Virginia's "Marriage Amendment"

[LostinVA]

I know Michigan's law is just as bad. Basically, it also disallows private contracts between same sex couple if that contract signifies in anyway to treat the relationship like a marriage, ie POAs and leaving property to a partner. All you need is a relative to raise hell.

*************************************************



Marshall-Newman Amendment


Background

Virginia's amendment is alone in preventing the state from recognizing private contracts; South Carolina's amendment explicitly disavows such an aim.<3> Observers have pointed out that such language encompasses private contracts and medical directives.<4><5>

The text of the amendment states:

Only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions. This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage.

Criticism

<snip>

Virginia appears to abridge gay individuals' right to enter into private contracts with each other. On its face, the law could interfere with wills, medical directives, powers of attorney, child custody and property arrangements, even perhaps joint bank accounts. If a gay Californian was hit by a bus in Arlington, her medical power of attorney might be worthless there.<6>



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Marriage_Amendment

[RainDog]

1. so, Virginia is now for h8ers? n/t

[LostinVA]

5. lol

That should be a t-shirt they sell at Luray Caverns!

[NMMNG]

44. It's long been for haters

When I was moving cross-country we went about 300 miles out of our way specifically to avoid setting foot (or tire) in VA. They're sickeningly anti-gay there.

[XemaSab]

2. Why did I think states were required to recognize marriages

performed by other states?

[LostinVA]

7. Probably because the Constitution says they are supposed to

[uncommon]

25. Which makes the DOMA de facto unconstitutional.

[LostinVA]

27. No argument from me!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

39. Anything is only as constitutional or unconstitutional as the Supreme Court says it is. -nt

[lost-in-nj]

3. this is both scarey and sad....

it boggles the mind.....


lost

[LostinVA]

10. Yup, I know

[uncommon]

4. How can a state just ignore the rights of another state???

If a couple is married in the state of Massachusetts, they are considered legally married by the federal government - therefore they are still married when the cross the border into another state.

Wtf is wrong with people?

[LostinVA]

9. VERY few states recognize same sex marriages

I can't think of the exact number, but it's only a few.

They aren't still married, though, according to the Federal Gov't.

[uncommon]

12. That doesn't make sense though - a straight couple married in MA is still married in Louisiana...

[LostinVA]

17. DOMA

Which is 100% Unconstitutional.

[uncommon]

22. Why isn't the DOMA nullified by the fact that

a married couple who crosses the border into another state is still a married couple (or should be)? It seems like a simple way of saying that the DOMA violates states rights by not recognizing a right retained by and granted by the individual state...

[LostinVA]

24. Yes, that is what GLBTers and allies have been saying for over a decade

And why Obama needs to stand before Congress and make a speech like that Freeper bastard Wilson for Women's Suffrage.

[uncommon]

28. A-fricken-men.

Enough of this shit already.

[NMMNG]

45. Bingo

That's what we've been saying all along. Of course our "fierce advocate" claimed he was going to get rid of DOMA but it took some Massholes (slang term for people from MA*) to finally get things rolling.


(*While I'm now a Californian I was born and raised a Masshole so I can use the term. ;) )

[LostinVA]

49. +1

[JonLP24]

78. It was ruled unconstitutional not too long ago

Obama admin. has 60 days to appeal the ruling.

[underpants]

55. As you stated below DOMA excludes gay marriages from protection under the Constitution

This is yet another embarassment for Virginia.

The Republicans still run the place even with a Dem majority in the Senate and two of the last three Governors being Dems.

[LostinVA]

56. I swear I see the freaking Governor twice a month

He is rather short.

[underpants]

57. "Bobblehead"

his answer to the State of the Union speech had me in stitches in minutes. The lack of timing of both his speechmaking and the hand-picked rainbow Republican backdrop led him to bob his head waiting for applause. It was a worse performance than Jindals in my opinion.

[LostinVA]

61. rofl

[LiberalAndProud]

6. I'm sorry, but this crap makes Obama's civil union stance look

downright reasonable. And that, IMO, is a travesty.

[LostinVA]

11. I think it is exactly like his civil union stance

Separate but unequal will always lead to garbage like this.

