Police brutality. It's not a "DU meme".

[Bonobo]

Yes, lots of cops do their jobs correctly, but the argument that those stories are not covered enough does not diminish the fact that police brutality in the US is a problem.

So, to my friend who posted some links of cops doing their jobs, I add this list. All from articles in the last 3 days.
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmByfTKKUV4&feature=related

Columbia MO cops sued by man who was tasered & beaten 30sec into traffic stop for asking why he was pulled over:
http://is.gd/dDHDn

Phoenix AZ cop who sued Gilbert cop for tasering him for resisting at DUI stop is subject of failure to appear warrant:
http://is.gd/dDIIT

Diamondhead AR man who shot cop claims self defense, says off-duty cop stalked his wife then fired at him when questioned
http://is.gd/dDYgn

Denver County CO deputies accused of excessive force by witness of detainee's death after being choked & tasered at jail:
http://is.gd/dDGBI

Washington DC sued by ACLU over police use of disorderly conduct charge to cover for false "contempt of cop" arrests:
http://is.gd/dDXqF

Denver CO cop accused of pulling gun on McD's worker last year now on desk duty after arrested going 143mph while drunk:
http://is.gd/dDWuc

Baltimore MD cop gets suspended sentence, will serve 18mo in plea deal for shooting at car after off-duty bar brawl:
http://is.gd/dDBVW

Colorado State trooper investigated after witness claims unarmed man shot to death when he didn't let cops in w/o warrant
http://is.gd/dD0JY

Chicago IL faces 2nd Burge post-conviction suit filed by man imprisoned 23yrs alleging he was tortured into confessing:
http://is.gd/dCvCe

Hyattsville MD police officer indicted on perjury & assault charges for kicking cuffed man in face & lying to justify it:
http://is.gd/dCtbn

Mount Sterling IL police officer under investigation on allegations that he maced & beat handcuffed man outside bar:
http://is.gd/dCkCT

Walden NY settles suit for unspecified sum to woman who's arm was broken by cop at traffic stop, 2 cops face discipline:
http://is.gd/dBK6S

Houston TX police officer accused of fracturing man's eye socket after hitting him w/metal flashlight 5x while cuffed:
http://is.gd/dBwRo

2 San Juan Co WA deputies subject of suit alleging excessive force false arrest of woman in home they illegally searched:
http://is.gd/dBqWh

Greenville SC cop charged w/criminal DV for punching woman in the face and choking her during argument, resigned:
http://is.gd/dBbou

West Seneca NY police officer faces federal deprivation of rights charge for punching man while in uniform:
http://is.gd/dB9Qg

San Francisco CA police officer investigated on brutality claim after video shows him slam woman face-first into pavement
http://is.gd/dB6UV

Milwaukee WI police officer suspended while investigated on allegations he choked & raped woman who called for help:
http://is.gd/dAWCQ

Baltimore MD police officer Salvatore "Dude" Rivieri of '07 YouTube fame cleared of all but 1 minor administrative charge
http://is.gd/dAfZn

Concord NH cop sentenced to 45 days jail for assaulting woman during arrest & warning her not to report groping incident:
http://is.gd/dAfHB

Milwaukee WI cop suspended after arrested on allegations he pulled gun & threatened to kill at least 1 person while drunk
http://is.gd/dAfql

East Kingston NH cop and his friend arrested when caught w/bloody shoes after they knocked man out then kicked his head:
http://is.gd/dAeRb

[cynatnite]

1. You are very right...

I know a lot of good cops, but I truly believe that police brutality is a symptom of a larger problem in the police force at large. Maybe it's how the power of their position goes to some cops' heads. Maybe it's having so much hatred directed at them when they try to do a good job. Maybe it's a combination of factors.

I don't know, but it is a huge problem that should be addressed and the police are doing a lousy job of it.

[Onceuponalife]

3. kick & rec

[TexasObserver]

2. recommend

[MajorChode]

4. Of course not, but this is...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4421660&mesg_id=4421932

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3788447

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4463959&mesg_id=4467002

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8768752&mesg_id=8771973

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8767122&mesg_id=8771329

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8768752&mesg_id=8769862

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4463516&mesg_id=4463884

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8696399&mesg_id=8697473

Et cetera...

Et cetera...

Et cetera...

Ad infinitum...

Ad nauseam.

Cheers!

[proteus_lives]

7. They don't like being confronted with that.

They think we want to silence them because we somehow support police corruption or brutality.

