I'm certainly not a a conspiracy nut nor am I lacking faith in the idea of the

[WCGreen]

United States that transcends partisan, regional and race tensions that sporadically rise up to cause concern.

But all you really have to do is take a look around the world and wonder if the kind of sectarian, political or religious violence that sprouts up around the globe can't happen here.

The Middle East is awash in religious factions that are willing to disrupt their civil society in order to purify the state and make it into a country that is run by gods true word.

What is happening in Iraq is people pushing hard for power to consolidate their positions in order to make a grab for power in the secular world. The Sunni and Shi'ite are going to fight until one can dominate the other in such a way as to crush dissent. In order to do this, they have to reinstate a centralized thugocracy just like Saddam had.

Could you imagine if the say the Catholic in a certain area dominated the secular world but decided to make their religion the true Christian Sect in say Philedelphia....

Look at the violence popping up here and there all over the former Soviet Union. All of their violence seems to revolve around the quest for power by an ethnic or religious group that feels they are the true heirs to the power that was swept aside by first the Russians and then consolidated by the Soviets.

Why this kind of violence hasn't caught hold in the US is, I believe, because all of us whether we be Jew or Christian, Democrat or Republican, Ohioan or Michiganer all believe in the idea of the United States.

But the right now is doing it's best to unravel that social contract that keeps us all together by fomenting the differences between the regions, the party's, the regions, the classes.

How much further can the hard right push the pawns who truly believe that Democrats are evil or that Jews do not belong in the United States or that States that allow abortion are evil before there is a disconnect between the sectarian creed and the belief in the idea of America.

This talk of "taking back America" is dangerous. What makes that kind of talk here different from say what happened to the Uzbekie people who were slaughtered in Kyrgyzstan because they didn't belong there in there.

I don't know about you but I am growing more concerned about the stability of the United States as a political viable transcontinental entity.

The continued economic crisis, the slogging wars in the middle east, the unraveling of social contact between the winners and losers of our elections all point to a serious tipping point.

What bothers me is that there are so many people that believe we are immune to this type of political violence because of our rule of law. And that does go along way to placate some of my wildest fears. But if this unraveling of the social contract continues, how long before sectarian or regional or ideological violence breaks out here.

You can dismiss me as a ranting fool but I lived through the worst of the 60's and the disintegration of the middle class that started hard downward in the late 70's and people, this time just feels different.

When a large portion of the population believes that the political leadership is illegitimate, we are treading on thin ice...

[leftstreet]

1. We have no resources for the Predator Class to fight over

Most of the global sectarian, political, and religious violence you describe is attributed to the grabbing of vast resources the Ruling Elite wish to 'mine.' Oil, labor, mineral wealth, etc. Conflict is created and/or exploited to profit a few.

We basically have nothing left to exploit. Even when they're done returning us to a third world labor pool, we're still a tiny population.

The only real point in keeping US at odds is to prevent unrest against THEM.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. You may have your tinfoil hat on too tightly...

And then again, you may not.

Take America back, indeed. To what? The time of stay at home moms, and working dads, white picket fences and all that? Along with segregation, back-alley abortions, and the rest of the horrors we have managed to get away from?

I agree that the right is trying to destabilize the situation. But why? Maybe they think they will prevail? I don't know...Getting power is a seductive thing.

We do have a strong rule of law tradition, but I wonder just how strong it will ultimately prove to be.

I have no answers.

Recommended for clear thinking.

[grasswire]

3. I have a book that might lend perspective

It's a great big coffee table book showing the significant NY Times front pages for nearly a century. It shows so much global and domestic strife and crazy happenings and downright evil that humans and Americans specifically have survived -- and even forgotten about. I wonder how many people today remember that U.S. Congresscritters were gunned down in the Capitol building? It happened. Not many people know about General Smedley Butler foiling the coup attempt against FDR.

I honestly don't know if it's different now. There has always been factionalism, discrimination, hatred, propaganda, repression, violence. Sadly.

Sadly.

[WCGreen]

4. I know my history pretty well and I think these incidents weren't being as

openly embraced by one party as they are now.

