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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:31 PM Original message |
Poll question: Re: the Koran burning, the skateboarder who prevented one, and freedom of expression, a question. |
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woo me with science (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:33 PM Response to Original message |
1. This isn't a matter of opinion. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:35 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. I agree. There seem to be many here who disagree. I'm trying to guage the pulse of DU via this poll. |
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johnaries (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:43 PM Response to Original message |
3. It's hate speech. Hate speech is not protected. nt |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:44 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. How is it hate speech? And for the record, could you define illegal hate speech. |
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Ter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:21 AM Response to Reply #3 |
72. In this country, it is |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 02:22 AM Response to Reply #3 |
79. Um, what? |
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Codeine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 11:24 AM Response to Reply #3 |
101. Lol wut? |
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Bonobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:46 PM Response to Original message |
5. Yes, but they also have to accept the ramifications. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:49 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. But those things are not constitutionally protected. They are crimes. |
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Tunkamerica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:08 AM Response to Reply #7 |
17. and the skateboarder prevented an international incident |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:14 AM Response to Reply #17 |
22. Well maybe we should take South Park off the air in deference to those offended? |
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Bonobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:21 AM Response to Reply #22 |
31. "Our freedom trumps every other argument out there" |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:34 AM Response to Reply #31 |
43. Should have said "the freedoms we have" then. Spitting up teeth? |
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Bonobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:18 AM Response to Reply #7 |
27. Who said anything about laws? |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:35 AM Response to Reply #27 |
44. Yeah, I get your point. I'm talking about constitutionally protected rights. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:11 AM Response to Reply #5 |
92. And the perpetrator of such "ramifications" will "have to accept" being ARRESTED. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:48 PM Response to Original message |
6. Depends |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:50 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. Not familiar with that case. Burning a cross in my front yard surely isn't illegal. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:53 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. It is a question of intent |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:04 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. The ruling didn't outlaw burning the Koran anymore than it outlawed the burning of the American flag |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:07 AM Response to Reply #14 |
16. The state, therefore, must prove intent to intimidate. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:17 AM Response to Reply #16 |
25. Again, the mere act does not prove intent to intimidate. nt |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:22 AM Response to Reply #25 |
33. But the statements from the preacher do |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:31 AM Response to Reply #33 |
41. Neither am I but there are lines. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:39 AM Response to Reply #41 |
50. I went beyond just railing against the Patriot Act |
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FirstLight (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:04 AM Response to Reply #50 |
66. +1000 |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:08 AM Response to Reply #66 |
69. And every American citizen who travels abroad |
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Tunkamerica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:09 AM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Uncle Sam always gets so scared when anarchists burn the flag. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:36 AM Response to Reply #19 |
46. But he doesn't stop it. And neither should anyone else. nt |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 03:00 AM Response to Reply #46 |
82. "and neither should anyone else" |
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Politicalboi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 04:05 AM Response to Reply #9 |
86. Burning a cross in a park would be against the law. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:50 PM Response to Original message |
8. 77% of people (at the time of posting) support civil liberties. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:51 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. More than I thougt it would be after reading some of the posts here the last few days. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:59 PM Response to Reply #8 |
13. How in the world do you figure that? |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:05 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. weak. Rights are actions which are protect (i.e govt can't punish) |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:09 AM Response to Reply #15 |
18. replied to wrong post, again |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:24 AM Response to Reply #15 |
37. Before you take my position anywhere maybe you should read it |
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The Northerner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 11:54 PM Response to Original message |
12. Offensive and disagreeable speech is still free speech and we must defend it |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:10 AM Response to Reply #12 |
20. +1 |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:11 AM Response to Original message |
21. Can theft be considered expression? |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:14 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. Not legal expression. nt |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:20 AM Response to Reply #24 |
30. It is perfectly legal expression. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:23 AM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Wait, theft is legal? Is that what you're saying? nt |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:25 AM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Theft as expression is. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:38 AM Response to Reply #38 |
48. Can I come express myself at your house? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:47 AM Response to Reply #48 |
54. I have few possessions. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:58 AM Response to Reply #54 |
62. But your possessions are yours, not mine. What gives me the right to take them from you? |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:12 AM Response to Reply #30 |
93. Theft, by definition, is a crime. FYI: Crimes are illegal acts. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:17 AM Response to Reply #21 |
26. It certainly can be however it is also a crime. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:20 AM Response to Reply #26 |
28. replied to wrong post |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:23 AM Response to Reply #28 |
35. Do you understand how the reply function works? |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:38 AM Response to Reply #35 |
49. You are correct. My mistake. Sorry. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:20 AM Response to Reply #26 |
