Cincinnati- can't afford stadiums for NFL and MLB teams? Cut healthcare for the poor by 45%

[underpants]

Latest stadium tax fix: cut hospital money

The Republican commissioner’s plan, provided to the Enquirer Friday, drew immediate criticism from University Hospital and at least one other commissioner.


He proposed Friday erasing a portion of the county’s property tax rollback beginning in 2012. In exchange, beginning that year he wants to reduce the indigent health care levy by 45 percent - cutting $22 million the levy funnels to University Hospital every year.

The plan raises $6 million a year needed to pay for the stadiums while being tax neutral for homeowners, he said. Commercial property owners – who now pay the indigent care levy but don’t enjoy the rollback - will see a drop in the taxes.

The hospital, now controlled by the University of Cincinnati, spent $98.9 million in 2009 on care for patients unable to pay for themselves and community health programs. That spending, far more than any other hospital in the region, does not include the Hamilton County levy funds.


The stadium problem dates to 1996 and the county’s decision to build two riverfront stadiums, then seen as a necessity to keep the teams in Cincinnati.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100604/NEWS01/6050321/

[Art_from_Ark]

1. The question is, why would anyone want the Bengals?

OK, I am being slightly facetious. But two overpriced riverfront stadiums, especially in a berg the size of Cincinnati, are just obscene. Especially if they come at the expense of the weakest members of society.

[underpants]

7. Stadiums never pay for themselves

you can even find conservatives who will say that publicly.

Basically the leagues and their owners blackmail communities.

[Art_from_Ark]

9. I can just envision this scenario

Owners/League: Build us a new stadium NOW, or you can kiss your eternal cellar-dwelling football team GOOD-BYE!

City officials: OK, OK, we'll build your stadium! Anything youwant! Just don't take away our perennially 2-and-14 team! It's our source of civic pride!

[ParkieDem]

12. That's not entirely true ...

First, let me say that I hate the fact that owners threaten municipalities with moving their teams in exchange for massive taxpayer-financed stadiums. You're right, liberals see this as a form of corporate welfare, while conservatives view it as way beyond the scope of what government should be doing.

However, many cities are wising up and participating in these projects the right way. They saw what happened in the 1990s -- when they financed many stadiums that went way over budget, and failed to produce the expected revenues to cover their expenditures.

What the City of Arlington has done with the new Cowboys stadium is a good example. When Jerry Jones approached the city about a stadium, the city said "OK, we'll pay for half -- but we're not responsible for any cost overruns, you are." At the time, the estimated cost was $650 million, with Arlington on the hook for $325 million. Ultimately, because of Jones' wild-haired ideas (e.g., the megatron) and other issues, the costs exploded to almost $1.3 billion. Arlington, however, was still only responsible for its $325 million. So now, Arlington owns a $1.3 billion stadium which it only paid $325 million for. The number of events -- and tax, parking, and other revenue that the stadium has brought in -- has been staggering. With the Super Bowl arriving next February, some analysts expect Arlington to recoup its investment in just two short years. No wonder you have both liberals and conservatives in Dallas wondering why Dallas didn't pony up the money for a stadium in Fair Park or Cedars -- areas which still desperately need redevelopment.

I'm not saying that stadium financing works in all cases-- it obviously doesn't. But the unfortunate fact is that sometimes cities are going to have to put up some cash to keep their teams. If they have to do it, they should do it Arlington's way.

[underpants]

17. Okay that is new I had missed that one

that is the exception to the rule though

Look no further than The Ballpark in Arlington and the eminent domain powers that the Texas Stadium Authority were given and the 750 acres they took for a 17 acre baseball field and the money (all his money) that W made.

Baltimore is another great example.

[Scuba]

2. Just another in a long litany of examples...

...where the wealthy want to socialize their business (and in this case, pleasure) at the expense of the poor. How do these hypocrites get away with it? Oh, yeah, they own the media.

[depakid]

3. No longer even holding up the pretence-

Let's run headlong into third world status.

The amusing thing about all of it of course is that sickness and disease (biological, economic and otherwise) eventually knock at the door of rich and poor alike.

[era veteran]

4. The Queen City is controlled by retired U-Boat Captains

It is also a heroin distribution hub.

