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Re: Tucker Carlson. Impersonation is a crime in many jurisdictions.

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:27 PM
Original message
Re: Tucker Carlson. Impersonation is a crime in many jurisdictions.
Edited on Wed Nov-10-10 04:38 PM by JackRiddler
For obvious reasons, many jurisdictions make it a crime to disguise yourself as another person and do things that damage that person. What Carlson did is not simply a prank. It may be due to childish or stupid thinking, but that is not relevant to the determination of whether it is a crime.

Certainly Olbermann has a civil case, which I hope he will pursue, as he can afford it. But depending on the states involved, there may be a criminal case as well.

This is dirty politics involving crude, undeniable deceptions. It's the kind of thing done by the Nixon campaign in 1972 (by the likes of young Karl Rove), or to far more violent effect by the FBI COINTELPRO operation (as one example, they forged attack letters by leftist leaders to create deadly divisions within their political groups). More recently we have seen Breitbart et al. present crudely deceptive edited video in the ACORN, Sherrod Brown and other affairs.

What kind of political discourse can we look forward to if it becomes common practice to simply hoax the identities of your political opponents without providing any indication that this is not the work of another person or meant as satire or critique?

Right-wing politics in this country has degenerated into a total free-for-all of deception and dirty play. The rhetoric justifies any means, and most means short of violence are already being employed. (The handful of violent incidents so far are a harbinger of where the rhetoric is already pointing.)

I'm not sure this can be reversed, but the Carlson case, for being so crude and simple to understand, may provide an important opportunity to finally set any kind of example about what is allowable.

IMPERSONATION, entry from Law Encyclopedia:

http://www.answers.com/topic/impersonation

The crime of pretending to be another individual in order to deceive others and gain some advantage.

The crime of false impersonation is defined by federal statutes and by state statutes that differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In some states, pretending to be someone who does not actually exist can constitute false impersonation. For example, suppose Bill attempts to evade prosecution for a crime by giving the arresting officer a fictitious name and address. In Colorado, where " person who knowingly assumes a false or fictitious identity and, under that identity, does any other act intending unlawfully to gain a benefit for himself is guilty of criminal impersonation," Bill could be charged with a crime (Colo. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 18-5-113(1) ). In this situation, the benefit Bill hopes to realize is avoiding prosecution, so that element of the offense has been satisfied. To be charged, the defendant does not need to seek a monetary benefit from the impersonation.

In New York, giving only a fictitious name does not constitute false impersonation. Under New York law, criminal impersonation is committed when an individual "mpersonates another and does an act in such assumed character with intent to obtain a benefit or to injure or defraud another" (N.Y. Penal Law § 190.25 ). In other words, it is illegal to impersonate a real person, but not a fictitious one. Thus, if Carol forges Ann's name on checks made out to Ann so that Carol can cash the checks, Carol could be guilty of false impersonation — but only if Ann is a real person. Such laws are designed to protect innocent people from the losses they may incur owing to the wrongful acts of others and to restore any loss of dignity and reputation they may have suffered as a result of impersonation.

Most state laws also provide that the impersonation of a public official is a criminal act. In Texas, impersonating "a public servant with intent to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely on his pretended official acts" is a crime (Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 37.11 ). Depending on the jurisdiction, the public servant being impersonated does not always have to actually exist. For example, suppose Carl pulls over a driver, shows her a fake police badge, and reprimands her for speeding but tells her that he will not arrest her if she pays him $50. Carl's actions constitute the crime of false impersonation, in addition to any other crimes, including extortion, that may apply to the situation. Thousands of criminal reports are filed every year by individuals victimized in various ways by persons impersonating police officers.

Under federal law, pretending to be "an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States" in order to demand or obtain "any money, paper, document, or thing of value" can result in a fine as well as imprisonment for up to three years (18 U.S.C.A. § 912). Like state false impersonation statutes, the federal law also seeks to protect interests such as the dignity and prestige of individuals, especially those who hold federal office. Federal statutes also prohibit other types of impersonation, including pretending to be a U.S. citizen; pretending to be a U.S. officer or employee attempting to arrest or search a person or search a building; pretending to be a creditor of the United States or a foreign official; and pretending to be an agent or member of 4-H or of the Red Cross.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I would guess that Keith will bring these facts up loudly, and then forgive the poor bastard.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Why is he a poor bastard?
Too many people are willing to give him the misguided prank or satire defense. The fake e-mails were published as "100 percent real."
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. He'll just say it was satire. As an entertainer, this gets him off the hook.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not if it is published as the words of another person.
That's impersonation. In many jurisdictions, a criminal offense.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. He already said he never "thought it would be published" so he'll just claim
he was doing this for satire for his own show.

