If everyone hates Wal-Mart, why love Amazon? Neither of them are all that...

[TreasonousBastard]

great to their employees, and both of them have had a hand in putting large numbers of smaller competitors out of business.

But only Wal-Mart gets yelled and sneered at while there's a lot of bragging about the great deals they got on everything from books to blenders, and now shoes, at Amazon.

[Rhiannon12866]

1. I use Barnes & Noble

Because I was told it's a blue company, while Amazon is not...

[LAGC]

2. B&N's e-reader for eBooks on PC is much better than Amazon's Kindle for PC.

Because the Kindle for PC software can't search for key-words yet, which is a big negative.

[Rhiannon12866]

5. Thanks for the heads-up!

:hi:

[Dappleganger]

9. Nookstudy is even better.

It's also free from B&N and is ideal for studying more than one book at a time. Personally, I prefer its layout over the Nook reader on the larger screen (Mac or PC). You can also use it to read any .epub or .pdf file.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nookstudy/index.as

[dixiegrrrrl]

114. Broken link.

Drats.

[ellenfl]

20. i have been trying to decide - kindle or nook?

i would prefer to support b&n but have heard that kindle is easier to read and download. however, i have heard that kindles have to be returned to amazon to get a replacement battery and you do not get your kindle back, but you get a refurbished one. you can replace the battery in the nook.

any other pros you can tell me about?

(op, sorry for the hijack)

ellen fl

[Statistical]

23. The kindle is lighter, thinner, and battery life is much longer.

Kindle is the only device I have found to be as comfortable as a traditional book for one hand reading.

While Amazon doesn't support it many companies sell replacement batteries for Kindle. I had a first gen Kindle. had it almost 3 years and battery was still very good (2+ weeks between charges) when I gave it away and got a Kindle 3.

Likely in 3+ years when you need to replace the battery either
a) 3rd party batteries will be available
b) replacement kindle will be <$50.

[Dappleganger]

24. It depends, do you think you'll use library ebooks?

If so you'll want to get a reader which supports the .epub format such as the Nook and Sony readers.

Both readers are really good, but what was important in my decision was that the Nook had a user-replaceable battery, expandable memory (with a micro-sd card) and uses .epub format. You can find some great forums which go into better explanations out there--one of my favorites is mobileread.com.

[Nye Bevan]

28. "I found the Nook slower, more cumbersome to use and less polished than the Kindle"

The Nook may be wonderful one day, but, as of today, it's no match for the Kindle, despite advantages such as lending, because it's more annoying to use.

For instance, the Nook constantly delayed taking me to books while the main screen displayed a message that said "formatting." Its standard practice is to open books you select not at the actual start of the book, but at a description of the book. Turning pages inside books was slower than on the Kindle. Looking up a word in the built-in dictionary, a quick process on the Kindle, was far harder on the Nook. Even swiping the touch screen to turn pages would suddenly stop working for periods of time.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704240504574586142630417418.html

[TreasonousBastard]

51. None of which is true for my Nook. I suspect the reviewer had an earlier...

buggier version.

[Dappleganger]

92. I've not had any problems with my Nook being slow at all.

[TreasonousBastard]

50. I have a Nook and am happy with it. It fits my hand perfectly and works...

as advertised.

I've downloaded over a hundred books into it (Maybe I should start reading them?) many from free sites, and B&N's prices for stuff I've bought has been from free or under a dollar to around 10 bucks. B&N does seem to have a much larger number of titles.

[The Straight Story]

54. One thing I HATE about my nook

No folders. I had 1200 books on it and created folders on the nook to put them in, but when you go to see the books they do not appear in a folder and you have to page through to find the book (112 pages of books).

I like the chess game on it, the browser, etc, but I plan on getting a Kindle soon.

[pipi_k]

67. Lots of former Nook users

have left reviews on the Amazon site saying they weren't happy with the Nook for various reasons, and were satisfied with the Kindle.


I just got my K3 a little over a week ago...downloaded nearly 30 books and one game within a couple of days. I'm a book hoarder, so being able to potentially hoard thousands of them in one relatively small area makes me practically giddy with excitement. :7

[Statistical]

70. Yeah competition is good but B&N needs to step it up.

The kindle is just about perfect.

It is very simple (both in use and in design). The dimensions are about as small (light & thin) as you can get w/ 6" screen. The battery lasts "forever", I mean 20-30 days between charges. I almost forget it needs power. The OS is very stable.

It lacks color, or touchscreen but these help to bring down the price and results in a very simple device. More focus on usability than on flash. Touchscreens tend to be reflective which is why amazon has resisted a touchscreen kindle. Eventually I think the cost, transparency, and reflectivity issues will be resolved and we will see a "Kindle Touch".

It isn't that the nook is bad it is just that Amazon set the bar high w/ first gen kindle and each generation of the Kindle moved the bar higher while at same time bringing the cost down.

Honestly I forget that I am not reading a physical book or that I haven't always had a Kindle. I read maybe 2-3 books a year. I have read at least 200+ books on the Kindle. Some free from project G, most bought at a significant discount. I refuse to buy Kindle books which are the same price (or more) as physical book. I refuse to buy physical books when Kindle edition isn't available.

If an author (I don't care how good) wants my $ then they will provide a Kindle edition and it most it will be buck or two cheaper than paperback.