That adds a little more legitamcy to those who are on the edge.

[nenagh]

5. Very timely comment, WCGreen.....

Because on the calm streets of Toronto, preparations for G20 security , continue as streets are 'fenced' off, and police monitor the perimeters..

You can follow it all online TorontoStar , because the comments are so amusing..

Currently a huge bronze elephant and her babies are being moved to a safer location.

Torontonians are not used to such visible fencing/police/etc.. but a bank in Ottawa was firebombed a few weeks ago and some commentators are getting edgy...

However, WCGreen, we are going to get a right wing 'FoxNewsNorth' channel...So will Canadians start converting to more right wing thought? If the same techniques of fear and anger are used, many people are suggestible...

Meanwhile, re the USA, I have been lingering on some sites recently that are unlike DU, and some references to Obama are pretty devastating..

Does it seem that Fox etc has to tune up the rhetoric to get their message thru after years of agiprop?

But the TeaPeople now have the pleasure of listening to core beliefs of their candidates and it's not pretty.

So I have hope :) Still, while Obama is in the White House, I'm pleased that there is internet etc monitoring of threats.

[Odin2005]

6. I fear that WHEN the double dip downturn happens the wheels are gonna come off the wagon.

I expect terrorism, Christo-Fascist extremism, and ethnic violence.

[DirkGently]

7. Agree the Right is playing with fire

Sharron Angle's chirping references to "Second Amendment remedies" is the latest looney-baiting tactic in line with Glenn Beck's "What if (people started shooting federal officers as a form of tax protest)" scenario special, and the "We came unarmed ... this time" Tea Party threats.

Sure, the most visible players are not giving full-throated support to violent measures, but it's become their new favorite toy. And we know from the last time a Democrat was in the White House that eventually, someone on the fringes will take them at their word and blow something up. In the meantime we've had the Tiller assassination and the attack at the Holocaust Museum, as well as other scattered violence like the shooting spree at the Unitarian Church inspired by the "worst Liberals" list.

One thing I think it is valid to suggest is that the American rightwing now considers threats of violence its special perogative. Imagine the furor if liberal pundits and leaders began hinting darkly at guns, revolution and extra-legal "remedies."

Worse, those in the public eye are well aware that the loonies will respond literally to their baiting, and maybe take a shot a someone. It's gone beyond irresponsible hyperbole in my opinion. None can now claim that they're unaware this kind of talk can lead to real violence. And their reaction when it actually does happen ranges from cool indifference to a smirking approval, like Congressman Steve King, who seemed to blame the IRS for the suicide attack in February.

They're high on the idea of intimidation and their own sense of entitlement -- as noted, the "take our country back" meme suggests a "by any means necessary" component. These public figures need to be, at the very least, put on the spot with pointed questions as to exactly what their dark hints like Angle's "Second Amendment remedies" are supposed to mean.

What exactly do the right to bear arms and removing Harry Reid from office have to do with one another, Ms. Angle?

[WCGreen]

8. As someone pointed out in an other repsonse...

There has been violence of a political nature in the country forever.

But most of that was directed at political leaders or by the state against unions or because of race. I know there are countless other examples but what concerns me most is when say a band of armed Republicans start attacking an area because it is a Democratic strongholds.

In other swords, citizen vs. citizen just because they belong to another party or another religion.

What will we do after the next sucessful muslin propelled terrorist attack kills people in the heartland? Say in Iowa or Kansas.

We understand the lone kook and we also understand violence that is motivated by greed, lust or public shame. But I do not think we are ready to accept blatant political violence which is why the attack at the Unitarian Church was so awful.

This oath Keeper thing is also really potentially disturbing because if say political violence breaks out and the police are asked to quell the outburst. What happens if the Oath Keepers in that particular department believe that the perpetrators of that violence are just exercising their rights to retaliate against a government they no longer believe is legitimate?

I'm an not predicting that this will happen I am merely looking around the world and seeing all the examples of political and ethnic violence and wonder why we think it can't happen here.