I will NOT let DU become "Green Party Underground".

[johnaries]

Just to let everyone know - I think that constructive criticism is good. But, with upcoming elections coming there are some that would choose to divide us.

Although I have nothing against the Green Party or other "Progressive parties" in theory, any vote for them results in a vote for the Republican Party.

There are many here that will paint that as "fear tactics". But it is reality, no matter how much they try to hide their heads in the sand.

I support as many voices as possible during the primaries.

BUT

when it comes to casting that final vote - don't throw away your vote and enable the opposition to win. You and the rest of us will suffer the consequences. At least consider the rest of us and what will happen to the rest of us, while you are agonizing over your vote.

[ibegurpard]

1. wake up

It's not Green Party activists who are pissed.
Perhaps you should start questioning why.

[pnwmom]

48. Green party activists have always been trying to peel off Democratic party members.

And it's obvious why.

[nosmokes]

81. Funny, the Greens never recruited me, the Dems abandoned me.

Recall the overwhelming majority of Dems voting to invade Iraq? That was the sixth or seventh straw breaking this camel's spine.

[Catherina]

136. +1 n/t

[hfojvt]

143. the overwhelming what?

Actually, my memory serves electronically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution#Passage

House - 82 for - 126 against - 39% for
Senate - 29 for -21 against - 58% for
total - 111 for - 147 against - 43% for
total counting each Senate vote as 3X each house vote 169 for - 189 against - 47% for

Even if you just look at the Senate 58% is hardly an OVER-whelming majority.

I think you need to find a different excuse to help Republicans win.

[pnwmom]

152. The Democrats did NOT vote to give Bush a free hand. They knew they were about

to lose their majority, and so they voted for an Iraq war plan that they thought would restrict Bush by putting conditions on starting a war. If that war resolution hadn't been passed in October, the Republicans were poised to pass their own in January -- and their's would give Bush a complete blank check. Bush was lying about having evidence of Iraq's involvement in 911, but the Democrats didn't know that at the time. They also didn't know that Bush would ignore the conditions in the war resolution and invade Iraq without ever finding any WMD's.

But remembering history seems to be too difficult for many people these days.

[leeroysphitz]

207. OMG. N/T

[Raineyb]

227. Even worse, they were too cowardly to vote their conscience because they were

afraid that if they opposed Bush the Republicans would use their votes against them. And what happened? They capitulated and the Republicans STILL did everything in their power to make sure Democrats lose seats.

It's a really pathetic excuse you're coming up with that "Oh Democrats knew they were going to lose their majority so they voted for a war they didn't really believe in order to mitigate the losses" Do you get how fucking disgusting, and pathetic that line of reasoning is? And you wonder why Greens can pick up registered Democrats? You just showed a rather disgusting example of why it happens.

Do you really think that line of bull is acceptable to anyone who actually gives a damn about the lives of those who are involved? You don't vote for war just to mitigate political losses that's what cowards and scumbags do!

[leeroysphitz]

257. +3950

[leeroysphitz]

258. +3950

[pnwmom]

289. That isn't what I said. This wasn't about them mitigating THEIR losses. This was about

the fact that they knew that the Republicans would have a majority in January and could pass any damn Iraq War resolution they liked. So a few Democrats joined with the Republicans in October to preempt this by passing a war resolution that had some conditions. For one thing, it didn't allow Bush to start a war in Iran, too -- something the Republicans had wanted.

[readmoreoften]

159. +1

[Naturyl]

160. +1

[mdmc]

173. 1

[POAS]

174. so your now a Green? n/t

[LostinVA]

184. Who cares if the poster is or isn't???

[POAS]

279. I'm sorry

that you took offense when obviously none was intended. I simply wasn't aware that asking if one is a Green is considered rude.

[Tailormyst]

237. So what if they are?

[POAS]

280. Please see post

#279

[LostinVA]

183. +1

[DailyGrind51]

232. Thank you! "Democratic" is the platform not the Party, which has become more DLC than "you and me"!

[defendandprotect]

315. What if we ran a thread that said: "I will NOT let DU become "DLC-corporate Underground" --- ???

Do you think it would still be up?

Or not found "inflammatory" . . . ????


I will NOT let DU become "Green Party Underground".







:evilgrin:

[treestar]

262. Then don't be here if you don't support Democratic Candidates

If you talk in terms of a political party "abandoning" you, then you expect it to do your will. A party is the opposite of that - you can't be in one, even the Greens, without there being many things it stands that represent the other members of it.

[defendandprotect]

317. No -- Pelosi '06, on video - "Democrats were elected to END THE WAR!" . . . and . . .

then they proceeded to finance the war for the next FOUR YEARS --!!!

THAT, unfortunately, is being abandoned by your party --

What you're talking about here . . .

"without there being many things it stands that represent the other members of it."

presumably, is TOLERATING the opinions of other Democrats --

but it doesn't seem that YOU really want to do that -- ?


"Your country -- love it or leave it!" ?

Doesn't play -- never did --

[treestar]

326. Funding it while it is being drawn down is fine

why have they "abandoned" you.

I could say they "abandoned" me if I were going to be that strained to be a victim, yet I just realize that I can't get everything I want from a political party. The Greens would "abandon me" too.

[defendandprotect]

337. "Being drawn down" . . . ??? Where . . . ?? Democrats have attempted to get

specific legislation passed re an end to these wars --

Numbers are changing in Congress -- and don't see Obama celebrating that --

Nor do I hear much about "peace" coming from Obama's mouth --


And, in your Phyllis Schafly-type contortions of reason, let me make clear to you that

that the "you want everything, ponies, miracles, chess games, Superman" garbage is over --

But let me assure you that Obama's hurdle jumping over the Congress to establish a

"Cat Food Commission" by an Executive Order all on his own doing to destroy Social Security and

Medicare WILL CERTAINLY MAKE 'VICTIMS' OF MANY AMERICANS . . .



:nuke:










Funding it while it is being drawn down is fine
Posted by treestar
why have they "abandoned" you.

I could say they "abandoned" me if I were going to be that strained to be a victim, yet I just realize that I can't get everything I want from a political party. The Greens would "abandon me" too.

[treestar]

346. The War in Iraq is ending

That is not up for argument.

[bobthedrummer]

272. Yep. There it is. Abandonment decades ago and the rise of the corporist DLC. n/t

[defendandprotect]

309. Bill Clinton and Al Gore had a lot to do creating the DLC -- corporate wing . . .

and it's up to us to get rid of it -- !!

And, btw, Hillary Clinton is still part of DLC leadership --

Recall that Obama distanced himself from the DLC -- in denial that he was

corporatist -- but the evidence since the election seems to suggest otherwise, i.e.,

that he is corporate.

[NorthCarolina]

314. Well, Obama never said he wasn't DLC exactly...

what he did say is that he never requested to be added to their publicly available membership list (list no longer posted), and then added that he is a "New Democrat". Well, head on over to the DLC website, or look up New Democrat on Wikipedia, and you will quickly see that "New Democrat" is synonymous with "DLC". Basically, it was a bit of a snow job on Obama's part, but in his defense he was trying to get elected at the time, and it is pretty common knowledge that the DLC SOP is to campaign left and govern right.

[defendandprotect]

316. Had I known he even admitted to being a "New Democrat" ... I would NOT have voted for him ...

Interesting that they well undertood DLC should be hidden -- !!


You would think that Democrats would have figured out by now that DLC is corporate

poison -- and that the candidates we need to put in office are those the elites and

MSM attack --

Elites wanted Clinton over Jerry Brown --

they got it -- inside battles were harsh --

No one wanted Kerry pre-primaries he was like .03% favorable -- whoops!

he was suddenly THE candidate --

Look at what they did to Dean -- you could figure we could at least all get behind him?

Obama raised enough on the internet -- which Howard Dean began -- NOT to have to turn to

corporations -- but he did!

So -- IMO, that was pre-set --

[tabasco]

312. Either your history is a bit shady or you are a liar.

A majority of Dems in the House and Senate combined voted against the invasion.

[RainDog]

349. me neither

I offered to vote swap for any green in Florida that wanted to get Nader on the ballot in 2000 so that he could qualify for candidate perks - but I ended up voting for Gore anyway. I was trying to help the greens without hurting the dems b/c my vote didn't matter in my state - which is another fucking issues again entirely - that my vote for prez doesn't matter b/c of the antiquated electoral college.