[Hubert Flottz]

5. The Shawnee took better care of the Cincinnati area than the GOP has.

[theHandpuppet]

6. Ah yes, remember Rome?

Even as the barbarians were banging at the gates and the people were starving, the Emperor still had to put on a good show at the Coliseum.

Bread and circuses....

[doc03]

8. Why do taxpayers have to pay for NFL and MLB stadiums

in the first place? The ball teams are owned by the richest people in this country and the players get unbelievable sums of money for playing a kids game and no doubt most are Republicans and just hate socialism. Between the owners and the overpaid ballplayers I am sure they could come up with the money to pay for their own damn stadium. Is there any other business in this country where the taxpayers are expected to pay for their facilities?

[dem mba]

10. increased prestige to have a major league team in your city

increased tax revenue from sales tax on all team-related items, businesses and even entire districts flourish from increased foot traffic and customers.

[Raineyb]

13. Bullshit. Those stadiums always end up costing the taxpayers money in the

long run and they don't see much benefit for it at all. The NFL and MBA make quite a bit of money. They can afford to pay for their own damn stadiums. They need to stop sucking off the tax payers teat. No more corporate welfare!

[Johonny]

19. pretty much every analysis of them shows what you said

the main benefit is it increases the franchises value on the open market. But basically shows almost no gain for the city. Particularly if the city already has stadiums. Either way both baseball and football are multibillion dollar revenue generating sports. If they feel the stadiums are good enough they can always spend their own profits to built new ones. Why should tax payers pay for these things is beyond me?

[dem mba]

20. well I used to live in Columbus

and saw the entire creation of the "Arena District" when the Blue Jackets NHL team came to town. It certainly added many new businesses and entertainment options to a city without many in a centralized location. That in turn, makes the city more attractive for other business to move to, for students to choose Ohio State or other nearby schools, and to attract conventions and all that other BS.

Basically, it's a selling point and from what I witnessed, it worked.

[doc03]

16. Well that could be said for any business that moves into

a city. If Ford builds a factory in a city the employees make wages and have money to spend. That creates other businesses and that in turn increases foot traffic and sales tax revenue. There would be many other suppliers move into the area to service the Ford plant and that would create even more jobs and generate more tax revenue. On top of that you would be creating thousands of good paying jobs with benefits instead of a handful of overpaid ballplayers. If a city or state tried to get
the taxpayers to pay for their plant everyone would screaming socialism.

[dem mba]

22. dude

virtually every large corporation in every city, town or village gets taxpayer-subsidies to set up shop there.

The state doesn't cover all the costs of course, but they offer tangible and intangible benefits up the wahzoo. This is commonplace and happens every day. Just google around a bit and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=incentive+corporation+hq&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[doc03]

23. I know that but they don't pay for their facilities

You have teams like the Pittsburgh Pirates that are owned buy extremely rich Republicans that can well afford to pay for their own stadium. They certainly don't spend the money to field a winning team either. If you are happy paying for a stadium for some filthy rich Republican so some filthy rich ballplayers can make 30 million a year knock yourself out.

[dem mba]

24. a subsidy is a subsidy

does it really matter if it goes to pay for the land or building costs of a new Pirates stadium or if its just a tax incentive to build or keep a corporate HQ in downtown Pittsburgh?

[underpants]

18. Yep that's it-if you want to be a "major league" city you have to have a major league team

and the mayors and governors eat that stuff up

[bobbolink]

11. "drew immediate criticism from University Hospital" Where's the criticism from "progressives"?

These cuts happen because "progressives" are silent.

[Catshrink]

14. Stupid Mesa Arizona is building a new training facility and stadium for the Cubs.

They say they'll get the money from selling land the city owns and that it's a good deal - they're going to create "Wrigleyville West." Bull. Every project Mesa has undertaken like this to lure business has failed and the taxpayers are still on the hook for the tax incentives given to the developers. I think the rich baseball players and owners should foot the bill themselves since they are the ones who will benefit. They couldn't sell the land to help schools, but damn, they sure can sell it for baseball.

I was through with baseball after the strike. Slowly, very slowly, I returned to fandom. Here's another blow. Fuck you, Chicago Cubs.

[JonLP24]

15. I'm also reply to #10 here

I wouldn't expect baseball players to foot the bill for a team that will likely cut or trade him within 5 years or so.

As far as owners I agree that they should.

[Echo In Light]

21. Prioritie$