They cling to that so they don't have to confront their own attitudes.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Who's 'they'? n/t

[proteus_lives]

24. Go over my thread.

It's the OP is responding to.

Or just use the google search and you'll figure it out.

[Violet_Crumble]

31. So yet again yr broadbrushing DUers. No surprises there n/t

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

15. It seems that you are objecting to the word, "pigs".

That seems to me to be a different issue than your claim of "broad brush" attacks.

In fact, what you are talking about is lack of respect for the profession.

This is a symptom of the bad relationship between the police and the population resulting largely from police misconduct,

[MajorChode]

61. Actually I just object to bigotry in general

You can call it "broad brush" or whatever else makes you feel better. Just plain old bigotry works for me. In fact, you have no clue what I am talking about. I could give a shit less what someone thinks of the profession. I'm more concerned about what they say of other people unlike themselves. People have all sorts of reasons to justify and apologizing for bigotry, but it doesn't make it any less ugly, any less ignorant, and any less smallminded. I see bigotry all the time and deal with it on a professional level. I'm pretty sure I know what it is and even a bit about why it occurs. I've just shown you a bit of it. If you think that is in any way acceptable behavior, that's where you and I are going to have to disagree.

Cheers!

[me b zola]

5. K&R

[proteus_lives]

6. Yeah, it is a problem.

But my issue with the DU broad-brush over LEOs. I have no problem talking about the bad ones.

Judging a group based upon the actions of an individual or the small sampling of individuals is a bad idea.

[flvegan]

10. I agree with you 100%.

I didn't chime in on your thread, but I agree. If we judged a group based on the actions of a selected sample, we'd hate Democrats too.

And then DU would just be lost.

Never repeat that I agreed with you 100%, considering. LOL.

[proteus_lives]

11. Don't worry.

Your reply and my response never happened. This is merely a memory or dream that may not have happened while on vacation to my cousin's college roommate.

Good example with DU, though.

[flvegan]

14. Right down the wormhole, then.

It's probably for the best.

[USArmyParatrooper]

8. Strawman. The assertion was NOT that "police brutality" is a DU meme

It was the "All teh Pigs are teh Evil" meme.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8803477

Nobody, including the guy in the OP denies that police brutality happens. It's the broad brushing and inflammatory remarks about an entire occupation that was being challenged.

[Bonobo]

12. I don't think so.

It is common for posters that think they are clever to try to "inoculate" themselves against certain counter arguments by claiming they are not doing the thing they are clearly doing, even as they are doing it.

It seems to happen often in these police threads.

For example, a poster recently wrote an OP claiming that he was not comparing attacks on police to racism against black people and proceeded to do EXACTLY that, even going so far as to post MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech to claim that police are being discriminated against.

Similarly, in the OP to which you refer, the OP may say that he is not referring to people posting about cops doing bad thing -just about people making broad brush attacks - but clearly they are defensive reactions to posts about cops brutalizing people.

[USArmyParatrooper]

21. Can you post examples of...

"but clearly they are defensive reactions to posts about cops brutalizing people."

Meaning, their focus wasn't merely on inflammatory remarks that type-cast cops?

[Bonobo]

25. Nope. That's not what my OP is about. So I won't.

It is my opinion. And in my opinion, it is obvious.

I will leave it at that.

[USArmyParatrooper]

26. In other words you can't back your assertion with examples

Got it.

[Bonobo]

29. No that is not the case. But you ask something impossible.

You essentially ask me to disprove a negative.

It is part of your commonly used strategy of trying to derail an OP from its original purpose.

As such, I am not interested in walking down your primrose path.

[USArmyParatrooper]

36. No, I'm asking you to prove a positive

You said they post "defensive reactions to posts about cops brutalizing people."

Such as?

[Joe Fields]

76. I would advise you to pay closer attention.

The assertions that you rail against are there.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

73. This. THIS! I call it "saying without saying".

:applause:

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Bullshit. I read the other OP and that's exactly what they were implying...

The only broadbrushing I saw was from the OP with yet more out-there broadbrushing about DUers. My brother's a cop, and I don't see all this supposed 'bigotry' towards cops that permeates DU, which is what the OP was insisting is the case...

[USArmyParatrooper]

19. Oh, really?

So saying things like, "99 percent of police officers make the 1 percent of good ones look bad" is NOT following that meme? How about saying cops shouldn't have tranquilizer guns because they're use them to rape women? Does that follow the meme? I'll be happy to post more examples with link. How many do you want me to post before you will admit it's an issue?

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Yes, really. Stop trying to reinvent what the OP was talking about...

