LISTEN UP, PLEASE: It's NOT a g*damned "LEAK," or a "SPILL," or an "ACCIDENT."

[Barrymores Ghost]

It is not "The Gulf" ANYTHING.

It's an underwater WILD WELL. It is a subsurface GUSHER, probably blowing close to 100,000 barrels of oil each day. And it's not going to be stopped anytime soon, if ever, for that matter.

Let's not allow politicians, corporate sociopaths or their apologists to frame the language of what will doubtless amount to the worst man-caused environmental disaster in world history. The degree of damage done to our Earth as a result of pure, distilled, corporate greed will never be fully known in our lifetimes or our children's or grandchildren's.

The Deepwater Horizon Environmental Holocaust should heretofore be referred to as the BP CRIMINAL OIL CATASTROPHE, an act of HOMICIDE, perpetrated for profit and with a conscious, reckless disregard for life, livelihoods or the health of our land and sea.

It's about time we heard, and got used to speaking the truth.

[Uzybone]

1. good luck fitting that in a sound bite

[Barrymores Ghost]

3. Pick any phrase. Use it.

I recognize that the average literate American's attention span is 8 seconds. Half that if you're a Republican and less if you're a Tea-Bagger. But it bears mentioning, regardless, wouldn't you agree?

[glitch]

15. I go with criminally negligent homicide/ecocide/geocide (depends who I am talking to). nt

[Barrymores Ghost]

21. The first certainly applies...

...to the eleven rig workers whose bodies will never be found:

Jason Anderson
Aaron Dale Burkeen
Donald Clark
Stephen Curtis
Roy Wyatt Kemp
Karl Kleppinger
Gordon Jones
Blair Manuel
Dewey Revette
Shane Roshto
Adam Weise

The last two, obviously pertain to the water, land and gawd knows how many species of flora and fauna that have been, or will soon be exterminated by BP's willfull negligence.

Question: By what definition or designation do we acknowledge the death of generations of a family livelihood, or of entire cultures laid to waste?

[glitch]

51. I include humans and their culture, including economies, within eco.

Even the deaths of the workers. I included homicide for those who separate humans from their environment, but I consider those workers deaths the beginning and part of the whole ecocide. There will be many many more human deaths from the toxins in the oil and corexit, they will just take longer. And I included geocide because this could be an ELE (extinction level event), we don't know yet.

In my view all of your post, the humans and their culture and economies, the plants and animals of the gulf, it's marshlands and tributaries, the toxic rain that will be dropped on the gulf, southern, midwestern and eastern states, is covered by ecocide, not just the plants and animals.

And ecocide should be considered as egregious as war crimes.

[fl_dem]

55. LOL! Agree. n/t

[JackRiddler]

54. Because sound bites are all that matter?

"Media-driven zombies" is a pretty good sound bite!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. Isn't there someone out there that has a fix?

[Barrymores Ghost]

7. Read this:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6593/648967

[Hissyspit]

13. That poster is questionable, BG.

He may very well be right, but read what RoyGBiv posted a few days ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8549020&mesg_id=8550003

[Barrymores Ghost]

17. Appreciate the heads-up...

...I know less than jack shit about all of this, but was steered toward dougr's post on TOD via Huffington Post. Didn't do any deep background on the poster, and haven't had the time since I first saw it yesterday to read the follow-up from others on the site.

Thanks again....I'll a little more judicious in dispensing my panic on others in the future.;-)

[Hissyspit]

18. Yeah, pretty much the same happened to me.

The guy may be right, though. Plenty of people say that is just silt come up for the ROV on the video. It's hard to say. There is plenty of reason for concern regardless of the poster.

[Barrymores Ghost]

41. Awfully brown-tinged silt, if you ask me...

...but maybe that's just my panic settling in.

[ZeitGuy]

59. I think you're right, actually.

It looks like wispy oil plumes coming from cracks in the ocean floor. This could be even more cataclysmic than anyone has imagined.

[gateley]

4. Somebody used "manmade ecological disaster". That's what I'm going to use from

now on, especially since the Republicans again referred to it as a natural disaster.

[Barrymores Ghost]

5. "Ecological genocide" is even more apropos. n/t

[inna]

10. I was going to sugest "ecocide", but "Ecological genocide" is even better.

K&R, this needs to be said and repeated.

[Barrymores Ghost]

19. Thanks. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

6. It's the LARGEST WILDLIFE KILL this country has experienced. nt

[Barrymores Ghost]

29. An entire food chain, wiped out. n/t

[nashville_brook]

8. the video has completely changed in character -- now it's a wild, rushing curtain of oil and gas.