[pipi_k]

76. Yeah, I'm real happy with mine too

Although I did have a minor issue when I first got it when the battery went low after only a few days even though I had the Wi-Fi off.

Found out that the battery needs to be charged a couple of times before it reaches its full potential. So I charged it a second time and I've been reading every day and the power level hasn't even budged yet.

Downloading a book...whoa. If I blink I miss it. It's incredibly fast.

I like to read in bed every night before going to sleep, and dealing with a real book was so hard and the book would often get torn or the binding would crack because of the way I had to hold it.

Now it's just so simple, and those little page turning buttons are handy. One night I fell asleep while reading and discovered...much to my delight...that the Kindle goes into "sleep" mode after a certain time of no activity. Battery saved!

As for the sensory part of it...I love the smell and feel of real books...I bought a leather cover that has a soft fuzzy inside. So I can feel the fuzzy and smell the leather and it's not a sterile reading experience.


And the free books part...yep...I have a pretty good collection of Classics I got for free.

There are a couple of authors whose books are, to me, classics...meaning that I have read and re-read them many times over the years, and have had to buy replacement books as the old ones got ruined. One author (who is now dead) doesn't have any of his books on Kindle yet, but whenever I run into that situation on Amazon I click on the link that lets the publishers know they should consider a Kindle edition.

[Statistical]

80. Yeah hopefully the incomplete author support is just an early adopter issue.

I don't see why a publisher wouldn't put every book on kindle I mean it has essentially no upfront (or recurring) costs.

Put book up there and it makes money (Publisher gets 70% Amazon gets 30%). In the future I could see authors dropping publishers and simply selling the book themselves.

[Dappleganger]

95. And there are many, many happy Nook users

who never venture on to the Amazon forum and discuss their ebook. You'll find them at mobileread. com and other forums where people who own all kinds of ereaders congregate.

The problem with Kindle is that they chose an older format and threw all of their development into .mobi, while every other reader on the market today is using .epub, etc. Kindle locked their users out of everything but the Amazon store. You can't put a borrowed ibook from the OverDrive system on a Kindle unless you figure out how to break its DRM.

[Dappleganger]

93. Please contact B&N about this to give your feedback.

I have done this both at the store and corporate levels. They are working on new software updates right now.

Meanwhile, if you are a little daring you may wish to softroot your Nook and organize it from there. But if you're not into folders then tags are better, such as what Calibre uses (and that is my own preference).

[pipi_k]

66. So I was looking at reviews and comments and found this

on the question of how Amazon handles the Kindle 3 battery replacement...




Posted on Aug. 30, 2010 6:25 AM PDT

sabst79 says:

Great review. As far as battery goes, what Amazon doesn't tell you is that you can just google the replacement battery and replace it yourself instead of sending it back to Amazon. If the Kindle is out of warranty, it will cost you less than sending it back to amazon. though getting a refurbished Kindle for the price of a replacement battery is not a bad deal in my book.




Another person said that replacing the battery would probably void the warranty, but suspects that the original warranty would probably have long expired anyway before the K3 would need another battery.

[Statistical]

71. Exactly.

I had a 1st gen Kindle. Used it almost 3 years. To me the battery seemed fine even at the end. It still lasted roughly 2 weeks between charges. I gave the Kindle away and got a gen 3. Likely in 3+ years if the battery needs to be replaced I could either get a replacement battery or likely a 5th gen Kindle will be even better and $50.

Nice thing about Kindle is the books are tied to your account not your device. Get new Kindle device, link it to your account, hit "sync" on the kindle and all the books download almost instantly.

[cags]

74. I absolutely love my Nook...

The battery is fine, the touchscreen is awesome, you can browse books by the cover art, and you can walk into a B&N and purchase accessories and covers whenever you want.

I have never had a single problem with it. Except for the fact that I purchased it before they dropped the price...lol.

[Lucian]

81. The Kindle is actually a lot better than the nook.

The nook has this colorful, bottom scroller that shows book covers, and it's on a separate little screen, and it doesn't make sense. The Kindle is more polished, the battery life lasts one month on a full charge, and the form factor makes sense.

[ellenfl]

82. one more question . . .

once you have downloaded your books to your reader and read them, can you then move them to your computer/external hard drive for storage?

tia.

ellen fl

[Lucian]

83. Amazon actually saves a copy of whatever you downloaded...

and you can download the copy onto your computer from the Amazon website. That way, if you accidentally erase a book, or you get a new Kindle, they have everything backed up.

[Statistical]

94. You "can" however it really isn't necessary.

Your books are linked to your amazon account. Thus if you kindle was ever lost, stolen, damaged, or simply replaced w/ newer model all your books would download to your new kindle device.

You can also view your books on up to 6 devices at one time. For for example your family* could have 2 kindle, kindle app for iphone, and kindle application for PC and you would be able to see all your books from any device at any time.

One little caveat if you want all the kindle devices under a single persons name to share titles. So for example me & my wife each have a kindle but both kindle are under my amazon account. That way either of us can see an books bought by either of us. If my wife had a seperate account her kindle(s) could only see her books and my kindle(s) could only see my books.

