I'm on the left, I don't do illegal drugs and I don't think the President is like George Bush

[NJmaverick]

so I have no problem with Robert Gibbs

[EFerrari]

1. To the left of what?

[spoony]

5. The Eastern Hemisphere on most maps, I'm guessing. nt

[asdjrocky]

43. LOL!

Rick Warren?

[Ignis]

No, no...it's not "to" the left, it's "on" the left.

And frankly, it's getting hard to breathe down here.

[jgraz]

109. I actually said that out loud when I saw the OP.

:rofl:

[donco6]

115. Truly laughable.

"Left" . . . bwahahaha!

[TheWatcher]

128. Lenin.

:rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

134. wall street.

:eyes:

[provis99]

2. if you are on the left, you equate Obama with Bush and do drugs.

That was Gibbs' point.

[tridim]

3. Nope, that is pure spin.

[LooseWilly]

92. Technically, it is logic.

Just saying.

[tridim]

93. Twisted logic.

[PBS Poll-435]

4. I think you actually missed "the point"

[NJmaverick]

8. The point that the critics didn't like to be the target of criticism?

[PBS Poll-435]

14. That is definitely one way to put it.

If I were Gibbs, I would have been even more abrasive.

Spending so much time and energy fucking up the President's approval rating and the country's opinion of the Democratic Party with fucking stupid, constant, and incorrect nagging is not the appropriate thing to do 3 months before an election.

[EFerrari]

16. But attacking the base is?

Um, no.

When your stockholders are unhappy, you don't attack them in the press unless you're a drug addled "retard". You find a way to make peace with them.

[PBS Poll-435]

19. I think that believing that Gibbs' comments were directed at "Teh Base"

Rather than well-financed pseudo-Democratic folks is naive and strange.



Three words - Cat Food Commission

[EFerrari]

26. People wouldn't be so upset if this was just the first time

or a misstep.

And while I agree with you that the opposition is always, always looking for a way to drive a wedge, the administration has never been above bashing the left to siphon votes away from the right - center.

It's not a good strategy. It won't work and it is corrosive to our coalition.

[PBS Poll-435]

30. I think is proper and appropriate to confront your critics

Especially when they are claiming to be Democrats, progressive, etc and actively working against getting this country back on track.

[EFerrari]

45. So, let me get this straight.

It's not appropriate for Democrats to criticize the president here at DU but it is appropriate for Gibbs, not to confront his critics because he wasn't talking to them, but to bad mouth Democratic voters in the press?

Well, no, it wasn't. You don't do your laundry out in the street. That's simply self-destructive.

[PBS Poll-435]

49. Fair criticism is fine in any arena or forum. Gibbs was speaking out about the bullshit

That is being supplied in largess.


And I have a very difficult time believing that the "Democratic voters" that you speak of are actually voters who cast a ballot for Democrats.

[EFerrari]

59. Attacking Democratic voters in the press is not the best way to win them over.

And I'm sorry about your crisis of faith. But the evidence is all around you, up to and including me and I've only ever voted for Democrats in national elections. For state seats, too, for that matter.

And that's Chapter Two. After the fake poll numbers, to say that dissenting Democrats are not the base and not Democrats. It's not useful and only creates bad feeling.

[PBS Poll-435]

62. We aren't going to get anywhere on this trajectory. New Question...

How would you confront unfair, inflammatory, and absurd criticism from the White House Press Room?

[EFerrari]

94. It is a politician's job not to react but to respond.

You learn that in Mass Com 1A.

[PBS Poll-435]

95. Didn't say "react" I said confront. And Gibbs is not a politician. He is a spokesperson.

[LoZoccolo]

20. 85% of liberals approve of Obama; the other 15%, some of which equate him with Bush*

like to think they are, but they are not. The base, by definition, is the most reliable voting segment. The most reliable voting segment would not be comparing him with Bush*.

[NJmaverick]

28. He is most definitely is not attacking his base

he is attacking his unreasonable critics, BIG DIFFERENCE

[EFerrari]

35. Right. I've only ever voted for Democrats in national elections.

I've worked every one of them in some way for the last 30 years. I started walking precincts with my mom before Gibbs or Obama had control of their bowels.