And why are you taking what one or two people saying and trying to broadbrush DU by making out that it's a 'meme'??

[Bonobo]

22. Exactly. That is not a "meme".

If it is, then "meme" means nothing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

23. It's more than one or two

And numbers don't lie. Threads that show police brutality get Rec'd en mass. Threads that show police doing admirable work get bombarded with Unrecs. Unreccing police doing good work, now that's logical.

[Bonobo]

27. Here is the reason -and the thing that seems to be the hardest for you to "get".

"Threads that show police brutality get Rec'd en mass."

-This indicates the current state of anxiety, fear and distrust that exists in the general population wrt cops. You always choose to ignore this, but in fact it is highly statistically significant (a fact you seem to grasp, but them, oddly, discount)

"Threads that show police doing admirable work get bombarded with Unrecs."

-This is because they are usually posted to defend BAD cop behavior and attack those DU'ers who post cop misbehavior.

In point of fact, you are wrong though. I can find posts, recent posts, by Mr. Scorpio about good cops doing good things that garnered hundreds of recs, or at least dozens.

[USArmyParatrooper]

32. "the current state of anxiety, fear and distrust that exists in the general population"

Ummm... yeah....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx

"Please tell me how you would rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in these different fields -- very high, high, average, low, or very low?"

Police officers

Very High 17%


High 46%


Average 26%


Low 8%


Very Low: a whopping 2%

Sorry about that.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. +1

Well said. I suspect what the problem really boils down to is that the vast majority of DUers don't float around DU carrying on about how cops are heros and how we so respect them far far more than we respect other professions, and generally doing the blind adoration of authority routine that I notice some people do. Like, it'd be acceptable to them to point to a story of police brutality as long as it was balanced out by a story about how wondrous and brave cops are...

[USArmyParatrooper]

37. +1... except it was disproved by a scientific survey

Conducted by a reputable pollster. See my reply above.

[Violet_Crumble]

39. What I said wasn't disproved by anything...

Please take the time to read and address what I actually say before hitting the reply button...

[USArmyParatrooper]

43. I was responding to "+1 Well said."

The "well said" post was disproved by Gallup's poll.

As to the rest of it, utter rubbish. If I or others say we object to broad bush, inflammatory and insulting remarks toward an entire profession that's exactly what we mean. I might be easier for you to refute your made up objections, but that doesn't make them accurate.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. What I was responding to wasn't disproved at all...

And it wasn't utter rubbish. Object all you like to broadbrush and insulting remarks towards an entire profession, but do not try to pretend that many DUers do that because then yr just as bad with the broadbrushing as what you claim to be complaining about. Do you realise how absolutely ridiculous it is to try to claim that you know *why* people unrecc any thread?

[Violet_Crumble]

30. It is only a very few. And clearly you have an issue with police brutality getting attention...

Threads that show police brutality get Rec'd en mass.

And so they fucking well should. While some folk act as though we should all be humping the legs of cops, most others think they should be held accountable for the way they act. If you have a problem with that, that's yr problem, not anyone elses...

[Tsiyu]

38. This obsession with rec/unrec of threads is so sad

People aren't unrecc'ing because they dislike cops. Immediately before i read the other OP, there was a thread with support for cops and recs.

People are unrecc'ing because the other thread is crap. It attacks DUers and is a defensive post trying to divert attention from the very real problems we are having with out-of-control cops all over the US.

But I watched something happen in that thread. You know how they say RightieTighties always identify their own weakness and then accuse their adversary of that very weakness, never acknowledging their OWN weakness?

I brought up the word "defensive" in describing those who - very unsucsessfully- try to divert our attention from LEO wrongdoing. Suddenly that other OP found a new word! Suddenly the word "defensive" was part of HIS arsenal against anyone who disagreed with him.

i just thought that was funny to see in action. :)

[Bonobo]

40. You are a very sharp and observant person.

I have consistently appreciated your posts.

Just wanted to take the opportunity to say that.

[Tsiyu]

46. Thank you, Bonobo

and thank you for confronting those who want to silence anyone who brings up the topic of police brutality.

It is a very real problem we must address, and you understand and are not silenced :thumbsup:

[Violet_Crumble]

41. I agree and find it kind of pathetic...

And it really is pathetic to see people appear and try to invent reasons why others unrec threads. And it's even more pathetic to try to say that people who unrecced the other thread hate cops when I was one who unrecced it and my brother's a cop, so it's not like I hate cops or anything...

[Bonobo]

42. The truth is that some equate posting stories about cops doing bad things

with people "hating cops".

