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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:49 AM
Original message
A summary of what Catfood Commission members have proposed so far
What has been proposed so far

There are three preliminary drafts that have been issued
• Co-chairs of the Deficit Commission Simpson and Bowles are proposing major cuts in Social Security and Medicare
• Member Alice Rivlin (with Pete Domenici) is proposing less severe cuts, but recommending stealth privatization of Medicare
• Member Jan Schakowsky proposing controlling the deficit by cuts in areas other than Social Security and Medicare. There would be Medicare savings from mandating bulk purchasing of drugs and introducing a robust public option

What Simpson and Bowles Have Proposed for Social Security
• Raising the retirement age to 69
• Raising the age at which you can begin Social Security payments to age 64
• Those age 65 would see their benefits cut by 17% if their wages average $43,000 over their working lives, by 30% if their wages average $69,000 over their working lives, and by 36% if their wages average $107,000 over their working lives, according to the Social Security Chief Actuary. The proposed cuts would apply to retirees, disabled workers and their families, children who have lost parents, and widows and widowers.
• Adjusting COLA formula to cut benefits for current retirees. This will result in a 3.7% cut in benefits after 10 years in retirement beginning at age 65 and a 6.5% cut after 20 years.

Simpson and Bowles have also proposed CUTTING TAXES on the rich!]
• Their proposal cuts taxes from 35% to 23% for the highest taxes bracket
• The corporate tax rate, now 35 percent, would be reduced to 26%
• These massive tax cuts would not reduce the deficit, and would be paid for by slashing income for those in the lowest tax brackets

The Rivlin-Domenici sneak attack on Medicare
• They propose converting Medicare to a premium support program.
• “Premium support” converts Medicare from a defined benefit to a defined contribution plan.

Why is premium support and defined contribution bad?
• Premium support places a limit on the amount that the government contributes toward the Medicare beneficiaries' premiums, exposing individuals to the increasing costs of health care. It then uses the leverage of higher individual premiums to encourage “voluntary” purchase of less expensive private plans in the marketplace.
• Since private plans have much higher administrative costs, they can achieve lower premiums only by reducing benefits or increasing out-of-pocket costs for the beneficiaries. Instead of overpaying private plans as with the current Medicare Advantage program, premium support underpays the private plans but allows them to obtain the balance from the Medicare beneficiaries.
• It is really a plan to privatize Medicare that can have only disastrous consequences for Medicare beneficiaries

Some useful links

National organizations

Hands Off Our Medicare! http://www.handsoffourmedicare.org/handsoff//
Social Security Works http://socialsecurity-works.org/
Strengthen Social Security http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/

References

Statement to the Commission on Deficit Reduction
James K. Galbraith
Lloyd M. Bentsen, jr., Chair in Government/Business Relations, Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs, the University of Texas at Austin
June 30, 2010
http://www.newdeal20.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/deficitcommissionrv.pdf

2Co-Chairs’ Proposal, “Restoring Social Security Solvency,” p. 48, Nov. 10, 2010. Available at http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/CoChair_Draft.pdf.

5Social Security Administration, “Effect of Early or Delayed Retirement on Retirement Benefits,” 2010. Available at http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/ar_drc.html. Each one-year increase represents a cut of 6% to 7%.

Debt Commission Report Targets Social Security, Medicare, Sam Stein, Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10/debt-commission-report-social-security-medicare-_n_781606.html

Many deficit commission staffers paid by outside groups, Dan Eggen, Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/10/AR2010111007481.html

Sanders Says Social Security Not In Trouble, Samantha Fields, Vermont Public Radio, http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/89256/

Trumka on Social Security: Don't Raise Retirement Age, Kathy Kiely, National Journal, http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/trumka-on-social-security-don-t-raise-retirement-age-20101111

The deficit commission chairs' lies about Social Security, Michael Hiltzik, Los Angeles Times, http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2010/11/michael-hiltzik-the-deficit-commission-chairs-lies-about-social-security.html

Fiscal commission chairs' mark: Lower taxes for 2%, austerity for 98%, Joan McCarter, Daily Kos, http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/10/919417/-Fiscal-commission-chairs-mark:-Lower-taxes-for-2,-austerity-for-98