I donated, phone banked and even wrote opeds for the president.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_080415_to_small_town_pennsy.htm

How am I not his base? And as I am obviously in his base, how does insulting me and my views in the media going to help us keep the House?

[NJmaverick]

37. 85% of liberals support the President and approve of his actions

THAT is their base, not the other 15%

[EFerrari]

39. Several of you are spamming DU with that number.

I hope it makes *you* feel better.

[NJmaverick]

44. Spamming you say, like jumping in all over the place in other people's conversations?

or simply answering incorrect assertions with the facts?

[EFerrari]

47. Wait, are you stalking me, NJ?

And when you're called on that bs number, you deflect? Okey dokey. :)

[NJmaverick]

48. Well you are the one accusing people of spamming and stalking

their own thread. Perhaps you need to examine your own actions before calling out others.

[EFerrari]

54. That poll number has been plastered all over DU today.

So I'm not accusing as much as much as observing. In fact, another DUer just fronted it to me on another thread.

lol

And you interrupted my conversation with another poster. Maybe you should just go examine yourself. :)

[Raineyb]

65. Spamming like constantly repeating the same number you pulled out of your

ass.

You live in a fact-free zone.

[LoZoccolo]

70. Actually, one number says 85% and another says

90%

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/08/10/liberals_still_overwhelmingly_back_obama.html
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/us_national_survey_pew_72185.php

[PBS Poll-435]

71. Latest cross-tabbed Gallup 80% All Democrats, 82% Liberal Democrats

79% Moderate Democrats

75% Conservative Democrats.



82% - Liberal Democrats is the highest group that approves of the President other than Blacks.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

[NJmaverick]

73. lol, so much for a fact free zone

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

79. 1) There are a few different polls. 2) 3% lol. n/t

[Raineyb]

81. 8%. Not exactly a small number. Unless you're as math challenged as you seem to be. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

89. Let's start over: what do you say the approval rating amongst liberals is.

Gallup has it at 82% according to the PBS guy. 85% - 82% = 3% I think.

[Raineyb]

75. And the questions were? Just posting the numbers don't prove squat.

Putting that aside, the numbers for liberals overall is only 72% So as the 80% number that NJ Maverick pulled out of his ass is in fact a number he pulled out of his ass, assuming that the poll was a good one and not skewed which I can't determine from what I saw on the site.

[NJmaverick]

77. True, Pew has that number at 90%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8917753

Guess I owe you an apology for short changing 5% of liberals

[PBS Poll-435]

78. The other polls posted (with links!) show that Gallup is actually on the low side...

:hi:

[Raineyb]

82. I posted BASED on you link. Do you not read what the hell you link to? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

84. Be nice...

:hi:

[SidDithers]

31. Holy logic fail, Batman...nt

Sid

[LoZoccolo]

6. POSTING IN EPIC THREAD!

:kick:

[Touchdown]

7. If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid of a cavity search.

:crazy:

[derby378]

9. I do have a problem with Gibbs - for attacking liberal Democrats as far back in 2004

The ad slowly moved in on a Time Magazine cover featuring bin Laden, zooming in on a close-up of Osama's eyes, while saying that Howard Dean was an unqualified Democratic candidate because of his lack of military or foreign experience.

Tricia Enright, who was the spokeswoman for Howard Dean at the time, summed the ad up best, saying: "Whoever is behind this should crawl out from underneath their rock and have the courage to say who they are." But Robert Gibbs, who was the spokesman for the group, embraced the slime ad against Dean, and refused to say who had funded the ad. Now sure, you can say that Gibbs was just doing his job. But Gibbs wasn't just aligned with the group, he was in the leadership. The group took seed money from crooked former Senator Robert Torricelli to get off the ground, and then went out and raised over a million to run the ad. Gibbs was one of three people that made that ad happen.

http://mydd.com/2007/2/22/robert-gibbs-the-drag-on-obama

Gibbs is in bed with those that tried to kill off the Democratic left. He just didn't want you to know that.

Hails and props to madfloridian for unearthing this inconvenient truth.

[JonLP24]

11. [phone]

I will never forget that.

[alsame]

13. Wow, I never knew about that. Thanks to you and madfloridian. nt

[NJmaverick]

15. So you have a problem with every Democrat that, since they all attack each other

during primaries.

[derby378]

24. ???