I'm with you, I definitely want him to be charged and held accountable here...I just think it will be pretty easy for him to get out of it with many of the bullshit clauses out there to protect entertainers from slandering others.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Name the jurisdiction and statute where "intent" is not an element

Just one
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tucker is a crime
against humanity.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. A little known fact about Izzybeans.
Edited on Wed Nov-10-10 04:52 PM by izzybeans
I am Tucker Carlson. I eat dog food on the weekends and I wear a diaper because I pee myself everytime I see John Stewart and/or Dustin Diamond (don't ask). I'd crap if I saw them together, literally, crap.

Oh and my mother still wipes my bum and ties my tie and well...you know about us momma boys...every man and woman I have ever dated looks like my mother. ...And another thing, David Vitter once patted me on the diaper. He likes it dirty. "Tuck Tuck made a poo poo mommy."

disclaimer: satire is free speech, but assuming an identity, contacting someone under that identity, and maintaining a dialogue as that identity, is theft. This is satire. No dog chow was consumed during the making of this satire, though a diaper was soiled, and a tie was tied. And damn you Screech for noticing.

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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. LOLOL
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Shitstain Isn't Worth It...
What are you gonna sue him for? Money? He'll go to daddy and get a boatload. But in the process it would cost KO lots in lawyers fees and give that weaseldick publicity. Hopefully Keith calls him out tonight, laughs at him and moves along. As the saying goes shoot up, never down.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. +1
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deterrence.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. yep
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. Send him to Rikers Island for a couple years.
It seems fair.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, no.
For this, more like a month or two. Well worth it in deterrent effect.
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iamtechus Donating Member (868 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. Don't get legal -- Get even!
Anyone can play this game:
Available domain names similar to tuckercarlson.com

Available Extensions


tuckercarlson.tel

tuckercarlson.eu

tuckercarlson.bz

tuckercarlson.co.uk

Go here to buy it instantly: https://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/tuckercarlson.com
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. "It may be due to childish or stupid thinking"

I notice you don't quote any statute in it's entirety.

Typically, impersonation statutes require an element of intent.

Just last week, a girl pretending to be Cinderella came to my door expecting me to give her candy.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Is your Cinderella a real person?
Did the impersonator take actions that could damage this Cinderella?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. The point is intent

...and you know that.

Aside from which, of the various irrelevant citations to impersonating a public official, the offense is not impersonating any particular public official.

Cinderella's brother was dressed as a cop!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. And why can't it be a jury deciding on intent?
Impersonation (use of the full name and first-person in an e-mail spoofing a statement) and at least the potential for damage (through behavior that could have got Olbermann fired or looking like a foolish dick in a position dependent on public appearance) are there. I'm sure you're aware that stupid has nothing necessarily to do with intent. (Unless Carlson wants to go for incompetence to stand trial? I can see that.) You can do something stupid with intent. What Carlson says his intent was is Carlson's alibi, and he's presumed innocent going into court but can come out guilty, no? I see intent to damage in this action. You want to play his defense attorney, go ahead.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sue him Keith
Make him pay and make my day.
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. They ain't gonna do shit to Carlson
Edited on Wed Nov-10-10 06:39 PM by John Kerry VonErich
First, it is a misdemeanor not a felony for criminal side. Second, the only response to a lawsuit from Carlson is " Who do I make the check out to?"
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Have you ever heard of "The Yes Men"?

Where were you when they got speaking invitations as WTO officials, or put out press releases as Dow Chemical or Chevron?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Brave fellows.
They're definitely on the edge, as I'm sure they're aware. I think they took an educated guess in the Dow case that this company has its well-considered reasons not to go to court. In the NYT case, that no one was going to see it as anything other than satire after a confused moment or two. Whereas the fake Olbermann e-mail wasn't fanciful, nor funny, but written in a plausible first-person voice making up statements that could be taken as Olbermann's.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I love 'em

But what is "funny" can be a matter of perspective.

www.dowethics.com is still operating, and still quite a hoot.

I just don't consider myself an adequate judge of the souls of others to know, without additional facts and testimony, what fUcker Carlson's intent may have been.

I got into a similar wringer once, having registered an email address very close to that of the CEO of a private administration authority, I sent what I believed to have been a very obvious "joke email" announcing a drastic policy change. One of the recipients, an executive with an impacted company, and in an early morning haze reading his Blackberry, sprang into action mode, speeding to the office unshaven and assembling the board and legal department for an emergency strategy meeting in damage control mode. It's all water under the bridge now, and we laugh about it, but at the time it was distinctly unfunny to him and his company.

I'm sure a good many of the attendees at the policy meeting, where Yes Men posting as WTO representatives presented a straight-faced case for bringing back slavery, didn't appreciate being made fools (not that they needed much help in that department).

I guess that kind of thing flies better when it is among friends in the first place, instead of among direct commercial competitors, but the subjective state of Mr. Carlson's mind does matter in relation to potential criminal culpability.
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