BUT -

this claim is hysterically funny. the conservadems are so paranoid and so unwilling to look at the effects of their politicians and the party's actions that they're trying to blame greens for the disenfranchisement THEY have created by throwing women's rights, the gblt community, the health care bill, etc. over for corporate and religious assholes.

it also allows them to pretend that they're "center" instead of far, far to the right of the Democratic party base in this nation.

[Jakes Progress]

351. ++++++

[Hannah Bell]

161. they have? and it's obvious why? please elucidate.

[Raineyb]

226. And you make it very easy to do so by spitting on members of your own base.

Hard to get mad at the Greens for trying to do that which the Democratic party has given up on in return for corporate money.

[defendandprotect]

307. No -- the Democratic Party has infiltrated and co-opted the Green Party . . ..

Isn't that what you would do if you were the Dems?

[defendandprotect]

318. Obama's "Cat Food Commission" wasn't a Green Party invention -- !!!

It was 1000% Obama --

Senate voted it down --

Obama did it with Executive Order --

Gee -- Bush could have done that . . . couldn't he?

[villager]

2. Yes, Rahm

Meanwhile, how's the expanding warrantless searching going, along with Geithner running the "Consumer" "Protection" agency?

Any other news items I missed today in the "swallow this bullshit -- or else!" category...?

[johnaries]

42. How about a dose of TRUTH?

What did Rahm actually say? His statements have been "spun" here with Rovian techmiques. Did Rahm call Liberals "fucking retarded"? No, he didn't. Google it. In the Health Care debate, he said to "ignore Progresives" because he gave them too much credit, thinking that they would be on board in order to pass more improtant legislation.

If anything, he was guilty of giving the Left too much credit for intelligence.

Don't blame him for your own stupidity.

Again, Google it.

[villager]

46. Not what I was referring to, but why stop a good shitfit?

You're free to make Rahm out to be this Administration's leading "Progressive voice," however.

Oh wait! He "has a plan!"

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[villager]

112. Yours, you mean, with the hysteria, the feint-and-parry rhetorical theatrics, etc?

n/t

[laughingliberal]

74. Here it is:

According to a report Tuesday in the Wall Street Journal, Emanuel told a liberal strategy group in August that a plan to run advertisements against conservative Democrats who were "balking at Mr. Obama's health-care overhaul" was grossly unwise.

"F—ing retarded," Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to participants cited by the paper.

"He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items," the reporter said.

http://rawstory.com/2010/01/fire-obamas-chief-staff-calls-liberal-strategy-fucking-retarded/

He said it in response to ads we were running to pressure Ben Nelson, et al to support a public option. I saw Ben on Ed when it was going on and it was having an effect. Public support for the PO was soaring and Ben was feeling the heat in his district. Rahm did not want the public option and the Blue Dogs were the cover.. BTW, Ben is still obstructing all things progressive so pulling our ads didn't seem to make him more cooperative.

[johnaries]

94. That's not a very good report, but even so it's obvious that

Rahm is not calling anyone "f-ing retarded" but that he is referring to the plan itself as "f-cking retarded".

"He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items," the reporter said.

He was obviously criticizing the plan, not the people. Only the most "sensitive" people would take it personally. And if they are that "sensitive", then their judgment is automatically suspect, in my book.

Regardless, he never called Progressives "f-cking retarded" and to claim that he did is just as bad as Breitbart claiming Sherrod is a Racist.

Truth hurts.

[laughingliberal]

108. Regardless, he insulted us. We were getting the job done on the PO & he was desperate to stop it.

Yeah, I take it personally. I sent money we didn't really have because a public option was vital to preserving any real reform of our health care system. It was the only piece (or sliver) that had a chance of keeping premium costs within reach for many of us. Rahm felt campaign contributions trumped the good of the 'small people.' And his Blue Dogs are just as obstructionist as they ever were.

Pulled our ads on orders from Rahm so we could gain the votes of his conservadems who are still not voting with us in the future? Whose plan was 'fucking retarded?' No public option and no cooperation from them, yet.

[Naturyl]

163. What do you want from a Jooooooo-mla user?

[Occulus]

145. "he is referring to the plan itself as 'f-cking retarded'"

You're defending this?

Really?

[nosmokes]

148. Right. I'm not calling you retarded, just your thoughts, ideas, and the way you express them.

Oh yeah, and the way you look, smell, walk, talk and dress is pretty fucking retarded too.but hey, tain't personal. gimme a fucking break. Emmanuel is an asshole and the fact that Obama still has him in such a position of power this far into his presidency is, to me, a signal of a lack of self confidence. Rahm just has too many liabilities(at least in public) to warrant his power and position.Unless he gives a super mean blowjob or sumpin. It don't make any sense.

[mdmc]

175. At least you admit

if someone call this thread (insert Rhams name calling at progressives here) it would also be a negative comment about you, the creator of the thread.

[Javaman]

204. wrong spot. nt

[Raineyb]

230. I don't care how you parse it. Rahm insulted part of the party but of course

he'll be expecting that same group to support whoever he decides to shove at them in November. That is not how you treat party members and expect to win any damn thing.

And your spin doesn't make what the previous poster said less true.

[defendandprotect]

313. Of course targeting our right wing DINO's has a positive effect . . . .

That's why the GOP has been targeting their own liberals/progressive for

decades and moving in more righties --

and we should be doing just the reverse!!

We should have been doing it long ago --

but Rahm/DLC on the other hand has been setting up BLUE DOGS/DINO's to contest

liberal/progressive incumbents!

[treestar]

263. You're in the same party with Rahm, disagreements or not

Unless you aren't a Democrat.

[defendandprotect]

338. How is corporatism Democratic -- or democratic?

Corporatism is fascism --

[UnseenUndergrad]

3. As a Canadian...

I commend you.

I also pray for your soul for posting this on GD.

Is it any wonder I stick to the pootie threads and assorted good news?

[johnaries]

84. Thanks! I'm pretty thick-skinned.

I know I'm going to get the "pile-on". But I felt it "had to be said"!

I have a pretty good self-identity, I don't let others define me.

:hi:

[LostinVA]

186. How do you like that healthcare system you have?

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

319. Hi -- Understand you also don't have people crossing your borders for jobs . . .????

Guess Obama hasn't figured out yet that simply targeting and stopping the

employer from using "unqualified workers" -- i.e., non-citizens -- would be

something smart to do?

News travels slowly in America these days .... !!!

Germany also has a system which limits jobs to Germans -- and presume many

other nations -- but in America . . . when something has to do with the welfare

of corporate profit making our elected officials seem to stumble, mumble and

forget that they aren't inventing the wheel!!


:)

[Webster Green]

4. Chuckles?

:nuke:

[Swamp Rat]

5. Candidates will have to EARN my votes, no matter their political affiliation

So far, they are doing a ROTTEN JOB of earning my vote.

[treestar]

264. Who would "earn" your vote?

anyone besides you yourself?

If a candidate has to work to get your vote, he has to work to get others.

this is insane. It's the other way round, we pick the candidate most congenial to our views and support that candidate, along with others, some of whom disagree with us on various issues.

[defendandprotect]

320. We do NOT pick the candidates . . . the elites pick our candidates and let us vote for them...

and when the votes don't turn out the way they want them to ...

they do a little hacking and voila! --

[treestar]

325. We can pick our candidates if we want to

If "the elites" do it, that is because we sit back and let them do it.

[defendandprotect]

327. No -- it's because it's all based on money now . . . ask any citizen who has worked

even just with the Democrats -- they'll tell you --

Try it yourself and find out!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. How's that blind loyalty workin for ya?

[johnaries]

101. That's the point, it's NOT "blind loyalty" but I am informed.

If you would inform yourself, you would find that despite any "blind opposition" you have that this President - although not "perfect" - has done more since FDR.

Stop your "blind opposition" and open your eyes to the Truth. Look at the Facts.

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. Wake up from your coma

Don't go into the light!!

[earth mom]

275. WTF?! More than FDR?! Are you fucking kidding me?!

:crazy:

I've heard it all now! :rofl:


Just wait till Obama's buddies take your Social Security away. You know, the Social Security that FDR got ya.

[Cha]

277. + 1..Thanks john!

[defendandprotect]

321. As someone else said . ..

"We remember FDR -- and Obama is no FDR!!"

[SidDithers]

221. How's that blind hatred workin' for ya?...

Why do you think your opinion is any more informed than that of OP?

Sid

[SocialistLez]

244. +10 NT

[treestar]

266. It's not blind loyalty to support the party you agree with most that

has the best chance of winning.

You can't support any candidate or work for any candidate then, as soon as they disagree with you, you have to quit, and there will always be some disagreement between any two individuals.