It was a stealth campaign against Dean. Gibbs and company took great pains to conceal their identity until it was too late.

There were forces in the Democratic inner circle who resented Dean's presence and did everything they could to marginalize him.

[NJmaverick]

87. You point is that he was wrong for attacking a fellow dem, yet they all do it

during the primaries.

[derby378]

96. You're oversimplifying

Consider the nature of the ad that Gibbs ran against Dean. It's a Bush-style ad.

[NJmaverick]

124. please, he is not the first Dem to play dirty and certainly not the last

[laughingliberal]

23. Well, that explains a lot. Thanks. nt

[earth mom]

10. Of course you don't have a problem with Gibbs.

:eyes:

You call that being on the left?! :rofl:

[NJmaverick]

12. You seem to think being on the left means never supporting anything or anyone

you are badly mistaken in my estimation.

[EFerrari]

17. Nope. That's your gross projection. n/t

[NJmaverick]

21. Nope, more like an observation

Note the use of the coma after "nope"

[Raineyb]

68. Apparently some people think being left means you have to crawl up the ass of the

Democratic party no matter what they do. Thinking for oneself is for the dirty fucking drug addled hippies I guess.

:shrug:

[Scurrilous]

18. Yep.

:thumbsup:

[zipplewrath]

22. Of course not

Because you also agree with him.

[robdogbucky]

25. "I don't do illegal drugs"

I always knew there was something odd about you

[NJmaverick]

27. I find it tends to keep one's mind clear

:hi:

[TheWatcher]

130. Well, it's clearly been a failure, so why not experiment a little?

You have nothing to lose.

:rofl:

[Marr]

29. Fine-- don't complain about low voter turnout.

If you have no problem with a man in Gibb's position saying what he said, then you should be comfortable with the inevitable consequences of such a position.

[NJmaverick]

32. Don't complain when the Republicans reap the benefits of those

unreasonable, over the top and destructive criticism made by the "professional left" and get another shot at destroying our nation.

[Marr]

102. What are you talking about?

I'm not saying that *I* am not voting. I'm saying that the position you're supporting is one that will isolate others, or at least, make them less inclined to do more than just vote.

The attitude you're supporting here is what will enable a Republican comeback.

[NJmaverick]

121. I am talking about how the Professional left's over the top, unfair and destructive

criticism is only serving to aid the Republicans in their efforts to regain control of our government.

[progressoid]

33. What, no recs for this?

go figure.

[JonLP24]

36. Forgot to 'unrec'

Just did.

[NJmaverick]

38. I don't care what the ghost reccers do or don't do

I am simply voicing my opinion

[JonLP24]

42. Which is why

you constantly request that the unrec/rec to become a donor feature like that is going to make any difference when it comes to the threads you start.

[NJmaverick]

46. Yup, make the rec/unrec function a one person one vote

end the freepers and disruptors and those with out a vested interest in seeing DU do well from skewing the results.

[JonLP24]

51. We have the alert function

for freepers and trolls. As far as I know it is a one person, one vote. I could only 'unrec' this thread once.

[NJmaverick]

56. that doesn't help if the freeper or troll simply stays quiet

and just recs and unrecs

[Raineyb]

80. There's nothing that obligates anyone to comment when they rec or unrec

so your comment is just stupid.

[NJmaverick]

125. You failed to understand my point

[Raineyb]

129. You can only rec or unrec once. So your point is still an asinine one.

You don't seem to understand the mechanics of what you're complaining about.

[NJmaverick]

132. Your rather inflammatory comments aside, you fail to understand

that it doesn't prevent freepers from holding accounts and voting or sock puppet accounts from voting.

[progressoid]

63. That's a poor choice for an analogy.

When I vote, I do so anonymously. Perhaps you need a different analogy.

[NJmaverick]

72. Nope, they do make sure you are registered to vote and that you only vote once

so it's a perfect analogy.

[progressoid]

103. Uh, yeah.

Isn't that how it works here too? You have to be a registered member to vote right? And vote just once as well.
In fact, new members aren't even allowed to vote immediately if I remember correctly.

[Ignis]

74. "ghost reccers"

:rofl:

Man, that just never gets any less amusing.

[TBF]

34. Good luck with that election. nt

[PBS Poll-435]

40. What election? You are going to vote against the Democrats this fall or not vote

Because the White House Press Secretary believes that there is very unfair and disingenuous criticism coming from a few choice folks?