Cutting Social Security is the New TARP, Cenk Uyger, Huffington Post, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/cutting-social-security-i_b_782000.html

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/11/919738/-DFA-poll:-Cutting-Social-Security-highly-unpopular
85% of voters polled are opposed to cutting Social Security.
2010 Midterm Voters support changing the Social Security tax cap over cutting benefits by 55% to 4%
Republicans, by a margin of 2 to 1, support changing the Social Security tax cap over raising the retirement age.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. I really do hope this cartoon is predictive
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. -->
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You owe me a new monitor!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. see #1
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Brilliant! K & R nt
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. For every dollar taken from social programs,
prepare to spend two on prisons and law enforcement.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R. Eridani, you're a gem.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. kick
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. CBS did a rah rah piece on Simpson and Bowles
last night. They only told of their recommendations and implied their's was the only viable plan. Not one mention of how we got to the state we're in and was completely lacking in objectivity.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. 99% of the news on this topic is propaganda for cat food. utterly useless for anything else.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. NPR ran a piece interviewing Simpson & Bowles on Wed. night -
I felt like reaching through the speakers and strangling Simpson! What a slimy, unctuous fucker he is.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. They must have picked him
specifically because he is so villain-like. Actually I believe he is a genuine villain.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. k&r
Thank you.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Eridani, did you put this together yourself or someone else?
This is top notch. Thank you for posting this!

:applause:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I put it together from articles and discussion in my Social Security Works listserve
As you might have noticed, I'm a bit obsessed with the subject right now.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Eridani, thank you for the work and the information.
I wonder what the President will say when the Commission delivers a report. We'll know a lot more then.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I wonder why the President didn't slam it immediately like Pelosi and Schakowsky?
Pretty disheartening to say the least. I hope a shit storm ensues if he actually admits he thinks these policies are good.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. Recommend
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
A very fine job
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great list! I would also add NCPSSM (Nat'l Comm. Preserve SS & Medicare)
They have lots of policy papers on the subject and just released their analysis of these harmful proposals: http://www.ncpssm.org/news/archive/Analysis_of_Commission_Co_Chairs_Proposal/
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Great list! I would also add NCPSSM (Nat'l Comm. Preserve SS & Medicare)
They just released new analysis on these harmful Catfood proposals: http://www.ncpssm.org/news/archive/Analysis_of_Commission_Co_Chairs_Proposal/
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R. Chipping away at Social Security...soon there will be nothing left.
Which is exactly the end goal. :grr:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Outrageous!! Where is Obama saying NO to these things loudly??
"Raising the age at which you can begin Social Security payments to age 64
Those age 65 would see their benefits cut by 17% if their wages average $43,000 over their working lives, by 30% if their wages average $69,000 over their working lives, and by 36% if their wages average $107,000 over their working lives, according to the Social Security Chief Actuary. The proposed cuts would apply to retirees, disabled workers and their families, children who have lost parents, and widows and widowers.
• Adjusting COLA formula to cut benefits for current retirees. This will result in a 3.7% cut in benefits after 10 years in retirement beginning at age 65 and a 6.5% cut after 20 years."

Stunning that our Democrats are not yelling loudly about this.


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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. My guess is that this is what Obama wants. He created this commission.
Edited on Fri Nov-19-10 02:35 PM by Edweird
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you for an outstanding post, eridani.
KBR.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for this - also added to the thread in Activist HQ ...
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. CBO - Preliminary Analysis of Rivlin-Ryan Health Care Proposal
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/119xx/doc11966/11-17-Rivlin-Ryan_Preliminary_Analysis.pdf

"Congressman Ryan and his staff recently provided specifications for a proposal that would
substantially change federal payments under the Medicare and Medicaid programs. Although an
extensive analysis of that proposal is not feasible in the time available, CBO has conducted a
preliminary analysis of its major provisions—the results of which are summarized here.

Key Features of the Proposal
MEDICARE

People who turn 65 in 2021 or later years would not enroll in the current Medicare program
but instead would receive a voucher with which to purchase private health insurance..."