[jgraz]

7. Yeah, that would be fucking retarded.

:eyes:

[scheming daemons]

8. Good luck with this thread... you're going to get eviscerated...

...even though you are right.


The "Nader-ites" are taking this place over.


It's not "Progressive Underground"... it's "Democratic Underground"... but they're turning it into a force to divide the Democratic party instead of uniting it.

[ibegurpard]

uniting it behind policy Republicans wish they could've gotten passed?

I'll pass thanks.

[USArmyParatrooper]

16. It's clearly amazing

The black sheep of DU have become those who *support* Democrats.

I posted an anti-Bachmann thread showing what would happen if the Republicans take over - and it got a bunch of UNrecs.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. Just an FYI, the OP's profile says he's a registered fucking independent.

[USArmyParatrooper]

38. It says: Registered Independent, but I agree with the Democratic Platform on every issue I know of.

However he registers he obviously supports the Democratic caucus and Democratic candidates. How about you?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

98. I'm a registered Democrat.

I too agree with the Democratic Platform on every issue I know of.

Can you tell me where warrantless wire-taps, illegal detentions, endless wars, torture, dismantling public education and the separation between church and state fit in to that platform?

[flyarm]

129. I am a registered Democrat as well and I resent any indy telling me who and what I have to support

I have been a registered Democrat for 40 years..how dare any Indy tell me what I need to accept, AS A Card carrying DEMOCRAT when it all flies in the Face of Democratic principles and values I have held dear for 40 years..what fucking nerve!

And to pretend to tell me (the OP).. doesn't want to see this turn into Green Underground..well I don't want it to be republican underground and that is exactly what we are getting and the shit on a shingle this good buddy is attempting to shove down our throats!

Op when you have walked the walk as a Democrat for 40 years,and put your time and money and blood into the Democratic party.. then we will talk..until then..no fucking way will you tell me anything.

[LostinVA]

188. +1

Good post!

[rbrnmw]

201. +100

I have been democrat since I registered to vote 22 years ago but I was raised in Democrat HQ watching my parents work their asses off for democrats who stood for democratic principles year after year, but sadly those principles no longer matter, as long as the person has a D by their name we should step in line and vote for them! Well I will NOT do it again. You say well you will let the Republicans win. I say if the person has republican principles but has a D by their name it doesn't make them Democratic it makes them dishonest!!!

[laughingliberal]

202. +2 nt

[mitchtv]

290. 42 years for me

It takes a lot of Gall doesn't it. This time I will vot for who I want . Luckily I am in Ca lf and most Dems on my slate are just fine Jerry Brown , Barbara Boxer, there is one phobe running down ticket who will NEVER get my vote He earned my hatred.tough shit if a republican wins; a useless Democrat will no longer automatically get my vote.

[Spheric]

344. +1 Exactly. And if we who have been Democrats for 40 years have to...

break a few eggs to rid our party of Republican corporatist ideals, so be it. What's the point of voting Democratic if they are going to essentially caucus with the Repugs on the most important legislation anyway? No thanks.

You'd have to be blind not to have noticed that the most rabid and disgusting right-wingers get a seat at the table while liberals are completely denied access. They don't even throw us the scraps.

"Shut up and vote for me." Really? I think not.

[laughingliberal]

199. I'm a registered Democrat for 36 years & my husband, a veteran paratrooper,

longer than that!

[ChiciB1]

200. YOU AGAIN??? WOW!!! n/t

[SunsetDreams]

43. those "fucking independents"

as you call them, are needed.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunsetDreams]

105. I don't agree.

[flyarm]

131. I don't agree with you..No indy should tell me what I should or should not

accept as a Democrat!

My democratic principles and values are not up for the highest bidder or flip flopping from party to party!

I am what I am ..as Registered card carrying Democrat, For 40 years!

I have not changed..my party has!

No democrat I know has ever supported wars based on lies then accelerated those wars!

No democrat i know supports renditions for torture!

No democrat I know looks the other way and accepts torture.

No democrat I know supports illegally wiretapping Americans and then giving immunity to the criminals.

No democrat I know bashes or calls liberals Fucking Retards!

Shall I go on?

Because there is more, much much more!

[SunsetDreams]

144. You don't agree with my I don't agree that

"Maybe he should change his registration before he runs his suck-hole about supporting Democrats."
On a Democratic site.

ok

[laughingliberal]

216. +1000 nt

[Cleobulus]

249. Oh, not all of them, I'm a registered Independent as well, a Socialist in my politics...

I know I'm not wanted or needed for anything from the Democratic Party.

[laughingliberal]

110. ROFL!! nt

[spoony]

154. Lol, shit. Too funny. nt

[LostinVA]

187. Really?

:rofl:

[Ikonoklast]

208. And Bernie Sanders is a Sociialist.

Yet he is the most reliable Democratic vote in the Senate, damn near.

He is intelligent enough to realize where he needs to stand in order to get things done.

[Junkdrawer]

209. I will NOT let DU become "Registered Independent Underground".

:mad:

[SunsetDreams]

22. No kidding.

[Swamp Rat]

34. Don't you mean, 'the "DLCers" are taking this place over?'

THEY are the real Machiavellians, not the powerless Green Party voters.

[USArmyParatrooper]

41. Oh really? How many pro-Democratic candidate threads make the rec list verse anti-Democratic?

[Swamp Rat]

Ooooo!!! DU is a hotbed of nasty tree-hugging greenies! ... BLARGLE YARGLE!!

[scheming daemons]

50. The threads run 2-1 against Democratic candidates lately...

...

[ibegurpard]

55. maybe because of things like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4483378&mesg_id=4483378

[laughingliberal]

113. That would explain a lot of it, yes. nt

[Ignis]

286. +1

But it's much easier to point fingers at imaginary bogeymen than to reflect on why. :shrug:

[Spheric]

345. Bingo! /nt

[Swamp Rat]

65. I mostly see authoritarian types trying to bully those with differing opinions.

:shrug:

[USArmyParatrooper]

83. As in... bullying pro-Democratic posters? Sure, I see that as well.

"Rham is that you?"

"How's that blind loyalty working out for you?"

Pro-Democratic and pro-Obama posters are routinely subject to attack. Much more so than in the reverse.

[Swamp Rat]

92. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

:rofl:

[flyarm]

133. hey Swamp Rat..my sides are splitting with laughter as well!

:toast: :toast: :rofl: :rofl: :spray: :rofl: :spray: :rofl: :spray:

[Swamp Rat]

138. BLARGLE YARGLE!!

:rofl:

[sufrommich]

178. There seems to be a real effort lately to cast any good news

for the Democrats as bad news. No good deed goes unpunished.

[LostinVA]

189. hahahahahahaha

:rofl:

[Steely_Dan]

233. If What You Say Is True...

and I think it is....

What does that tell you about the majority feeling concerning our President?

[Warren Stupidity]

171. no they don't

they run 2-1 against Democratic Party idiocy.

[Xithras]

39. Ahem...

/beginquote

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

/endquote


I've been here since the beginning. This site has always been way to the left of the party as a whole, and has always advocated far more liberal policies than the conservadem majority would like. Heck, most of us wanted to see Lieberman stripped of his chairmanships and seniority BEFORE he left the party.

So, yeah, the name may be Democratic Underground, but it's ALWAYS been a board for progressives.

[FreakinDJ]

59. Nader the Trader - is that "Sell Out" even alive still

Granted the best thing he could do to enhance his "Electability" is hide in the woods and keep his mouth shut, But I haven't even hear so much as a peep out of the old turn coat since he slithered off with his ill-gotten gains, (election campaign contributions) after his latest stunning defeat

nuff said:

[defendandprotect]

328. You are living the political nightmare Nader was describing 40 years ago -- !!

Evidently you know nothing about Nader --

and nothing about 2000 --

but, "nuff said" -- that's all it takes is know-nothing to support such crude ideas!!

[johnaries]

69. Yeah, but I had to give it a shot.

"my candle burns at both ends.... but oh! it give a lovely light!"

:)

[asdjrocky]

93. I thought real leftists and liberals were not needed in the party.

All they have to do is the right thing, we'll come back.

It's not up to us, you know, it's up to them.

[Warren Stupidity]

172. we are of no consequence plus we are fucking retarded

[ChiciB1]

203. Yeah, Didn't Someone FROM The White House Make That VERY CLEAR

to us who were once know as "the base?" One too many smack downs and more on the way I FEAR!!