:sigh:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[myrna minx]

13. I've really appreciated your thoughts over the last couple of days.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

14. 100% correct -- great post!

[readmoreoften]

21. +1

[Starry Messenger]

31. +1000

[Zenlitened]

104. "You are there alone and the law tells you that you do not matter."

No words are adequate to describe that horror.

[LostinVA]

106. Yes

[VMI Dem]

15. Hey, this leaving it to the states thing is really working out I see.

[LostinVA]

16. Michigan's law is just as bad

It has the private contract proviso, too.

Civil rights need to be guaranteed and protected by the Federal Government.

[VMI Dem]

18. That would require certain people to see it as a civil rights issue.

Certain people still see it as a matter for the states to decide.

[LostinVA]

19. Oh, I totally agree with you

Legally, this issue was decided DECADES ago by Loving v. Virginia.

Mrs. Loving came out in support of marriage equality before she died.

[uncommon]

23. Wow, I just read up on that case - that is insane. How quickly we forget.

[LostinVA]

26. There was a good TV movie about this case

It's worth seeing if Netflix has it, if you;'re a member. Timothy Hutton and Lela Rochon starred in it.

[uncommon]

29. They do indeed - it appears to be on a wait or something but I added it to my queue.

Thanks!

[LostinVA]

30. Mrs. Loving disputed the accuracy of some of it

Mainly some things in their home life, but the case itself was pretty accurate, as was their literal banishment from Virginia.

This case was decided well within my lifetime. Scary.

[motely36]

32. I would say unbelievable,

but I am not really that surprised.

:mad:

[LostinVA]

33. For almost four years now, Motely

[LisaM]

34. It would be interesting if some progressive state took the bold step

of invalidating straight marriages once a couple crossed straight lines. Force them to file separate tax returns, don't let them visit each other in the hospital, basically strip them of all the privileges of marriage.

A bit drastic, but it might make the point.

Same-sex marriage is now my go-to issue when voting for judges. There are many gay advocacy groups that endorse. Check into it in your state.

[uncommon]

37. I think this is a great idea --

unfortunately I don't think there is a state that progressive.

[LostinVA]

40. All hell would break lose if tehy even did ONE thing like that!

[leftyclimber]

35. k7r

[racaulk]

36. Absolutely shameful.

In other words, disgraceful.

K&R

[mentalsolstice]

38. K&R n/t

[mitchtv]

41. Was this supported by then Gov Tim Kaine?

nt

[LostinVA]

43. He signed it into law

And also supported it in televised debates. Which is why I had a FIT when he was chosen as DNC Head. He's also anti-choice.

I voted for him, because I had to, like Webb, but I didn't like doing it at all.

[Blue_Tires]

46. +1

Why he was made DNC head after Dean set the standard I will never know...

[Unvanguard]

60. You can't sign constitutional amendments into law, and Tim Kaine opposed this.

In most states--including, I'd bet, Virginia--they are put to the voters by either an initiative process or the state legislature, and cannot be vetoed.

As for Tim Kaine's opposition, see, e.g., here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401556.html

[LostinVA]

62. Tim Kaine signed it

That's a fact.

?????

[Unvanguard]

68. See post #67. n/t

[LostinVA]

70. He signed the fucking thing -- I am tired of you saying I'm wrong

About something I know WAY more about than you, and which actually affects me. I am tired of the {A behavior on this forum today.

[Unvanguard]

75. I'm sorry that you're tired of me pointing out that you're wrong.

The obvious solution is to admit that, indeed, you are--or to actually provide evidence that you are right, which would get me to admit that I am wrong.

Protesting my cruelty in contesting a factual assertion of yours (and, unlike you, actually sourcing my claim with a news article) is hardly a particularly convincing argument.

[LostinVA]

85. Except you haven't done that one time

Although you REALLY seem to want to for some reason.

And, I am disengaging with you. This is an interesting thread, and it's being hijacked into you wanting to eb in a pissing contest with me while you defend Tim Kaine.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

42. Virginia Versus Loving (eom)

[LostinVA]

47. In Wisconsin, you can go to PRISON for marrying your partner in, say, Iowa

Do you get that? PRISON AND A FINE.