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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. k and r
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de novo Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
28. Recommend.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. You are a DU treasure
K&R
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. Your summary is garbage.
It's the worst type of obfuscation to declare something a summary and then totally ignore things and fail to address them when they don't fit your pre-defined ideological standards. I'm sick of this, we're better than this, we don't need to cherry pick data to paint a picture of what we want to say, doing so makes us no better than republicans. You also failed to post the link to the 24 page addendum document, found here: http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/Illustrative_List_11.10.2010.pdf
CoChair proposal is already linked in the OP. But these two files are, as far as I know, the only two things released for public consumption. In the second document they don't talk about addressing SS at all, they do however talk about other things, some of which are bad some of which are good. I'm going to duplicate the link to the cochair proposal here, because I'm going to be repeatedly citing it and it's good to have everyone on the same page:
http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/CoChair_Draft.pdf
I'll be jumping around a lot so it will help to have it open in a separate tab.

Page 44 (which you totally ignored):
Reduce Elderly Poverty
Add new protections for the most vulnerable:
*Add a new special minimum benefit to keep full-career minimum wage workers above the poverty threshold.
*Wage-index the minimum benefit to make sure it is effective both now and in the future.
*Provide a benefit boost to older retirees most at risk of outliving other retirement resources.

The way I read this is that the poorest elderly currently on SS would see their paychecks immediately increase to an amount that would most likely be tied to minimum wage which would go a long way to alleviate a lot of cases of elder poverty.

Page 46 (where they raise the SS income cap):
Broaden the Payroll Tax Base
Gradually increase the taxable maximum to capture 90 percent of wages by 2050
*Under current law, the taxable maximum is pegged to growth in average wages. In 2009, the taxable maximum captured almost 86 percent of earnings, but it will fall to 82.5 percent by the end of the decade.
*Phasing into a higher taxable maximum slowly will prevent large marginal changes and will prevent rapid buildup of the trust fund.

It speaks for itself, and it has been floated on DU a LOT, albeit in a more extreme total removal of the cap. I don't share their concern about needing to phase in, since any excess funds are generally absorbed into the budget by way of selling SS some federal notes like they currently do. This would reduce our foreign debt holdings to China and Japan, which IMO is a good thing.

All of page 50 is optional, but it's worth talking about for at least one reason, which I bolded:
Alternative Social Security Options
*Increase benefits for low-income widows
Reduces balance by 0.06% of payroll
*Cap spousal benefit at one-half of average worker’s benefit
Improves solvency by 0.08% of payroll
*Reinstate college benefits for child survivors
Reduces balance by 0.07% of payroll
*Tax cafeteria plans in same manner as 401(k) plans
Improves solvency by 0.22% of payroll
*Uncap the Disability Insurance (DI) portion of FICA taxes (1.8%)
Improves solvency by 0.34% of payroll
*Fully or partially tax employer-sponsored health insurance
Solvency impact dependent on design
*Convert delayed retirement credit into one-time bonus
No solvency impact
*Include automatic stabilizer with future benefit and/or revenue changes

Let's talk about some of these SPECIFIC allegations, one is the 'sneak attack on medicare', which I have to assume comes from a single line in slide 36, and it's taken totally out of context.

Long-Term Health Care Savings
Set global target for total federal health expenditures after 2020 (Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, exchange subsidies, employer health exclusion), and review costs every 2 years. Keep growth to GDP+1%.

If costs have grown faster than targets (on average of previous 5 years), require President to submit and Congress to consider reforms to lower spending, such as:
*Increase premiums (or further increase cost-sharing)
*Overhaul the fee-for-service system
*Develop a premium support system for Medicare
*Add a robust public option and/or all-payer system in the exchange
*Further expand authority of IPAB

So apparently by your very own criteria there is also a stealth plan to impose the ultimate evil known as the public option onto the general American public.

