The reason we have 12 million illegal immigrants - there is no legal path to immigration

[Xipe Totec]

These are the only paths to legal citizenship in this country:

1.- Birth - Your mother's water broke on US soil.

1.- Nepotism - A US relative sponsors you.

2.- Prostitution - Marry a US citizen, get fucked for five years.

3.- Indentured servitude - Work as a skilled professional for a Megacorp that will sponsor you as a serf.

There are 12 million illegal immigrants in this country because they have no path to legal residence, let alone citizenship.


If you don't believe me, check the official rule book:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis

[salvorhardin]

1. Reason Magazine actually produced an infographic that shows this quite clearly

http://img3.visualizeus.com/thumbs/10/06/02/citizenship,government,immigration,infographic,policy,us-2e8e48364f85dc896a14c96f63149f3e_h.jpg

Go here for full size graphic: http://j.mp/d0COKX

[riderinthestorm]

3. That is a most excellent graphic. Mind if I use it?

I've been having at it on some of the immigration threads with almost no success. Perhaps a nifty color cartoon might work?!

:banghead:

[salvorhardin]

4. Not at all

It isn't mine. The graphic itself gives full credits. The fun thing is that it screws with people's heads. They think you're going to pull out some ultra-lefty pinko-communist source. Reason is a Libertarian magazine (although not necessarily the same as Ron and Rand Paul Libertarian). ;-)

[XemaSab]

42. That is a righteous graph

:patriot:

[uppityperson]

2. Isn't there a "join the military" option too? Not saying it is good.

[mopinko]

19. i think a lot of those are posthumous.

not guaranteed at all.

[mopinko]

20. i think a lot of those are posthumous.

not guaranteed at all.

[Obamanaut]

60. Here's a few

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x15396

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Yes.

[Turborama]

27. You can only do that if you already have *residency* via the methods mentioned in the OP n/t

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Great argument!

You really proved your point well!!

LOL

[Xipe Totec]

11. Educamate me, oh master of debate! nt

[FreakinDJ]

57. I know High School drop outs who can read and understand that

and LEGALLY receive their citizenship and English is a second language for them

What is your problem

[niceypoo]

62. Right up there with, 'Get a brain morans'

...minus the spelling errors

[theoldman]

6. The easiest way I know to immigrate and get your citizenship is to go to school

It helps if you enroll for a masters degree. Better yet, if you are from India, get your doctors degree. Each country is alloted a certain number of immigrants. Most European countries never use their quota.

[Xipe Totec]

13. Great idea! I wonder if there are scholarships for lettuce pickers nt

[LostinVA]

50. +1

[obxhead]

7. exactly

:applause:

[Pavulon]

8. No its just a pain in the balls..

having a few friends and coworkers who stayed in their home country while waiting for the slow ass government..

[EFerrari]

9. You have a strong point but there's more.

The reason we have millions of illegal immigrants is because our government treats those countries like their litter box.

[KamaAina]

74. So do our corporations

as if there were any difference. :eyes:

[jody]

12. Excellent point but do you propose that we accept all who wish to become legal immigrants? If not,

how do you propose to set a limit?

[Xipe Totec]

14. They are here anyway

If we had allowed them here legally, they would be legal immigrants.

I propose we allow those who want to come here legally, to come here legally.

[jody]

16. I stated my question poorly. Do you wish to admit all, i.e. 100%, who wish to become US citizens?

[Xipe Totec]

48. Why not

How hard was it for you to become a US citizen? I'd venture to say, not hard at all.

[Statistical]

61. So if 1.7 billion people around the world with minimal jobs skills want to become Amercians you are

fine with that.

You haven't considered what that would do to our support system, or our economy of more directly your personal job.

Whatever you do there is someone somewhere in the world who will do it (likely better and never complain) for $0.10 on the dollar and be happy to never get a raise.

The US simply can't accommodate everyone who wants to come to the US. There are billions of people who would gladly leave everything behind and come here if given the chance.

[niceypoo]

63. "there are billions of people who would gladly leave everything behind and come here"

Im curious where you get this 'billions' number...

[Statistical]

67. You really think a peasant farmer in China

who makes about $2.87 a day wouldn't leave everything and come to the US. Hell most would gladly leave their entire families behind knowing they never could see them again because the money they could send home would give their children the potential for a life of something other than total poverty.