In Wisconsin, it's a crime for its residents to marry out-of-state if that marriage is not recognized in Wisconsin (ie same sex marriage now) to the tune of a $10,000 fine & up to 9 months in prison.

has it ever been applied? I don't know, although the law has been around since 1915, and it's still on the books. Before the USSC overturned state sodomy laws, I know quite a few people -- even straight people -- were arrested for performing oral sex on their SO's, including one notorious case in NC in the early 1990's (heterosexual). So, for all the naysayers "questioning" whether current same sex marriages can actually be found to be, illegal, guess what? THEY ALREADY ARE!

http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/cnn_gaymarriage_jail07110...

[Prism]

48. C'mon, no one uses amendments any more!

They're just for show, like ribbons or lawn accoutrements.

I find a constitutional amendment gives states that extra sparkle of glamor and sophistication. It says "We're not above altering our government just for the look of it!" That's style and moxie we should all get behind.

For, like, tourism and shit.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. This is Tim Kaine's Law, the one he supported so strongly

That is why as long as he is the head of this Party, the Party is basically a religious dogma promotion unit with the smug and dull as dishwater Mr Kaine whining us back into the 19th century.

[mitchtv]

52. He's in,

I'm out. that's when I quit the DNC, no to homophobic Dems, That's a "NO"

[Unvanguard]

59. Um, Tim Kaine opposed this amendment.

See here.

[LostinVA]

63. He signed it AND HE WAS FOR SAME SEX MARRIAGE BEING BANNED

He is against it. The ONLY thing he objected to was private contracts being fiddled with, but he was fine and dandy with Teh Gays being fucked over. Again.

Your posts on this are very disingenuous.

[Unvanguard]

67. That's correct: he supported banning same-sex marriage.

I'm not defending Tim Kaine's position, or his record on gay rights, which is terrible. What I'm saying is that he opposed the actual amendment at issue in this particular thread, which is true, and which is contrary to what you've been saying.

I have no idea what you mean by "He signed it." He may have signed a statutory ban, but I've never heard of constitutional amendments being brought before the governor for approval. Care to point me to a source?

[LostinVA]

69. Dear God, he signed it

Google it yourself. I am tired of people today saying I'm wrong or mistaken about the politics and history of my own state, and unaware of the laws that affect me.

Thanbks sooo much for telling me I'm correct about something I know way more about than you.

[Unvanguard]

73. I did. And I learned that you were wrong.

As I said, Tim Kaine's record on this issue is terrible--he did indeed oppose both same-sex marriage and civil unions, and he also said he would support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.

What he did not do was support this particular amendment, which, as you correctly noted in your OP, is uniquely cruel in the breadth of its effect. I pointed to a link explicitly backing up my view. You have responded with nothing except a repetition of your assertion. You have not even clarified what you mean by "he signed it"--an important question, given that I have now checked, and it appears that Virginia's constitution, like many others around the country, merely requires consecutive approval of constitutional amendments by the legislature before they are brought to a vote, not gubernatorial signature. (See here, Article XII--I used the cached version because the website doesn't seem to be working right now.)

People are wrong about "the politics and history" of their own states all the time, and about laws that affect them. That appeal, divorced from any actual evidence, does not substitute for an argument.

[LostinVA]

81. He signed it and he supported -- and supports a ban on marriage equality

JFC.

This fucking law affected and still sfafcets my life. Get.The.Fuck.Over.It.

[Unvanguard]

76. I have looked a bit more, and figured out the significance of "signing" in this context.

It is a symbolic sign of support with no legal effect. It is thus false to suggest that anyone actually "signs" constitutional amendments into law, but it is nonetheless true that it is a real issue despite its absence of legal effect, and I acknowledge that I was wrong about that.

Of course, that should not even come up, because ultimately Kaine's discomfort with the breadth of the constitutional amendment's language led him to refuse to sign it. He had said several months before that he would sign it, but he ultimately did not.

See also http://www.goodasyou.org/gay/2006/04/tim_kaine_wont_.html">Good As You, http://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog/2006/04/tim-kaine-will-not-sign-va-marriage.html">Pam's House Blend (note, importantly, that acknowledging this simple matter of fact does not by any means excuse Tim Kaine's generally terrible record on gay rights or his pathetic flip-floppy pandering on this issue earlier in his governorship.)

