What am I missing with the tax cut issue? Do democrats want to lose in November?

[no limit]

The Bush tax cuts are set to expire at the end of the year. If congress does absolutely nothing taxes will go back to where they were before Bush, no vote is needed.

The democrats can put up a new tax plan that would give tax cuts to anyone making under $250,000 and force a vote on it. They do not want to do this before the elections because voting for any kind of tax raises, even for the rich, would hurt many blue dogs. That would be a fair argument, if it were in anyway true. The democrats would never have to vote for a tax increase, they would only have to vote on a tax cut. A tax cut for 98% of americans that republicans would vote AGAINST. Seems like a no brain clear cut issue any american could easily understand. The Democrats voted for tax cuts for 98% of americans. The republicans voted against it. You have a very simple campaign ad which the large majority of americans agree with for every single district in this country.

So why in the hell would democrats not do this? Can anyone explain this to me? It seems dumb to say they want to lose, but what other possible logical explaination is there for what they are doing?

[Statistical]

1. You honestly think the media will give credit to that (dubious) distinction.

The Republicans will block the bill because they will spin it as stopping a tax increase during a recession. Media will accept that line and Democrats will be forced the complexity to a populace that 9 times out of 10 frankly doesn't give a damn.

[no limit]

2. Explain to me how they spin this. No vote to increase taxes would ever take place

only a vote to decrease taxes, a vote that republicans would be on the wrong side of.

[Statistical]

3. Well you have a lot more faith in our media and voters than I do.

The first thing is the tax increase won't happen until after the elections (Jan 1, 2011 to be exact) so any bill that allows a portion of them to expire will be labeled a tax increase. Democrats already rolled over on that point and it has been blasted nonstop for months now. Unless Congress acts there will be a "tax increase".

Republicans will simply say they are holding out to avoid letting Democrats raise taxes. They will say: "If the Democrats pass this bill it will raise taxes on job creating small business owners". The media will run with that. "Democrats attempting to raise taxes in middle of recession if only the poor little Republicans had more seats in Congress so they could prevent taxes from going up".

Then the bogus side stories on how raising taxes is going to hurt jobs, the interview w/ Mr. Smith small business owner who says he will be force to layoff 2 more workers if the greedy Democrats get their way. All this right before an already tough election.

Democrats have no spine for a tough uphill fight like that. Hell the cave on much easier topics.

[no limit]

6. But if what you argue is true the story would already be that they will raise taxes

because how is not allowing any vote (raising taxes for everyone) better than a vote that cuts taxes for 98% of americans? This makes absolutely no sense. I don't care how dishonest the media is, how evil the republicans are, any American capable of smashing 2 brain cells together would understand this.

The democratic campaign ad sounds like this: We voted to cut your taxes, the republicans voted against it. (senate bill...)

The republican ad: Yes, we voted against cutting the taxes of 98% of you, if we can't get the top 2% of americans to get a tax break none of you are getting one. Because those 2% create jobs, drive our economy, blah, blah, blah, blahblah.

Which is the better campaign ad?

[Statistical]

11. Well write to the DNC then.

However most Americans are brain dead stupid when it comes to politics and the Democrats already have a (some deserved some BS) "rep" for raising taxes.

Most will take what the media says as face value. Republicans will spin it that Democrats want to raise taxes. Period. There won't be any details in there. Democrats will raise taxes Democrats will raise taxes Democrats will raise taxes. Period.

It will be repeated hundreds if not thousands of times before election day. The Republicans will say with just a few more votes (it is up to you patrotic voters) they can prevent tax increase for ALL AMERICANS. Now how great does that sound.

Lastly as "proof" the Democrats could extend the tax cuts today.... right now for all Americans including job creating small businesses but the won't which is why voters need to kick them out so we can get the economy going ..... blah blah blah.... I think you get the point.

Maybe I am just a cynic but I see it working. Most Americans have no idea how taxes work, how businesses pay taxes (only on profits), how marginal rates work. By election day they will know one "fact".... Democrats want to raise taxes.

[no limit]

12. the DNC doest seem to care. and again, they can already spin this anyway they want

And it will be extremely easy to blame democrats for this when all taxes go up (which is why they will cave and extend all tax cuts after elections in my prediction).