While on the subject of SS, lets talk about the retirement age. Nowhere in the actual document does it specifically say to raise the retirement age to 64. In fact it specifically advises to create a hardship exemption at age 62. Here's the entire text:
Index retirement age to increases in longevity
*This option is projected to increase the age by one month every two years after it reaches 67 under current law, meaning the normal retirement age would reach 68 in about 2050 and 69 in about 2075
*Hardship exemption for those unable to work beyond 62

Under current law the retirement age will already raise to 67, the plan doesn't change anything in that respect. In addition they used the term INDEX, which means that if there was a decrease in average life expectancy the retirement age would decrease accordingly.

And while I'm at it, I'll also yell at you for ignoring HALF of the tax reform statements. Option 2: Wyden-Gregg Style Reform, is found on page 26, whereas Option 1: The Zero Plan is found on page 24. You also didn't even address all of the zero plan, instead picking the most extreme possible variant of it. I encourage everyone to look at the different tax rates listed on page 24. The reason they dropped rates so low was to offset the total elimination of all deductibles, including the deductible for having children and the mortgage interest deduction. However they also gave the option to add the child deduction and the EITC back in (which would bump all rates by 1%). Personally, I agree, the zero plan is total garbage. However the Wyden-Gregg Style Reform plan is worth at least talking about. One thing to note is that the only tax rate which changes from current rates, is the corporate tax rate which they drop to 26% (which I don't agree with), all other tax rates are retained at current levels or similar (this unfortunately includes the Bush era tax cuts and upper rate of 35%). These are ultimately all simply suggestions, and subject to change.

Anyhow, lets talk about more about the Wyden-Gregg plan. First is this statement:
"Triple standard deduction to $30,000 ($15,000 for individuals)"

Which would instantly make the first 30k earned by couples tax free (15k for individuals), income past that point would likely be charged at a rate of 15% up to approximately 68k for couples (34k single).

Lots of talk lately about the mortgage interest deduction so lets talk about that:
"Limit mortgage deduction to exclude 2ndresidences, home equity loans, and mortgages over $500,000"

I still don't like this because I suspect it will backdoor increase the burden on renters, in addition it has no COLA adjustment for high property value areas like New York and San Francisco. The other issue is that I would prefer that all interest payments were tax deductible. But that's because I prefer a return to the tax policy of 1979 which also had a 70% upper income bracket (which if adjusted for bottom bracket would kick in at $1million).

Now for the bad (pg. 27):
Corporate tax reform
*Reduce corporate tax rate to 26%

Just because Republicans keep telling us our corp tax rate is too high doesn't make it so. The primary reason for our trade deficit is labor costs and foreign government subsidizing of competitive industries to undercut our own companies.

But it also says some good things:
*Permanently extend the research credit
*Eliminate and modify several business tax expenditures, including:
*Domestic production deduction
*LIFO method of accounting
*Energy tax preferences for the oil and gas industry
*Depreciation rules
*International tax reform including a territorial system

Killing the subsidies to the oil and gas industries is necessary and overdue. This is explained further in the other article I linked (also a direct source from the cochair proposal). I also like research so I like the research credit. How they would cut subsidies to oil and gas is not fully clear to me, but I suspect it's only a partial cut because of this entry from the other article (pg. 10):
23. Cut research funding for fossil fuels. This option would eliminate new funding to the Department of Energy’s applied research on fossil fuels. This funding was created at a time when the prices for these types of fuels were partially controlled and the development of technology was stunted. Today, the situation is quite different. In addition, much of this federal research duplicates what is being conducted in the private sector.
They say it would save 0.9Billion

They also want to cut earmarks, which they say would save 16 Billion.
22. Eliminate all earmarks

Now if you want to really get pissed off we can do it, and we can do it honestly.
From the $200 BILLION IN ILLUSTRATIVE SAVINGS report:
http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/Illustrative_List_11.10.2010.pdf
2. Freeze federal salaries, bonuses, and other compensation at non-defense agencies for three years.

Found on Page 1, yeah, really stupid thing to do during a recession, take away a wage increase that simply adjusts salaries to stay in line with inflation. Cutting consumer spending and further widening the income disparity in the country. They estimate it would save 15.1 Billion.