The kindle will also sync up your current location, bookmarks, and any notes in any kindle (you can turn this off if you want). So if you read a book and get to a certain point on your kindle and then open the same book on "kindle app for iphone" it would open to the spot you stopped reading at.

But the answer is yes if you want you can backup your kindle books to a PC. If you connect it to a PC the Kindle shows up as an external drive (like flash drive or thumb drive) and you can see any books stored on there.

[HuckleB]

3. I go with Powell's.

[Rhiannon12866]

6. Thanks.

I'll look it up... :)

[Brickbat]

33. I do too, because they're union.

[quakerboy]

45. Really?

I had no idea. One more reason to love it. As if a city block full of books wasnt enough already.

[Brickbat]

61. ILWU Local 5.

http://www.ilwulocal5.com/shop-union

[ellenfl]

19. actually, i recently looked up donation stats for amazon vs

b&n. i am a devoted b&n customer but was surprised to find that amazon and b&n are pretty close in their donations, mostly to dems.

ellen fl

[Rhiannon12866]

49. Thanks for the information.

I figured that they couldn't be all that bad when Al Franken used them... :)

[David Zephyr]

89. Good for you. Me, too.

I try to patronize small books store and left/labor on-line bookstores. But if I can't find it, then I shop on-line at B&N. :thumbsup:

[Fumesucker]

4. There are a lot of small companies and indeed individuals selling through Amazon

Amazon's business model at least provides for decreased energy use.

If you want crap you can buy crap at Walmart, at least you have the choice of buying something decent on Amazon, not that they don't sell crap too.

Which doesn't negate your point about how they treat their employees.

[tammywammy]

8. I've sold my textbooks on Amazon

I found it to be a super easy process and got way more than I would have at the university bookstore buy-back.

[BuelahWitch]

34. Yes, thank heaven for that!

I had to get several books this semester. If it hadn't have been for Amazon and their used books I would have been five times as broke as I am!

[Recursion]

7. A greater percentage of WalMart associates have health insurance...

...than Starbucks baristas. Yet I still drink their coffee.

Mostly I avoid WalMart because I want less cheap plastic crap around my house.

[McCamy Taylor]

10. E-Books are good for the environment.

[stuntcat]

11. I use Amazon less now

because of the company. But sometimes I still get something there. I wish we had a great alternative to them. A good place to order books and dvd's is from Alibris, I think, I can skip amazon for that stuff :)

[stuntcat]

12. grr, double post

.

[matt819]

13. Prove it

Walmart is contemptible because it has been well documented over a generation that the development of its stores have destroyed small towns, put small companies out of business, and have done much to support outsourcing. Sure, they employ hundreds of thousands, and they do provide low cost goods. But at what price?

You assert that Amazon is just as bad, and that Amazon is not friendly to its employees. Prove it. Where is the Amazon equivalent to Walmart Watch? As another post notes, Amazon has probably thousands of affiliates who sell via Amazon, companies that might not otherwise have such widespread access to markets worldwide. As for how it treats its employees, again, I've not seen that. There was a story over last Christmas on HuffPo about workers in an Amazon warehouse, but while the jobs seemed a tad boring, they paid pretty well, and working conditions weren't half bad, certainly no worse than Walmart.

So, if you're going to make these assertions, you're going to have to substantiate them.

[Gaedel]

64. Samll town "Mom and Pop" stores

"Walmart is contemptible because it has been well documented over a generation that the development of its stores have destroyed small towns, put small companies out of business, and have done much to support outsourcing. Sure, they employ hundreds of thousands, and they do provide low cost goods. But at what price?"

Everybody pisses and moans about Walmart putting "Mom and Pop" stores out of business in small towns. When it comes to worker exploitation, Walmart could learn a few lessons from Mom and Pop. They exploited teenagers, paid less than minimum wage, paid under the table, worked their employees beyond allowable hours, had zero benefits, and often stiffed you on your paycheck (Uhh, we didn't make much money this week).

I have lived in some small towns and a lot of businesses there deserved to be put out of business by chain department stores like Ames, Zayre, K-Mart, Value City, Walmart, etc).

[pipi_k]

68. Just wanted to mention...

I live in a very small rural town, and there are some "mom and pop" businesses nearby.

Mr P and I do patronize these businesses whenever possible. In fact, we've been Sunday morning "regulars" at a little mom and pop restaurant/gas station in town for 6 or 7 years.

Hardware store, feed and grain store, market, country store that sells all sorts of items.


But sometimes these little stores just don't have what we're looking for and that's when we have to make the 20+ mile (each way) trip into the Big City to find what we need. Often, it's cheaper in terms of time and gas to just order the stuff online and let UPS or USPS deliver it.

[madmom]

88. Not to mention the small mom & pop stores go

to walmart to buy their stuff mark it up and sell it in their store. I've seen this happen on several occasions.

Then what about netflix, blockbuster etc.? When was the last time you've seen a small mom & pop movie rental?

[stray cat]

14. No one should buy a discounted book - pay full price at local book stores

if you really care about supporting local businesses - if you care about expense go to amazon or barnes and noble

[csziggy]

72. Other than used book stores, the local bookstores closed long before Amazon

Here, there were only two major local book stores, not counting the university book stores. One was owned by a right wing asshole who chased off all student and young people's business well before Reagan got elected. The other was terrific and only closed when the owners retired. Since then, the only new book stores have been new age, crystal woo-woo type stores with so much incense burning I can't even walk past their doors.