Also it isn't just a China story. Roughly 80% of the world lives on less than $100 a month. Most have no access to indoor pluming, modern healthcare, information services, telecommunication, electricity, natural gas, or hot water on top. The vast majority of those families know there is NOTHING better for their children (and likely their children's children). You honestly think they wouldn't gladly come here and work in a factory at minimum wage? Really?

You are delusional if you think US could just open borders and let anyone and everyone who wants in here without utterly collapsing the economy, social safety net, and wages.

Why do you think immigration limits are put in place to begin with? We just want to fuck over other people?

[niceypoo]

75. No, I dont

Travel to the third world and see for yourself. People are happy there.

[ThomThom]

58. limits have already been set

It is the ones that go around the limits and the process that are called illegal.
If we did like most counties and stopped companies from hiring these undocumented people then we would have room to accept more though the system of Immigration and Naturalization.
We have an employer not a worker problem.

[jody]

68. "limits have already been set" but those limits or laws are not enforced. That's the issue Obama is

currently trying to deal with.

[ThomThom]

59. deleted dupe

system glitch

[sendero]

15. A country ....

... has no obligation to provide a legal path of immigration for ANYBODY.

[Telly Savalas]

33. Yes. Tell those huddled masses where to stick it.

[WinkyDink]

56. A statue is not exactly federal policy.

[Go2Peace]

17. Wikipedia - FACTS are your friend. Mexico leads the list of legal immigrants

I am married to an immigrant and am involved in an immigrant community. We offer immigration paths the same as other countries. Now they need improvement, but the claim of the OP is misleading. Our immigration paths are very similar to the paths in other industrial countries.

Legal immigration is quite high for our population and has been GROWING. Mexico currently makes up the highest number of legal immigrants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

"A record 1,046,539 persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading countries of birth of the new citizens were Mexico, India and the Philippines."

"Legal immigration to the U.S. increased from 250,000 in the 1930s, 2.5 million in the 1950s, 4.5 million in the 1970s, and 7.3 million in the 1980s to about 10 million in the 1990s"

In 2006, a total of 1,266,264 immigrants became legal permanent residents of the United States, up from 601,516 in 1987, 849,807 in 2000, and 1,122,373 in 2005.<62> The top twelve migrant-sending countries in 2006, by country of birth, were Mexico (173,753), People's Republic of China (87,345), Philippines (74,607), India (61,369), Cuba (45,614), Colombia (43,151), Dominican Republic (38,069), El Salvador (31,783), Vietnam (30,695), Jamaica (24,976), South Korea (24,386), Guatemala (24,146), other countries - 606,370

[malletgirl02]

23. Other Countries

I heard that the US is actually one of the easier countries to get citizenship. I heard in France it is really hard for an immigrant to get full citizenship.

[Xipe Totec]

51. You heard wrong nt

[Xipe Totec]

45. Non-sequitur

The question is not how many, but how to.

Is there are path to legal immigration for a lettuce picker? Or, do you have to get an advanced degree to work in the fields?

I already mentioned the ways I know to become a citizen:

1.- Accident
2.- Nepotism
3.- Prostitution
4.- Indentured servitude.

Do you have another path?

[MajorChode]

65. It's not rocket surgery

Step 1.
Apply and get accepted for a green card

Step 2.
After 5 years of legal residence, apply for naturalization.

It's the very first bullet on the link you provided.

[cali]

69. prostitution? indentured servitude?

[kiva]

18. No, the reason is because we share a border with a country

that is politically unstable, that makes no attempt to meet the needs of its own citizens and simply passes the responsibility on to the U.S. to support their own people.

In case you haven't noticed, our immigration policy is quite liberal compared to many other countries; unless, of course, you simply want open borders, in which case yes, our rules are restrictive.

[skepticscott]

22. If you have no response to #17

then might I suggest you retract your OP and slink away? And before you go, explain why having no path to legal immigration (even if that were the case) would entitle someone to enter this country in violation of our laws, and why we should care to extend citizenship to someone who failed to respect those laws right from the start?

[Xipe Totec]

52. Done.

As for retracting it, retract what? Point out the error of fact.

[skepticscott]

73. The error of fact

was your statement that "There are 12 million illegal immigrants in this country because they have no path to legal residence, let alone citizenship", when in fact, over a million (legal) resident immigrants a year are becoming naturalized citizens.