This is a huge mistake.

It is the misbehavior that is hated and by mistaking the cause for the effect, by blaming the victim rather than the victimizer, they are guilt of complicity and are, in fact, enabling bad behavior.

[Tsiyu]

47. I am so glad you joined this discussion

i know a lot of cops, too. Most are good people where I am.

But, like you, I am not going to allow my affilation with good cops to lessen my desire to expose the bad ones.

I think I'm going to bed now, but have a great night, Violet, and here's to your bro staying safe :hi:

[Fumesucker]

18. It would be much easier to take a more balanced approach to police wrongdoing..

If it were not for the fact that they almost always cover for each other when they do wrong.

Even the "good" cops keep silent for the most part about what the "bad" ones do, it's a very rare thing and usually takes amazingly egregious conduct for police to be actually be punished as severely as a non cop would be for the very same behavior.

That is what upsets people, the fact that those who are supposed to enforce the law are so often held to be above the law and immune from the punishments that the rest of us would garner if we were to commit crimes of that magnitude.

[Mariana]

50. Exactly.

Show me one time that a "good" cop arrested another cop on the spot after observing him or her breaking the law. It just never happens.

We all hear about the "good" cops who say they don't like their rotten colleagues. So, what are these "good" cops doing to get rid of the bad apples?

[Mopar151]

69. It seems that the normal laws simply do not apply. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

71. This is the correct answer. -nt

[Skip Intro]

54. Yessir. nt

[DefenseLawyer]

78. The reponse to police brutality in nearly EVERY case:

"Police are out there every day putting their lives on the line for you. Sure there are a few bad apples but you are saying ALL police are bad!"

"Uh, no I'm not. I'm just discussing officer X in _____ beating up that guy. What about that?"

"I don't know all the facts about that, but I do know you hate cops. Admit it. You hate cops. That is what is scary, not some so-called 'police brutality'. You are sick. Only a radical like you would say that all cops are out there beating people every day."

"No one said tha..."

"Cop hater!"

"I gotta go."

[conscious evolution]

9. cops need to be exposed for their crimes.

After all,the reason there are cops is to protect people from crime.Not commit them.When they abuse their authority theyreally need to have the book thrown at them.Not coddled and protected.
As far as I am concerned,any cop that commits a crime against the citizenry should be punished even more harshly like those convicted of hate crimes.

[chollybocker]

Cops policing cops.

It's like the Vatican policing the Vatican.

It's the problem.

[chollybocker]

13. dupe

[defendandprotect]

28. Training has also gotten rather anti-civil rights/Constitution . . .

not to mention decades of recruiting right wingers --

[Skip Intro]

33. It's an about as overused term as " racism."

Easy to find links that support your thesis.

Easy to find links that contradict your thesis.


Cops are not pigs, on the whole, there are brave men and women who actually do something about crime.

They're the only ones that do.

Hate them at your convenience.

I personally am thankful that they are there.

[Bonobo]

44. "My thesis"? What would that be? And why do you say I "hate them"?

What would make you think that I hate cops?

What is my "thesis"?

[Skip Intro]

48. Dude, come on. nt

[Bonobo]

51. That's what I thought. You have no answer and can only get snarky. nt

[Skip Intro]

52. Oh, you thought that, huh? What did you base that on? nt

[Bonobo]

56. I based my prediction on this part of your post to me:

"Hate them at your convenience."

This was the introduction of a strawman. It was a pretty good signal that you were already proceeding into the realm of your own imagination -thus you had little of substance to say.

[Skip Intro]

59. Some DUers want to discuss, some DUers want to draw pre-concieved conclusions.

Been here before man. It's all good.

[Raineyb]

77. And we all know what preconceived conclusions you've already come to.

You don't fool anyone.

[uppityperson]

67. Some DUers want to discuss, some DUers want to draw pre-concieved conclusions.

[populistdriven]

63. on the whole they cover up for each other

what does that make them?

not cops

[Heidi]

35. Recommended.

:kick:

[Tsiyu]

49. Here are a few stories

Police brutality cases on rise since 9/11

WASHINGTON — Federal prosecutors are targeting a rising number of law enforcement officers for alleged brutality, Justice Department statistics show. The heightened prosecutions come as the nation's largest police union fears that agencies are dropping standards to fill thousands of vacancies and "scrimping" on training.
Cases in which police, prison guards and other law enforcement authorities have used excessive force or other tactics to violate victims' civil rights have increased 25% (281 vs. 224) from fiscal years 2001 to 2007 over the previous seven years, the department says.