I do sometimes buy from the used book stores, but one specializes in literature and very serious subjects with a few shelves of mystery and science fiction; the other is 90% romance novels. Neither really carry much that I want to read.

Books A Million, Barnes & Noble and Borders opened into a vacuum for book stores here so I do not feel bad about buying from them. What is funny is that though I have bought a few things from Amazon, I have never bought a book from them. My most recent purchase was a pair of speakers. They had the best price and free shipping and that combo saved me $40 over the next best price.

[PeaceNikki]

15. Where do you get the idea that Amazon doesn't treat its people well?

[dkf]

16. I like amazon because of the ratings and comments.

And sometimes I can't find the product locally.

[TheCowsCameHome]

17. Plus free shipping and no tax.

That adds up.

[dkf]

18. Yup. They are one of the few who honor free shipping to Hawaii.

The rest promise free shipping til you put all your data in then. Then they charge crazy shipping fees.

[pipi_k]

69. Yup...I do extensive research on what I want to buy..

and the user comments/reviews are very helpful.

With free "Super Saver" shipping on some items, the cost is often way below what I could have bought it for, even at Walmart or some other online store.

[Terra Alta]

21. I don't work for Amazon

so I have no idea how they treat their employees. If they are horrible to their employees, they need to be called out just like Wal-mart is.

As for Wal-mart, I've worked for them for going on six years now and I've seen things go from bad to worse. Never having enough coverage, firing people without warning, and trying to get rid of all their full-time employees are just a few dirty things Wal-mart is doing to their employees.. I could literally write a book.

[gmoney]

22. Amazon doesn't censor, doesn't manipulate manufacturers

Many recording artists are censoring their lyrics and packaging to be "WalMart" safe, or at least releasing the WalMart version of stuff. I wonder if this also extends to movies and books.

My biggest problem with WalMart is that they've manipulated manufacturers into offshoring manufacturing jobs to China (Levis, Rubbermaid, Master Lock, etc) and lower quality standards to meet price points. This is also evidenced by the numerous product recalls.

But yes, when part of the new employee orientation is how to apply for food stamps and Section 8 housing, I think that's a bad employer.

[David Zephyr]

25. K&R. I buy from Barnes & Noble because they pay state income taxes. Amazon hates California.

Amazon screws the citizens of California, New York and so many states whose residents patronize them while they don't contribute a penny to schools, roads, etc.

If I can't find what I need from a local book store, or a left/labor on-line bookstore, then it's Barnes and Noble for me.

K&R.

[Nye Bevan]

26. What an ignorant post.

Amazon does collect sales tax from New York purchases and has done for some time. California purchases are subject to "Use tax" which is required to be paid to CA by the purchaser. In either state Amazon does not pay the sales or use tax, the purchaser does. So Amazon is not "screwing" anybody.

[David Zephyr]

29. Yeah, and I guess the Los Angeles Times and the Huffington Post are equally "ignorant".

Do you work for Amazon or represent them? Or did you just wake up on the wrong side of your bed this morning?

In any event, here's some breaking news for you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/amazon-reacts-to-colorado_n_490028.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/20/local/la-me-amazon20-2010feb20

[Nye Bevan]

35. Which of those links supports your statement that "Amazon is screwing the citizens of New York"? (nt

[David Zephyr]

41. First of all, your odd support for Amazon at a progressive blog is noted.

You unartfully dodged the two news stories I provided links to you where Amazon has feverishly worked to avoid being a good neighbor in the states where they conduct business by collecting sales taxes that are required in those states.

The California legislature is looking at way currently to make Amazon do its part since it wants to do commerce here without contributing to our schools, to our parks, to our roads and more.

In Colorado, the corporation you oddly champion, fired its employees there rather than pay taxes. Even Wal-Mart has never done such as a wicked thing.

As to New York, finally last year, Amazon was FORCED by court order to collect sales tax. I concede that they are finally doing it after the court made them do it, but again, you obviously have some interest in carrying water for Amazon at the Democratic Underground.

So, yes Amazon is screwing Californians, screwing people in Colorado and screwed New Yorkers until they were prohibited from doing so.

Your straining at the gnat while swallowing a camel to make a minor point does not change the overarching argument that Amazon is a vampire, like the OP stated.

Your cheerleading their electronic reader (in post above) and your trying make a minor point against my tidal point is revealing.

You like the Corporation Amazon. A lot. We get that point.

I don't like it. When it contributes to my state as all other book stores do, when it becomes a good neighbor here in the Golden State and pays the back taxes it owes my state, well, then that will be a first step.

In the meantime, every progressive should stay away from buying at this corporation.

[Nye Bevan]

56. Again, Amazon is not "screwing Californians".

Californians who buy stuff on Amazon are supposed to pay Use Tax to CA on the amount of their purchase. While Amazon has no obligation to *collect* this tax (like any other out-of-state merchant), it is still due and payable. So what you really mean is that Californians are screwing themselves.

[David Zephyr]

84. Spoken like a corporate hack. They are screwing Californians. And the word is getting out.

In California, sales tax is collected by the sellers, be they mom and pop or Sears. You are passing along Amazon's talking point most eagerly. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I will let you get the last word and will not respond to anything else you write as it is clear to me that you have a reason to promote Amazon here at the DU.