[laughingliberal]

303. Yep. nt

[defendandprotect]

329. Think it might have been someone who sees the "base" as corporate $$$ . . . ???

[dionysus]

238. yeah, these threads always end up resembling a PUMA highlight reel...

[treestar]

267. And of course we must ask who benefits from that!

[tallahasseedem]

282. Word.

It's getting crazy.

[Sebastian Doyle]

9. I will not let DU become DLC Underground

Fuck the loyalty oaths. Fuck the threats. Fuck the hundreds of blatant mass call out threads this week.

[QC]

11. Too late. n/t

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sebastian Doyle]

27. Yeah, he's like a LaRouchie or something. Totally hates Obama.

:sarcasm::hide:

[defendandprotect]

330. +1000% and "too late" -- !!!

[scheming daemons]

40. Fuck those that ignore the word "DEMOCRATIC" in the site's name

...

[villager]

52. Fuck those that ignore the word "UNDERGROUND" in the site's name

...

[Sebastian Doyle]

56. Try reading

...start with my signature.

[Bobbie Jo]

63. +1000

...and the horse they rode in on.

[Raineyb]

234. And same goes for you. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

246. LOL

:rofl:

[Name removed]

251. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[POAS]

179. As a new member it would be a good idea

to read the mission statement and rules for posting. The rules dictate what is acceptable content for posts and as I understand those rules the poster you replied to is not in violation.

However that poster, IMO, was trying to convey an important aspect of those rules and mission in that this is a site intended for the promotion of Democratic candidates and office holders as well as the Democratic Party.

Welcome to DU, always good to have a fresh voice.

[SidDithers]

241. +1...nt

Sid

[Individualist]

265. Fuck DLC,

an organization which has undermined the DEMOCRATIC party!

[defendandprotect]

331. Our freedoms aren't based in private political parties ... it's based on small "d" democracy . . .

[mod mom]

181. + 1!

[LostinVA]

190. +1

[treestar]

270. There aren't any loyalty oaths

the DLC is irrelevant now. But if it were, it's part of the Democratic party.

[defendandprotect]

332. You're saying corporate interests are now part of the Democratic Party?

[flvegan]

10. This is going to go SO well.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

115. You've been here since May?

Oh my.

[Bobbie Jo]

13. Prepare to be swarmed and pummeled.

[flyarm]

134. and rightly so!

[Bobbie Jo]

248. No, predictably so.

The usual suspects, etc....

[flyarm]

300. rightly so..if you bully.. expect to have blow back..most definitely! eom

[Bobbie Jo]

310. Indeed.

What comes around goes around.

[SunsetDreams]

14. DU is Democratic Underground

Thanks.

DU doesn't promote any party other than the Democratic Party.

[IndianaGreen]

157. Max Baucus, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln

The assholes that killed the public option!

Why would we waste our votes on Blue Dogs and conservadems after all they did to us for the past 19 months? Do you think we are fraking idiots?

Why should we vote for people that just voted for more money for the war? Are we enablers of war crimes?

[SocialistLez]

245. +100

It is a waste of a vote to vote for POS candidates such as the ones you listed.

[Naturyl]

165. What about Democratic Values?

Is the Democratic Party promoting those anymore? If not, is it wrong to ask who is?

[LostinVA]

191. How about Crist?

[ChiciB1]

210. Who WILL Probably Win Here In Florida... I'm Seeing It Happen As Each

day moves forward! WHY?? Because Democrats here SEE Meek as EXTREMELY DLC, and Rubio as the devil incarnate!

So MANY of my Democratic friends feel they MUST vote for Crist because of what I just posted! It's called being in between a ROCK & A HARD PLACE!

There are times I so wish I didn't live here, but I KNOW I won't ever get to move away!! As a Boomer, my roots were planted way back in the 70's and most of my family ALL live here! My husband is a native and family goes WAY BACK!!

My ashes will be spread on the Gulf and maybe then I'll travel away!

[LostinVA]

213. So, the Fake Indie/Repub is better than teh Dem?

uh huh

[ChiciB1]

301. I'm Just Giving You The Facts Of What Is Being Said Here In Florida!

Perhaps you should just come down and listen! I'm not telling tales outta school or anything, THIS IS WHAT I'M HEARING!!

I'm NOT making up their minds! Meek is actually running behind a former GOP billionaire because he has so much money! And Greene is a sleaze bag running as a Dem now!

C'mon down and change some minds, but it looks like Crist WILL WIN!! That's for right now, and I don't see ANYTHING that Meek is doing that is trying to change it!!

Haven't heard a "peep" out of him until THIS WEEK!! I'll vote for him in the Primary, but dollars to donuts says HE WILL LOSE!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. I have the quaint notion that my vote belongs to me. Not to a party or politician.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[scheming daemons]

31. Then why are you hanging around a site that is dedicated to supporting a PARTY?

Says so right in the charter.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Show me where in "the charter" iit dictates how we vote.

[scheming daemons]

44. It doesn't... but it DOES say this is a site to support DEMOCRATIC candidates

If you actively support an non-Democrat against a Democrat in an election, that is cause for thread-lock or even tombstoning.


How you actually vote is your own business and nobody could verify one way or the other here. But you're not allowed to advocate for non-Democrats against Democrats

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. I don't and I haven't. Try again.

[AnArmyVeteran]

126. Tea baggers walk in lockstep. I don't!

[saracat]

142. It isn't about a Party. It is about the principles of that Party.

There is more to being a Democrat than just a letter after a name or a Party registration. But many don't realize that. Just as many don't get that it is more than just about "winning".

[Cerridwen]

17. I doubt you have much to worry about. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Silly season is on

Recommend you read the True Believer by Hoffer.

Or for that matter pick a history book or two...

Any on parties and why they lose or win might be useful... or for that matter a few on poli sci and why people vote the way they do.

Or rather, not you... the power elites in the party need to. Or there is a reason why 1994 might be around the corner, and as much as you want to blame the "left," whatever remains of it... why people stay home has ALL to do with those in power.

SO how is a little reality for ya?

[Forkboy]

20. ok.

[Xithras]

23. I've said it before...

My basic yardstick is that I vote for the LIBERAL most likely to win. 95% of the time, that's a Democrat. 5% of the time, when there's a ConservaDem running against a Green, I'll go Green.

Never vote for a conservative, no matter WHAT their party affiliation is.

[Tailormyst]

24. You are very, very sensible

[Dogmudgeon]

25. Snark squadron incoming in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

And they think they're all so clever and classless and free.

I do have one bone to pick with you. Don't surrender "Progressive" to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathers">Heathers! I'm a Progressive, and I may be even radder than lots of the too-hip-for-the-room crowd -- but ceaseless sarcasm and mannered outrage isn't how you do social change.

Ya gotta organize. Ranting doesn't count. It's just like you wrote in your other post.

Another K&R. You went from zero up to zero with my vote. C'est notre tendance.

--d!

[SunsetDreams]

29. you were a little late Dogmudgeon LOL

[Dogmudgeon]

33. "A Day Late and a Dollar Short"

That will be the title of my autobiography.

:evilgrin:

--d!

[SunsetDreams]

37. LOL

[Bobbie Jo]

90. In a similar genere....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_Girls


Heathers is spot on. :rofl:

[sandnsea]

26. It's always been Green Party Underground

Some people didn't notice and others were horribly confused about what the Democratic Party actually stands for.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

49. !

:popcorn:

[OnyxCollie]

89. !!

[asdjrocky]

99. It's like talking to cement Doyle.

Huge waste of time.

[johnaries]

66. I remember a time when FACTS reigned here.

And I would would come here just to find links.

Nobody ever uses links, anymore. And the few links that are provided are to unreliable websites.

*sigh* Whatever happened to the most Progressive value of all - the Pursuit of Truth?

If the Pursuit of Truth is no longer a Progressive Value, then I am no longer a Progressive. In my opinion, Progressives are no better than Teabaggers.

But that is NOT what a Progressive is! And I will NOT allow Teabagger-style values to kidnap my values.

[Sebastian Doyle]

109. "And the few links that are provided are to unreliable websites."

Like Blue Dog News??

[Javaman]

214. I explained this before and I still believe it...

During the run up to the'08 elections many repukes jumped party and came over to our side. As a result there was a huge influx of membership during that period of time on DU. Basically, the repukes who couldn't jibe with the new party platform of willful stupidity (not that it ever was anything else to begin with) found DU.

The level of discourse dropped dramatically since then. This is why I honestly believe Skinner needed to institute new a posting policy. Things have gotten way out of hand. The various closeted repukes on here now have effectively lowered the bar on discourse. I now have seen more deleted posts on here than ever before and much more tombstoning.