During the same period, the department says it won 53% more convictions (391 vs. 256). Some cases result in multiple convictions.

Federal records show the vast majority of police brutality cases referred by investigators are not prosecuted.

more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-17-copmisconduct_n.htm



Police brutality problem goes beyond Oakland

snip

In fact, in terms of unjustified shootings, police misconduct and use of excessive force, the Oakland Police Department is not even in the Department of Justice's top five. (Brooklyn; Milwaukee; Jackson, Miss.; Chicago; and Cleveland were.)

(Read about other Oakland police shootings from Color of Change.)

“Just because there is attention being focused in one area, does not mean other areas are any better,” said Khalid Shah, president of Los Angeles-based non-profit Stop the Violence Increase the Peace Foundation.

Nationally, the U.S. Department of Justice has reported an alarming increase in police brutality claims since 9/11. The FBI in 2007 listed police misconduct as one of its highest civil rights priorities.

more: http://www.theloop21.com/news/police-brutality-problem-goes-beyond-oakland


Maybe I won't go to bed....just yet...

[JoeyT]

53. Oh noes, I hope no one broadbrushes police with all those examples!

Hey, how often do police arrest one another for brutality, assualt, DUI, and murder?
Now how often do they cover up for one another?
I sure hope I didn't broad brush anyone.

[Skip Intro]

55. OMG. After reading this, I HATE COPS. I'll just call Bonobo next time I'm in trouble.

Stranger forcing his/her way into your/my house? Bonobo is on call. Yay, no more crime!

[Bonobo]

57. And I'll call Skip Intro when I want a clown to perform at my kid's birthday party.

He's so damned easy to laugh at.

[Skip Intro]

58. Nice, buddy. nt

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

79. clown is as clown does, buddy

and your reduction to absurdity was just that: clownish.

[Skip Intro]

60. Yes it is. Anyone can google what they like and post links.

It's really kind of lame, when you think about it.

[bobburgster]

64. Holy shit!

I have known the "problematic cop" (see definition of asshole) has dramatically increased, but what you posted just from the last 3 days is rather scary.

[ThomCat]

70. It's even worse than that OP makes it seem.

You could get hear about that many incidents just here in NYC alone in 3 days if you combed the police blotters and know the EMTs who work the emergency rooms.

I'm sure that's probably true in other major cities too. So the true number of incidents nationally in a 3 day period had to be mind-boggling.

[JonLP24]

65. The Phoenix cop suing the Gilbert cop is an unusual story

I will say it is probably not a great example of police brutality. The Gilbert cop was over twice the legal limit and was recorded using threatening language including a death threat. I haven't seen video to see if the Taser was excessive in regards to the situation--just the audio tape.

However I agree with your point and there are cases out here in the Valley of the Sun of police brutality so it doesn't negate your point. Just didn't feel that story was a great example.

[Liberal_in_LA]

66. K&R

[ismnotwasm]

68. Fine

You live in my neighborhood, from time to time, you call the cops. Yes some are assholes, but they've been there when I needed them. I can participate in bashing a police state mentality, but not in a all cops are fuckerheads free for all.

Listen; there are assholes everywhere and they *are* out to get you and they will take your shit. (I used to be, many years ago, just that type of asshole. That's when I hated cops the most)

People will drive drunk and they will kill your kid doing it. They will run scams on old ladies. They'll poison your dog, they'll dent your car in the parking lot--whatever, whatever assholes do, they do and I personally haven't noticed a sudden abundance of goodwill and courtesy in this country.

Unless I feel like sitting on a porch with a shotgun, I'd rather a police force, a well trained and well disciplined police force. Cops should be held to a high ethical standard? You bet. Get rid of shady, racist and brutal cops? Immediately.

But like I said. You live in my neighbored, from time to time you're goddam grateful for them. I think that's what some of us are trying to say. Sometimes you're just grateful.

(As an aside, I learned to hate cops at my Daddy's knee--literally. He saw a lot of police corruption in his wilder days in the '60's where it was pretty blatent in areas. Of course the fact they'd toss in jail from time to time might have had something to do with it. Anyway, he's a crazy old rightwing redneck and he still hates and fears cops)

[mokawanis]

72. K + R n/t

[CLANG]

74. Still a vast majority are good - there will be bad apples

[asdjrocky]

75. Until they stop covering for each other...

the beatings will continue.

That is the problem.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

80. But if I'm a good sycophant and lick their boots they won't beat me, right?

Seems to be the attitude around these parts.....