[Barrymores Ghost]

12. Worse...

...are the wispy clouds of oil seeping up from cracks in the ocean floor. There is greater damage beneath the surface, which can neither be patched nor capped nor plugged up.

[pitohui]

9. it's an accident

"leak" or "spill" don't capture the enormity of something that is just blowing like a volcano -- ever tried to cap a volcano -- but it was assuredly an accident

their own men died first, there is no way in hell they ever wanted this to happen

this is not like exxon where they refused to take any responsibility, they are really trying to fix this thing, the technical difficulties are just overwhelming

[Barrymores Ghost]

11. I respectfully disagree.

An "accident" is a little kid crapping his pants because he couldn't get to the johnny in time.

An "accident" is bumping my glass of wine while reaching for another dinner roll and ruining my wife's favorite lace table cloth.

And "accident" is not something that results from the deliberate and calculated cutting of all safety corners and ignoring preventative measures and the willful over-reaching on the part of a corporation beyond all means to mitigate unwanted outcomes, for the pure purpose of making as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, before moving on to exploit another resource.

While I certainly do not posit that it was BP's intention to kill the Gulf of Mexico, I will certainly argue that experts have argued the inevitability of a catastrophe like Deepwater Horizon long before BP CHOSE to ignore regulations and warnings and its own technological limitations, just so it could line the pockets of its executives and shareholders.

BP has a long and illustrious CRIMINAL history, literally. Sociopaths don't have "accidents." They cause damage and destruction because they feel no empathy for others or concern for anything that doesn't align with their self-interests.

I'm sure you can appreciate the distinction.

[pitohui]

22. well i live here and i don't see bp as "sociopaths"

they really screwed up and now they are doing everything possible they can do to fix this

we already know what would happen if exxon mobile had the same accident -- and please be aware that ALL of us (maybe even you) have cut corners from time to time

tomorrow i will drive to get new tires instead of being towed, do you think i'm a criminal if by some horrid chance my tire blows out on the very short drive there and i run over someone, if you do, then you have never driven a car and don't understand the reality of the world as it is

anyone can fuck up, bp is trying to make it right, exxon wouldn't try to make it right, they'd try to blame it on some random alcoholic

do you truly not understand that anyone, even the best and most well meaning among us, can fuck up?

look i'm losing more than you in this and have more right to be angry but i'm trying to be fair & to treat them as i would wish to be treated

this isn't criminal, it's a fuck up and they're TRYING to recompense us, they're not trying to talk their way out of it as most companies would do

i was among the dolphins at grand terre 3 days before the explosion, and trust me, i know exactly what we're losing and who is hurt, while most of you are just reading it on the news...just the same, it is an accident, they made a terrible error to save money, and they are willing to pay for it

i don't know what else we can ask of them, they are TRYING

we are all hurting, remember, they were the first to lose 11 men

[Barrymores Ghost]

25. Wow. How's that Kool-Aid taste?

Have you lost sight of the fact that BP has lied from the onset of this disaster through this very moment? How do you excuse every indictment that's been laid out against them, in terms of precautions ignored and regulations violated? Do have have any frickin' idea of what is happening at a mile (and deeper) beneath the Gulf of Mexico?

Do you even have an inkling of what it would take, in terms of incriminating evidence, for the 4th largest corporation on the FUCKING PLANET to capitulate and agree to a $20B compensatory fund with no cap?

In short: are you fucking serious?

[Barrymores Ghost]

33. P.S.: You live "where" exactly?

Your reasons for hiding your profile are your own. I thank you for donating to DU. But you don't reap any additional legitimacy by virtue of your self-laudatory remarks about your geographic intimacy with the problem, just because you say so.

[ZeitGuy]

52. B.S. Hayward sees this an another opportunity to drill even more at the sight.

What do you think BP's going to do with the oil from the relief wells?

Give it all away to Shell or Exxon? Maybe donate it to nuns and orphans?

[Hissyspit]

14. Plenty of indicators BP and TransOcean ignored the dangers and the whistleblowers.

We can get into nit-picking about the word "accident," but in my opinion it lets those responsible off the hook too much.

[Barrymores Ghost]

16. Absolutely agree, Hissyspit...

The word implies a lack of awareness of potentiality on the part of the responsible party.

That is not the case with BP. They knew the risks, but they chose to gamble anyway; now, they and their GOP protectors are incredulous that they don't get to walk away from the table and not have to settle up with the house.

[inna]

20. no, it wasn't an "accident". it was bound to happen, sooner or later, because of

criminal negligence and disregard for safety in the name of cost cutting.

pure blind greed.

means of production gone mad in their ever-increasing demand for profits.


same thing that happened on Wall street. NOT an accident.

