begging to be primaried? Right now it's just a question of how much the dems will lose by -

and how reactionary the conservative will be who takes over. He has really blown it.

[derby378]

248. I'm not falling for that

All throughout 2010, Democrats were pretty much sizing themselves up for a hard fall instead of getting out there and defeating the teabaggers like we were supposed to do. So I'm holding out some hope that we, as a party, can pull 2012 out of the crapper.

[JVS]

154. He's getting outmaneuvered by republicans on this.

[readmoreoften]

161. This and everything.

[flvegan]

156. The TSA gropings have become the Change we Could Believe In!!!!

I'm sort of hoping this is his way of throwing it back on the TSA. I'm doubtful, but I voted for the guy so I have to hold out some positive hope.

[krabigirl]

157. Wow..and he is a constitutional scholar? Seriously? haha.

[tavalon]

158. Obama needs to rethink this one

[Ted_White]

163. Not surprising coming from the man who supports Gitmo.

[Bluebear]

165. I see "ignored" is all over this thread defending the groping

If Bush implemented this there would be outrage.

[bettyellen]

194. difference is, the press would give Bush pass and commiserate over the terra terra scare

I have mixed feeling about this, the holidays always see a spike in chatter about plots and Obama is not one to ignore that kind of thing. there have been n NYC plenty of threats dealt with by the NYPD that never made the press at all. Most NYers have no idea.
Bush would take his chances, let Americans die because that would actually help him. If there are credible threats, I know there are other enhanced measures happening that we don;t know about. I'm suprised anyone would think there aren;t. Im not thrilled to go through it, but if I get pat down, I'lll opt to do it privtely. Maybe it;s because NYC has been such a target, I don;t know. I know a lot of other places got big security grants when they didn;t need them, and it causes them to think it;s all a joke.

[bliss_eternal]

260. lol.

:spray:

damned ignored. who let that guy in, anyway?

[Marr]

166. Don't worry. I'm sure this all part of another Brilliant Plan©.

I've disagreed with Obama on a lot of things, but I've always thought he was at least a clever politician. After reading his position on this issue, I'm forced to reevaluate that assumption.

I don't think he and his staff have any idea how damaging this could be. Honestly-- people I know who are *never* interested in politics have been initiating conversations on this subject, and they are *pissed*. Not casually intrigued, not befuddled, PISSED OFF.

In terms of electoral baggage, I really think this could make the bank bailouts pale in comparison. Backing this position isn't just politically tone deaf, it's fucking stupid.

[james0tucson]

189. Brilliant Plan

<i>In terms of electoral baggage, I really think this could make the bank bailouts pale in comparison. Backing this position isn't just politically tone deaf, it's fucking stupid.</i>


He's losing part of his base on this issue alone. But don't expect any opposition candidate to run on a civil liberties platform.

[sabrina 1]

167. Anyone who is not likely to be a victim of these abuses has no

right to tell others they should subject their families, especially their children, to them.

A good leader never asks those he is elected to represent, to do anything he himself would not or will not do.

When he is ready to subject his wife and daughters to what he is willing to subject other people's children to, then he will be worth listening to.

I am beginning to wonder if this president ever makes a decision himself, base on his sense of right and wrong. He continually passes the buck for his decisions to 'advisers'. On offshore drilling he claimed that his expert advisers told him that rigs were much safer now than when the ban was put in place. His advisers turned out to be wrong.

Now, although presumably he is hearing from the American people, again, he tries to get himself off the hook, by stating that his 'advisers' at the TSA assure him these abuses are necessary.

He has access to the opinions of the people and to other experts on security who disagree with his advisers, but rather than putting ALL of that information together and forming an opinion on his own, he decides to go along with the least credible of those whose opinions he has access to.

I would love a leader who came out and announced that having researched all available information, he has come to his own conclusions and just once, decide in favor of the people he was elected to represent. But that is just a dream.

[Sherman A1]

168. Sherman A1 decides he will continue to avoid flying

I have flown once for a family emergency since 9/11 and will continue to avoid commercial aviation.

I simply will not participate in security theater. My trips are by automobile or other forms of transport.

[Demeter]

169. Bite Me.

See if I vote for him again.

[sarcasmo]

210. Demeter, I agree third party for me next election. This makes me sick.

[Demeter]

255. That and Giving Bush a Medal Was The Last Straw

[quark219]

170. If he really wants to argue this line...

... then he should, as a show of solidarity with the American public, agree to have Sasha and Malia publicly groped at Dulles International Airport.

(OF COURSE I don't want that... I'm just making a point here.)

[CanonRay]

173. Another really disappointing decision

Very shortsighted. He's getting out of touch.