Do what you have to do.

[NJmaverick]

41. If the "professional left" was worried about the election they would NEVER

have engaged in the unfair, over the top and destructive citicism that is their hallmark.

[hobbit709]

50. I don't think he's anything like Bush.

What I don't like is his continuing of some of Bush's policies.
You know, minor little things like Gitmo, rendition, assassination, Iraq, Afghanistan, provisions of the Enabling Act II.

[NJmaverick]

52. Yet he ordered Gitmo closed, is shutting down Iraq and ended rendition

which certainly creates some questions about your criticism

[hobbit709]

57. Closed when? How many troops are staying in Iraq?

And we still don't know who is being held where and what for.

[NJmaverick]

60. So if troops stay the war isn't over. I guess a lot of people were fooled by the end of WW2 then

[hobbit709]

64. I didn't know the Germans are still shooting at us.

[JonLP24]

67. What is he going to do with GITMO detainees?

Probably ship them off to Bagram where they can't challenge their detentions in US courts.

Some background. Judge ruled that Bagram detainees can use habeas corpus to challenge their detention

Foreign detainees 'have US right'

A US judge has ruled that foreign suspects held by the US in Afghanistan have the right to challenge their detention in US civilian courts.

Judge John Bates denied the motion by the US government to withhold the right to three detainees at Bagram air base.

The US Supreme Court ruled last year that detainees at Guantanamo had such a right. The justice department later said those held at Bagram did not.

Judge Bates said the cases were essentially the same.

The three detainees have been held at the US military prison at Bagram for at least six years after having been captured outside Afghanistan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7979885.stm

What does the Obama Admistration do? APPEAL!!!!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112861671

He "wins"!!!
Detainees Barred From Access to U.S. Courts

WASHINGTON — A federal appeals court ruled Friday that three men who had been detained by the United States military for years without trial in Afghanistan had no recourse to American courts. The decision was a broad victory for the Obama administration in its efforts to hold terrorism suspects overseas for indefinite periods without judicial oversight.

The detainees, two Yemenis and a Tunisian who say they were captured outside Afghanistan, contend that they are not terrorists and are being mistakenly imprisoned at the American military prison at Bagram Air Base.

But a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled unanimously that the three had no right to habeas corpus hearings, in which judges would review evidence against them and could order their release. The court reasoned that Bagram was on the sovereign territory of another government and emphasized the “pragmatic obstacles” of giving hearings to detainees “in an active theater of war.”

The ruling dealt a severe blow to wider efforts by lawyers to extend a landmark 2008 Supreme Court ruling granting habeas corpus rights to prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. A lower court judge had previously ruled that the three Bagram detainees were entitled to the same rights, although he had found that others captured in Afghanistan and held there were not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/22/world/asia/22detain.html?_r=1

Oh and renditions aren't over.

[EFerrari]

91. Well, no. Gitmo is open, our combat troops are being renamed

and he absolutely did not end rendition. His CIA director Panetta said it was a tool he would use. For a bonus, he also has black sites in Afghanistan.

Wrong.

[Romulox]

53. Another "I'm a big boy!" post.

"I'm on the left"

[Romulox]

55. PS: All the drugs I do are LEGAL.

Bet that just burns you up to know, too! :hi:

[NJmaverick]

58. Why would I care one way or the other?

:shrug:

[Romulox]

61. Because it's a direct reference to your very own OP?

Do try to keep up! :hi:

[NJmaverick]

66. Well turns out your are wrong both in assertion and assumption

then

[Romulox]

69. Now you're boring me. Say something else "controversial", plz!

Also, please be sure to remind everyone that you are "on the left" while doing so. Thanks a lot!

[thewiseguy]

83. This thread is an absolute waste

[PBS Poll-435]

85. Waist!

Hugh!

[bigtree]

86. good one

NJMaverick on the left :rofl:

[JonLP24]

88. !

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

90. To clarify I am with the 90% not the 10%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8917753

[Forkboy]

101. The majority thought the Irag war was a good thing, and that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Good company.....

Why do you hate America?

[NJmaverick]

107. The majority also thought Bush did a terrible job

what's your point?