[LostinVA]

82. Exactly -- "It is a symbolic sign of support"

Try to exonerate Mr. DNC all you want, you can't. He is a bigot.

[Unvanguard]

101. Will you give it a rest? I'm not trying to "exonerate" him of bigotry.

I've said repeatedly that his record on this issue is terrible. But I think, at minimum, that you (and everyone else) should criticize him for his actual faults, not for things he didn't actually do. Attack him for failing to take a strong stand against this grotesque and vile amendment from the beginning; attack him for failing to support civil unions and same-sex adoption; attack him for not supporting same-sex marriage; attack him for failing as DNC Chair to do much of anything in support of the 2009 Maine effort to defeat Question 1. All of that is perfectly fair. I agree with all of those criticisms and think they reflect very poorly on Tim Kaine (though I am also willing to acknowledge that his words, at least, are nicer now than they were when he was running for governor.) My problem is with the inability to make distinctions between legitimate criticisms that are grounded in fact and illegitimate criticisms that are grounded in falsehood, not with criticism of Tim Kaine in general, much of which is perfectly fair.

Simply repeating your assertion over and over again is not evidence--or, at least, the only thing it's evidence of is your failure to provide support for your factual claim. Tim Kaine opposed this amendment. That is simple fact. He might have supported an alternatively-phrased same-sex marriage ban; certainly he said he would have while running for governor, and his opposition to this one was couched in terms of the breadth of his wording. Plainly he was no "fierce advocate" against it, and this is another in the long list of perfectly fair criticisms one could make of Tim Kaine on this issue. But it is simply unfair and wrong to suggest that he strongly supported an amendment he actually publicly opposed.

[VMI Dem]

102. What do you get out of arguing with someone that is affected by this amendment every fucking day?

Give it a fucking rest. That poster lives her life in our state as a fucking second class citizen. I wonder if you have any clue what that may be like? I don't. I think it probably sucks pretty goddamn bad.

[LostinVA]

105. I am just exhausted with this

It's bad enough IRL, let alone on here by keyboard warriors.

[Withywindle]

51. It's utterly repellent.

And people who still try to make the case for "let the states decide" and "civil unions" and appeasing bigots need to understand that THIS is what they are really supporting.

Some people work very hard to CHOOSE not to get it. Nothing progressive about that.

[LostinVA]

54. "Some people work very hard to CHOOSE not to get i"

:thumbsup:

[jonnyblitz]

53. that's pretty hateful. I had no idea about this and I am kind of

embarrassed about that. I need to get more current with all our issues.

[bigwillq]

58. I didn't know either, JB

:hi: :hug:

[LostinVA]

64. Tim Kaine, Head of the DNC, was FOR THIS AMENDMENT

He had some problems with language barring certain private contracts, but WAS FOR THE BANNING OF SAME SEX MARRIAGE. He OPPOSES marriage equality.

[Still Waters]

65. If you don't think it can get any worse, wait until 2013

I fully expect KooKooNelli to be the next Gov. of Virginia. And God help us.

[ohheckyeah]

66. I am

embarrassed to be from VA and to live in VA.

[Danger Mouse]

71. "Love thy neighbor"

Yet, this burning hatred...and that's what it is, hatred...comes so much from 'Christians' who wave the bible but can't be bothered to open it.

I'm sorry. I truly am. Until something is done on the national level, the bigotry will continue unabated.

[tblue37]

72. Yet conservatives claim to want to get government off people's backs.

If people want to enter into private contracts, they should be able to.

[theHandpuppet]

74. My partner and I lost our joint health benefits because of this law.

At the time Kaine signed this evil piece of crap into law, my partner's employer in northern VA had to end the joint health benefits we had been afforded for years. They did so reluctantly, I might add, and even though the parent company at that time was based in Pennsylvania. As I have MS, we simply cannot afford the private insurance policy I would need, even if I could get one now. And forget being hospitalized in Virginia, as my partner and I would have NO rights even to visit one another or make decisions, even though she has no living family and mine are hundreds of miles away.