[AspenRose]

257. Sadly, I have to agree with you.

[NorthCarolina]

174. I bet if folks stopped flying in great enough numbers

the policy would be changed in a heart beat. Money, or lack thereof, talks. Griping about it falls on deaf ears.

[remember2000forever]

175. Wow! He was my last hope for sanity over TSA Big Brother

I am so.... disappointed in the president I voted for. Doesn't he realize these TSA tactics are galvanizing the American public...Dems and Republicans? What a political miss-step on his part!

[tpsbmam]

176. Oh hell, I passed outraged months ago. Now it's just plain revulsion. n/t

[MissDeeds]

232. +1000

Sadly, I am right there with you.

[elocs]

177. Another brilliant public relations coup by this Administration.

It just keeps getting better and better. Do people actually think before they speak anymore?

[Iwillnevergiveup]

185. The timing of these crazy procedures

should be a factor. The Thanksgiving weekend is the most heavily trafficed time of year, and I suspect that with so many more people travelling, there will also be an increase in hellish incidents that will be made public. Whatta choice - either be X-rayed or patted down???

Anyone here remember a time when you could walk up to an airline ticket counter a couple of hours before a flight and write a check for a ticket? I remember pretty decent choices offered meal-wise, too.

As for Barack, he seriously needs to bring John Edwards former campaign manager on board. I forget his name, but he's on MSNBC once in awhile. Very forthright, articulate guy. He should lose Gibbs and Axelrod - they are doing him no favors.

[saigon68]

188. He'd change his tune if his Daughters

Would have their Breasts and Vulvas assaulted

[truth2power]

190. Obama is an elitist. Call me when he shows up at the airport with his daughters. n/t

[RetroLounge]

196. And there is Nothing the Prez will do

that is not defended by the gaggle of Circle Ds here at DU.

This thread is exactly as one would expect.

Legit outrage at useless policy countered by blue links and circle Ds.

:puke:

RL

[ibegurpard]

198. indeed

[Barack_America]

202. Well then, sir, do enjoy the remainder of your term.

The economy is going to have to create an impossible number of jobs to overcome this blunder.

[Hawkowl]

204. One term Obama

We NEED to start thinking about another candidate for 2012. There is no way this corporate ass kissing, politically tone deaf, spineless wonder, is going to come anywhere near winning re-election. If we don't get a new guy, we are really running the risk of a president Palin or Gingrich or some other lunatic. Obama is weak and only gets WEAKER by every stinking day, by every stinking issue.

[soryang]

240. Great post!

He is absolutely clueless.

[HipChick]

205. Any chance to bash Obama..This is what he actually said..people having reading comprehension

Must be another DU anti-Obama day..or the media need to spin

Not much difference to what Hilary said..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=528848&mesg_id=528884

[otohara]

207. We Are A Nation of Whiners

and complainers - and haters.

[HipChick]

208. Ding! Ding! We have a winner..

[rainlillie]

226. You are so right!

[Vinca]

209. So what's to stop the bad guys from shoving explosives up their bums?

Bend over, traveler.

[Hamlette]

213. might be because 81% of Americans aprove of the new measures n/t

[LisaL]

214. They should wait a bit and then do this poll on people who

actually underwent one of these enhanced pat down. See how many approve it then.

[Hamlette]

216. I agree but because there have been some admittedly horrific episodes to date

is not necessarily reason to scrap it.

The alternative is profiling which is worse, IMHO.

[Laelth]

228. The poll to which you refer was badly done.

The question asked is nonsense. CBS asked: Should airports use full-body X-ray machines. 81% of those polled said yes.

Of course, airports already use full-body metal detectors. So, of course, most people said, "Yes. They should keep doing that." I seriously doubt that the people who answered this poll knew that TSA agents would be viewing them (and recording images of them) nude, basically, as they passed through. The question CBS asks doesn't reveal this fact.

The poll is bogus. People who know what's happening are outraged, and they should be. This is a serious and unjustified violation of our 4th Amendment rights.

50,000 people/year (roughly) die in car crashes. Are we banning cars? Terrorists have killed zero people with underwear bombs. Should we just sacrifice the 4th Amendment becasue we're afraid? Being afraid doesn't stop us from driving (most of us), nor should our fear be grounds for violating the Constitution.

Obama is on the wrong side of this issue, and I am ashamed that a Democratic President is complicit in the further erosion of our civil rights. Obama is making a serious mistake here.

-Laelth

[colsohlibgal]

215. Necessary?

Think again Mr. Obama. They do none of this in Israel and have had things in control.What they do do is question you in a polite manner from the time you buy the ticket.

[earcandle]

218. Bad move, Obama. What part of the american people's outrage do you not understand?

[otohara]

247. We Aren't The Only Nation Doing This

but it appears we are the only nation that is in full hysteria -

This is being done in many airports around the world now, because you know them terrorists, they fly in to America from other countries. Here's a thought, only make the Europeans/Canadians and Mexican's comply. That sounds fair to our allies don't you think?