The turn coat repukes think they can just spew crap time and time again and get away with it.

There are a few that are trying hard to embrace the democratic platform, but in their haste to embrace, they still have to fully shed their repuke stupidity in the process.

That's my take.

[QC]

236. Amen. n/t

[suffragette]

252. "In my opinion, Progressives are no better than Teabaggers."

Thanks for clearly stating your real point of view.

Here's a link to a site with some people who would strongly disagree with you on that, one of them being my Representative:
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/

Equally clearly I disagree with your statement. In fact, I find it insulting, particularly on a Democratic site.

[laughingliberal]

305. Thanks. Reading here one would wonderif the Progressive Caucus was still part of the party. nt

[suffragette]

342. Sure seems that way, doesn't it?

Or Democratic Party Platforms like the one we have in Washington State.
Given that it also takes a progressive stance, the OP probably wouldn't care much for my link to that either.

Nevertheless, here it is:
http://wa-democrats.org/pdf/00%20-%20Full%20Platform.pdf

[defendandprotect]

333. "In my opinion, Progressives are no better than Teabaggers" --- ?? ??

Aren't those fighting words?

I doubt you'd appreciate it if progressives said that the DLC is no better than Cheney?

[metapunditedgy]

124. This Green Party Underground you speak of worked pretty damn hard to get Obama elected! n/t

[sandnsea]

150. Many Democrats did

However many Greens voted for Cynthia McKinney. 160,000 people voted for her. Another 700,000 voted for Nader. Many of them are right here and continue to disrupt this site on a daily basis.

[LostinVA]

192. How do McKinney voters disrupt the site?

I am DYING to hear this one.

[defendandprotect]

335. Is that a "Joe McCarthy" list you're waving there . . . ???

Unfortunately, there is a propensity on the right for witch hunts, it seems.

However many Greens voted for Cynthia McKinney. 160,000 people voted for her. Another 700,000 voted for Nader. Many of them are right here and continue to disrupt this site on a daily basis.

If you have any real basis or evidence for this flame against Greens here, please present it

to the administration --

[Bluenorthwest]

219. During the Primary, the Obamas visited an ice cream shop

here in town. Lots of Green Party activity here. When Michelle walked in, there was a customer with a big ol' Green Party tee shirt on. Michelle made a bee line for that guy, smiling and shaking his hand, instantly as if that tee shirt was a good thing.
Some of our Greens in 08 called themselves Greendogs, and they voted for Obama in droves.

[LooseWilly]

295. Oops.

I mean, what else can we say about that?

(I guess this thread is the equivalent of Green political-unemployment-benefits running out? :+)

[LostInAnomie]

28. Wasted words, I'm afraid.

Too many on here are glowingly content to just bash Obama and divide the party. This place has been taken over by them.

[Oregone]

30. I will NOT give a shit

[davidinalameda]

36. I agree 1000% with you

fuck the Greens and fuck their supporters

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Once Nader comes out of whatever cave he's been in and actually announces for 2012---

(still flush with that cash he took from right-wing Republicans in 2004 :o)

I suspect you will see an awful lot of people unable to continue to abide by the relatively straightforward rules of this place.

None of which will surprise me. I had several friendships that practically ended during the Clinton admin. over Ralph Nader.

[depakid]

57. See post 45 below

btw: considering the above statement, it's little wonder you lost friends.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Did I say I lost any?

To the one, they all apologized profusely for being such imbeciles, once they saw what Bush II was like.

Of course, that involved a bit of growing up. Which takes longer for some people.

[depakid]

68. I guess that speaks to the sort of company you keep

Very few people I know ever "apologized" or did anything of the sort for supporting Nader for voting for their values and principles- though I have heard several express regret about their votes in 1992 and also in 2008 (though admittedly, it was easier to not vote for either of the two in Oregon & California).

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Yeah. I guess.

[depakid]

85. Pretty much me, too

I tend toward those who value policy over party and principles over politicians- and have less tolerance for those who pretty much mirror Rahm and think: fuck 'em, they have nowhere else to go.

That's the exact sort of deal that split the party- and created Nader's constituency in the first place!

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/6674/

[Warren DeMontague]

87. I know Rahm is the boogeyman du jour

but I don't think things are that black and white, honestly. I'm not thrilled with everything the Admin. is doing, but overall, I think they're doing a fine job. I do.

I also think Bill Clinton was far and away the best President of my lifetime so far. I do. And yes, I was alive for Carter.

[depakid]

91. The lesson is: create a political vacuum and someone (or some party) will will it

Pander to the corporate right- enable and legitimize Republicans and their failed ideology- adopt their policies and lo and behold- you'll end up with a lose/lose all around.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. That might be one of the lessons.

I think there are lots of lessons here.

[sandnsea]

79. Some of them admit they didn't vote for Obama

I don't know why they continue to pretend they're Democrats.

[Dr.Phool]

147. I voted for him

I didn't like him in the primaries. I didn't like him in the General. I just never saw any there, there. But, I didn't like the alternatives either.

And now I like him even less.

I had a rare advantage. I got to spend an entire day with all of the Dem candidates. Six months before the first primary. Just four of us, the candidates, a couple of their staffers, and some security. Nobody else, no press, no nothing.

I had already had the candidates ranked in order of preference in my mind. Obama was number seven, Hillary was number eight. However, after spending an hour talking with Chris Dodd, everyone else went up a notch, and he went to the bottom. Dumbest motherfucker I ever met in my life. Disclaimer: I've never met Evan Bayh.

But, that day, Obama just breezed in, talked to a couple of Senators for a minute, and breezed out. At the time I was with Dennis and Elizabeth Kucinich, and I just remarked to them, "The Anointed One".

Nobody else spoke.

[dionysus]

247. their only goal is to attempt to drive off obama supporters or make them miserable as they are.

[TheKentuckian]

51. poit

[depakid]

53. That last post was funny enough- but this one borders on the paranoid

[OmahaBlueDog]

54. I think it's up to Skinner what DU becomes. It's his site, after all

That said, I'm not a fan of voting "Green" unless there is not a Dem to vote for. It's not blind loyalty, but recognition that I'm better off with a conservadem like Ben Nelson, who will at least support keeping Democrats in charge of committees, instead of voting for Pete Ricketts (R- TD Ameritrade) who will support putting geniuses like Coburn, Inhofe, and Brownback in leadership positions.

[metapunditedgy]

127. As a former Ameritrade customer, I can verify that you want nothing to do with them or

the Ricketts family. May they all suffer what they deserve.

[IndianaGreen]

158. We vote for people to represent us, not to keep the elites with choice committee chairs

and nice spacious offices. You miss the entire point of having elections!

[OmahaBlueDog]

254. Who's being naive, Kay?

There are 535 elected people on the Hill. They are all elite. There are two parties, and a handful of non-party members who (out of necessity) work within the two-party. The objective of having elections is to put people in positions of power from the one of the two parties which most closely represents one's views. That's how legislation gets advanced. Sure, you could vote for a Green party candidate; in 99% of America, you might as well go to TGI Fridays for drinks as to go vote, because -at best - you are voting for a candidate who has no chance of getting elected. At worst, by voting for someone with no realistic chance to win (like Ralph Nader) you are stripping votes from a candidate who has a chance of winning (like Al Gore)and allowing a far more conservative candidate (like George W Bush) to win.

[inna]

58. omg, what ridiculous, ignorant, offensive crap of a post.

[amborin]

62. +1000

[Gman]

60. LOL!!!

Great post and I'm with you 100%. K&R But as is the case these days on any pro-Democratic party OP, it's gonna need a whole lot of recs just to get it back into positive territory.

Glad to see someone else tired of the willfully destructive threads lately.

[depakid]

70. For us or agin us!

:rofl:

people with that attitude deserve the crap legislation and economic decline that they get.

[Gman]

76. You gotta know who your enemies are

[depakid]

96. Failed right wing ideology and policies- no matter who advocates or works to achieve it

[LostinVA]

194. So, the Greens and other progressives are the enemies to you?

Oh brother.

:eyes:

[Gman]

348. Anyone that works to defeat Democrats is the enemy

Greens run against Democrats which makes them no different than Republicans.

[bassnectar]

256. enemies lists?

[Forkboy]

347. And yours is clearly the Left, not the Right.

[SunsetDreams]

78. Agree.

[Raineyb]

239. Willfully destructive? Like that piece of shit post you put up channeling Bush?

Pot meet kettle.