Now, take your last word because I know you are compelled to.

[Nye Bevan]

85. I see you are a California resident, so I can only assume that you have not been paying Use Tax

on your online purchases. Your posts suggest that you are unaware of this requirement, so here is a link that you should find helpful:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/usetaxreturn.htm

I encourage you to pay what you owe so that you are not (albeit unintentionally) "screwing" (as you put it) your fellow Californians. California's fiscal situation would be greatly improved if people like you would pay what you owe, instead of blaming retailers like Amazon.

[Statistical]

96. Sales tax is paid by the consumer.

There is nothing to prevent you from paying "use tax" on any amazon purchases.

Technically you are required by law to report any out of state purchases (online, mail order, catalog, or purchase physically outside the state) and pay it yourself.

I am sure since you are so worried about "CA getting screwed" you itemize and pay sales tax on all of your out of state purchases.

Amazon is simply doing what millions of retailers have done for decades.

If you buy a book from a TV infomercial (located out of the state) they won't collect sales tax.
If you buy a book from a catalog (located out of the state) they won't collect sales tax.
If you buy a book from an online retailer (located out of the state) they won't collect sales tax.
If you drive to NV and purchase a book they won't collect sales tax.

In every situation YOU are required to pay the sales tax. If CA is worried about their OWN citizens CHEATING CA then CA should simply repeal the sales tax. Eliminate sales tax and increase income tax by a comparable amount. Net-net the same amount of taxation. The benefit is that it is more progressive.

[HuckleB]

43. Does Barnes & Noble collect sales tax for purchases made online?

[David Zephyr]

86. Thanks for asking the question, HuckleB. The answer is yes.

Because I reside in California, whenever I purchase on-line at Barnes & Noble, the California Sales Tax is added to the purchase when you check out and is itemized on your on-line account statement.

This is not the case with Amazon because they make sure they do not have any employees or buildings here in the State. You can see the link I provided where Amazon actually fired their employees in Colorado so that they could dodge paying sales tax.

What it does is puts Amazon at an unfair advantage of small book stores or even big ones like Barnes & Noble who have real stores here, that employ Californians, that charge sales tax that helps our schools, our roads, our parks, our beaches and more.

Amazon is anti-California. Barnes and Noble is a good neighbor.

[HuckleB]

91. Yeah, I saw what Amazon did.

The online tax thing has been in debate and flux for several years it seems.

I'm just not clear on how the current laws apply, probably partly because I live in a state with no sales tax. So, my "understanding" is that a company with a presence in that state must collect sales tax for online sales in that state. Thus, Barnes & Noble must collect in any state where it has a store, for example. Is that about right? But, I guess the follow up question is whether or not every state with sales tax has the same laws as California, or if some states end up screwing themselves, and allowing online sales without collecting sales tax.

I do agree that such a set up does hurt states, and Amazon certainly receives an unfair advantage, although they are not the only ones, it would seem.

Cheers!

[Statistical]

101. It doesn't matter the state.

Each state only has the authority to set taxation collection rules for entities in that state.
Thus VA can only require sales tax to be collected from companies in VA. CA for companies in CA.

This has nothing to do with the internet and everything to do with limits of state sovreignty.
CA for example has no legal authority to compell a business in VA to collect CA sales tax on CA residents.
It doesn't matter if it is online, mail order, direct to consumer, or physically driving to VA to purchase the goods.
CA ability to enforce taxation ends at the border of CA.

Some states fought (and lost) a Supreme court case in 1992 long before eCommerce (it was North Dakota vs a catalog company).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quill_Corp._v._North_Dakota

Nothing requires CA to collect a significant portion of their taxes by sales tax. States have multiple methods to collect revenue
* income tax
* real estate tax
* transaction tax (like on selling a house)
* service fee (like DMV fees)
* sales tax

Sales tax is one of the more difficult to collect, difficult to enforce, and the most regressive (except maybe service fees).
CA could eliminate it's sales tax and produce the same amount of revenue by raising some (or all ) of the other taxes.

[HuckleB]

103. Yes, I get all that.

The reality of Internet commerce developing amidst a world where most states, and many local governments, get needed revenue from sales tax remains. Having lived in a state without sales tax for 20 years (something that was pure accident, as I had no idea what the tax system was when I moved here), and noting the regressive nature of sales taxes, I do think it would be smarter for states to get away from it. Unfortunately, the political culture in most places doesn't make that a likely outcome.

Finally, it does make sense for a resident of a state or municipality to consider where his or her money is going. If someone saves a little bit buying online, is that an actual savings for the individual and his or her community, if one considers the lose in revenue to city or state services, as well as the loss to local businesses who may also spend money in the community and so on. It makes to consider that as a part of the equation when one spends money, IMO.

[Statistical]

107. I think eCommerce will slowly cause sales tax to move out of favor.

Initially (1800s) sales tax was preferred because many people were paid cash and very rarely was any accurate records kept. Sales taxes was seen as a more efficient & harder to bypass tax system.

Over time as record keeping improved states also added income taxes. Sales taxes make little sense to today interconnected world. Rather than fight against an dysfunctional and outdated system it would make sense to scrap sales taxes and use more equitable & progressive taxation.