I look forward to cleaner skies now that American's won't be flying due to these new rules.

[earcandle]

254. True dat! Thanks!

[asdjrocky]

219. I would expect nothing less from this President. nt

[rainlillie]

225. Could the solution be simple as having flights

for people who are opposed to pat-downs and having flights for those in favor of pat- downs. Let people sign something saying that they're flying at their own risk and are willingly boarding a plane where the other passengers haven't gone through a scanner or pat down. That way everyone will be happy.

[Fearless]

229. "They who can give up essential liberty...

to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

[MissDeeds]

231. And the beatings will continue

until morale improves.

:grr:

[Swamp Rat]

233. So, he is opting for one term?

THIS is going to drive away many many many voters.

[Rex]

244. They are trying to top their last minute 'fuck off hippies' speech

that lost them the last election cycle. I'm beginning to think DC insiders really, really hate liberals.

[MissDeeds]

234. While we are being scanned and groped

Are items still going into the plane's cargo hold unchecked?

[TheDebbieDee]

237. If you don't want to patted down, TAKE THE BUS OR TRAIN, dammit!

There is no law that says you have to fly! Flying is a choice and now if you want to have that choice you have to put up with a pat-down.

If you don't want to be patted down, find another method of transportation, for crap's sake!

[Bluebear]

238. For crap's sake, they are making women remove their prosthetic breasts. Give me a break,

Enough.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

242. What a fucking row boat to England?

And debbiedee, what makes you think they will stop at the airports?

Have some pride in yourself!

[TheDebbieDee]

245. For crap's sake! There's also nothing in the constitution

that says you have a right to travel at all. Everybody else should just stay home and shut up!

Or be willing to spend US tax dollars on research for perfecting a transportation device like they have in Star Trek or Stargate or something!

For CRAP'S sake!

(p.s. I personally would not want to get on a plane where these new-fangled explosive devices could be hidden in their private parts. I don't like pat-downs either but I'm willing to put up with it if it means being safe.)

[Swamp Rat]

249. Read: U.S. v. Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966) and Shapiro v. Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969)

The U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with your assertion.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

253. For fucks sake.

Stop being a frightened girl.

By the way, there's fuck all about me in your constitution. Notice the Union Jack?

PS Your a coward so crawl under the bed and let other people protect your rights, for fucks sake.

[LaurenG]

239. He is the making decisions about us and for us yet he doesn't have to go through any of it.

I think we're a lot like cattle...

[Grinchie]

246. It's pretty clear that the US is unwilling to subsidize the Airline Industry anymore

Thus, we see this ongoing effort to make flying as uncomfortable and undesirable as possible.

Just look at it this way. The only real reason we have cheap airfares is due to the half a century the US Government has subsidized the airlines and manufacturers of aircraft to support the immense fleets of Bombers, fighter jets and other infrastructure needed to fight a "Sustainable Air War" with potential enemies.

Perhaps there was some margin of profit when fuel prices were low while this expense was distributed among the citizens of the United States, but I doubt it is that high anymore.

So, we are now seeing the military ready to abandon manned aircraft and focus on remote control drones to fulfill their missions. It's cheaper, and there is much less accountability, so it's perfect for a "Mea Culpa" in case of an accident.

Unfortunately, the Airline industry has grown to the point where citizens actually come to depend upon it, as well as businesses and commerce, but there is no more money to subsidize the airline industry to support possible wartime production, since they no longer need heavy lift bombers anymore.

So here we have a well disguised "Security Threat". One size fits all, so totally ridiculous that the Citizens are pushing back, and Obama is condoning this ridiculous effort by claiming it is necessary, when the reality is that there is no security, no matter how much effort you put into it. If you don't believe me, just look at all the security patches for Microsft Windows 7.0 to get an idea.

This is just an effort to dismantle the Airline Industry and reduce the ability of the average person to travel.

Nobody effort thinks about the fact that without Airlines, the Terrorists would not have a way to even travel to their targets. It's not in their best interests to disable the Airlines, regardless of what our so called security experts would like us to believe.

It's a fairly tale, spread by a bankrupt Government that knows that the Money Printing is soon to be over.

[Canuckistanian]

250. Well, he's the decider

Wait, where have I heard that word before?

[Quantess]

251. Bad move. The new TSA security measures are wildly unpopular.

Even RWers are offended.

[AspenRose]

258. People on both sides are disgusted, as they should be.

Who would have thought this would unite the country?

[SamW]

256. TSA Touchy Feely

Reported on CNN this morning that one freq female flyer said TSA pat down actually slid her finger in between womans panties... "cop" a feel