[pitohui]

24. oh ffs by that measure no car accident is an accident

after all by driving a car you accept that a certain percent of people are gonna be killed, it's just inevitable

c'mon

the hysteria is not helping, the yelling is not helping

"means of production gone mad"? it was actually an exploration well but don't let facts get in your way or anything like that

look, we want to drill, we want to help this nation be more energy secure, the yelling and screaming and "it had to happen" is not helpful

let's look at ways it didn't have to happen -- such as, in future, let's drill a relief well alongside, and get on with the future -- people in louisiana want to work and they want to be productive, and all this negativity is NOT helping us

[Barrymores Ghost]

32. How the F*** does the distinction between a "production" and an "exploratory" well change anything?

The Gulf of Mexico is effectively DEAD.

We will NEVER achieve energy independence from oil drilling, because every barrel produced goes on the WORLD OIL MARKET...and the U.S. sits, at best, on 3% of the oil reserves, while consuming nearly 25% of the ENTIRE PLANET's oil needs.

Are you shilling for the oil barons?

"Get on with the future?" Where do you live? Wonka-Land?

[inna]

37. zzzzzzz nm

[arikara]

64. Then to use your car analogy

if I knew the tie rod ends on my beater were gone and I used a twist tie to fix them, drove 100 miles an hour down the freeway then wiped out and taking a family filled car with me killing all 5... should that not be considered criminal?

[ZeitGuy]

65. I don't believe pitohui is taking any more calls.

:shrug:

[anarch]

23. true, but the same can be said when a drunk driver kills someone

Personally I don't care what we call it, that's up to the future. I guess The Black Death is already taken...and this one is most definitely man made. I dunno...it sure feels like the end of something.

[pitohui]

26. when a drunk driver kills someone it's an accident but he still pays

bp is doing the same, it's an accident, they NEVER wanted this, but they're stepping up and they're paying

what more do you want? i don't see the use of crucifying people because you don't like their british accent or they're not well spoken...

bp is not holding back the money, this is the opposite of exxon valdez

[Barrymores Ghost]

27. My best man at my wedding was British...

...and I have no problem with accents. You need to snap out of whatever (name the poison)-induced stupor you're in right now and face reality.

Right now, in the Gulf of Mexico, on account of BP's willful negligence and profit margin obsession (not a drunk ship captain), there is an Exxon Valdez happening every five fucking days -- just in case you missed the memo.

And there is nothing in place that will stop it.

[Barrymores Ghost]

28. P.S. The "drunk driver" at BP has so far killed eleven human beings...

...wiped out immeasurable sea life, rendered an entire oceanic body of water dead, and continues to obstruct investigations into its culpability in the crime as well as the damage it has wrought.

Thanks for playing "Really BAD Fucking Analogy."

FAIL.

[anarch]

30. I see your point, but it's still criminal

that's all I meant. And that you can't bring back the dead.

[Barrymores Ghost]

31. The "point" was shite. n/t

[earth mom]

34. Bullshit. BP is getting away with murder! Money CAN NOT fix this!

I can't believe you would defend this shit for whatever damn reason you are doing it, I really can't! :puke:

Oh, and btw, my mom was killed by a drunk driver and the woman who killed her got a $1000 fine and probation because it was a hit and run and she hid out for 8 hours before she turned herself in! Nothing could be done even though there were eye witnesses who saw her partying it up right before she killed my mom. As far as I'm concerned that low life scum got a slap on the hand for killing my mom and that is EXACTLY what those fuckers at BP are getting-a slap on the hand! :grr:

[Barrymores Ghost]

40. My deepest and most heartfelt condolences...

...for your loss. So much more immediate for you that what you have experienced from this travesty in the Gulf, but thank you, earth mom, for bringing it home.

:hug:

[earth mom]

46. Thank you for your kind words. It's been almost 30 years but it feels like yesterday.

:hug:

I think that was the beginning of my outrage at injustice, deceit and cover ups-no matter who is doing it.

I know the woman who killed my mom had to live with killing someone for the rest of her life and that is in itself a kind of prison, but if she had at the very least sent our family some kind of apology, it would have eased some of the pain. But she never did.

[Barrymores Ghost]

35. What I want...

...is Hayward and his entire smirking executive staff frog-marched in orange jumpsuits and leg irons before their adoring public, on the way to their trial on charges of criminal negligent homicide.

[rainbow4321]

36. K&R times 100

....."to frame the language of what will doubtless amount to the worst man-caused environmental disaster in world history."


Best. Post. Ever.

[earth mom]

38. Totally agree!

:cry:

[Barrymores Ghost]

39. . . .