Of course sadly you are right it is unlikely many states will do that. However it isn't Amazon fault that CA (or NY) rely too heavily on an obsolete method of taxation.

[HuckleB]

109. I hope you're correct. -eom-

[David Zephyr]

111. California does a terrific job in collecting sales tax from sellers here.

Amazon goes out of its way to avoid being a good neighbor, to charge and collect sales tax as their competitors here do by not employing Californians, not having any business activity here whatsoever. Amazon fired their employees in Colorado so they could continue to sell into Colorado, but not be a contributor putting them at a very unfair advantage over businesses there who are doing their part.

As Californians continue to learn about Amazon's behavior, they are moving from purchasing from Amazon. Since California is the biggest market in the nation, they will have to cave at some point as they did in New York.

Until then, every Californian should tell their friends and neighbors that Barnes & Noble has an ecommerce site that contributes back to our state, that has stores in our state that employee our residents.

[Statistical]

100. Does B&N collect taxes in all 50 states?

The answer is no.

The only reason why B&N collects sales tax in CA is because it has operations in CA.
If it didn't it wouldn't. Just like tens of thousands of online, mail-order, and direct to consumer companies don't.

CA has no legal authority to demand companies located in other states collect sales tax for CA.

[Xithras]

48. I support all online businesses in their fight against taxation.

It is beyond unreasonable to expect a business to pay taxes to all 50 states, and doing so would simply kill off Internet commerce. Because more than 95% of online businesses have less than 10 employees, these attempts are placing a destructive burden on small businesses that can least afford them. Most small businesses don't even HAVE accountants, much less accountants capable of submitting quarterly taxes to fifty different state governments.

Online sales happen at a national level. Taxation should occur at a national level. The states should f... off.

[David Zephyr]

87. It is not unreasonable.

Every software program for processing credit card purchases have triggers to apply the state income tax when the purchase is processed. I know. I own two e-commerce businesses. It does not require an extra "step" when processing.

Amazon is a predator. They are not protecting the liberty of the internet. They are undermining small businesses, book stores in California by dodging their responsibility here. They are not a poster boy for progressives to point to. At least Wal-Mart (imagine that!) collects sales tax in the states where it is required when they compete with other businesses. Amazon lowers the bar even below that of Wal-Mart. And that is saying a lot.

[Statistical]

99. So repeal the sales tax and raise income tax.

There is no legal requirement for merchants in one states to collect sales tax in another state (unless they have a nexus).

It has been this way a long time. States sued mail order catalogs half a century ago to force collection of sales tax outside the state where the merchant was located. It was found to be Unconstitutional.

If CA feels they are losing too much sales tax:
a) CA citizens should be paying the tax themselves - since you are so worried I am sure you are right?
b) reduce/eliminate sales tax and make up the deficit by increase in other taxes (income and/or real estate).

If CA needs $20B to balance the budget why does it need sales tax?
$15B income tax + $5B sales tax produces the same amount of revenue as $20B in income tax.

Why are you supporting an outdated, complex, and horribly regressive tax system?

[Xithras]

110. Yes, it IS unreasonable. 200 different tax forms a year under the current system.

You are correct that processors have the a mechanism to calculate and collect the taxes, but they still must be paid to the state governments.

If a little old retired lady wants to start a website selling cat figurines, and the laws required her to pay taxes to all states she did business in, she would be forced to collect the taxes and send out different quarterly tax payment forms each year. Four quarterlies to any state in which she made a single sale. That would kill all of the low volume one or two person businesses, which make up the bulk of online merchants. Instead of supporting small business, you'd be handing ownership of internet commerce to the big corporations, because they'd be the only ones who could afford the employees to keep the paperwork straight.

Amazon isn't dodging anything. Current law requires companies to pay taxes in states they have a physical presence in. Amazon doesn't have a physical presence in California, so they don't pay taxes here. WalMart has a physical presence in California, so they do. This occurs because of a Supreme Court ruling stating that states cannot impose tax collection duties on companies that have no presence in their states (Quill v. North Dakota, 1992). The legislative authority of a state ends at its borders, and it cannot impose legal requirements on companies beyond them. While states CAN still tax those sales, they must be collected from the party within the state (usually the customer).

If you really want to see taxes collected, then call your legislator and tell them to support HR 5660. HR 5660 would require that businesses collect sales taxes for states, but ONLY if those states adopt a nationally standardized tax payment scheme using nationally standardized forms (the idea being that a California businesses shouldn't have to learn Connecticut tax regulations or use Connecticut tax forms to report a single sale). It also requires that a single national tax registration authority be set up and funded by the states (so a business can register and file all forms in a single place). Most importantly, 5660 also contains a requirement that small sellers be exempted from these rules, so the retiree oeprating "kittyfigurines.com" won't have to worry about it at all.

The current taxing system is untenable for small internet sites operating at a national (or international) level. That system must be fixed BEFORE taxes can be levied on out-of-state Internet sales. Even if that exemption currently benefits Jeff Bezos.

[JI7]

27. can't people sell stuff through Amazon also ? how they show others selling the same item

and for how much. giving you a chance to buy from someone else for less if you want.