[Amonester]

64. You think DU will be responsible for winning or losing?

If you do, it's laughable at best. Last I checked, tens of millions of voters will cast their votes in November.

Even if ten thousands DUers do not intend to vote for Dems or stay home to protest, it will be like a drop of rain in a lake.

Control freak, much?

[Swamp Rat]

67. Who would you like to see win?

Just let me know, and I'll put in a good word for you. ;) :D

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostInAnomie]

75. Really!? Some essentially anonymous people on the internet are making you mad...

... so your solution is to make it one vote easier for a Republican to get elected. Good thinking. :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

80. I never voted for a Republican until some guy with an Obama sticker cut me off in traffic.

Now, I'm anti anti-choice, club for growth, Ayn Rand fanatic who is voting for Sarah Palin in 2012.

Happy now, lane-changer?????

[SunsetDreams]

86. now THAT is hillarious

"I never voted for a Republican until some guy with an Obama sticker cut me off in traffic."

:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

97. LOL! ... that was me!

:yoiks:

[Warren DeMontague]

106. You were probably photoshopping while driving, again.

Maniac.

[Swamp Rat]

119. At least I was not masturbating

that time. :D

[flyarm]

139. Got to clean the keyboard again..wow Swamp rat you are on a roll tonight..and got me

rolling on the floor :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: my ass off!

Thanks ..the laughter is sooooooo gooooood!

[Swamp Rat]

140. It's been a while, so I thought I'd visit DU tonight.

:hi: :hug:

[Ignis]

287. !

:spray:

You are missed, man. You are missed.

[Kurovski]

343. "Harpocrite"

:rofl: :rofl:

Harpo...good call. Poor Harpo. :loveya:

[EFerrari]

116. LOL

:applause:

[Dr.Phool]

103. They said they don't need my vote.

I don't have anywhere else to go.

Bet me, Buckwheat.

[LooseWilly]

72. the Green Party would disappear if the Democratic Party adopted their platform

... or even adopted the majority of the platform... if they would actually also fight for those policies.

I dare you to use all that "juice" that you're talking about— not to merely put the Greens in their place... but to kill the party entirely.

:+

[Oregone]

82. Democrats will not be held hostage and capitulate to the Left!

But to the Right....

[scheming daemons]

95. If the Democrats adopted the Green Party platform, they'd never win another national election

...ever.

[depakid]

107. LOL- falling for that crap about how America is a "center right" nation, eh?

You might want to consider why- despite fielding the sorriest bunch that "graced" national politics in modern history, the Democrats have about a 50% chance of losing the House and look to lose 4-5 Senate seats!

Hint: it ain't because the administration and the Senate are "too liberal."

[scheming daemons]

121. The why is very simple....

In midterm elections, the party in power loses on average 19 house seats and 4 senate seats.


Losing 4-5 senate seats is the norm.


If we lose 30-40 house seats, that a little higher than norm, but not exceedingly so.



And we're not a "center-right" nation... we're a "center" nation... by definition. It's a bell curve. The bulk of the country resides between the 30-yard lines.

DU is closer to the left end zone.

[LooseWilly]

293. If statistics are to be quoted as if Holy Scripture- then why fret so?

Your statistics say that the Democrats will lose seats, so "stop trying to control everything, and just let go".

Of course, you should remember that the "center" of your definition is a relative and subjective term, and the subjects that it is relative to aren't static widgets, as statistical models would have them be, but dynamic dumb-asses... who might find your statisticalization of them offensive enough to change your definitions and defy your solutions to an equation that is really only a model... and they might do it just to spite you and your ilk.

On the other hand... it could be argued that the statistics show that the seats will be lost anyway— so why bother wasting time capitulating to the "right"?... unless, of course, it's really not capitulation... but a calculated choice to offend the left rather than the right.

"Buy the ticket, take the ride" as a wise, drug-addled man once said. Metaphorically piss on the leg of the Left, stop crying about the Greens possible gains of momentum and support. To do otherwise is disingenuous at best, and cowardice at worst. And, you know it.

[scheming daemons]

298. I'm just trying to keep the losses as minimal as possible

..but the point was that the Dems arent losing seats because they werent "liberal" enough...

Where they are losing ground in the polls is in the center, not on the left.

For all the bellyaching, 90% of the left will still vote Dem in november....

But our losses will be minimal if we hold the center and quit hemorraging support there.

[scheming daemons]

123. Secondly... if the Green Party platform appealed to lots of Americans...

..then the Green Party wouldn't consider it a "victory" when they get more than 5% of the vote in a race.

Dennis Kucinich, who's as "Green" as any Democrat, couldn't even reach 10% in ANY state's PRIMARY - let alone a national election.


Less than 10% of the population relates to the "Green Party platform"... and I'm being generous.



You may feel that our ideals are shared by the majority of Americans... but they simply aren't.

[treestar]

271. Then why doesn't the Green Party just win anyway?

If the voters are that far left, why don't the Greens win significant elections in numbers to be noticed anywhere?

[Sebastian Doyle]

156. Only one President in the history of this country was elected 4 times.

And he didn't do it by pandering to the right.

[Shining Jack]

162. Hey,now I get it !

Obama needs more time you know so I'm sure that if he was elected 3 more times the country would be Heaven on earth. :)

[metapunditedgy]

128. Greens would disappear if the Dems enacted the *Democratic* platform. n/t

[Love Bug]

206. Frankly, I'd be thrilled if the Democrats fought for the platform they already have

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

120. You're on fire.

Fire I tell ya!

[Ken Burch]

100. We don't need McCarthyite threads on DU.

If you don't want people to split off and work for other parties, work to keep this from being the sort of party that drives people away.

Not rocket science.

[Desertrose]

111. ...and you are....?

the "decider" of DU then?



Oh dear lord, what next? Since I signed on here on 1/01, this place has moved so damn far right my neck won't turn any farther.

[EFerrari]

118. So what's up with the serial panic attacks?

Relax. It's JULY.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

125. Evidently, the "irrelevant" left is giving them the heebie-jeebies.

[AnArmyVeteran]

122. When they know they have you in their pockets they STOP representing you.

The ONLY way to get any kind of representation is to put fear in THEM. Until they feel fear they will totally ignore the people who put them in office. Look what all the blind loyalty did for those that worked so hard to put them in office: Compromise, Caving In, Giving Up and Selling Out. A year and a half into this administration and they KEEP allowing republicans to water down bills without getting a single vote. Senate leadership has been horrendous. And President Obama let the ignorant and illiterate tea baggers totally control the health care debate without saying a word. Obama is a smart man, but how smart can anyone be who lets ignorant tea baggers outsmart them?

I will never let anyone take my vote for granted. I have never cast a straight party ballot and I never will. People have be worthy of MY vote. They have to work for it and then they had better do what they promised to do. I am not owned by any political party. I wouldn't be a good citizen if my leaders thought they had me in their pockets.

And the Green Party doesn't take any votes from the democrats. If democratic leaders acted with conviction & COURAGE and were REAL leaders they wouldn't have to worry about progressives giving up on them and casting their votes elsewhere. I am sick and tired of the lack of allegiance democratic leaders have for the millions of progressives who worked their asses to elect them. I didnt spend a year to elect people only to watch them constanty cave into the enemy. Real change takes real leaders. Timidity and cowardice are not traits any true leaders have.

What troubles me the most is that Obama could be a virtual hero by now if he just did what he said he was going to do. But compromising with the same party that brought our country to the brink of ruin isn't a sign of leadership. If I wanted the same failed policies the republicans burdened our country with I would have voted for republicans. But I'm a progressive and I wanted to end their madness. I don't believe it is too much to expect the same from the democratic leaders I helped put into office.

[upi402]

130. "throw away your vote" ---you mean on Conserva-Dems?

or are you talking about Greens. Is there a Green Party left? I thought it was snuffed out. (sadly)
Bernie Sanders in an Independant, not a Green. But to me, he's a regular old Democrat. How they used to be. How they should be. And how they will be if we refuse to re-elect Conserva-Dems.

Never again for me. Sorry, I'm not even tasting that Kool Aid any more.

[Dr.Phool]

135. I know what you mean.

In the last Florida Governors race, the opposition candidate was clearly the better choice. And I personally knew the Dem in the race, and I couldn't stand him. As a congressman, he supported the Patriot Act, and was one of 27 "New Democrats" who signed a letter to Dennis Hastert, begging him to please bring that horrendous bankruptcy bill to the floor soon, so they could vote for it.