[Forkboy]

110. My point depends on much you look to the majority for guidance?

[NJmaverick]

111. I don't look to them for guidance, but I find it funny that the 10% is trying to knock the 90

[Forkboy]

114. Well it can't be both.

[TheKentuckian]

97. Of an 80's South American puppet dictator and Greenland if you're facing the map

[joeybee12]

98. the point is here...and you are...

...somewhere in Outer Mongolia...on other words, you have yet again missed the point.

[Barack2theFuture]

99. "on the left" of what?

[NJmaverick]

106. The 90%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8917753

[Forkboy]

100. High quality flypaper.

Hats off to you for the attempt.

[NJmaverick]

108. What is this "flypaper" reference?

who are the flies? what is the glue?

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

105. Yup, I am part of the 90%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8917753

[Odin2005]

116. The labels are meaningless.

Most people don't think very deeply about the those labels and treat them as they would sides of a football game.

[NJmaverick]

120. Yet you feel the need to deny people their own labels, why is that?

[Odin2005]

122. Any political poll based on "self-identification" rather than actual policy positions is crap.

[NJmaverick]

123. So it seems your problem is that you want to decide how people are labeled

let me know how that works out

[Odin2005]

126. Labels used in polls like this sould be based on objective policy positions.

many people call themselves "liberal" or "conservative" out of pure habit and team feeling, not because of actual policy positions.

[NJmaverick]

127. The flaw in your reasoning is two fold. First there is no official "liberal position"

so the idea that definition still makes the labels subjective. Secondly people all vary and few will fit neatly in the boxes you wish to create for them.

[philly_bob]

112. How do you rate Gibbs' political skill and effectiveness as spokesman?

He just pulled what may be the dumbest political move of the decade -- insulting a constituency before an election -- and you "have no problem?"

[NJmaverick]

118. Considering the destructive activities of the "professional left"

I see he had little choice but to call them out.

[philly_bob]

136. You believe Gibbs "had little choice" but to make comments?

His "professional left" comments angered many liberals who object to one or another of Obama's policies. He's talking about me, they thought. Gibbs may have meant to object to the actions of hundreds of "professional leftists" but he ended up angering hundred of thousands of ordinary voters.

I think as time passes, Gibbs' statement will go down in history as one of the great gaffes of Obama's presidency, alienating his constituency just before an election.

[Gormy Cuss]

113. I'm on the left, I don't do illegal drugs and I don't think the President is like George Bush

and I think Gibbs should be fired.

[OmahaBlueDog]

117. Even if you have no problem with the comment per se, it's a brain dead thing for the PS to say

Your Press Secretary is the key PR outlet. Why would you think it's ever good to attack part of your base and a key to getting re-elected?

..of course, why would you close a base with 5,000 jobs in Virginia, a state that's a key to getting re-elected

..why would you have an Education Secretary who pisses off the NEA, a huge union that as a key support bloc and is absolutely essential to getting re-elected

The WH has the best of intentions, but it needs some more political savvy... and I'd argue a new Chief of Staff.

[NJmaverick]

119. The 10% of liberals who don't approve the the President (according to the latest Pew Poll)

have engaged in unfair, over the top and destructive criticism of both the President and the Dems in Congress. It has gotten so bad Gibbs had little choice but to speak up.

[OmahaBlueDog]

135. He had a choice

This would be roughly the equivalent of Ari Fleischer calling strident anti-abortion protesters "wack jobs." It's something a smart politician doesn't do. I don't think there's a President in history who loved everyone who elected him, but you have to act as if you do - you have to act as if you care very deeply. Gibbs should limit his public outrage to critics we know didn't vote for the President, like Rush Limbaugh.

My issues with Gibbs go beyond this, however. From my POV, the Press Secretary in a modern White House has to be the Propaganda Minister. Despite the fact that the administration reaches out by e-mail, Twitter, Facebook, Whitehouse.gov, and BarackObama.com, it seems they often can't make basic selling points for their plans clear enough for a third grader to understand (which is what one has to do these days).

Obama needs a progressive version of Tony Snow. Someone who looks good in front of the camera, is virtually gaffe-proof, and can communicate in sound bites.

[krabigirl]

131. what about legal drugs?

[HipChick]

133. I have no problem with Robert Gibbs..

In fact I fully understand his frustrations...