We have moved from Virginia to West Virginia now, where at least we have some protections against the most extreme discrimination found in Virginia but my partner still commutes for work across the state line. Believe me, just crossing that border is enough to make you sweat with worry over what might happen should one of us be in an accident, get sick, etc. Now when we travel we avoid the Virginia highways as much as possible, going out of our way to find routes through Maryland or West Virginia in order to reach our destinations. On business she even lies out of Maryland rather than the closer airport at Dulles.

To anyone that thinks basic civil rights should EVER be sacrificed at the altar of politcal expediency, all I can say is, KISS MY GAY ASS. After nearly 20 years together my partner and I have found our basic human rights to actually have been eroded. We now have a Dem president and Dem Congress, and just where the hell has that gotten us? Where is that "fierce advocate" now?

Gay rights are HUMAN RIGHTS. Nothing less than federally mandated equality under the law will insure this. I am so sick and fucking tired of many posts I've read here recently, some even by members of the GLBT community, spewing the same tired litany of excuses and rationalizations one might expect from the Log Cabin Republicans.

FULL EQUALITY NOW!

And lastly, Virginia SUCKS!

[kevinbgoode]

77. I hate Virginia too. . .when that heinous amendment was passed

I stopped traveling there, refuse to buy anything in that state, and canceled one credit account with a company because it was headquartered there. There was no excuse for such an outrageous act of tyranny against American citizens.

And you are right - I'm sick and tired of cosmetic changes being instituted by "Democratic" administrations. It isn't rocket science to figure out that our constitutional rights are constantly violated. And no - we should not have to be patient and ask for our birthright and entitlement as American citizens. I could give a rat's behind about someone else's personnally selected "religious" beliefs that dictate how I'm supposed to give up my constitutional rights in order to placate their fuc*ing choices.

You can bet I've shut down more than one conservative whining about having their "pockets picked" for all the unemployed and welfare recepients by asking when the GOP is gonna give me a GAY tax break. Talk about having our pockets picked - we have to pay for the military, and yet have to play that asinine Don't Ask, Don't Tell game, have to finance welfare for conservative "religious" organizations so they can openly discriminate against us, have to finance family courts and divorce and countless hours and hours of legislative time spent on coming up with another thousand or so special rights laws for married heterosexuals only. If my taxes were based on the actual rights I have as an American, I'd be paying a helluva lot less to support my own oppressors.

[LostinVA]

79. Thank you for posting this

People kept on posting yesterday that this law wasn't enforced, even after I kept saying it was. LOst of folks lost health insurance, I know a couple who can no longer have a joint bank account, and you can no longer buy a house together as A COUPLE, ie with survivorship.

[theHandpuppet]

80. I'm gobsmacked that anyone would deny this law isn't being enforced

Those folks have no friggin' idea. Thank God my partner and I moved from VA and bought a home in WV before this hateful law was signed. Otherwise we'd have been up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

[LostinVA]

87. I know -- and it's pissing me off

So much of VA is blue or at least purple. It is bizarre to me that the freakazioids keep getting into power and introducing messed-up laws. Emily Couric wasn't perfect, but I wonder if the Dem Party in VA would be much stronger than it is now, if she had lived?

[dsc]

83. the hospital situation has been fixed thankfully

Obama's HHS department is making hospitals allow visitation.

[theHandpuppet]

84. That was certainly a step in the right direction

However, we don't trust the laws as they are applied in Virginia anymore and when we lived in NW Virginia, encountered too many doctors who made it quite clear they do not want patients who are GLBT. One specialist to whom my partner was referred even had virulently anti-gay tracts scattered all over his waiting room (not to mention the RW Christian "decorations" on the walls). Needless to say, she up and left but not before telling them exactly why. I encountered outright hostility and loud insults from another doctor at a VA hospital and when I mentioned this to my private physician, she was personally upset but explained that he was "very religious". Just what the hell does that mean? Is that ANY excuse? So it's not solely the hospitals we fear but the doctors who treat (or don't) at those hospitals. We have not encountered any problems like that since moving to WV.

I wonder how many people here have considered that a convicted, incarcerated MURDERER in Virginia has more marriage rights than the state's GLBT citizens?

[LostinVA]

88. Do you honestly think they will be respected?

Because, I don't.