I knew the guy, and I couldn't stand him. His name was Jim Davis by the way. But, being a member of my county DEC, I was obligated to support and vote for him. No more. I'm now registered as "No Party Affiliation". I resigned the DEC after we passed the War Funding Resolution in 2007, after we had a majority. And I quit the party after they voted for Telecom Immunity, against restoring Habeas Corpus, and renewed onerous provisions of the Patriot Act.

[jgraz]

132. Interesting post coming from a "Registered Independent"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=155648

Seriously? :crazy:

[MadHound]

137. Excuse me, but who died and made you admin?

Do you own this site?

No, so what you want, don't want or fantasize about is of absolutely no bearing whatsoever. We all follow the rules, and the final decisions are left up to Skinner and the crew, not you. So deal with it, or not, I frankly don't care.

[saracat]

141. Not to be snarky but as a pro choice, pro gay rights, unemployed

women with an unemployed husband , with a health condition, why should I be agonizing over the rest of you when I have been told countless times that I don't matter and my vote isn't even wanted? For the record, I WILL and always have voted Democratic, but I resent being told to consider the consequences to others when I am told to disregard any of my own issues to do so. I was told to support the president because choice for women could be endangered only to have him resurrect Stupak for the high risk pool voluntarily. I was told to support Obama because he would get us a public option and without mandates and he provided us with a bill that did not have a PO and specified mandates.I truly do not think my needs are agonized over by anyone so , while I will cast my "Democratic" vote, I no longer have any expectations and I see no reason to agonize over your concerns.

[Bryn]

146. You sound desperate

to keep the status quo? To keep super-rich/elites happy? This is what today Democratic Party is serving ... the corporate, not us the people.

[smalll]

151. You know, even the woodchuck-avatar people here will pull the lever for the Dems this year

That's not the problem.

The problem is, 2 legs of the 3-legged stool that Obama built his primary and general election victories on two years ago -- the iPod kids and the African-Americans -- just won't show up anywhere near the same numbers for some "midterm." No matter what anyone does or says.

Live by cool, die by cool. :shrug:

[ima_sinnic]

155. oh, you think "the woodchuck-avatar people" have nowhere else to go?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

People are tired of wasting their votes on candidates who say they're Democrats and then vote like Republicans. They're tired of wasting their votes on endless war, unlimited Wall St. bailouts and bonuses, unregulated cash cows for insurance co's, expanded unconstitutional presidential powers, and on and on.

So, no, it would be a mistake to take anybody's vote for granted--especially now, because "once fooled, twice shy."

[Warren Stupidity]

176. many of them, like me, will be voting for good Democratic reps

and senators who deserve to be re-elected.

[SidDithers]

243. I doubt it...nt

Sid

[spoony]

153. So, other than post tantrums, what will you do?

You know, to stop the evil progressives from posting about how Dems are selling us down the river? What are you planning on doing about it?

[Prometheus Bound]

166. That, indeed, is the point - Wacha gonna do 'bout it?

[Hannah Bell]

164. There's a simple solution, you know: the Dems could start acting like Dems.

Then Dem voters would have a reason to vote for them.

[LostinVA]

196. +1

[ima_sinnic]

167. now why on earth wouldn't anyone vote Democratic?

I mean, look at the legislation we've gotten with Democrats in charge!
Nothing at all like what we would've gotten with Republicans, right?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I wonder why the Democrats are getting twitchy now?
I've been told several times to go elsewhere, my vote wasn't needed--now all of a sudden it is?
I will vote for candidates who have a proven track record of working in the best interests of We The People and not Them The Corporations, Lobbyists, and Big Money. In that way I will definitely NOT "throw away my vote" (unlike voting for, say, a Blanche Lincoln or other republican-democrat type).

Are you worried the Dems don't fulfill that requirement and people might not vote for them?

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if the Democrats adhered to the principles of the Democratic Party.

[mmonk]

168. Voting for the one you want is giving a vote to that person alone.

I am not Green and I'm not DLC. If I vote for a DLC candidate, it's because they didn't run like one but ran dishonestly in their campaign. I, like many active Democrats, have been part of the process and have crafted the party platforms that elected Democrats vote against when in office. The fault of our anger or dissatisfaction does not lie with us. We will not accept your blame nor the endless parade of straw dogs.

[Bunny]

169. .

[LostinVA]

197. Vivien Leigh was the Brit equivalent of a Green

uh oh...

[pecwae]

170. You speak of 'fear tactics'

then lay the very same on with a big dose of guilt in your last rambling paragraph.

[Ross K]

177. Would the "Spontaneous Human Combustion Underground" be more to your liking?

I have become convinced that that will be the requirement for the denialists to rethink! Oops. Sorry: To BEGIN thinking in the first place!!!

[mod mom]

180. will you do the same about corporatists taking over?

anyway...since when did Skinner et al leave you in charge? :eyes:

get over yourself!

[LostinVA]

182. "any vote for them results in a vote for the Republican Party"

:ROFL:

[tallahasseedem]

185. Excellent post!

I did recommend it...but you know how it goes!

[QC]

193. I will NOT let Britney go back to K-Fed.

He's just no good for her!

[JVS]

322. How will you stop her?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

195. You will NOT let DU become "Green Party Underground"

Okay what are your plans for crushing the opponent? Will it involve threats or violence, or will you just get really internetangry.

[Javaman]

212. He will boldly over use the cap function, maybe a few bolded phrases

and to top it all off, make ample use of the exclamation point!!!!!!!!!

He has a back up keyboard just in case.

:rofl:

[QC]

217. And then comes the heavy artillery: accusing people of really wanting Pres. Palin!!! n/t

[Javaman]

218. Yes, that never fails to work! I can feel my ears ringing now...

:rofl:

[mitchtv]

294. besides they all supported Hitlery

:smoke:

[QC]

297. They never truly loved the president!

:cry:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

198. Oh never mind

"Registered Independent, but I agree with the Democratic Platform on every issue I know of."

You aren't even a registered Democrat????

Go away.

[Bluenorthwest]

205. You won't 'let' it?

What are you going to do? Hold your breath?

[Javaman]

211. There has been a number of these "follow us or die" types of threads these days

Since when do republican talking points of blind faith regardless of platform become the new Dem talking point?

Odd. very very odd.

On edit: ahhh, the op is an independent. That explains it. For someone who espouses upon the evils of this site becoming anything other than "Democratic" Underground, they don't seem fit to even join the Democratic Party. LOL Priceless simply, priceless. LOL You would make a great snake oil saleman. :)

Ta!

[joeybee12]

215. Booooooooring! K, I guess, but also U!

[LostinVA]

220. It's a good thing for you DU is going the other way

And, you have done a great job helping, Mr. Registered Indie! Apply for a modship next term.

[Stinky The Clown]

222. Uh ....... here .......

My dearly departed uncle, Authoritario The Jack Booted Clown, wore this all the time.

I bet you'd like it.



It has been on ebay and didn't sell, but I'll let it go direct for $11,287.44. Plus shipping. Plus mandatory insurance. Plus a requirement that you notarize the receipt confirmation and send that back to me before I send the piece. (Sorry, those are my non-negotiable seller rules. I have been burned too many times.)

[Dr.Phool]

223. !

It's about time you got out of bed, Stinky.

[Bluenorthwest]

224. Having read the thread and found that you are not a Democrat

and you say that Progressives are the same as Tea Baggers, clearly you are too 'right leaning' for my taste. Next!

[stubtoe]

225. We Democrats are still here on DU. We just don't make a lot of noise.

[SidDithers]

240. +1...nt

Sid

[SunsetDreams]

285. ...

:toast:

[Catherina]

228. Who are you to think you own all our votes?

Your happiness with any electoral outcome is not at the top of my list. What kind of bullshit is this?

[Ross K]

229. OP,

Chill out!

[Steely_Dan]

231. Adhering To Democratic Principles

The following is a copy of FDR's Economic Bill Of Rights. I consider them to be the tenets of our Party. Not the Green Party, but the Democratic Party. Can you tell me which of these tenets have been supported by the current Administration?


Franklin D. Roosevelt
“The Economic Bill of Rights”

Excerpt from 11 January 1944 message to Congress on the State of the Union

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.


--------------

Is it too much to ask a Democratic President to support and enhance these tenets?

-PLA

[Donald Ian Rankin]

235. You're exactly half right.

A vote for the Green party is not as bad as a vote for the Republican party; assuming that it would otherwise have been a vote for a Democrat it's exactly half as bad, just like any other wasted or protest vote.