[ZeitGuy]

63. x 200 (nt)

[Zorra]

42. Agreed. Drilling for oil offshore is insane, as evidenced by the BP disaster.

Risking the health of the planet for profit is crazy, considering that it is literally impossible to know what the consequences might be.

That oil may flow into the ocean forever for all we know.

[D23MIURG23]

43. I might be naive but I never viewed the term "oil spill" as a euphamism.

[Barrymores Ghost]

44. For what?

I think we agree...but I'm a little unclear as to what you meant.

[D23MIURG23]

68. From your statements above (as well as other opinions I've seen)

It appears that you and others believe that the term "oil spill" shouldn't be used to describe the deep water horizon disaster, either because it isn't strong enough a word, or badly characterizes the event in some way.

I don't particularly see use of the term "oil spill" as an attempt to downplay the damage though, because I think the term is in common enough usage for such disasters that most people's sense of what it means is relatively ugly, and also pretty close to what is actually going on.

The one criticism I would have for the term "spill" is that what is being "spilled" in this case is an entire oil reservoir rather than a conventional, man-made container.

[PufPuf23]

45. The Gulf Gusher is a huge and yet unknown in scope environmental

disaster that will extinct species and effect the ecology of the gulf and livelihood for generations and never be as diverse and fecund in life as long as humans dominate Earth.

I predict BP will use the NEPA process conducted by MMS as a cover in the legal aftermath.

An interesting research topic would be to do a comprehensive royalty and tax analysis of Federal (and State) returns to the Treasury.

[Barrymores Ghost]

48. I'm assuming you refer to the fact that Obama exempted BP from submitting an extensive EIS

...prior to beginning exploratory drilling in the Gulf?

Yeah, I suppose it's possible. Just one more thing to add to my list of "Shit to Really be Pissed at Obama About."

[Barrymores Ghost]

49. On second thought...

...I can't expect Obama to track every single waiver granted to industry by Alberto Salazar (who, I think, should lose his job over this), but I can't ignore the fact that BP had a long criminal history and one of the worst industrial safety records of any major corporation, and they were given a free pass to play Russian roulette with Deepwater Horizon.

[glitch]

53. Obama knew who Salazar was when he hired him. We all did.

He was hired to do exactly what he did do, continue and expand the Bush/Cheney free passes to oil and coal and shale and gas extraction industries.

Salazar's allowing the killing of wolves was a bonus, a sop to the Palins of the world.

All bids to out-rabid the right.

[ZeitGuy]

61. I think you mean

Ken Salazar. Alberto Salazar was a marathoner from the University of Oregon.

But, I get your point.

[cwydro]

47. k and R

[ZeitGuy]

50. K & R - I've been having nightmares about this for weeks

It literally makes me weep with rage to see what's been done, and to witness the smug arrogance of those responsible.

There's a special place in Hell for unconscienable bastards like Barton, Hayward, et al.

[Xenotime]

56. It's an environmental gunshot to the head.

The Gulf will eventually die because of this.

[ZeitGuy]

58. Not just the Gulf, per se...

...but also, as the OP pointed out in another sub-thread, centuries-old cultures, and countless numbers of generations-old family businesses will be lost forever.

This is what the beginning of Armageddon looks like.

[Javaman]

57. I refer to it as...

the on going crime against nature and humanity.

[tekisui]

60. It is the product of free-market capitalism.

Pure and simple. This is what we get.

[ZeitGuy]

62. The distinction being "free-market."

I'm all in favor of capitalism per se, but only if it does no harm and the playing field is kept level. The notion of industry being exempt from governnment oversight or intervention until there is a major catastrophe or financial crisis should go the way of the dinosaurs after this BP debacle.

That is, if anyone is paying attention.

[shireen]

66. y'know i just realized something

i've read about methane hydrate seeps in the Gulf. Some just sit there and accumulate like ice, looks pretty. Some bubble out. Some even have their own eco-niche of critters. So, doesn't that indicate that the area is geologically fragile, and these drillers need to be super-careful about site selection?

Now we've been hearing about oil seeping out of the sea floor too, perhaps due to that explosion that messed up the local geological area of the drill. Did these geologist know what they were doing? I'd like to know more about the science of site selections. Not heard much about all this so far, at least in the local news. Anyone know how it's done?

There are some really cool critters down there.
See 'Cafe Methane' http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/190/cafe-methane
See 'Lair of the Ice Worm' http://ocean.tamu.edu/Quarterdeck/QD5.3/macdonald.html
and here are some photos from the latter webpage:

[Richardo]

67. It should be referred to as a 'blowout'

It's a violent, extreme image, it doesn't minimize or soften, and it's technically accurate, since it's what the blowout preventer failed to prevent.