3. Cut the federal workforce by 10 percent (2-for-3 replacement rate).

Found on page 2, another stupid thing to do with an unemployment rate hitting 9.6% (U-3). They estimate it would save 13.2B

7. Establish Veterans Administration (VA) health co-pays.

On page 4. Screw you guys, you want to bone disabled vets for a measly 0.7B. Go to hell.

16. Eliminate the Office of Safe & Drug Free Schools.

On page 7, hey guys, instead of doing this and saving a whopping 1.8B (1.1B more than what you get from screwing disabled vets), you could just END THE WAR ON DRUGS, and save 20 Billion...

24. Eliminate funding to private sector for spaceflight developments.

Page 10, this is actually probably a good idea, just develop the spacecraft in house and it will likely be cheaper. Saves 1.2B

26. Reduce voluntary contributions to the United Nations.

Page 11, I'll let the commission speak for itself. "The United States is by far the largest donor to the United Nations in terms of assessed dues. However, the United States gives the United Nations more than $3.5 billion in “voluntary” funds each year.58
This option allows the United States to remain a member in good standing of the United Nations by contributing the full dues that will be assessed, but reduces voluntary payments by 10 percent, which will save $300 million per year." Saves 0.3B

30. Reduce funding to the Smithsonian and the National Park Service and allow the programs to offset the reduction through fees.

On page 12. They want to charge $25 for people to go to the Smithsonian when the current generation of Americans is probably the most vapid group I've seen in a VERY long time, all for the massive amount of ... 0.3B. Yeah, we can afford to keep that free to hopefully stop the current cultural slide towards only wanting to watch Glen Beck and listen to Limbaugh.

32. Cut funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Page 13, I wonder what side of the aisle put THIS into the proposal.

39 and above ALL relate to defense cuts, a lot of which I agree with like these:
42. Double Secretary Gates’ cuts to defense contracting.
43. Reduce procurement by 15 percent
44. End procurement of the V-22 Osprey.
everything between these two points is good too, I suggest looking at it.
51. Reduce military personnel stationed at overseas bases in Europe and Asia by one-third
57. Consolidate the Department of Defense’s retail activities (PX for all, down with the Nex)

There's plenty of other stuff and this is already a giant Text wall. Point being, stop taking shit out of context and inflating and spinning it! It's annoying!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. You've just described at great length a nice expensive balsamic vinaigrette--
--added to a poison ivy salad. Not one single item you cited compensates for the absolutely devastating attacks on Social Security and Medicare. FUCK THAT!! We aren't eating it, period. The proposals are intended to be considered as complete packages, and on that basis must be rejected entirely. Any useful proposals included can always be addressed by separate legislation.
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. What devastating attacks? They aren't there.
Under previous rules, passed by previous administrations, the retirement age limit is already set to increase to 67. In fact the only hit to Social security that is actually in the report is the age change, and they then lower the burden by adding a hardship exemption. In addition they used the term 'Index' to describe changes to the age for max payout from SS. This indicates that if life expectancy were to decrease the resultant age to collect full benefits would also decrease. The question then becomes one of how they would formulate that algorithm. The truth of the matter is that there is nearly no hard information being provided by the commission, and that it's a draft report. It's really hard to be so blatantly wrong about a 50 page power point presentation that requires maybe five minutes to read. But if any media groups were capable of it, the US media sure is! It hasn't even left committee, nor is it even up for a vote in committee. So I am forced to ask why we're all so upset about stuff that isn't even in the report, and that hasn't even come up for a vote to get to the house.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. No it's not. Yours is, though. As for "the worst type of obfuscation", it's a pure projection on yo
ur part. (And so are your other ridiculous attacks and accusations.)

Fail. Absolutely pathetic.

:thumbsdown:


Needless to say, huge kudos and much thanks to the OP; she is one of the people who "get it".
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Actually, his/her post is correct--it is just IRRELEVANT n/t
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. My post takes longer to read that the actual fiscal commission report
So I'm guessing you didn't bother to read EITHER. The destruction of humanity will be TL;DR.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
38. I am confident...
SS will dead by time I come of age. If I am lucky, I will die on the job. If I am not lucky, probably under a bridge.
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