[SocialistLez]

242. What the f ever. I am PROUD to vote for Green Party candidates!

I'll continue voting Green until the Dems clean up their act.
The only reason I am voting Dem in my congressional district is because a green is not running against her,

I don't consider my vote for the Greens a waste of a vote.
It's a waste of ANYONE'S vote to vote for someone who will eventually sell them out and trust me, most Dems will sell their constituents out.

[LWolf]

250. It's good to know that you have appointed yourself

judge, jury, psychic, and gatekeeper at DU. You can psychically determine the political affiliations and registrations of all those anonymous users, reach a verdict about whether or not they fit your personal criteria for who belongs on DU, and judge them "in" or "out" of "your" DU, and pat yourself on the back while doing it.

Then, having appointed yourself DU's "High Inquisitor," you can start hanging edicts about voting on the forum walls, and set those of us who don't respect nor follow your rules to writing "I will not criticize a Democrat" until we are crushed in defeat.

DU will be saved because you did not "LET" Greens take it over.




:rofl:

[Chisox08]

253. How original

Another loyalty oath thread. Just like every election cycle the Democrats have to earn my vote. I don't vote for someone just because they are a Democrat. If I did I would be no better than a freeper.

[TK421]

255. Okay, Mr. Heimermann n/t

[bertman]

259. Dear johnaries, I supported and voted for Democrats EXCLUSIVELY for 40 years.

No more. Now I will vote for whoever stands for what used to be a Democratic agenda: protecting Americans' constitutional rights, protecting the working classes against the predation of the corporate overlords, defending true freedom not corporate profits, protecting the personal rights of ALL Americans.

If that candidate convinces me she/he is going to BE a Progressive/Liberal Democrat by words AND deeds, then I will vote for her/him. Otherwise, I'll vote for any damn body I please.

Until we wrest power from the DLC the Democratic party is going to lose more and more voters.

[Name removed]

260. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

261. Agree! This is DEMOCRATIC Underground

There is a time to set aside differences, and that is not mindless "lockstep."

[Lucian]

268. It's not a vote for Republicans if most Progressives vote for the Greens.

I'm tired of this same-old argument. :eyes:

[Individualist]

269. Unrec. I will NOT be intimidated by DLC

[POAS]

283. How unfortunate that you

feel someone is trying to intimidate you.

[Individualist]

308. Fail. DLC's attempts at smokescreens are transparent as glass.

[POAS]

324. What? n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

273. Donning his shining armor the knight mounts his noble steed and rides to the rescue of imperiled DU.

[POAS]

284. That's some pretty funny stuff.......

:rofl:

[derby378]

274. I know of at least one Green Party candidate who switched to the Democrats

Good thing, too - the GOP has co-opted the Greens here in Texas in a desperate bid to keep Bill White from replacing Rick Perry as Governor.

[earth mom]

276. This thread is hilarious and full of shit too.

:rofl:

:puke:


Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.


p.s. Nice amount of recs ya got on this thread-NOT! :evilgrin:

[grantcart]

278. How do we reconcile the fact that a huge number of posters disagree with you

and yet the Green Party fails to register any electoral successes.

[deutsey]

281. Don't turn around, uh-oh

Ja ja

DU's Kommissar's in town, uh-oh.

[bvar22]

288. Its about the Policy, not Party.

The unlearned lesson of 2000:
"Centrism" creates a vacuum on The Left.
Vacuums are filled.
Its Physics.

If not Nader, it would have been someone else.

Campaign Obama promised the "everyone would have a seat at the table."
I was overjoyed.
At last, the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party was going to have a voice in the Party Leadership.
Then, Obama did this:

The DLC New Team

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

The current Centrist Democratic Party leadership is re-creating another Perfect Storm,
only THIS time, even BIGGER.

You can fume, blame, make threats, insult, demand, or curse all you want to,
but the current Democratic Party Leadership with its obsession for "Bi-Partisan Consensus", DLC (Republican) Economic Models, Republican "reform", and escalation of The WAR & Military Spending has in fact created a HUGE Vacuum on The Left.
This vacuum WILL be filled.

If you want to do something about this, talk to the "Centrist" Democratic Party Leadership.
They are responsible, not the voters.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[LWolf]

296. +10

[KamaAina]

291. This is true in national elections

but in a few cities, and maybe even a congressional district or two, a Green candidate is more viable than a repuke. (Richmond, CA, near Berkeley and Oakland, has a Green mayor.) Of course, this being Democratic Underground, this wouldn't be the place to actively support such a candidate.

[Greyhound]

292. Wow, such an adamant position on a non-issue.

Well done, Chuckles.
:rofl:

ETA;:kick: & U

[KG]

299. some days, DU is pure comedy gold.

:rofl:

[stranger81]

302. Good thing you were appointed as Master Arbiter of All Things DU, then.

Oh, wait . . . . you weren't.

[defendandprotect]

304. We are regular liberal/progressive DEMOCRATS hugely dissatisfied with Obama ....

and that has nothing to do with the Green Party --


What we need is a new Democratic candidate in 2012 -- preferably a liberal --

And to get the DLC-corporate influences out of the Democratic Party --

and out of the White House -- !!

[Dappleganger]

306. I'd be quite happy to vote for a Democratic Party

which hasn't been neutered into Republican-lite.

[Iggo]

311. Oh you won't, will you?

[JVS]

323. When did this become your decision? If the admins wanted, this place could become Korean Workers'..

Party Underground, and there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it.

[hulka38]

334. "...there are some that would choose to divide us"

Lay off the rubber turkey.

[Sapphocrat]

336. What do you mean, exactly, by...

...YOU "will NOT let DU become" anything?

Are you now a paid employee of / official spokesman for Democratic Underground, LLC?

If not, then it may be a bit of a stretch to say that YOU "will NOT let DU become" X, Y, and/or Z -- and about as productive (and credible) to state that YOU will NOT allow the RAIN to FALL from the SKY whenever it darned well feels like it.

If, however, you are acting in an official capacity representing Democratic Underground, LLC, then I apologize for any insult, and will in the future humbly defer to your Final Word.

[yurbud]

339. I don't necessarily endorse voting for any particular third party, but...

what we have gotten from the White House and Congress is because they think they can take our votes for granted.

Anything we can do to put the fear of God in them and make them think they have to EARN our vote is all to the good.

This aint football where you cheer for a team because you like the color of their jersey. We vote for certain goals and values that affect our ability to support our families, and if we have kids in the military, to make sure their lives are only risked to protect our country not fatten some oil company's bottom line.

[yurbud]

340. is it just me or does this post smell like flopsweat on the DLC?

Maybe they are realizing too late that in addition to corporate donors, you need actual voters to win elections too, and you can't shit on them repeatedly and then expect them support you at the polls.

[JoseGaspar]

341. It's not enough...

Haven't you heard about the "enthusiasm gap"? Everyone knows that the Democratic Party Left is too small to make a difference in its own right. Rahm said so.

The significance of the Left is that they have to be ENTHUSIASTIC. They have to pull over the Indies, "galvanize" the base, and explain how a long list of inconsequential accomplishments is the promised Shangri-La.

While you are threatening the Left, force them to be ENTHUSIASTIC. Make 'em dance... Make 'em sing.

Make each Leftie adopt at least one war as his or her own. Force them to fawn over personalities. Push them to put aside anything they care about until after the elections, when such things are irrelevant.

A few votes? Shit... who cares about that?

Since you have seized power, aim higher...

Take a page from Faust.

Make 'em dance.

[hulka38]

356. I look forward to more.

[BreweryYardRat]

350. Yep. Guys, the 2-party system sucks. We need instant runoff voting. But...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting

...until we're able to pick from multiple candidates, so that a vote for Progressive parties doesn't automatically turn into a vote against the Democratic Party and for the Republican party, we're going to have to vote Democratic. We may not get everything we want, but if we keep up the pressure, we'll keep improving our country.

[Jakes Progress]

352. Anyone else tired of people telling us we have no choice?

[LWolf]

354. Beyond sick and tired. nt

[MissDeeds]

353. " I will NOT let DU become 'Green Party Underground'"

Wow - quite a power trip there, that YOU, as one person, could single handedly shape the ideology of this or any forum that has a membership that exceeds 150,000. Amazing!

[Jakes Progress]

355. The OP is willing to let corporations take over the party

without dissent. Willing to let wars go on and on. Willing to use money for banks and bombs but not jobs.

You would think with all the power to force DU to his/her will, he/she would at least use those mighty powers for something meaningful.