Yes, Americans are brain dead when it comes to politics, but not that brain dead. All you do is run an ad that says we voted to cut your taxes they voted against it (here is the bill number for proof). No amount of spin could complicate such a simple theme.

Edit: sorry about spelling, on my phone.

[meowomon]

4. They don't want to lose the business money that pour into the campaigns.

Blue Dogs won't vote for it and it will fail. No Spines for the rest.

[Johonny]

20. What good is campaign money if you lose?

you can't legally spend it on yourself.

[BzaDem]

5. Because the Republicans and a complicit media will paint the vote as a tax increase regardless of

what it actually is.

[no limit]

7. I don't buy that at all.

See my post above.

[BzaDem]

13. Whether you buy it or not, that is the actual reason why Democrats nixed the vote.

You could argue that the media will help the Democrats and not parrot the Republican line, but you can't argue that my stated reason wasn't the reason they nixed the vote, because it was. Multiple sources have reported the same thing.

As for your post, it misses a critical distinction. If there is no vote, Republicans can say that "Democrats will cause a tax increase." But if there is a vote, the Republican can say "my opponent VOTED for a tax increase." One is a general statement about a party, and one is a specific statement about an opponent's actual voting record. The latter is much more potent (or at the very least that is what basically all Senate Democrats up for re-election believe).

[no limit]

16. But you just totally ignored my entire point then flipped it on it's head

The point is the only vote that would take place would be to cut taxes, not raise them. And republicans would be on the wrong side of that vote.

The democrats could run campaign ads that say something as simple as "we voted for giving you a tax cut, the republicans voted against (senate bill....). I don't care how much spin the media is capable of, there is no way to complicate such a simple theme.

So give me some specifics on how they spin this.

[Toots]

15. It is a tax increase but Democrats didn't create it Republicans did.

Republicans are the ones that set the expiration date.. Democrats feel they can never win a tax battle with Republicans so they don't want to even try..I am beginning to feel like a Republican in that if Democrats are so afraid of Republicans how can they protect America..Our enemies are every bit as scary as Republicans. Democrats refuse to act out of fear of losing. Will they feel the same against a foreign entity? I am beginning to have grave concerns about continuing to support such cowards.

[sandnsea]

8. DeFazio is running against pork and the deficit

If an uber progressive defines the problem as Democrats spending too much money, then what do you expect blue dogs to do? And if Obama is packing spending bills with pork, then why in the world would you vote to give him *more* money?

Candidates in the Democratic Party run against being a Democrat, whether they're progressives, centrists or blue dogs. That is the problem with this party.

[Cicada]

9. if there's a vote - and the bill fails - dem voter turnout declines

Reid isn't sure he can pass the bill. If bluedogs like Nelson cause the bill to fail, dems will look weak, base will be unhappy, won't vote.

[no limit]

10. You think the base is happy with them dropping this all together? As they did with DADT?

You can't possibly be serious.

I am part of the hardcore left that really doesn't feel like voting. And why is that? because these assholes won't fight for me. If they lose a fight I could respect that, but they won't even fight.

[HopeHoops]

14. What you're missing about the tax cut issue is at least $250,000 a year.

And yes, it is possible to have more money than you need. As for the Democrats, they're just as dependent on money from the top 3% as the Republicans are - they just do a better job of pretending NOT to be.

[no limit]

17. so why should I vote for them? Becuase they suck a little less?

If what you say is true even the argument that they suck a little less is starting to lose it's strenght.

[HopeHoops]

19. Oh, it lost that a long time ago. Still, by not voting for the Dems, you help the Repukes.

12 years of Reagan/Bush 1 - royally sucked ass.
8 years of Clinton - went from record deficit to the first surplus in forever.
8 years of Dubya - sucked even BIGGER ass and went from Clinton's surplus to deficits that made Reagan look good.
Less than 2 years of Obama - the dickheads are screaming that he hasn't fixed Dubya's mess yet.

If we give the Repukes any more power, they'll just fuck things up even more. I hope the teabaggers contribute heavily to the destruction of the GOP.

[Atman]

18. No, the Democrats on the Hill are all rich as shit, and they want their tax breaks

just like the Repub richies do. Half of them think they'll be out of a job in six weeks...no point in tacking $100,000 in taxes onto the burden. Face it, they (Dems AND Repubs) are of the same ilk on this issue...they have so much money that they can't think of anything else.

.