29. It is only a crime if one presses charges. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:21 AM Response to Reply #29 |
32. I'm pretty sure theft is illegal whether or not charges are pressed. Rape, for example. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:27 AM Response to Reply #32 |
39. Yes, you're mincing words and using absurd analogies. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:40 AM Response to Reply #39 |
51. Theft is a crime. How is that miincing words? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:43 AM Response to Reply #51 |
53. So is taking over a factory. Legality has nothing to do with it, and in the end... |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:50 AM Response to Reply #53 |
57. The comparison was to make a point. If I stole your car, and called it expression, would it be legal |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:54 AM Response to Reply #57 |
58. If it was a political statement, possibly. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:56 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Tell me what kind of car you drive and I'll craft a political reason to take it. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:58 AM Response to Reply #60 |
61. And I probably won't press charges if you can pull that off. |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:00 AM Response to Reply #61 |
63. It would still be a crime. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:18 AM Response to Reply #58 |
96. The crime would still have occurred, PROSECUTION NOTWITHSTANDING. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:15 AM Response to Reply #53 |
95. You have a bee in your bonnet over "unions taking over a factory." WHY? |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:29 AM Response to Reply #29 |
40. splitting hairs but still completely wrong. prosecution or lack there of doesn't detemrine a crime. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:33 AM Response to Reply #40 |
42. I suppose you support union busting when they take over property they don't own. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:36 AM Response to Reply #42 |
45. I don't support it however please show me a cite where a crime becomes non-crime |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:41 AM Response to Reply #45 |
52. Because something is illegal that shouldn't magically make it wrong to do. |
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Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:55 AM Response to Reply #52 |
59. You're not using the word correctly. |
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El Prezidente Kaboom (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:01 AM Response to Reply #40 |
65. Noone is entitled to the right to burn non-food items in a public park's BBQ grill. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:13 AM Response to Reply #29 |
94. Guess again. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:14 AM Response to Original message |
23. One's freedom of expression isn't necessarily sacred when it can |
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The Northerner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:23 AM Response to Original message |
36. Wow, I can't believe that this thread has currently been unrecced to 0 |
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Skip Intro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:37 AM Response to Reply #36 |
47. Crazy ain't it? nt |
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El Prezidente Kaboom (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:48 AM Response to Reply #36 |
55. Freedom of Speech does not include the right to abuse or misappropriate the use of a public good. |
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The Northerner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 12:49 AM Response to Reply #55 |
56. So there are limits to how someone can express his/her right to free speech now? |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:06 AM Response to Reply #56 |
67. There are limits such as clear and present danger, malice, or defamation. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:06 AM Response to Reply #56 |
68. Yes, the best known is |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:25 AM Response to Reply #68 |
74. As far as I'm concerned it's hate speech. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 11:09 AM Response to Reply #74 |
99. While I agree with you |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:17 AM Response to Reply #56 |
70. Uh, yes. There always has been. |
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El Prezidente Kaboom (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:25 AM Response to Reply #56 |
73. 'Free speech' is unlimited. But there are limits to what constitutes 'free-speech.' |
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emilyg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:01 AM Response to Original message |
64. k r |
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blogslut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:20 AM Response to Original message |
71. The book was not stolen |
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El Prezidente Kaboom (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:30 AM Response to Reply #71 |
76. I don't know about abandonment. Although it's possible. |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 01:27 AM Response to Original message |
75. As far as I'm concerned, it's hate speech. |
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MrModerate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 02:12 AM Response to Original message |
77. Freedom of expression goes both ways. Here's a phrase I've used a lot today: |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 02:16 AM Response to Reply #77 |
78. Yes! Exactly. |
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MrModerate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 02:30 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. I've noticed a lot of people have trouble distinguishing . . . |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 02:43 AM Response to Reply #80 |
81. It's total insanity anymore. |
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notesdev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 03:05 AM Response to Reply #77 |
83. Theft is not a freedom |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 03:29 AM Response to Reply #83 |
84. Oh, come on. It's not grand theft we're talking about. |
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notesdev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 03:49 AM Response to Reply #84 |
85. That just makes it worse |
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MrModerate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 04:23 AM Response to Reply #85 |
88. Wow, that's some pretty serious overreaching! Color me gobsmacked. |
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blogslut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 04:55 AM Response to Reply #85 |
89. The skater preveted nothing |
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MrModerate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 04:21 AM Response to Reply #83 |
87. Early reports are that the police aren't viewing it as a theft. |
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Douglas Carpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 05:41 AM Response to Original message |
90. if someone yells n-word, n-word at an African-American in a public city park |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:28 AM Response to Reply #90 |
98. They can intervene on "disturbing the peace." |
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stellanoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:00 AM Response to Original message |
91. other |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 06:27 AM Response to Original message |
97. Laws pertaining to "hate speech" IN THE U.S.: |
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felix_numinous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-13-10 11:22 AM Response to Original message |
100. Teabaggers and neo con stunts are bringing up Constitutional and civil rights issues |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Fri Apr 26th 2024, 09:38 AM Response to Original message |
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