[tammywammy]

37. Yes, I've personally sold used textbooks via Amazon. n/t

[JI7]

38. yeah, so i wouldn't say it's the same thing as Walmart, it's more similar to Blockbuster and Netflix

change in technology and ways of doing business. but not for the worse as you say, amazon gives regular people a chance to use their many customers and anyone else viewing the site to buy from non amazon businesses and people.

[Brickbat]

30. I hate Amazon too, because they're just as union-busting as Wal-Mart is.

I don't buy a damn thing from either of them.

[David Zephyr]

32. Worse than Wal-Mart.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/amazon-reacts-to-colorado_n_490028.html

[eShirl]

31. You can find really cheap used books & videos from 3rd party sellers on Amazon

[cbdo2007]

36. Unfortunately, Amazon also lets 3rd party sellers use fake prices to artificially

put them at the top of the search results.

Search for just about anything and sort from "price low to high" then you will see a bunch of 3rd party sellers selling the item for $ .01 with $14.99 shipping & handling.

I would be happy if Amazon would let you turn off 3rd party sellers altogether, if we choose.

[pipi_k]

73. Definitely not as cheap as...

buying used books or music from the Goodwill store or at yard sales, but I have bought books for as low as a penny and the shipping is under $3.00. Sometimes the seller will describe the book as being "used...good condition" and I'll get it, and it looks brand new.

Sometimes sellers do offer merchandise at extremely reasonable prices only to jack up the shipping costs, but I solve that problem by not buying from them.

Same happens on eBay, even though the sellers aren't supposed to do it.

People are responsible for paying attention to all the details before clicking the "buy" button. A lesson I learned one time and never forgot...I went to buy some of those little replacement "squeakies" for dog toys...found a bunch of them real cheap. Bought them and then discovered that the bunch of squeakies I paid less than $2.00 for would cost more than $6.00 to ship. It was only a few minutes before I realized my mistake, and when I wrote to the seller I was told I couldn't cancel the order.

sigh...

I now check out everything before I buy...

[eShirl]

79. the local Goodwill has a very limited, well picked-over selection, and no $0.01 books at all

I can buy books cheaper from Amazon, even taking account shipping, than I can from our local Goodwill.

[pipi_k]

106. Yeah, that's the downside

At Goodwill you have to pick through what they have. The store I go to has a pretty large section of books. A lot of them are those Romance novels which I don't read, but I can still come away with five or more of other kinds that are worth reading. They're about 25 cents each, and once a month I can use my special card and get one free, plus for every $5.00 I spend I get a spot on another card which, when filled, gets me $5.00 off any purchase.

On Amazon I get a larger selection, but even one book at a penny plus shipping costs what I can get a bunch of books for at Goodwill.

All depends on the circumstances...

[eShirl]

77. They are not fake prices. I have actually bought $0.01 books before

and unlike eBay, Amazon sets a standardized, reasonable amount for the shipping charge.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. I use the foreign Amazon sites to order DVDs and books that aren't available

in the States. Otherwise, I prefer brick and mortar bookstores.

[Luminous Animal]

40. I don't shop Amazon, either. I shop at my local book store. The ones that carry new and the ones..

that carry used. Never, never, ever, Amazon. For anything.

[David Zephyr]

112. Bravo.

Local is always better.

[Common Sense Party]

42. Not everyone hates Wal-Mart.

[phasma ex machina]

46. +1 hundreds of millions of poor people can't be wrong. nt

[uncommon]

62. Unfortunately true -

there have been times when I wouldn't have been able to buy things if I couldn't buy them at Walmart. I know it's a vicious cycle, but we don't always have a lot of options.

[Critters2]

44. I have two parishioners who sell books. One owns an independent bookstore,

the other manages a Waldenbooks (a division of Borders). I alternate my book buying between them. When I want to order something they don't have on hand, I ask them to do that. Yeah, the Waldenbooks is corporate, but I do support a brick and mortar store this way, employing local workers.

[wickerwoman]

47. What % of Amazon employees are paid so little they qualify for foodstamps?

[uncommon]

63. To be fair, a lot of people who work at a lot of places qualify for food stamps.

[Cal Carpenter]

52. Corporate relativism makes the cognitive dissonanace easier to take?

Capitalism is capitalism is capitalism. It always cracks me up that a)people think if we just made better 'choices' with our spending the 'evil' corporations would fail and that b)there are kindler, gentler capitalist corporations.

[superduperfarleft]

98. Well said.

I came here to post almost exactly the same thing, but you beat me to it.

[pipoman]

53. A bit off topic

I recently ordered contacts from 1-800-contacts and learned that they are Wal-Mart...surprised me a little.

[tammywammy]

55. I think they're separate companies

1800 Contacts just entered into an agreement to sell their contacts through Walmart stores.

[pipoman]

57. When I got my perscription

it had a Wal-Mart contact case in the package as well as walmart coupons for contact supplies. I have to think Wal-Mart either controls the company or they own it. They are all about controlling the possibility of negative press through no fault of their own..

[tammywammy]

59. They're separate companies

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wal-mart-teams-with-1-800-contacts-to-expand-vision-care-offerings-and-increase-customer-savings-57050497.html

They joined up together, but they're still separate. I'm sure your Walmart case and coupons is part of their partnership together, but Walmart doesn't own them.