[Motown_Johnny]

24. You shouldn't provide links to sites that disprove your post

follow your link and then check out the "other ways to get a green card" portion.


I'm not saying it is easy but other paths do exist.


It would be easier to prove the statement "The reason there are almost no ways to legal citizenship for immigrants is because we have so many illegal immigrants here already."


Of course that statement is inaccurate also, but still easier to defend than yours.

[scheming daemons]

Yet somehow my grandparents LEGALLY migrated here...without following any of those paths

...

[Turborama]

30. How and when? n/t

[scheming daemons]

31. Ellis Island... many years ago n/t

[uppityperson]

32. Inventing a time machine would work also, true. OP left that out

[Turborama]

35. Maybe they meant we should reopen Ellis Island?

:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

37. what's your point? what your grandparents did many years ago has nothing to do with the situation

today.

[emilyg]

25. BS. In my city we have lots of

legal immigrants from India, Mexico, etc.

[Xipe Totec]

46. And they got here how?

Do you have another way to become a US citizen other than the one's I listed?

[emilyg]

70. The same way I got here. Applied

for a visa and waited.

[Ozymanithrax]

26. My wife came here on a student viza, then after graduation, applied...

for citizenship.

So there is another way.

Which means your list is wrong.

[Xipe Totec]

44. Show me the way

That's all I'm asking.

[Ozymanithrax]

64. In the comment you answered.

She came, she applied, she became a citizen.

[thelordofhell]

28. The reason we have 12 million illegal immigrants

Is because companies want cheap labor to inflate their profits.

[Berserker]

39. The reason we

have shop lifters is we have products on the shelves.

[Berserker]

40. Saying 12 million illegal immigrants

is like BP telling me the stupid ass numbers they come up with for gallons spilled. How many illegal immigrants really are here? You don't know and I have heard that stupid fucking number for years.

[Turborama]

29. You left out being super rich n/t

[Berserker]

41. And I collect sports

memorabilia.

[Xipe Totec]

47. You are right!

The doors are wide open for the top 1%

[newtothegame]

34. Why does there need to be? Reading DU headlines, there doesn't seem to be any reason to come. nt

[EFerrari]

36. And everyone who can has been going in the other direction since about 2006 or so.

[cali]

49. huh? Are you saying that there's some huge

exodus of U.S. citizens who have been illegally immigrating to other countries? Evidence, please.

[SunnySong]

38. No because ounlike the millions of legal immigrants they choose the "easier criminal route"

Oh by the way if we waved the wand and made a illegal immigrants legal you do realise there would be another 12 million illegal immigrants to take there place in a few years time.

[Xipe Totec]

43. They chose the only route

There is no legal route to immigration.

[skepticscott]

53. They have a word

for repeating the same thing over and over, even after it's been demonstrated to be categorically wrong.

:crazy:

[Xipe Totec]

54. Reflect much? nt

[MajorChode]

66. Doesn't it start with...'Ignorance can be taught....'?

[emilyg]

71. This legal immigrant says BS.

[MajorChode]

72. It's not entirely their fault

The reason immigrants come illegally is because there is employment opportunities for them. Even if you buy into the BS GOP notion that there are jobs "Americans won't do", employers can still sponsor immigrants so they can get their green card and enter the country legally. They don't because it's cheaper and easier to just hire illegal immigrants and the enforcement on employers is non-existent.

[SmileyRose]

55. Bullshit

the reason we have 12 million illegal immigrants in this country is because it's so easy for employers to underpay and abuse illegals rather than pay and treat American workers with respect.

[Greyhound]

76. We have 12 million because we have governments that will not enforce the laws.

Every state as well as the Feds have laws against hiring "undocumented workers", but enforcing those laws would mean being mean to businesses and we can't have that.

Kill a couple of real estate development and agricultural corporations, put a few executives in jail for 10 years, and you'll see just how fast the incentives dry up.

[LostInAnomie]

77. Not even close.

If Mexico were an economically prosperous country with good paying jobs and low unemployment, do you think we would have 12 million illegal immigrants?

The reason we have so many illegal immigrants is because we have unscrupulous businessmen looking to exploit their cheap labor and undercut American workers. We also have a government that is unwilling to enforce our labor laws. Jail a few businessmen and watch that 12 million number shrink dramatically.