And, in VA, I still doubt it could stop someone's "real" relative from having the hospital bar you. See, you can't legally be your partner's next-of-kin, so their next-of-kin will be legally allowed to direct their care, and greatly influence the visitors list, etc.

Without LEGALLY RECOGNITION of a relationship, the hospital visitation has no teeth.

[LostinVA]

86. This is definitely OP-worthy

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

91. I've made several posts about this the past few years

And it seems the more we remind folks that the continued lack of equality for GLBT Americans is devastating to real lives, the louder and more defensive some voices within the party have become. The GLBT community helped to deliver a Democratic President and Congress to this nation, so what's the excuse now?

Here's a post I made in 2006, nearly identical to the one I posted to this thread:
Posted by theHandpuppet in General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007)
Thu Jun 01st 2006, 11:21 AM
That's already happened to my partner
Her company (originally based in PA but with offices in other states) offered domestic partner benefits, including health benefits which were sorely needed. For several years we had those health benefits and other rights so many straight couples take for granted. But when Virginia (yeah, that state where MARK WARNER was governor) passed some of the most gay-hating legislation in the U.S., we lost our joint health benefits. No company in Virginia can offer domestic partner benefits, even if that company voluntarily offers them or is headquartered in another state. The company she works for was not happy about being forced to void our benefits after so many years.

This loss has been devastating to this partnership of some 15 years. No insurance company will offer reasonably priced health insurance to someone with MS (as I have) so as of today, June 1st, I am among the millions of Americans without health insurance.

Thank you, straight America. Does your marriage feel safer now?

And this post I made last year is just as relevant now. How many times are we going to fall for the same old shit?

Is the GLBT community in an abusive relationship with the Democratic Party?

You may be in an abusive relationship if:

-- Your partner tries to control you by being very bossy or demanding.

-- Claims you are responsible for his or her emotional state.

-- Blames you when he or she mistreats you.

-- Has a history of bad relationships.

-- Your family and friends have warned you about the person or told you that they are concerned for your safety or emotional well being.

-- You frequently worry about how he or she will react to things you say or do.

-- Makes "jokes" that shame, humiliate, demean or embarrass you, whether privately or around family and friends.

-- Rages when they feel hurt, shame, fear or loss of control.

-- You leave and then return to your partner repeatedly, against the advice of your friends, family and loved ones.

-- You have trouble ending the relationship, even though you know inside it's the right thing to do.

The above list of warning signs was borrowed from this site: http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusiv...

There are many types of abusive and dependent relationships and though some may consider this a poor analogy, I have wondered for some time now whether the GLBT community is engaged in a type of abusive relationship with the Democratic Party. How many times do we have to be humiliated, shoved aside, made promises that things will get better or that they will change, bear the brunt of rage/accusations when we threaten to leave, made to feel powerless, or blamed for our own victimization? Just when are the roses and promises to change not enough anymore? Will we keep going back time and again, willing to accept the humiliation and abuse because we've been told no one else would love us as they do?

Just some food for thought this morning. I've been mulling over the nature of this sad relationship for years now and I'm sorry to say it's getting mighty hard to defend why we stay.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danger Mouse]

90. That's just awful. How can people be so cruel?

I just don't understand bigotry. :(

[AspenRose]

92. That is unconscionable and unacceptable

:-(

[theHandpuppet]

94. The fact that there are ppl unrecommending this thread speaks volumes

It certainly explains why the voices of so many champions of equality are no longer heard here on DU.

[LostinVA]

96. I just posted something about that, too

It's nothing but a big SCREW YOU to GLBT rights, and GLBT posters. You know, those of us on "The Fringe" who want equal rights and won't STFU about wanting them.

[LostinVA]

95. Honest question: why would someone unrec this?

The Op isn't the least bit flamey, it's just an example of how bad civil rights are for GLBT Americans.

So why unrec?

:shrug:

[VMI Dem]

97. They probably voted for it.

Or wish they could have.

[LostinVA]

98. I just laughed when I read this

Scornfully.

[VMI Dem]

99. Sad that this has happened in our state. Not surprising.

But sad.

[LostinVA]

100. Lots of good folks here, too

Which makes it even more perplexing.

[Jax]

103. k&r

[mkultra]

107. wow. So now gays have no right to enter a private contract?