[Skidmore]

58. Ok, so I'm supposed to hate Amazon today?

Anyone else? Do I just hate it or boycott it, or hate it and boycott it. I can't keep up.

[pipi_k]

78. I can't keep up either...

But I think we're definitely not supposed to hate Campbell's soup.

[kentauros]

90. Even though Campbell's Soup uses pipelines to transport "liquid product"

:)

I learned that while working for a company that designed, built and used "smart pigs" for tracing pipeline routes. I guess Campbell's didn't know exactly where one of their pipelines was and hired this little company to properly locate it.

Isn't factory food wonderful? :P

[pipi_k]

108. eeewww...I didn't know that....

Having lots of trouble right now imagining chunky clam chowder traveling through a pipe...

:puke:

[kentauros]

113. Don't worry about solids going through.

They'd be pulverized by any pumping system for a pipeline. Mostly likely it was just for "broth". Still, not a tasty image... ;)

[Count Olaf]

60. Reduce,Reuse,Recycle and support other Americans- that is why I use Amazon Marketplace

You can buy almost anything used in like new condition from sellers all over the country. Instead of printing up a new book, you can support another American family selling their stuff to get by. Amazon usually gets a few bucks but most goes to the seller. If you want to sell something, you can list it forever...and are only charged when it sells. Amazon takes a percentage but pays the seller pretty quickly.

I highly suggest that anyone struggling to pay bills, look around on your book shelves, dvd collection etc and check what it is selling for in the Amazon marketplace. Many books you might have purchased years ago are out of print and now go for much more $$. I have all kinds of things listed and usually sell enough per month to pay the netflix bill at least.

There is nothing more blue that reducing our footprint and supporting other Americans.



(But I agree, Walmart does get treated unfairly. Go to any store and try to find something made in America, it is pretty damn hard. It is not actually Walmart that made the free trade agreements that are destroying the country- it is the bastards in Congress that need to be held accountable. Greedy companies do what they always do- look for more $$.
That is why we have(had) regulations and tariffs.)

[Xenotime]

65. Who is the most progressive business we should support?

[DainBramaged]

75. None, potato sack clothes and walking in bare feet is the only answer

according to us on the DU, they all suck, so we might as well just eat dirt and wait to die.....

[apocalypsehow]

97. Sneering at Wal-Mart (and those who shop there) is largely an affectation - I saw an arrogant moron

compare it to being a concentration camp guard the other day, which tells you something about the low intellectual quality of those who shriek the loudest about it.

[TheMightyFavog]

102. Beacuse as a librarian Amazon is our go-to search engine if a patron gets a title wrong...

Amazon's got a seriously kickass search engine. If I had a nickle for every time I had a parton asking me for a book who ended up getting the title wrong, I could tell both my student loan providers to fuck off and die.

[Swamp Rat]

104. Wal-Mart and Amazon are altogether different beasts... I often NEED Amazon

Major differences between the two:

1. Amazon - a person can purchase high quality merchandise (or not), products made in America, and used items of varying quality from individuals. One can find better prices at Amazon too, including shipping, for the same products.

2. Wal-Mart - a person can only purchase limited items selected by Wal-Mart, normally of inferiority quality, mostly made in Chinese sweatshops.

Amazon sent me text books at a fraction of the cost of the same items sold everywhere else, and has consistently delivered on time and at the quality advertised (or better). Amazon saved my ass during my PhD comprehensive exams, as I was able to buy a dozen used books at about $6 apiece, including shipping, all of which arrived within 2 weeks (most after 3-4 days). I could not find many of these books at local university libraries, and the small book store I normally patronize wanted 3-5 times the amount, nor could they deliver on time for my exams. There are many used book stores in New Orleans, but none had the specific, out of print or rare books I needed (let alone in good shape with hardcover bindings).

I regularly use the reviews at Amazon to help me decide on purchases I make at local stores, like the cheap, electric weed eater I bought last week. When I could not find a decent, small vacuum cleaner locally, I bought it from Amazon and it arrived in 2-3 days!!

For those of us who are car-less, Amazon is a very useful, and cost effective option and, perhaps, more carbon neutral.

Amazon provides the best, and most secure pathway for poor and middle class people to sell their belongings, and to purchase a wide variety used items.

Honestly, I really do not understand the comparison in the OP due to the lack of any background research or facts for making such a comparison. :shrug:

[dixiegrrrrl]

115. For those of us who live 90 miles from any decent store, Amazon is a good deal.

The sales tax in my city is 9.5%.

It would cost 20.00 minimum in gas, plus most of a day, to drive to the nearest city to shop for books, or for
most products that I end up buying online.In the heat and humidity of a Southern summer, that is not the least appealing.

For those of us living on a limited budget, in the sticks, a place like Amazon is a blessing.
And it keeps me from driving to our local Wal-Mart for things I need.
Which is often cheaper, low shipping, and I can buy while in my pajamas at 3 am if I choose.

Now, about that Kindle....reading in bed, eh?

[Liberal_in_LA]

105. Didn't know amazon was bad

[Nye Bevan]

116. Totally missing from this "Amazon is Evil" thread.....

does anyone have one, just one, link to a news story where an Amazon employee reports that he or she has been badly treated or discriminated against?

Just one link? Anyone?

Perhaps Amazon is not so evil after all......